In this video, I rant about neck sizing brass. It is the cause of so many issues for new shooters and it does not provide any advantage over F/L sizing with controlled shoulder bump.
I used to "neck size only" with my .270 and .30-06. I did this because I was taught to do it this way. After watching your video(s) I ran a mixed batch of once-fired Match, LC and HXP brass; properly prepped the cases, full length sized, hit the neck with 0.002, and yea my group tightened up and the action was smooth. My old pet load shifted by a full-grain of powder, but I am still hitting 1,420 ft-lbs at 400-yards (-14 inches) and 1-inch high at 100 yards with a 0.61-inch group. Thanks for the insight. I have been doing it wrong for more than a decade.
I always heard neck sizing was better for a bolt rifle, but I bought full length sizing dies by accident. I learned to control the shoulder bump and never looked back. As a hunter and hobby shooter, I value reliability and consistency. Thanks for sharing.
I watched this video while in the dentist waiting room with the sound down and captions on. Several times it mentions you sizing “breasts” instead of brass. People thought I was crazy when I busted up laughing! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
My name is Julius, and I have neck sized before. A lot. Thankfully I’m in recovery now I and take it one day at a time. Thank you all for your support.
You know guys look up Eric's credentials before posting your comments and some showing their bigotry. Eric is on team Lapua and competes and wins. Shooting like any other sport is a brotherhood and teaching, helping and sharing is part of that, thank you for showing us the ugly side of humanity. In over 45 years of shooting I've never seen the disrespectful attitude like in the last few years where reloaders throw safety and common sense into the wind, know better than true experts and then post and prove they are part of the entitled culture ruining our nation!
You don't seem to understand Eric's statement. "Neck sizing is less accurate than full length size." It is simply not true and he knows this. Unfortunately his brain is stuck in the parameters in which he shoots and not considering reloading fundamentally. So everyone understands yes the most accurate round you can shoot is a fireformed round for your chamber. Ask the experts: Hornady, berger, Sierra, LAPUA(LOL). If your rifle/pistol allows you to get away with neck sizing without issues stick with it.
@@pearlrival3124 thank you for explaining I don't understand something I have been doing over 40 years! I guess just neck sizing my brass for benchrest shooting all this time was a waste and only needing to create neck tension was such a waste!
@@Thomas-ze4en No you misunderstand. It it ideal for benchrest shooters, but I shoot a single shot break action and neck sizing is all I have done for 20 years. I chamber fine with a hornet. Again it is the parameters that you are in that define the scenario for reloading. I encourage you to read any reloading manual on this topic. There is no debate between them. The issue here is F-class shooters thinking they are the only ones who shoot rifles with reloaded ammunition. Fireformed rounds are the most accurate if they can be loaded. The only other adjustments I make to my brass are trimming & annealing. My 30-30 Leveraction does require F/L resize after 8-10 rounds. But doing that after every round shot is a waiste. Not to mention the trimming that you have to add because of the bump.
I've been reloading for 45 years. About four years ago, a close buddy of mine talked me into getting "serious" about accuracy. Since that time I've watched a lot of videos and studied a great deal on the subject. There's a great amount of non-sense on the web and in magazines and a lot of it makes you want to say "So what?". Eric Cortina dispenses with the BS. If a person has a firm grasp of physics, everything he says in his videos makes perfect sense. If someone doesn't "get it" perhaps opening their mind up to new ways of looking at things would be beneficial to them. Keep it up Eric-you have taught this old man a lot in a short period of time.
consistency is the KEY word.As long as you do the same thing EVERY time it stays the same.One way may be better than the other for sure.Because after 3 fires on Neck Sizing you have to Full Length size once.Nowif that 4th firing is not Fire forming , and used in a match then thdere goes the CONSISTENCY out the window.LOL
Interesting rant. What you note from the replies is some people don't have a problem with neck sizing. This is really about pressure. If your gun shoots best at your range with a light or moderate load, say, under around 50,000 psi, you'll probably find neck sizing causes you no clear issues. But if your gun is one of those that shoots best with loads just a few percentage points below what it takes to get sticky bolt lift, then everything Erik said applies. I shot a .222 Remington loaded by neck sizing with the old Zero-error Lee Target Model Lee Loader back in the 1980s, using the powder scoop that came with it that threw 18.5 grains of 4198 and never had issues, printing 100-yard cloverleaves all day with 50-grain bullets out of a Remington 600. Based on Hodgdon's load data, I estimate the peak pressure was just under 45,000 psi. But my .308 tactical rifle shooting 175-grain SMK's loaded to get to 1000 yards and probably exceeding the SAAMI MAP with a charge I won't publish, does not like neck sizing-only at all. Doing that costs me nearly 1/2 MOA in group size. For that rifle, I neck size with a Lee Collet die and separately size the body with a Redding Body Die to set the shoulder position. That produces the lowest case runout for me and it works very well.
That has really worked for me for years shooting .303 British through many rifles, one at MAP which can reliably hit a stationery clay target at 800 yards, wind permitting. I also use the method for a 6.5 Creedmoor varminter at max pressure and a 6.5x55 sporter with full house Reloader 26 loads and 160gn Woodleighs. I anneal every second or third firing and accuracy in all rifles using this method is as good as I can squeeze them. Marcus O'Dean - Downunder.
