Stop Making Excuses for Fighting Games Lacking Features Challenge (IMPOSSIBLE DIFFICULTY) 

For a second I thought this was a 2 year old repost, but then I remembered this is the FGC we're talking about and it all made sense

i remember before rollback hit BBCF *everyone* was crying about how our friends wouldn't play the game with us because it didn't have rollback and all that, we *wanted* people to play with us so bad and when rollback finally hit we basically had a party. crazy that it's not just the standard tbh

The bar is on the ground and yet people are so damn eager to pull out their damn shovels. As a PC player I have been wanting not only Rollback but Crossplay for a while but man that feels like asking for something impossible with the current climate. People are whack, just want good games.

"You just want rollback because it's cool to want rollback" No, I live in very rural Canada. In delay-based games I would constantly face laggy matches and have people complain to me that my internet is garbage or to get off wi-fi. I have a fast fibre connection and I use ethernet, but I just happen to live in a place that is far from most people. With Strive, Melee and Type Lumina I've actually been able to play online matches with very few issues. From this point on rollback is simply a feature I want so I can avoid dealing with complainers in delay-based games. If you live in a populated place with lots of players, sure go have fun, but rollback is pretty much a necessity for lots of us.

Oh shit it's the run back. Hope Sajam is ready for round 3 of this matchup in 2024.

Man I just don't get why people bitch about cars with sticky gearshifts. Like its not that big of a deal, you can adjust to it. We called it "delay based driving" and that was how cars were driven. Back in my day we just had to deal with it and that was that, if you got in an accident and died, well RIP bozo you know? All this talk about making it a "standard to have an efficient and well-lubricated gearshift system" is just total zoomer nonsense.

It's still wild that I could still see a fg get announced and my reaction is "sick is this playable online" when the technology is old at this point

"Bro, how entitled can you be? You think the movie should have an ending? Real fans don't need or even want closure. Why don't you just make your own movie with a 'complete story arc' if it's so important to you?"

REAL. I'm SO fucking tired of people pretending an ENTIRE mode of play NOT WORKING is at ALL acceptable.

for my 2 cents as a super casual player, netcode doesn't automatically make a game a buy/no buy for me, as I pay attention to everything else the game offers. but if we've already had netcode figured out for this long, and THIS many people are demanding it, it's still pretty inexcusable not to have rollback. like you're just being stubborn at that point lmao

I have mentioned a few times that I wished that Arc’s games just had a quick match queuing system and I can’t tell you how many times people in the FGC have told me that having a quick match queuing system wouldn’t work in a fighting game….I’m like, you know that some fighting games already do this successfully right? I just want to select play and be matched with someone.

Why are people against the idea of making their FAVOURITE fighting game playable online? Literally baffling 😑

oh, a colourblind mode for strive would be so good. some stages just make characters look like a blur

This stuff always bugs me, especially because when new smaller indie titles HAVE these things, people dont play them because they arent their standard favorites.

One feature Id love to see in training mode that I've only seen in the 20XX mod pack for melee is the character status color. More than just frame advantage colors. I'm currently learning Johnny in +R and getting the timing down for some of his air combos are difficult but I can manage it. It would be cool to set things like the "Wait : Green" feature in 20xx where your character is highlighted green when you're no longer in end lag "recovery", I also love IASA colors (Interrupt as soon as) showing off cancel windows. Not a requirement by any means but a cool feature that I thought would be cool.

I remember that tweet, I left a supportive response and forgot about it until it blew up with so many salty pissy responses, was absolutely hilarious how in denial people were about needing rollback

Ah yes, the Beaten Wife syndrome of gaming. Where you got so little in the past that you are happy for scraps when a feast is there for the taking if you stop settling. But no... asking for the bare minimum or what has been done before is traitorous heresy.

The other excuse that's annoying is people think the ability to make good game design excuses other faults. "Glorious Japanese devs make the best fighters. They shouldn't need to waste time making good complete packages. Leave that to shit western developers and their shit fighting games" Come on now.

When I was getting in to fighting games my fave for ages was +R just because it had so much single player stuff we need more of that to

Cheers to the PLAY button. Please. I don't see why Fighting games don't want to have this.

Lmao the original video is what brought me here to begin with. If P4U doesn't have rollback I'll still be happy that it isn't trapped on those old systems, but I struggle to see the point in doing this port at all if it doesn't have it especially with how many old arcsys games have been getting it. It has been disappointing to see how slow this genre has been to improve on qol features since it is taking/has taken so long for many devs to even think adding these essential features is necessary. Never mind actually improving upon them in any way.

