The work rate era is a great point. I remember as a kid absolutely hating Ivory in Right To Censor for injuring Chyna and when she came back and crushed her at WM, it was a lot more satisfying than a great looking acrobatic match. The summer of Punk is also the thing that got me back into wrestling because the narrative was fantastic. Definitely feel Maffew has a point there.
The work rate era is awesome. I got into wrestling because of the action, not really the storylines or the fan interaction. I used to buy VCDs of old wrestling collections the WWE used to sell and I couldn't get through the matches from the 80s. I fell asleep watching Hogan vs Andre and I just let LOD matches play in the background while I was playing with my legos. Come on be honest, Prince Ameen match over a Will Ospreay match? I was there in the crowd for the IWGP Jr Heavyweight title match and that crowd was hot.
CodeAtlas I like a combo of the 2 myself but high octane matches can become very easily mundane if the same thing is repeated over and over again. When talking about older stuff you have to remember you don't really get a feel for the storyline by watching old clips so the story vs work rate debate is null and void.
Andrew Yates Goldberg vs Lesnar, I watched that through and through from unforgiven to WM 20, thinking it was real hahaha. It was awful and I watched it with my parents! They storytold the shit out of that thing leading up to WM and this is a time when Brock spoke.
My biggest pet peeve is cutting to the crowd. I don't give a shit what people are doing in the audience, specially when it's outed that you've edited reactions later on in replays.
I wish. I'm sure they'd prefer to be reimbursed for having to explain to their friends how the clip on Raw of them cheering for Braun somehow got edited into a John Cena Raw 'return' clip on Smackdown.
I am with Maffew when it comes to characters. My favorite wrestlers were/are great characters. Macho, Piper, Warrior, etc made me love wrestling because of the personalities they formed over time.
Also the work rate thing, is what I've been saying. Completely fucking agree. There's no charters in wrestling anymore, why do you broken Matt Hardy was so popular because he was a character.
I've still yet to understand this argument. There are characters all over wrestling. Having a personality that a normal human would have is still a personality and often contrasts well with a wrestler with an over the top personality. Also I dunno about you guys but Velveteen Dream, Okada, Suzuki, Naito, and Sanity are all good characters that are all ignored for the sake of this specific kind of complaint. characters and stories evolve and just because they're different doesn't mean they're not there.
Starson It's more about the story or narrative than the characters themselves. I used the Right To Censor vs Chyna storyline as an example of how they executed it gave you a great finale story wise over just having high octane matches.
Yeah I will say that there aren't as many stories (or at least good stories.) But I think the characters at a high level are there. Will Ospreay has been a part of a couple of good (albeit simple) stories in a couple of promotions but I think a lot of fans and maybe even some promoters just see him as an athletic flippy guy and don't bother giving him any compelling stories.
I can't believe I'm bringing up TNA as an example of a great match, but my favorite tag team cage match is the Six Sides of Steel Match between Triple X (Daniels and Skipper) vs. America's Most Wanted. The psychology, moves, and the long-term story of the teams made it a special match. Plus, both teams actually use the cage in the match! As a whole, though, cage matches are now where they belong.
About atomic drop, it is designed to hit the tailbone. and i think it is no a DQ even if bollocks get hit because i think technically your leg is getting hit by balls because he is droping down on your knee. it is just like throwing someone to the steel steps. you can hit the steps with a wrestler but you can not hit the wrestler with stairs. you can hit a knee with balls but you can not knee someone in the balls. because the balls are moving you are technically hitting someones knee with your balls. or maybe because this is wrestling and most of the things are silly and we should'n look into things that hard IDK
It's really nice to see Ross having more screen time outside of WTF. Reactions, the podcast and now hosting this, he's just himself and it's really refreshing to see.
I don't think he's a full fledged "member" like Jack or Ross or Adam. He's probably going to be a reoccurring character rather than a main character. I think he's been fun on here and as long as Botchamania doesn't die, I'm fine with this.
+JustAnotherWebSeries yeah! If you hoof a guy in the bollocks it’s a straight up dq but intentionally crotch him on the rope/turnbuckle or atomic drop? No problem! Surely these would all hurt too?
Then again, should dropping a guy groin first into the ropes warrant an automatic DQ? With a Manhattan Drop you don't strike the testicules either you let gravity do the work, know what I mean? That's why it's not a DQ.
Aron Smith the Jeff Hardy leg drop targets the lower abdomen area as JR would have you believe back in the day! Yeah, right! That's pretty much a straight low blow and should be a DQ.