Neck size only : + uniform an slight neck tension (most important factor for accuracy) + cases last longer (less hardening) + no need to trim the cases (it doesn't get longer because you dont bump the shoulder back) - a bit less concentricity (important factor, but less than an uniform neck tension) - can only be used with bolt rifles for sport shooting (semi-autos, military and hunting rifles need a FL resizing) - the resized brass can only be shot in the same rifle FL resizing : + best concentricity + works with all kinds of rifles (headspace gap) - cases last less (brass hardening, breaking) - cases gets longer, it must be checked everytime and shortened with the trimmer (because its die bumps the shoulder back) - less uniform neck tension (bad for accuracy) FL neck bushing resizing : Gives the best of the 2 previous methods. (this kind of resizing is used for benchrest shooting) ---> To get the best accuracy, go for FL Neck resizing, or neck sizing only if you prefer to make your brass last longer ---> For hunting, military usage, or semi-auto guns : Full Lenght sizing dies
JC Lacrotte Your opinion does not trump my experience. You can load a cartridge very hot and not have issues, and load it mild and have issues. It all has to do with compatibility between brass, chamber, and dies.
@@ErikCortina Its not "His Opinion" its facts. Jesus Christ, he didn't even state an opinion. Stop being a fanboy and accept the fact that both Neck Sizing and Full Length sizing have their benefits.
Erik Cortina I was giving you some credibility and thought you might have something to teach. Turns out you're an opinionated asshole and in my 40 years of shooting I've seen too many goofs like you to count. Grow up and act like a man, not a maniac.
@@14goldmedals if you take out your firing pin and adjust your fl die so that the bolt just closes on the case without resistence, your aren't working the brass hard. The case is still formed to your specific chamber, and will last a long time and you wont have problems clambering any brass. When you neck size sooner or later you will have to fl size and you are back to square one. That is the difference between 100% consistency and consistency most of the time.
Not a competition shooter but been using the Lee Classic Loaders in 30-30, .270 Win, 300 Savage and .243 Win with great results. I don't have much brass stretch and have dedicated, fire-formed brass for each rifle. The downside, I guess, is that I can't mix rounds dedicated to my pre 64 Model 70 in my Model 70 XTR. That's the only time I've had a bolt closure issue. When I looked at the labeling, I knew I'd grabbed the wrong rounds. I know that bench shooting and my use for a rifle are World's apart, but my Savage 99 rifles are sub MOA and my old Model 70 rifles aren't far behind. The Lee Classic Loaders and my vintage rifles just keep putting deer and elk in the truck. I bet I can outshoot 75% of competition bench shooters in the 4 Classic military positions, anyway. I see these guys come out West with 20 pound rifles, 55 mm objective lenses and all kind of support contraptions and we ranch kids know right away, that's the guy who's going to gutshoot his deer.
World-class shooter sharing what works for him... man the responses seem angry. Nobody cares if you keep doing it the way your grand-dad did... good for you... go do that... keep racking up that steel at 300 yards.
Mr Cortina, you have quickly reached a public as far as Sweden.. Me and many others realy like your keep it simple attitude and your videos are both fun and educational.. Feel free to make a video about pressure signs if you want ;-) that would be alot of fun since I belive there is alot of myths to debunk when it comes to pressure.. Keep up the great job!
Can you demonstrate on video how you can partially bump the case shoulder and full length size a case at the same time with a full length resizing die?
Depends a lot on the cartridge, type of brass, annealing, and pressure. My 338 lapua gets hard to close after the third firing if I just neck size, but you can neck size only 30-30 and never have an issue with mild loads.
I've been reloading for 25 yrs & I haven't had sticky bolt issues as a rule from neck sizing only. My latest rifle is a Howa 1500 as a hunting rig &, it has the smallest chamber I've ever come across. It's chambered in 308 which, I haven't reloaded for 15 yrs or so. I bought 3 boxes of federal ammo to see how it fairs with off-shelf stock &, for a supply of brass to get me up & running. From new, that rifle closes with resistance on new federal ammo &, is inconsistent as well with, 5 rounds being tighter than the rest in each box of 20 which, tells me that, factory ammo isn't as uniform as it should be. Before you ask, the Bbl & chamber were thoroughly cleaned &, a friends bore-scope confirmed no dags or machining problems with the chamber. After blacking the cartridges, the only mark is where the shoulder bunts against the chamber shoulder so, the chamber is too short with zero headspace on new factory ammo. These factory rounds were all fired with no problems at all &, bolt lift on extraction was normal bar 6 or 8 among the entire 60 rounds which, were quite firm on bolt lift. I was eager to see how the brass would go after full length sizing. To my surprise, all rounds chambered the same as the factory rounds with slight resistance but, no anomalies. All felt the same this time round. Since that first Full length size, I have neck sized only with, no apparent stretch or growth according to bolt lift on extraction which, is par for the course for me over the yrs. Accuracy has been excellent for a light contour 20" factory Bbl coming in mostly 1.5" to 2" at 100 meters. Five shot groups. I've reloaded all 60 4 times, the last 3 of which neck collet sized only. No noticeable change as yet. So far, the rifle has performed flawlessly so, I can't see a good reason to send it back because of the undersized chamber. When I measure the fired brass, there is only a few thou of circumference bulge just ahead of the webbing. I conclude that, the chamber reamer wasn't run in deep enough which, has undersized the chamber all round. Can't see any signs of over-pressure even when ADI load data is exceeded by 1 grain. My Chrony shows me nice incremental velocity gain all the way to 1 grain over max. I use 5 shot groups in half grain increments. I intend to do more load development with this rifle than I'd normally bother with to see how this undersized chamber pans out. All very curious, slightly perplexing but, not yet vexing.
Dang I feel so dumb now I had a 7mm that I was neck sizing that the brass wouldn’t eject I bet the base was sticking all because I saw the T-shirt between your 2 channels you have helped so much I’m a bigger fan now thank you
Thank you for enlightening me. I've done it every which possible and still wondered why my full length sized prep out performs my neck sized loads. I'm glad a found your video sir.
Brings to mind the X Die I bought for my 220 Swift....it did exactly as you describe in the point raised in this video. Having a fondness for Lee's collet die, I found that the RCBS X die was a superb alternative.
When I was still shooting and reloading I used to FL size to bump the shoulders back 2thou and then I would neck size with a collet die with a custom mandrel for the neck tension I wanted/worked best.
yeah thats the point with this video. it does not give you the detail. even when i flr, i still use a collet neck sizer to bring the concentricity down.