Hey, i hear that they "consider" to add rollback in to the game So how about we also "consider" to buy the game if it have rollback? Let them taste their own medicine xD

What goes through these companies' execs heads? "Maybe the demand for rollback will go away?" Yeah it will...when people stop playing fighting games. Is this the idea? Smother the fighting game genre to death instead of include a feature that even amateurs code into their diy free fighting games?

I live in a middle of nowhere, in a country, where fighting games are not that popular (besides MK) Not having rollback netcode is a number one reason for me to skip the game. Trying to play a delay based anime fg is basically pointless. BBTAG was so fun for me, but there is nobody to play with. And if there is one poor soul I can connect to, then the connection quality is just horrible. No rollback - no buy

Ye shes right. It's completely ridiculous to release a game without decent netcode these days. Especially since we're still kinda in the midst of the varus. I mean if you buy a fighting game, dont you want to be able to play it with other people?

When this popped up in my recommended I honestly thought it was just the algorithm recommending the old video, and I thought why not, I’ll throw it up in the background while I work. Glad to see that the FGC never changes.

Always great to hear praise for TFH! Great game I hope more people jump into

I liked that edit where you zoom in on the word recommended as he highlights it, good job Moste

i almost feel like when making a fighting game, devs only focus on the gameplay and when they've finished that they dust their hands off for a job well done and ship the game

Rollback netcode is such a blessing, ever since bbcf got rollback I start looking for other fighting game that has rollback and joining discord for games that has low playerbase

But Sajam, having frame data as an option will scare new players. I see this one a lot. No, if they are scared by frame data, they would be scared by the current options anyways.

Preach it brother. We're really asking too much these days for simple shit? It reminds me of cancelling student debt. "No I had it rough so you should have to go through the same bullshit too". We're talking video games at the end of the day. Why is it so controversial? No competitive fighting game player should have the audacity to tell anyone that they don't notice that simple features are missing when they switch over to a different FG. Frame data, Side Switching, Resetting to Left/Right Corner the list goes on and on. It's perplexing to me that people are so adamant about not wanting to add simple shit in games that we are sinking our time into. Must be a GateKeeping OS if I've ever heard one.

I don't understand the "I like playing arcade mode, stop asking for rollback" mindset, like okay, you got what you wanted, lemme get what I want, this doesn't affect you it sounds like

I seriously can't believe that it's 2022 and fighting game players are still having to fight devs for a complete online package. It feels like the devs are stuck in the mid to late 2000s/early 2010s when it comes to delivering an online experience. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to have features that have been around for almost a decade.

We're at the point where we have so low standards that TFH (the game I play currently), which still lacks some basic features like ranked play, is the highest standard for fighting game with normal features... Wow

Just started playing MK11 after not playing the series since twas a kid and was amazed the frame data is just available in the move lists. It really helped me explain to my friend the basics of frame data

Coming from a mostly MOBA background, it's absolutely nuts how night and day the difference can be.

A lot of gamers have weird mindsets in general, especially when it comes to being defensive against a bare minimum feature. Do they even realise how stupid they would sound if we applied that mindset to other products and services that we support in our lives?

Another example of a fighting game function I need is training mode! You know who you are

Rollback is the bare minimum, next is crossplay

Lemme justify for Daemon Bride. No ports since examu literally died and there's being a revival with a new version in 2022 called EX again, but only for that new cab that's releasing. Boom, valid excuse

rollback has been in use for over a decade now, it's just disappointing that it's not in every fighting game now.

Its wild that the only game that quite literally has *everything* and then some is TFH, a game locked to PC with an art style that unfortunately doesn't have mass appeal...

Tuning a guitar is possible by ear, why do we need these baby mode tuners?

If the FGC could agree on a 2022 resolution, this must be it.

Nothing would be greater for a fighter than the world-record speedrun online system that is +R of just opening up the game, going online and into a match in around 9-10 seconds (I'm really not kidding), lowkey hope that Persona 4 Arena and many other fighters not only adds rollback as it should, but also find a way to have +R's online/lobby system that just super intuitive and quick to the point and have little decors and spice here and there, and not fricking Strive's lobby system which is the epitome of "Fashion over Function". Like IMO, the pixel avatars are unneeded, the pixel monitors along with the distance/adventure to them (for both you and your requested opponent, especially jumping up and down the rows) are also unneeded especially in friend lobbies, where you're str8 up playing your friend anyways or have a 3rd player there as well, so what's the point in the avatars and monitors in that specific aspect when you can just hook up a steam invite and go into a +R-esque lobby or character select screen against the other player and have a quick spectator mode, and if you wanna socialize with players it can be through steam's or playstation's messaging. Like Strive added too much fluff and no clear form or any form into just having someone play another person of their choosing in the world (outside of quick match where you're randomly pitted against someone), and many people don't want fluff and just wanna play and press buttons at another guy.

