Stranger Things, Belligerent Romance, and the Danger of Nostalgia 

Man, I felt so bad after s2 for distrusting Bob's kindness. He seemed to be "too good to be true" when in reality he was just a decent human being. We're so used to disfunctional relationships that loving ones are received with skepticism. Now I want Bob back.

Your point about male characters so often getting "redeemed" by dying in a self-sacrificing way makes me wonder if we're all so obsessed with Prince Zuko's redemption arc because he actually has to Do The Work.

I always thought that Bob was supposed to be the huge wet blanket boyfriend who the audience would hate on the grounds of being boring. Unfortunately for the Duffers, Sean Astin is just too damn lovable and charismatic that we all liked him anyway.

Heroic Sacrifice: Dying Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry.

And Joyce was the victim of a previous abusive husband too.... yay.

Hopper’s shift in characterization honestly.......pissed me off. He was a damaged man with a dark history who learned to be better. Then immediately forgot. So very rarely do we see healthy, heartfelt father/daughter relationships portrayed on screen. Messing this one up was a travesty.

I was disgusted by the show trying to push this "relationship" at us. Hopper was acting *entirely* too entitled towards a woman who just watched her wonderful, kind, sensitive boyfriend being torn to pieces before her. And did the writers forget that Joyce already got out of a relationship with a belligerent abusive alcoholic? What kind of sick idea is it for her to end up with another one? The entire season left a bad taste in my mouth.

The "don't date my daughter" bullshit should have been revealed for what it was - Hop feeling the pain of time fracturing his father/daughter relationship with El, when it's only just begun to stabilize. Hopper's arc should have included El standing to him, forcing Hop to have a meaningful conversation with her. That would have deconstructed a sexist trope beautifully, without feeling forced. Instead, they treated Hop's beef with Mike as valid, and threw in his true feelings about El as an afterthought in the last five minutes of the show.

Me to Hopper for all of Season 3: "You're not Bob! You'll never be Bob!!!!"

I liked season three, but Hopper's character change really didn't sit well with me. He was just so angry all the time and his tough but nurturing personality with El in the second season was completely out the window. It absolutely sucks that Eleven can't have a good father figure. All she gets is aggression and abuse.

"I'll just say that selfless acts are not necessarily a negative thing, but for troubled male characters... the grand heroic death is often a written to be a shortcut to redemption. And a shortcut that doesn't require men to actually do the slow painful work of personal transformation." This thing right here, so well articulated. Thank you!

What do you guys think of Steve's arch? He reacted maturely to Nancy leaving him, he started being kind towards Dustin, and he was supportive when Robin came out to him. All of which makes what they did to Hopper's character even more disappointing.

But the 80s were amazing if you just ignore the reality of them......

Literally this. In that scene when he was drunk and barged in on Max and Eleven, I was genuinely scared to think what he would've done if Mike was actually there! All of Joyce and Hoppers chemistry came from mutual respect, comfort and shared grief, not 'bickering'. It seemed like all of these complex characters were more like cartoon-like caricatures this season

Alexei and Bob: two male characters that were killed off for shock value for failing to conform to strict ideas of masculinity

the fact that Joyce was dating a guy who was actually loving and ends up with the other guy is depressing

Season 3 bothered me for a lot of reasons, this among them. For me the worst moment was when the Russians were getting shot up; Stranger things 1 & 2 always seemed to treat human life with a certain bit of respect. Death happened to 'bad' characters, but it was never a footnote. When Hopper killed several Russians, there wasn't either sadness or justice, they just didn't matter enough for the show to note that murder beyond a one liner. Even the deaths of minor characters, such as unnamed scientists had previously felt at least somewhat regrettable before.

"Guys like Hopper don't need a relationship, they need therapy" GO OFF

Seen Hopper threatening a boy who trusted him without any remorse was really hard to watch.