@@pepperoni-prepper I bought already sized 7x57 PRVI brass and just neck sized for concentricity. I shot great groups for my cheapo ADAMS and Bennet barrel. 0.77" and two other of groups of 0.93" at 100 yards. The downside was some of the rounds were difficult to feed though easy to extract and the primers all looked good. I fully resized the brass and noticed/felt the new PRVI brass still needed some sizing and then they fed very smoothly, so I neck sized one more time and then fed the them again and they were just a little stiff. This was done without bullets so that will be next.
Interesting video. I had a .300 Win Mag. Using Nosler Custom brass I neck sized only, however, every 3 or 4 firings I had to full length size them, and bump the shoulder back approximately .002" (exactly as you said BUT, with absolutely no discernible increase or decrease in accuracy!). I picked on just one shell, for I wanted to see how many firings I could get before having to retire it. Well, I managed 20 loads (208 A-Max at 2980 fps) and it let go with a head separation (just ahead of the belt) on the 21st firing! I now have a .300 RUM and the gun builder told me not to neck size the brass at all, simply wack it back .002" every time with a FL sizer. I'm shocked to find that typically after only 4 to 5 firings I'm now having to retire brass for exactly the same reason, again with no discernible difference in accuracy... I can't wait to start neck sizing again if, for no other reason than to extend the life of my brass!
I’ve been neck sizing for years with no problems, but I only let the brass go 2 firings before I full length size again. That said, the reason I neck size is to speed up the process, and it does
If you get a F/L die, it takes the exact same amount of time to neck size as it does to F/L size. If you can get two firings after F/L sizing, you are likely sizing the brass too much. Try doing controlled F/L size like I talk about and you'll like it. Brass will be same size every time. Thanks for watching and commenting.
The speeding up comes from not having to lube the brass. But if you are only touching the shoulders and base, then do you also get away without lubing? That would be good to know. I don't want a stuck case.
@@ErikCortina Pretty recently I learned, that many people actually size just "correct amount" with F/L die. Could you explain how to do it easily? I have a single stage press, which I have to switch dies all the time.
In the course of my early reloading hobby, I was told by not just my father, but pretty much everyone else, to neck size my brass only. Shooting the video Tage military rifles I do, I thought that was the only way to get top accuracy but by acciden one day I found I had partly FL sized my brass for my 03 Springfield. It wasn't true full length but more like a bump full length, hence the reason I didn't notice it. I figured I would finish them out and then just use them for plinking rounds. When I made it to the range suddenly discovered that they shoot better than my best previous loads and that's when it clicked to me. I began setting my dies to bump the shoulder .001 and found they weren't quite as accurate and when I went to .003 bump, I found the sweet spot for my rifle. Glad to see I wasn't being an odd ball now, because I mentioned it just once to a reloading friend and he laughed at me calling me crazy, til he saw my group.
"No one neck sizes anymore". Sorry, but not every firearms enthusiast makes his purchase off of the AR rack at Bass Pro. Most enfields, Mas36s, Dutch hembrugs (just to name a few) accuaracy not only benefits from neck sizing but in a lot of cases a necessity for safety and to a lesser degree brass life. I wonder, did you ask anyone that same question on the firing line at a CMP vintage match?
Adrian Q exactly. There are a few things not said in this video. These guys all shoot custom barrels which in some cases come with custom dies. Bumping the shoulder back and the upper portion of the case body is not a new found technique, people done it for years. Many people including myself went to bushing neck sizing and bumping the shoulder not for accuracy, but for decreasing runout and brass life. Everybody to their own but I’ve seen positives to both methods. I’m sure it would suck to be half way through a precision round and have a round not chamber. By all means full length em. I don’t believe that there is one method that is perfect for every situation. Especially with factory guns.
@@Anax100 i take it you've never had a ruptured or snapped case in your life. Brass work hardens, the less you work it, the longer it lasts. Opinions are like holes, everybody got em and they all stink. Facts are needed to make an informed decision. Oh, and he doesn't full length size, he bump sizes on custom dies for a custom rifle with a custom chamber, none of which you got.
I too use to necksize only, or at least until the brass grew to the point of a stiff bolt close, then I'd bump the shoulder and size the body using a Redding Body Die. Then I figured let's try it your way. So i started doing a full length resize every time with my collet die and body die to maintain the shoulder location at approx. .002" under my actual headspace length. Concentricity with this method is amazing and I have to admit that my ammo more consistent from one loading to the next. Plus I have no worries of a round not clambering.
Erik, are you running F/L dies with bushings to control neck tension? I'm looking forward to the day you post a video of your reloading process and load development from start to finish :)
This was going to be my question as well. New to PRS and reloading. I went to load once fired brass (RCBS match master dies) and found my neck tension was too lose. I could pull out the bullet by hand. Talked around and was recommended to get a neck bushing. I did, and “fixed” the issue. Again, I’m new to reloading, so all of this is a learning curve, and there are so many different opinions out there on what to do, what not to do.
Iv'e been full sizing all of my Cases for my Bolt Rifles for the last 30 yrs for Hunting only & the accuracy I get is amazing with my hand loads Period thanks for sharing
Amen brother! Benchrest shooter learned this secret 20 years ago! Rant on Erik you're right on the money!!!! Another added plus is that you disrupt the rifle far less when you bolt closes and opens easily on the firing line.....less chance of a crossfire as well!
Thanks so much for this Eric. I had never gotten into neck sizing but up until this moment it had been on my “to-do list”. You have definitely saved me a lot of money (and apparently anguish). I’m sure I’m one of many that had been completely duped by the myth that it was more accurate. And I feel you are the textbook definition of a viable source when it comes to accurate shooting and reloading. 💨 Thanks again -Stagger
Erik I fully agree with U. Reason I know is because I was a Neck resizing guy I’ve had every thing u mentioned and more happen it wasn’t good! Really like your videos keep them rolling.