Maybe it's because it's the opponent's body is in motion? It's the same principle as "it's ok to smack an opponent's head into a ringpost, but not ok to swing a chair into an opponent's head." The force is applied to the opponent's mass, rather than the object striking it.
Worked a show with Pronce Ameen, he was so good at working a crowd into hating him in less than 5 jinutes, the crowd went crazy for his opponent even though they had no idea who he was. Legend
Cage matches from back in the day we’re the shit. The rivalry and hatred was so great that they needed a cage to contain themselves in the ring. Get rid of the door and play a cage match with that angle, or the sneaky heel escaping from every match so he cannot escape and they would be good again
well done guys... the bit about wrestling fans was particularly good given who was speaking... twice in the last year I've just turned off a WWE PPV & just put something else on that gave me some joy & as an older fan I had to remind myself that this wasn't a PPV someone shelled major money for me to see nor did i have to take the VHS back to Blockbuster... it will be there on the network safe and sound go ahead and watch some NJPW or a documentary about the Irish Mob
To touch on the first point about the inverted atomic drop, it's not considere da DQ because the groin is striking the thigh rather than the thigh striking the groin. Basically it's the following; smashing your head into the steps isn't a DQ, but smashing the steps into your head is a DQ.
for a second the title made me think Cultaholic was gonna send Maffew straight to hell and this was gonna be an anti Botchamania vid.. had me confused there:)
Obviously Dougal and Jack will be barred from ringside and Bishop Brennan will cash in right at the tail end of the match. I really enjoyed this, keep 'em coming :)
The biggest problem with cage matches is that they seem to have forgotten why it exists. The point of a cage match is one guy trying to avoid having a match by escaping, and the other guy trying to kick his ass. Otherwise the cage match should really just be a straight race to the floor with any wrestling being completely superfluous. To determine if s cage match was used well, see if the face won by escaping. If he did, it wasn't used well. If the face wins, he should always win by pin or submission. Preferably pin. Causing the opponent so much pain that they give up is supposed to be a heel thing
My old neighbor looks just like a pug. His lawyer wife divorced him and she got both the pugs and the house. He visits every weekend but has to wait in the driveway to meet them.
I read somewhere that the kayfabe reason that the reason an atomic drop is legal is that technically the offensive wrestler is not striking his opponent in the cock but rather dropping them on it, in the same way that in ice hockey you're not allowed to kick the puck into the net, but if the puck deflects off your skate with no kicking movement it's perfectly legal, or (I don't really watch soccer/football so I don't know how accurate this is, the place I read the exlanation used this analogy) if the ball hits your arm in soccer/football without you intentionally sticking your arm out to knock it down or away it's not a hand ball.
The thing that i hate most about wrestling, is that in wwe, the titantron shows replays, so why the fuck when there is a dirty finish, does the ref just not look at the tron and reverse the decision? Just doesn't make sense
You guys should get Squared Circle Gazette panelists if you keep doing this and run out of people. Absolutely brilliant, funny and some are actually workers so there's a good twist. Or fly me out to the UK, I've been wanting to work for you since launch! Haha
The workrate era is a good argument, but the problem is that different crowds will want different things, and the majority want good characters which is rarely conceived, and a level of wrestling to match, which is much more common. Things like Gargano/Almas is a shining example of the workrate era at its finest as it told a compelling story, while still being an amazing match.
M Wadud I think he's like a reoccurring character like Sandy or Mr Krabs on Spongebob. They're great, they're there often, but they're not the main characters.
The inverted atomic drop can hit tailbone only and not hit the bollocks...unless you "accidentally" put the knee too forward. Ref could technically ignore that as an accident... Manhattan Drop however? Instant confusion over that :/
Wrestling fans taking pokes at Dota players for being basement dwellers is a risky game lads. Especially from you Maff'. Great show though, like the idea. Like the long form content. Maybe do a few things different to 101 though ;)
To add on to maffews argument for characters; the Fashion police are a prime example as to how good character work can make ok matches so much more fun.
Nice, fresh idea and I think Ross does his job of bouncing off the guest nicely... Looking forward to who else you guys get. If you can work out a skype thing, Steve and Larson would be awesome on this type of format.
I feel like they did a fairly good job during the Seth/HHH feud of establishing that HHH had a spilt personality between his destroyer and creator personas. It's not the best writing excuse ever but it's better than nothing - AKA Steph.
Loved the concept. This is great and all. My only problem is the guys go off topic way too often. You probably even forget the point by the time they get back on topic.
I think the atomic drop can be made to look more accidental with any wrestler lifting their opponent struggling in doing so and then when they can't lift them anymore they have to hit a atomic drop when they drop them.