I completely forgot that Hopper had that talk with El where he admitted that his fear manifests as anger and he makes bad decisions but he's trying. They did all that development, and then immediately fell onto the "dad is possessive of his teenage daughter's virginity so he wants to kill her boyfriend and sabotage her perfectly normal relationship" trope

I honestly wish Bob had stuck around. It genuinely felt like they killed him off just to traumatize Joyce and to push her and Hopper together. And especially after seeing season three, I feel more justified in thinking this.

Wow, his behavior is horrible.... They destroyed his character

Season 2 Hopper: Hugs Mike even when Mike is screaming and crying and beating on him over keeping Eleven's fate a secret. Season 3 Hopper: I could kill Mike, I'm the Chief of Police, I could cover it up. On a lesser note, how do you go through the events of Seasons 1 and 2 and not think "OH SHIT IT'S THE UPSIDE DOWN" when magnets fall off the fridge and rats start exploding. Why did Hopper and Jonathan not believe Joyce and Nancy's intuition? (I know why, but still.) Bob deserved better. Joyce deserved better. Season 1-2 Hopper deserved better. I know I shouldn't be surprised that Stranger Things has gotten swept up in its own nostalgia, but it's weird to me that a series that prided itself on fighting bullies and condemning toxic parents/lovers has turned a lot of its main characters into bullies and toxic individuals (and justifying it with "redemption"). Season 2 Max was ready to castrate her step-brother for trying to beat up Lucas, but season 3 has the racist, sexist, homophobic Billy die a heroic death with the sister he abused mourning him, all because "his father beat him" and "he misses his mom."

Hopper treating Eleven like his property drove me facking crazy! Also a rage filled man who can't handle being rejected by the woman he has a crush on...is a theme in a lot of True Crime shows where women get murdered by men. It's honestly terrifying.

What hurts the most is that Stranger Things has been SO good with subverting toxic male tropes from jock Steve become a mom and learning to not need a romantic relationshio to gentle, soft Bob making the heroic sacrifice and showing his bravery, to early Hopper slowly developing respectful relationships with women. Then season 3 is like "enjoy this cartoon character throwing a fit because females are acting like he wants them too"

The fact that he hated Mike so much simply because his daughter was in a relationship with him pissed me off to no end. I kept having to pause and complain about it to my boyfriend. I take such issue with this concept of fathers having ownership over their daughters' bodies, and the fact that it was played off as normal really turned me off to his character this season. I personally haven't come across criticisms related to his character in S3 before this video, so it was refreshing to see someone who had a similar view!

As a big Hopper fan, I was mortified by his character change in season 3. His "papa bear" vibe was completly gone, leaving only a huge screaming, drinking, terrifying man. I really felt like he was a completly different character, and I love how you always put words on these things we see, that make us uneasy, but can't really pinpoint. Amazing work as always, thank you for this.

I never thought Bob was secretly a bad guy, but I vividly remember while watching him and Joyce talk in front of the car I was thinking "oh this poor sweet man is going to die this season."

S3 really turned my favorite character into my least, exactly because of this.

I couldn't stand how Joyce was treated by Hopper this most recent season. Her completely valid feelings (which turned out to be correct once again) were downplayed and mocked. She's gone through so much and Hopper has too but instead of continuing a good character arc and maturing relationship between the two, the Duffer brothers just seemed to stop caring. I say this all especially because they did seem to learn about questioning the old tropes. In season 2 when El first saw Max, she immediately hated her. There would be no reason for this outside the old catfighting over a man trope. Even when the two finally met, El still hated her. A number of people complained about this, saying that there would be no reason for El to hate Max and there were so little female character interactions on the show as it was that they shouldn't have them hate each other. Come season 3 and they had a complete 180, El and Max bond a lot as friends and Max teaches El a lot about her own autonomy. This was fantastic to see, and makes Hopper's transformation all the more disheartening. I'm excited to see a video about the heroic sacrifice because Billy's didn't impress me at all and I've had to badly explain why to a number of people, having a good video to link to would be great.