I experimented with neck sizing and full length sizing just bumping the shoulder back at 1000 yard matches. I got consistently better groups and longer brass life by annealing then full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back. I had 23 loads on my IMI .50BMG match brass when I set a World record 5 shot group at Quantico Marine base during a 1000 yard Regional match back in 2004. I have not used a neck size die since then.
Great! I should have watched this first before I wasted my time watching the neck sizing videos. I have the Lee pacesetter dies and it only has the FLD so you also saved me from buying the NSD Thanks!
You are correct. Serious bench rest shooters quit neck sizing 30 years ago. I would not consider neck sizing in a bench gun, or a hunting rifle either for that matter. It had its place years ago when the die makers and reamer makers couldn't get consistent, but now???? No reason for it.
Pfft! I neck sized my 22-250 and had 1/4 MOA accuracy and never full length sized my brass. Never had any problems. Also ran hot loads with the bullet seated into the lands. What ever works for you, experiment. Don't listen to the experts, there are to many of them.
Some are just so fixed with neck sizing... I do the same Erik does, for those old fashioned guys.. Try it once, and you will know why. For me, the ease to chamber a round in alone is worth it.
Mitchell Maxberry 5 time US NRA National , 52+ regional wins over 12 US National Records , YOU are 100% correct ! The best part is the Redding competition shell holders which are intended to bottom out on the base of the die greatly add to accuracy in sizing cases . LOVE YOUR VIDEO !
I only ever neck size. I don't FL size at all any more, and gave it away years ago. I have done a fair bit of testing and for my purposes neck sizing works. I have had batches of brass in a range of calibres which I ran well past 30 loading cycles, with attention to the initial fireform and regular neck anneals, but no FL sizing and saw none of the problems claimed by Mr Cortina. No difficulties with chambering, no galling of locking surfaces, no broken bolts. In fact as well as bolt-actions I have done the same with loads for break-action, falling block and lever action rifles. The claim of expansion of the case heads being a particular problem with neck sizing is nonsense. If your case heads are expanding you are loading too hot, and it makes no difference at all whether you are neck sizing or bumping the shoulder. Also nonsense is the claim that brass continues to expand and will get too big for a chamber - that just demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the behaviour of brass. Brass, by virtue of its elasticity (see Hooke's Law) always comes out of the chamber with clearance to the chamber walls. The only thing that will make the brass too big to go back into the chamber is something YOU do to it in reloading. Properly done, neck sizing will not cause that. In contrast, there are circumstances where FL sizing does not work, and does in fact shorten brass life. It may work well in a tight match chamber, with no more than bumping the shoulder (not technically FL sizing), because the degree of cold working is minimal. However the greater the degree of sizing - such as taking brass from an oversize chamber and pushing it back to SAAMI spec - the greater the degree of cold work. The biggest problem I have seen is in rifles like Lee Enfields, which were cut with very generous chambers and often fairly generous headspace. Here if you FL size each time case life can be as short as 3-4 loading cycles, and you'll often see splits and case-head separations. If instead you pay careful attention to a concentric fireform on the first time out, and then neck size only, and neck anneal regularly, you can pretty much eliminate those problems.
Daniel Greetings, you sound quite knowledgeable, I would like to ask your advice. .338 Lapua mag brass, new to reloading, does the annealing process increase the life of the case vs not? Thank you for your time!
He must be talking only about world record holders, because I'm not one and neck sizing only works great for me, I do own a FL sizer for range brass when I get some that won't chamber in my gun. And I have loaded for a number of rounds.
I agree I’ve done both methods, after setting my FL sizer die and measuring with my Hornady case size comparator it bumps the shoulder only 1 1/2 thou but that works great for me smooth bolt closing and minimal case stretching. FL sizing has given me better accuracy in my loading. .
cheers for the info mate as i'm knew to long range shooting ( about 2 years ) I found most people i spoke to very close minded about these things but as I've increased my knowledge I've come to realize that most people just listen to their mates as i did at the start but then realized that most people don't have a bloody clew its good to hear from someone who actually does it professionally i really appreciate the time you've taken to make these videos your info has helped me immensely i just wish the guys i shoot with were a bit more open to trying things everything I've see you show us has worked for me and my mates think i'm an idiot but the proof is in the pooding after only a few weeks with my sako and following what you've shown i can consistently getting 1/4 groups at a hundred before i go out further and usually the only time it changes is just me having an off day thanks mate and keep up the truth
Yes, do neck size if you want custom ammunition for your rifle, if you have trouble loading a round into the chamber after neck sizing, you probably need to bump the should back a little till the bolt closes and opens without issues. Check the casing length and trim if you need to, over all length should really be measured at the ogive.
I been firing the same brass for 20 years. The olny time they been full length sized was the day i got them. I neck size and iv shot fox acrossed hole sections in north dakota. So over a mile? With my stock 22-250 you think thats not accurate? The brass aint got a long enough life? I dont get wat your saying.
Adam Johnson same here. I have been never had any of these issues he spoke of neck sizing. Depending on the rifle I usually get about 5 or 6 firing then I bump/fL size and start over. The accuracy is about the same for me either way but I do know a get a ton more firings out of a piece of brass with that method.
Anyone here ever heard of Glen Zediker (He just passed on 1 October of this year...RIP)? Read his book "Hand Loading for Competition." Page 139 of the book, concerning neck sizing, Glen says "Under most circumstances, there is no accuracy advantage in neck only sizing..." He also says that a snug fit of the case to the chamber does not result in better accuracy. So, that's at least another "expert" speaking on the matter. Erik and Glen aren't the only two who hold this notion. If you do some research, you'll find plenty of other experts that hold the same opinion.