Its like the P2P vs dedicated servers debate all over even with these marketing fakeouts

“It’s cool to ask for rollback” yeah sajam famously rewarded by gatekeepers for asking for better net play

My favorite one, when someone said "Man, I wish DNF Duel had singleplayer content." was "DFO is the singleplayer. Just play that." If you ignore the fact that DFO is an MMO, it's an always online game, and plays nothing like its fighting game spinoff (DFO PvP =/= DNF) then yeah I guess it's basically the same game.

The only thing I can think of is that people are just scared of losing the small playerbase their game has. It’s stupid but I kinda get it. Like they’ll defend anything just to try and keep the game looking positive. I don’t play any games without rollback and I’ve been lucky enough that all the games I enjoy just happen to have it.

9:25 didn't arcsys say they were going to add a download function to online where you can record combos and post them for anyone to add to their library in Strive? I vaguely remember that from launch, but has that ever been implemented?

Yea i wont buy a fighting game without rollback, not because the game wont be good, but because in a couple of months the community will be fed up with lag and the game will become a ghost town.

The fact that I will have my 1+2 inputs drop in online tekken unless I use a shortcut button is some jank shit.

Every time I try to challenge someone in strive it’s like failed failed failed, so I go to training and it disconnects me from training saying there’s too many people waiting in training? Uh?

The problem seems simple to me. Companies that make fighters seem to think most of their money comes from brand recognition (there's some evidence to support that, too, although I think it's not 100% true.) So from a business perspective, would you rather make one game as polished and fully-featured as it really should be, and pray that people recognize what they're getting, or do you pump out two or three games attached to different franchises, each of them cheaper, and have way more guaranteed sales because people go "ooOH Dragon Ball" or whatever? Of course that's not all that's happening, if it was Street Fighter would be the most polished, welcoming fighter on the planet, because it's goddamn Street Fighter.

Really dont know why Sajam’s request for being able to select the delay of the netcode isnt a reality since Skullgirls did it like a decade ago.

my number one hated thing in strive is the "Connecting to server" that you can't influence in any way, got an SSD? great wait 5 minutes to connect? oh you got 500gb download? still 5 minutes. such a massively annoying thing to me to have go through like 2-3 times every single time i want to punch someone in the face online.

Honestly I blame Twitter

man this really is a time loop

At least we got parsec for these kind of games

No instant rematch kills the player

It's in game netcode is wonky but SFV's simple search for ranked and/or casual matches with ping bar options keeps me coming back for its ease of use. Set it in the menu and wait or go to training and wait easy. Strive is all over the place but as far as I remember you could set it to search in training.

My biggest takeaway from this video is that Sajam is subbed to Akito Bass. Love that (Also UNI rollback pls)

The people who want all these features are the same people who wanted a disc tray and wanted offline Xbox One consoles. Monsters.

Aka "If these Indie Ponies make a more Feature Rich Fighter than your AAA Game don't @ Me."

But where's Time Attack? Where's Survival mode? Where's Team Battle mode?

I get not wanting a game you like to die, but still. I don't have time to play every game, so I'm not going to spend my valuable time on a sub par experiance.

Like what you are going to like, And just have the honesty to admit it could be better. If you really love a game, you can point out the areas it's lacking in, and politely ask for it to be improved. More people might try it out and come to love the game too. You can't grow a community by putting up walls and defending with all you have.

People REALLY don't like to feel like the game they spent $60+ for has issues so they make up all kinds of excuses as to why it isn't a problem to justify it.

What makes this worse is that some games don't even need stuff like this but still receive it. Some fighting games don't have good online. Some games have online but their mostly a 1 player experience, Fighting games are a multiplayer experience and yet they still don't have this. Any other multiplayer genre that did this would get review bombed out of existence. Fighting games have bad UI name me one modern game from any other genre that has an UI like fighting games. Some fighting games have no tutorial while indie games have tutorials. People like to complain about NRS' balance and how it's trash and about it's story but at least they have functioning up to date fighting games. Like legit I can go and play a ROBLOX FIGHTING GAME and have a better experience why??