A guy once tried that “totally not a date” thing and harassed me when I fell for it, I have no clue why some people think that’s a good and not slimy way to ask someone out.

What bothered me the most was that I was super there for just a good, loving platonic relationship with Hopper and Joyce. Like, shared trauma bringing them together just as ya know, friends. I really thought that was the direction where they were going, and even if it meant Hopper being rejected a few times, I really wanted Joyce to commit to not wanting a romantic relationship with Hopper, and Hopper (as a archetypal tough guy man) having to come to terms with that, and again growing in the way he did in seasons 1+2 to just treat Joyce with respect and love her in the way you’d love a best friend. Epically seeing as Hollywood seems to think that a man and a woman just cannot he friends without at least some dynamic of sexual tension

I felt like I was the only one annoyed by Hopper this season, glad to see someone else share my views

One thing I don’t understand is why men and masculine types in media are always written to have a “strong” presence, be DTF or show little emotion other than anger! Also has anyone ever noticed how men who are written to be “weak” often have higher, softer voices and rounder body types than men who don’t?

I found Hopper's change of character really jarring because there was no inciting incident. And calling their bickering "sexual tension" came out of nowhere for me too. Thank you for putting my unease into words.

Your commentary on Bob really hit the nail on the head for how I felt watching season 3. Hopper's "move on" comment made me uncomfortable, primarily because Joyce is still recovering from Bob's death- a man she loved so much she was ready to drop life in Hawkins to move with him elsewhere. A good, loving relationship like that isn't one you choose to move on from (esp when it ends with one person's death) and to hear Hopper be so dismissive of Joyce's feelings was so off-putting. Esp from a character who has had his own relationship trauma (i.e. the deaths of this wife and daughter). Like, no one was telling him to "move on" in the first two seasons. Tl;dr I will never be over Bob and Joyce won't either. Hopper's behaviour is so out of line with how Bob treated Joyce and we as an audience shouldn't be expected to see Hopper as a replacement for someone Joyce is "hung up on". Dude died right in front of her Hop. Leave her alone

It's so crazy how even being well educated on red flags for abuse, and about toxic masculinity tropes, a part of me was still trying to interpret Hopper and Joyce's dynamic in season 3 as the cliche bickering romance, all because I was so used to it. Thank you for detailing exactly what had changed in Hopper's character.

I know people always say "it's just a show" but I disagree with that. It's not just a show. Whether folk know it or not, we subconsciously learn and soak in a lot from media. Kids even more so.

It wasnt just Hopper either, even though his was clearly the most damaged shift in character. Nearly every character got pigeonholed into some bad romance cliche and both parties of every couple was ruined for it. And they didnt even gain any chemistry for everything they sacrificed just to have their shallow romances set up.

Another thing that just doesn't sit well with me is that I think Stranger Things did such a good job portraying the harmfulness of emotional abuse by showing its effects in Billy, showed us a relationship of two damaged people trying to make it work with Nancy and Jonathan, and gave us the previously bull-headed male character, Steve, learning to better handle his feelings/gain more maturity by helping kids deal with their problems. The show was doing sooo well compared to other media when it came to these things. And then there was season 3 Hopper. It's jarring how they characterized him, compared to the other types of masculinity they'd already given us.

I could tell Hopper felt "off" in season 3, but I couldn't put it into words why. This hits it right on the nose.

"what they need is therapy" that legit made me tear up - thank you so much for clarifying this shit! It's bothering me a lot in many shows or movies, so just thank you!

Your edit of Joyce watching one of the inspirations for the violent romance trope she's involved in is very impactful. Media isn't just eacapist fantasy. People are watching this stuff and relating it to their life.