I used to neck size some but not much any more. When a fired case is used again with neck sizing it is fire formed to that particular chamber and no other. That is the main reason I don't neck size any more. I can't use the round in any other gun because it will only chamber in the gun it was fired out of unless the chamber of another gun is smaller. Full length resizing brings the whole case back to factory case size. I don't worry about shoulder bump if the full length sizing die is set/adjusted correctly back to factory case size (following manufacture die set up instructions) the case should chamber without any resistance. If the die is set correct per manufacturer instructions and there is resistance then a new die might be needed. Shoulders should not have to be "bumped" when full length resized cases are set back to factory manufacturer specs. After initial die adjustment always check sized cases for any chamber deformation of the case be it shoulder or any other.
Dude u crack me up! good info! for deer hunting ill neck resize and full case every 4- 5 shots (every 20 years maybe lol), but your advice for shooters is excellent man!
From these comments here one can see that some people prefer neck sizing while some people full length size, which is what I do. I say do what works for you. I bought a chamber gauge for my 6.5 grendal because I made them from 762x39 brass. If they won't go in it completely, I run them through the resize die again. If they still won't fit, trash them. This worked for me this time. I've never necked sized and have had some awesome loads. Do what you prefer. I'm glad I bought the chamber gauge. I would hate to have loaded 500 rounds for the Grendel that would not work.
"every time people go out after neck sizing they have problems" oh really? Then they are doing it wrong. Neck sizing fire formed brass is the most accurate way to reload possible and it also keeps your brass from being over worked giving you many more loadings over full length sizing. Setting your die to bump the shoulder back 2 thousandths does the same as full length sizing. Every full length sizing die I have, when set to the shell holder, bumps the shoulder back no more than 2 to 3 thousandths anyway .
mojo jojo Neck sizing is the most accurate way possible? Then can you explain why competition shooters like myself F/L size our brass? BR shooters and F-Class shooters that are winning are doing it like I suggest. Do you even compete bro? 😆
I'm no expert but i used to neck size my brass. around june this year I was at a PRS competition and i got to talking to a bunch of the pros And like he said in the video every single one of them are full length sizing. since then I got a reading 6.5 creedmoor full length bushing die set And my groups have been every bit As good As when I was neck sizing
Idk personally ever had an issue with neck sizing and I gained a lot more accuracy. Cases get tight along with tight cases primer pockets stretched anyway toss em. All depends the caliber as well I get cases that separate in my 303 if I full length size due to over dimension chambers neck resizing isn’t just for accuracy.
Ive never ran into any problems neck sizing. But if Im competing or hunting I'm gonna full length resize period. I mainly just shoot bench but I've never ran into any issues
I want Eric to elaborate “a whole lot, more“ on “fully resizing“. I understand what he and others are saying about consistency, but to me and most of the people I’ve corresponded with that have reloaded since the early 1980s, Are confused and think full length resizing undoes what “fire forming“ accomplishes. A lot of reloading companies I’ve corresponded with also agree, Eric needs to elaborate a whole lot more on this topic🤔 Starting with virgin brass first firing in your rifle fire formed the brass. Once the brass is fire formed/Custom sized to your chamber, I was always under the impression, bumping her shoulder back approximately 2000, neck, sizing on the inside & out of the case, and possibly turning the neck was the way to go.
I have to differ with your opinion here friend! I've been re-loading for 50 years and 90% of that time, I've been NECK SIZE only for HUNTING cartridges in hunting rifles, 7mm Rem. Mag., 300 Win. Mag., 300 Weatherby Mag., 338 Win Mag., 375 H&H Mag., 270 Win., 25-06, 22-250 and many others... I shoot Remington model 700 rifles. Every cartridge is exclusive to one rifle. I've heard many times over the years that you can't "neck size" only and get reliable chambering for hunting purposes and I say to that, BULLSHIT! I have NEVER had a single issue with any caliber or rifle in chambering a hunting cartridge in any of the hunting rifles that I have loaded for. I have 25-06 and 22-250 cartridges that have been loaded and fired many times over and only require over-all length trimming every third firing due to NORMAL case stretching...I haven't full length sized any of them since, ever. My hand loads are all high performance loadings and I let my rifles dictate what pressure they work at, brass life is secondary to performance and even with that, I have never run into any trouble with opening a bolt after firing or closing a bolt on a loaded neck sized only cartridge... Accuracy wise, I am looking for "hunting" accuracy, 1/2 inch or less at 100 yards and won't settle for anything less, and I always obtain that with high velocity hunting loads that perform splendidly in operation in the rifles I use. The high pressure problems that you describe have absolutely nothing to do with "neck sizing". "Stuck bolts" and bolt lug "galling" are a product of a more serious lack of understanding of what one is doing either at the loading bench, or at the gun store in buying inferior products. In 50 years, I've never seen a responsible and knowledgeable hand loader that knew how to work up high performance loads, cause the problems that you describe. There are two schools of thought regarding neck sizing and you are free to choose which side you personally prefer. 99% of the time, the rifle will dictate what you as a re-loader will do...
Mike Magnum i’ve been reloading for over 40 years and I personally next size and every third time i full length size and trim, I also use the same brass in the same rifle ,it’s like having your brass fire formed to the chamber !
50 years huh? You do realize it only works for you because you are loading cases fired from a single rifle, and reloading those same cases for the same rifle. This in effect has fire formed each of your cases to your particular chamber. These cases will always fit your chamber, but fit maybe 50% of a different rifle in the same caliber. After 50 years apparently your knowledge of reloading is limited to you, and you alone. Posting comments that make others feel "Your way" is correct is dangerous and could hurt somebody else that is reloading for multiple rifles of same caliber.
@@huntergray8180 To experienced loaders, I agree. However, trolling me does not change the fact that opinion based information regarding reloading live ammo can be and is dangerous for inexperienced loaders.