About the tweet, there are some replies that are very rude. The first part of the tweet is absolutely fine, she is givin her advice, nothing wrong with it. I am questioning the "there is no point...", maybe it's something perfectly fine in English and I am getting it wrong (English second language person) but it sounds like since there is no point in buying it, if you consider buying it you are wrong, your reasons for buying are invalid or something like that. Of course I agree that roll back is better and that we should ask the developer to raise the standard but as jiyuna said buy what you will, play what you will.

i hope this is the year that you can finally stop talking about this. i really like the new analogies you used. gonna use the burger one for sure in my next discussion about this topic.

Imagine getting flamed for not wanting to buy a game with dysfunctional online

the more time passes, the more anomalous strive becomes relative to how japanese companies think

I think they should change the frame data according to the delays if they go delay base to eliminate “online tech”. Eg if a command grab is 15frames, in offline I will have 15frames to react. But if I’m on a 4frames delay online I will only have 11 frames to react. Because the delays are across the board. It makes a lot of reactable encounters into a read only situation.

Granblue has such a good lobby system don't know why they don't mimic that more The xrd rooms were dope to They could have just made them bigger rooms for Stevie But hey the online is dope for strive at least

I know that rollback is and should be a standard for all games, and I believe so, and that stops me from playing other games with bad netcode (tekken and uniclr for example), but p4au is my favourite game, so no matter what I’m still gonna buy it

melty blood type lumina had a pretty rocky launch (for a lot of people) and has not the best lobby system. but i'm willing to deal with a game that (after the 1/13 patch) will only be missing out on parallel battle lobbies because the gameplay is great.

Fucking yes, thank you. Why can we not just have lobbies that can run more than one game at a time??? I have been complaining about that since the release of smash ultimate. What a trash online system.

Sometimes i scroll on twitter & it's like the meme where the guy is applying clown makeup

I netcode was shit but, damn kof 14 lobby was just amazing.

Thanks to lord Ed Boon for these amazing features in mkx and mk11

I never realized how heavily I relied on frame data apps until I played strive lol. The data needs to be in the game lol. Instant replay would be cool and replay take over to practice against situations you didn’t have an answer for. Simple lobbies are wanted a lot from me also. I hate strive lobbies.

I ordered a burger once and it had literally no meat on it. The place gave me two free meals as an apology, but still, how you forget that? Guess I wasn't a real fan.

10/10 outro

Here you are, complaining that Strive has no frame data in training mode. Here am I, wishing Chaos Code had input history in training mode :D

Probably not related to the video but I'm about to play Strive online for the first time

I want rollback. I want to press a button that searches for a match. I want to alt+tab.

Yo I saw that tweet a few days ago and remembering the IMMENSE amount of copium some of these guys are huffing

i fucking love uniclr but i don't play it because no rollback

Its out baybee

The ending is pure gold :D

People really showing us they really are clowns deep down. If your game doesn't function online it's not worth playing imo, especially in a never ending pandemic. Joined the fgc proper when KI 2013 came out and was surprised that other bigger games weren't doing it. Hate Japanese fighting game devs straight up ignoring platforms like PC and Xbox, no crossplay and multiplat means I'm not playing the game either.

I think from now on when I see someone defend bad practices in fighting games, I'm going post a picture of a shirtless old dude and this video.

what if they don't make new fighting game anymore? I guess that's why people denfend their games, it's not like other type games, like FPS...there's so much you wouldn't notice some studio closed.

Evergreen video

Im buying P4U because I can't get that game feel anywhere else. Same thing with Under Night. It was the same way with GGXXAC+R, BBCF, KOF98UM and KOF02UM, but I was lucky enough that those games got rollback after the fact. Would UNI and P4U be made infinitely better with rollback? A thousand times YES. No one should have to wait for a fighting game to WORK PROPERLY. But alas, I am a stupid Atlus fan.

As a huge fan of Soul Calibur, god SC6 is missing so much. I was playing Guilty Gear, and UNIST for a bit as a break, then booted up SC6; god is it barren. No game tutorials or combo tutorials (that I could find), Bad Net code, lobby system sucks. I love this game, but I'd love it so much more if we could just have at least a few of the features that other games have.

no but FR I refuse to buy Persona until rollback patch until then Atlus already got my money from the OG on Ps3

Gamers just never seem to get tired of hating themselves.