Hopper didn't actually bother me season 3 and I couldn't understand why everyone was so upset that he'd changed. To me he hadn't changed that much. And then during the time I was watching this video I realised I just wasn't paying attention when Hopper's bits were on because I didn't care about that bit of the story. And the fact that this behaviour didn't peak my interest also means that this type of behaviour is not 'normal' for me but that I'm at least used to seeing it, which is fucked up. As usual thank you so much for pointing out the things I didn't see.

hopper lost all of his emotional intellect and empathy in season 3, I hate how they twisted the character into this abusive man. joyce and el deserved so much better :( I hope season 4 has him go to therapy and process this shit if he is still alive

God I miss Bob, killed off for Hop×Joyce smh

I had legit forgotten about how nuanced season 1 Hopper was and felt shocked seeing the scenes with him being all calm, emotionally open and soft-hearted. Goddammit!

What's really annoying to me is that they turned Hopper's character into someone really unlikable, and that results in his death not having as big an impact.

*im so glad hoppers complete personality change is being addressed cause it was driving me crazy*

Finally, a Pop Culture Detective upload. Now I can sleep peacefully.

Another thing that massively bothered me in S3 was the Red Scare mania. It felt more bizarre and inflammatory than nostalgic

"When media makers rely so uncritically on nostalgia for inspiration, it prevents them from imagining new possibilities for male characters." This channel is so good, and this one sentence is so important to me. Even taking out the last phrase of "for male characters," that statement is just so completely true and relevant with media right now.

Funny they wrote him like this, when the actor went crazy on the “patriarchy of Hollywood” rant during that awards ceremony.

The only in-character moment for Hopper was his letter. That is how I choose to remember him.

And what about nostalgia for hate entire countries and cultures as Russia for example... sometimes I feel afraid how we still reforced the idea of hate countries for wars of the past. Is and easy way to write conflicts.. I think.

I hate it so much when writers can't portray healthy relationships in an interesting way, so they deliberately mess them up.

i love stranger things but yeah i agree. Hopper was not ready to be in a relationship, i dont know why they didnt continue Hopper's emotional growth from S2

this season honestly made me feel so uncomfortable because hopper reminded me a lot of my abusive dad :(

The worst change, in my opinion, is that he stops believing in Joyce. She has proven time and time again that her suspicions are correct, and he was always in her corner even if he didn't completely believe the things she was saying. Now he throws it back in her face and tells her she's making it up because she's too afraid to date him. He doesn't take her seriously, never listens to her ideas, never offers her any of the support or patience he seemed to have for her in previous seasons, and flat out accuses her of being crazy. After the second season, the audience was left with the idea that he'd always be there for her for whatever she needed. This new version of Hopper, in comparison, seems like such a betrayal.

Yeah. I really felt Hopper was over the top, disturbing, violent, controlling, demeaning etc in this season. It felt very strange to me. The part which really triggered me was his behavior toward Joyce- as if he was ENTITLED to be in a relationship with her. How DARE SHE refuse again and again despite obviously still trying to move on from the man she actually liked and tragically lost. That's what I find scary. Guys who act like they are your friend, will help you and be there for you...but flip a switch if you deny them the possibility of anything beyond a platonic respectful friendship. But I also understood the bickering to be a trope. And I truly hope younger boys or men don't see it as a way of being but rather a dramatic trope that shouldn't be replicated in real life.

Watching this season, I didn't realize what bothered me about it. I think I especially detested the "Red Dawn-esque" portrayal of Soviet-era Russians. It is entrenched in American nationalism and xenophobia, it is just propaganda modernized. It sucked.

14:27 "Authority figures tend to dismiss or downplay the seriousness of emotional abuse. The truth is that psychological, emotional or verbal abuse is just as real and can be just as harmful as physical violence". Never a truer word spoken, THANK YOU.