Nick Loepp if you are getting into reloading you should know it’s not a game. And me personally I know what works for me. I just get a kick in the comment sections of these videos. I properly label all of my ammo regardless if it’s neck resized or full length( which I only do in my ar-15s and ar-10) and I don’t go to the range with people who are dumb enough to take my ammo(which is obviously not factory) and shoot it out of their own rifle. Those are the same people who blow up their rifles by straight up shooting the wrong caliber out of it. If you don’t wanna be trolled don’t say dumb shit
How were you neck sizing? The brass comes out of your rifle with clearance to the chamber walls, due to the recovery of elastic strain ("springback"), so if your loaded rounds won't chamber easily that is because of something you did in the reloading process. Often it is by using a sizing die (perhaps a FL die adjusted to partially size the neck) which drags a ball through the neck and in doing so pulls the shoulder forward. It also makes the case longer, and people often think that the brass somehow "flows forward" on firing as a result. The problem can be avoided by using a die without the expander ball.
Daniel Brass can actually grow larger than chamber, which will create chambering and extraction issues. That’s why I recommend F/L sizing with 0.002” shoulder bump.
@@ErikCortina I have been neck sizing Lapua brass for a while and haven't had any problems (yet) but I also admit that it didn't shrink my groups. I will start trying the .002 bump.
@@nerdyengineer7943 i am so confused i reload a 6 br with a no turn neck chamber. but when i reload a fired case there is no way a bullet is going to stay in the neck if i dont size it any. i bump my shoulder 2 thou . use a .267 bushing for the neck . that gives me about 10 lbs seating pressure. but the only thing i have found that will cause a bolt sticking situation is if i dont full length size each time. i have to bump the neck back 2000 each time. i shoot 105 burgers with 30 grains for varget. i can usually stay from a quarter to even zeroes at 200 yards. 600 and 1000 depends on the wind.
@@stevewiles9755 I use a collet die: it squeezes the neck radially inward around a mandrel. I haven't found bullet tension to be an issue: my rifle seems to prefer no crimp. The bullets aren't loose and do not slide in the brass. I anneal the brass after neck sizing and before bullet seating. I need to watch Erik's other videos though and find out what kind of dies he is using to do his shoulder bump. I don't want to use an FL die for that. I think I might need a special die. Not sure.
I necksized only for decades. I now bump the shoulder every resize. Works better all the way around for me. I started reloading when I was twelve. Now I'm 62. If my math is right that's 50 year's worth of experience. Quit being a hardheaded prick like I was and give it a try.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. How about some facts? Has anybody done any comparison tests on life of brass and accuracy? Opinions are not facts. I neck size and after 10 reloads I have not had any bolt problems. And my cases have not grown.
I'm no expert but i used to neck size my brass. around june this year I was at a PRS competition and i got to talking to a bunch of the pros And like he said in the video every single one of them are full length sizing. since then I got a reading 6.5 creedmoor full length bushing die set And my groups have been every bit As good As when I was neck sizing
I’m with you. I’ve neck sized for years and depending on the caliber sometimes I don’t have to touch a shoulder for a dozen rounds. I have no doubt that full length is the way to go of your in a high pressure situation like competition or a navy seal sniper in battle lol.
All the best benchrest shooters and f class shooters on the planet have proven it time and time again! Also he shot a 5 shot group at 1000 yards that measured barely over 1" the proof is in the pudding i'd say!
Neck sizing (in my opinion) only contributes to consistent neck tension if you also neck turn (outside turn and ream inside) to achieve uniform neck wall thickness. Also, when you neck size, you will have to neck turn anyway after 3x to cut out the donut that forms at the neck/shoulder junction as the brass flows into the shoulder. That donut leads to inconsistencies. If you are a competitor, you will be running warm loads anyway, meaning your brass life is not a factor, because primer pockets will be blown out way before other brass life considerations are taken into account. Annealing is also important, and should be done every firing before sizing. Competitors are achieving same or better precision with FL sizing, and winning matches, also knowing that those rounds will chamber and extract cleanly every single time. Neck sizing is fine also, nobody is gonna tell you to change your methods. But you are probably not a competitor, (assuming) and your rifle likes your loads. That's all that matters. Methods and machining tolerances (for tools and dies) have improved over the decades, and sometimes it's ok to change. I'm fairly new to LR shooting, and have been full-length sizing (in 2 steps using a collet neck sizer followed by a body die for .002 bump) My groups and ES/SD have been excellent, with my first-time to 1K with .308 yielding a 3 inch group at 1k and SD/ES of 1/3 respectively. There seems to be consensus from some of the world's best shooters on this, so they may be on to something.
I've never had a problem with neck sized brass - being neck sizing since 1984. On the other hand, I reload for grins and giggles. I don't compete, and use factory ammo for hunting and self-defense. I'll take his word for it.
Good video.. It's always conventional wisdom until the wisdom changes. I always got random stiff bolts on my 220 swift and 22.250 until i went back to full length sizing every time. When i did everything was smooth again..😁
You can add to that list Type 99 and 38 Arisakas, Carcanos, Mosins and every other one of my C&R collection through Winchester 92-94s.. You'll reduce the group sizes at least 2 MOA. I also do it in modern rifles like the Axis II Predator HB 6.5 CM. If someone is getting swelling at the web of brass to the point where they can't close the bolt like a knife cutting butter after fire-forming, I'd check that load--something is FUBAR in what they're doing. The tell is needing to resize that COL every time as he implies. It just doesn't happen on my bench. The point of using a brass alloy for cartridges is that after the heat of ignition is transferred to the chamber wall the brass is supposed to reduce it's expanded diameter about .001 or so that the cartridge releases from the chamber.
All true, but according to this guy vintage rifles are for amatures and only real men shoot 1000yd competitions. (At least that is the vibe) I bet there are plenty of #4mk1 owners out there who can hang with the modern sporter crowd at 1000yds. Mine is good out to 700 with iron, and being a traditionalist she will never wear a scope, but I can just imagine what it could do at extended range. Oh ya, almost forgot. I neck size for her too.
Ok Mr. knowitall; how is it that I've fired the same brass about 10 times neck sizing only without any chambering/extraction issues and no brass failures?
@@hamedizzy6441 No. I've loaded from middle to above book maximum neck sizing, far from light loading. The only time I load light is for testing experimental stuff and for all cartridges going into my 7.62 converted MAS 49/56 since it wasn't designed for that cartridge's power.
For 99%of cartridges I fully agree there is no need for neck sizing. There are exceptions to this though one is 303brit where the chambers are cut so big that your brass is done after a couple fireings with FL sizing and the other is straight wall rifle cases were you only need enough neck tension to hold the bullet. Both of those examples are rimed and dont headspace off the shoulder.
If you have a custom cut die that matches your chamber it is fine... But if you don't it is up in the air... I let my results speak for themselves, group size, extreme spread, and brass life... There is no such things as absolutes, every chamber, gun and die is unique.... Do what works best for your gun....
Shannon Nunn , I disagree. Forester makes Great dies for the average shooter. Just don’t use the expander ball. An if you think some dies are special. You would be mistaken.
Even though I have disagreed with you earlier and even commented, I came around to full length sizing all my brass now and annealing every 3-4 firings depending on caliber. I agree that consistency is king. Saving primer pockets is good too, its a shame to discard brass especially in costly calibers.
Never had any of these problems with my neck sizing Must be doing something right. Fact ever rifle I neck size always got better groups then full sized.
I really think what a ton of people miss is that EVERY rifle is different and you DO NOT have to have uber expensive dies to make this happen. High Quality FL sizing will get this done to some extent size it to YOUR fired chamber minus 2 thou. They would be much better off with a neck bushing FL sizer though. Until people understand how to shoulder bump, they typically size to cam over. They are severely overworking the brass and it will not last. I too was brought up old school BR loading 30 years ago. Everyone was neck sizing. It wasn't till I started F-class that I learned how much better shoulder bump works. I use this method on all my rifles regardless of die. I do own Whidden dies for a handful of chamberings and will get some from you shortly. It is hard to swallow that price tag on every chambering but for my custom guns I can justify it. It is however sad to see all my neck sizing dies gathering dust :)
Eric, thanks for the information, I’m old school and neck sized because it was purportedly improving accuracy. Obviously that’s not the case or not worth the downsides to the problems it can create. I do have a question thought for those of us who reload for 300 Blackout and the Ugalde family of cartridges. I would think neck sizing would still be recommended for these shallow hulders to prevent crushing them?
I anneal every firing with all my brass. With my 5 300 blackouts save one, I only Fl size and there is almost no perceptible stretch. I have some brass that have been fired too many times to count. My 14' contender is a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter as a handgun at 100 yards. The MGM barrel and dies have a bit to do with that. I literally have 50 lapua cases dedicated to that rig and that is the only brass it has shot since I got the barrel. Way too many to count on reloads on that set of cases.
DO NOT FULL LENGTH RESIZE your brass unless your magazine feed and action are difficult. No body I know full length resizes unless they have feed or ejection issues. Even with over book loads, as long as the base of the cartridge or primer are not showing excessive pressure. I have NEVER had even a heavy bolt lift. 300 and 7MM mag. I stay out of that pressure zone.You may have to trim the necks and eventually anneal the necks but full length resizing does not prevent this mechanical effect. Brass is a linearly elastic material. It has an endurance limit and will fatigue. The base of the case is (usually) harder for increased strength. So when you do anneal ( plenty of info on how to do this right) you only anneal the neck and shoulder. The more you work the case 1) the more it work hardens and 2) therefore the sooner it fatigues and fails. Using a shoulder die may be helpful too. But DON'T FULL LENGTH resize. I do not want energy going into re-expanding the case time and time again The only gun I have to full length on is a 7X57 MarkII long action Model 98 Swedish Mauser.
I agree with you for one reason that forcing the bolt closed shit it clamping down and causing huge income nsistancy in the clamping force of the brass to the bullet
I've been collet neck-sizing for two years now and body sizing -1 to -2 thou every time. I also anneal every firing. I have never split a neck, and my primer pockets loosened after about 8 firings anyway so brass life is not a factor. I'm all for full-length sizing, although I don't use a FL die with expander, as the expander ball undoes your carefully-measured bump and messes up your concentricity. I'm admittedly new to long range, just having had access to 1k in the last year, and finally took my .308 Tikka T3x to 1K last weekend using a Lee collet neck sizer and Redding body die, Lapua LP brass, IMR4064, Berger 185 Hybrid Target bullets, seated long .015 from lands, got 3 shots inside 4 inches in variable wind. Velocity was 2650, SD of 1 and ES of 3 for 5 shots. For a new guy, this was quite the accomplishment. (I had been drilling the 1k with 6.5CM and 338LM consistently, but doing it with .308 was icing on the cake) I just stumbled on your channel and am glad that I've been FL sizing all my brass (properly) for 3 years now. I own a grand's worth of Redding micrometer bushing dies that don't get used anymore. Thanks for your channel, I'm subscribing and hope to learn more.
A few thoughts on this subject- as I have tried both methods. Load moderate loads- not hot, neck size and shoulder bump as needed. But even with stout loads in my 6mm ackley I have been able to neck size, on the 5th reload of this batch or brass with no noticeable difference in bolt closure. Im sure that forbsome who shoot competition and run hot loads they may have more issues in this area. The one other thing I would like to mention- small base Dies are intended for semi auto/lever action and pump guns that do not have the camming effect of. Bolt gun to chamber and eject rounds.I enjoy your channel Erik- keep up the good vids, this is only my experience, everyone has their own experience and as Erik did it is worth trying before you knock it.
My eyebrows went way up when he made the comment about small base dies, too. Most lever, semi-auto, or pump guns will work with SAAMI sized full length loads, but the small base dies exist for those that somehow don't cope well, probably guns of lower quality.
I’m not sure I agree with you on this one. I’ve done it both ways and I can consistently get better groups when I neck size. I do use a Redding shoulder die to slightly bump the shoulders back by .001-.002 so my boot closes nice.
Vaughn Precision if you are bumping the shoulder, then you are doing what I suggested. Except for the fact that you are not sizing the base, which will cause extraction issues down the road.
Of course you get better performance with just neck sizing. This is because except for the neck, which is going to expand anyway, the rest of the case absorbs NO ENERGY in expanding. Some guns feed better with full length because there is more clearance. Have a MkII Swedish Mauser 98 in 7X57 which needs FL. And FL will not feed worse than NS. And in the field you do not want a feeding jam for the follow up shot.
Erik, What you said about this process really struck me. I think I struggled, for years, on reloading(full length to the stop!) my .308 brass! I never thought I could go part way'1 'someone at Redding mentioned it when I caught onto neck-sizing. She mentioned that, about every five rounds, the brass would get tight and I should use a body-die, which she sold me. Years go by and I have acquired a used 30-06, from an estate sale. I had a bucket of brass for 30-06 so I got out my RCBS standard(full-length) die-set and went to resize and thought about what you said about putting the round into the breech and closing the bolt. "When the bolt closes easily, you're done!" You said. I got out a case gauge and went through twenty fice rounds. They were all perfect except five, which stuck out at the base (too little headspace?). I took one of them and, eventually, all five and they were all really tight! I put the round in the shell holder and brought the die down to where the die hit the shoulder . Then I backed it off and screwed the die in a quarter of a turn. It was a little better so I screwed the die down another 1/4-turn and it was perfect! What was new and amazing to me was how the little nudging I gave the shoulder was so easy, compared to SAAMI resizing! Now I need to develop some test-loads; then do a seating ladder. Thanks!
I neck size, don't have bolt issues, never trim,long case life. That's what I do and will keep doing. All you are doing is keeping the shoulder back each time you size, whether it needs it or not. You are also work hardening the whole case not just the neck. Not telling you what to do just what I do. Different strokes as they say.
exactly! The only thing i don't necksize is 308 for the AR10, for this i use smallbase dies to undersize the brass slightly for better funktion. But bolt guns, necksize all the time. I've got 8 times necksize-reloaded 338 lapua brass here, runs like a charme.
I respect your opinion but disagree as I'm sure many others do as well. I am currently handloading 7mm Dakota in a custom build and a .313 neck considered tight since SAAMI is .315. Five firings, no case growth, no bumping yet and consistent .002 tension using the Lee collet die. You don't mention any specific dies, only that you are against neck sizing and all about FL only everytime which is guaranteed to wear out the brass excessively in short order, and @$1.73 ea. for Dakota brass I'm definitely not going to FL. The Lee collet die has been around for a long time I wish I would have started using them long ago instead of buying more expensive SAAMI spec and custom-made dies over the past thirty years. To each, their own I guess, but I know what works best for me.
I started reloading years ago because I got fed up with crappy results from factory ammo, especially from the big R company. I was taught old school reloading, fire form your brass, neck size only and back off the lands slightly. Today I hear of better way to get better results! Sign me up! I have a 270 wsm and a 7mm08 that I am going to try your method on. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks. For the rest of you who prefer to do it the other way, go for it! This isn't a life threatening decision, just another man's experience. I would imagine the whiners and complainers still like their flip phones too! Great job on your video friend!
after neck sizing for close to 30 years i just ordered a whidden FL click ajustable bushing sizer. i will be FL sizing 2 to 3 thousands depending on what my rifle likes I use to think a simi firm bolt drop was great for cartridge to bore alinement.
I actually stopped neck sizing before I watched this and have to agree. After a few firings with neck sizing only my rounds did not want to chamber. Then you’re stuck having to full length size all over again. Doesnt make sense. Full length size with redding competition shell holders to control shoulder bump is what I do now and shooting one ragged hole. I also had a chance to meet Erik at the Lone Survivor PRS Benefit Match in Texas. One of the nicest guys you’ll ever meet and Team Lapua should be proud to have him on board. 👍
I agree 100-% the best for accuracy and long brass life is full length sizing every time and annealing necks every third firing. If your die/chamber combo sizes the case to much you need to hone the sizing die so you are not work hardening the brass too much. The ideal setup sizes the base just above the web about .001" and about .003-4" at the body shoulder junction and the neck about .002" there will be minimal resistance when you pull the expander through the neck and neck concentricity will be very uniform.if you don't have chamber pressure to high you'll get 20 or more firings out a good quality case.that has been my experience in 15 years of precission reloading
Anneal every time for consistent neck tension. Every 3 times and you change the neck tension as the brass hardens. And your bumping the shoulders back (aka partial full length sizing) not full length sizing. There is a big difference. Though you describe the process right. Full length sizing push the shoulders back too far and shorten brass life.
@@johannesvanhoek9080 It's not opinion, you're just wrong. There is no competition shooter in the entire United States that neck sizes. If you did you will be the odd man out and subject of a lot of humiliation. Neck sizing is stupid, sorry.
I tend to agree with Erik, everytime you fire your brass it grows a tiny bit more thus increasing it's internal volume. If you want constancy, FL size your brass and everytime you fire it you've removed one more variable. If you neck size only sooner or later you're going to have to FL anyway, then it's back to square one............But to each their own, I've tried it both ways and now no longer neck size only, I use a combination of FL/shoulder bump Die and a NK sizing Die. But hey!, it's all part of the fun of reloading, do what works for you...