"Guys like Hopper dont need a relationship. What they need is therapy" "GUYS LIKE HOPPER DONT NEED A RELATIONSHIP. WHAT THEY NEED IS THERAPY " I needed to say it louder for the back

I totally noticed this character shift as well. I didn't like it at all. It was incredible violent and unlikable. I understand paying homage to the 80's action hero, but it seemed way to over the top, instead of a ''lovable'' macho tough guy type, he turned in to a psychotic abuser in need of serious anger management. It was out of character and not enjoyable to watch

Oh my god! OH MY GOD! This is it! This addresses what was wrong with season three that I couldn't explain to other people! I thought I was crazy! I know Hopper was an angry bastard but his character was changed so drastically but because he was still grumpy no one cared. Wow 👍

I never once thought that Bob was secretly bad, and I'm usually really good at catching secret baddies or double agents pretty quickly. Maybe it's because Bob reminds me a lot of my dad and my uncles (his brothers) and how they are with their spouses.

Of course Samwise provides a wholesome side of masculinity...

In season 3, I think it would've been better if Hopper and Joyce were single parents who have a close platonic relationship that has built upon the trauma they have shared. They give each other great advice and it's clear they don't have plans to sleep with each other at all. Turning Hopper into a jealous aggressive twat because Joyce didn't meet him for the date (because she had a legitimate excuse to go to Mr. Clarke's) was ridiculous and led to him feeling defaced from the Hopper of Seasons 1 and 2.

God every scene of this guy in s3 is the most cringeworthy thing imaginable.

As a trans guy, I really couldn't help looking up to martyrs. To me, dying silently for a cause was a perfect bookend for a life. As I aged, I came to realise that my respect for martyrs is a fantasy. The truth is that there is much more strength in living than dying. There are no endings. Life continues and your death becomes nothing as time goes by. There is nothing as powerful as just living, instead of taking the coward's way out and allowing people to falsely label it as heroic.

Another solid video. I found the first episode of this season absolutely jarring. As someone raised by a soft, non-violent, and caring step dad I found so much to love in s2 Hopper only to see cruel reflections of my alcoholic birth father in s3 Hopper. I left the season quite disappointed in what the Duffer brothers did with one of my favourite characters.

The whole super protective dad thing made me so mad because I know so many people that watch stranger things are going to take it as something funny and normal, when it is not.

Everything about hopper’s behavior in this season was completely out of character, which is heartbreaking for me to watch because he is my FAVORITE character in this show! Hopper wouldn’t harass Joyce into dating him- he’s not forward like that and also, like the video says, he’s been super respectful of Joyce and her feelings- he knows he just watch her last boyfriend die. That’s not like him to just move in on her like that. Also, *where* did this hatred for Mike come from!? And this overprotective father syndrome?? It just hurts because it’s literally established in season 3 that they would work things out better. But now he comes home drunk- with his daughter at home!? Who IS this man!?? I will say that season four fixes this a lot. He’s more of the somber, quiet hero we originally knew. As far as I’m concerned- season 3 is a non-canon spin-off

I've had issue with the way the Duffer Brothers write relationships and lean into 80s tropes for their male characters since season One, mainly with Jonathan and Nancy's relationship. The show is so set on that "nice guy misunderstood nerd deserves the nice girl more than the mean angry jock" because thats The 80s Way Of Doing it, and it feels so forced. In season one we see Jonathan take photos of Nancy changing without her knowing, use her fear of ending up like her mother in an unhappy marriage married fresh out of high school against her after she confides in him saying she'll end up like that if she stays with Steve instead of him, and at first I held out hope that it was all just commentary on those type of "I'm a Nice Guy trust me" types of nerdy guys since the season ended with her and Steve being together, but then in Season Two the two of them go to a middle aged man's house, get drunk and then hook up (while that middle aged man is very weirdly invested in these high schoolers having sex in his house that night, why fans find Murray's bizarre recurring writing of popping up to insist to characters have sex and then leaving endearing I'll never understand), and now Season 3 we see them in a relationship that consists of Jonathan downplaying her issues and experiences with sexism because "well I'M poor so I probably have it worse get over it", not believing her on anything and then when she ends up being right after their big fight he just tells her not to get a big head and she apologizes, and we never see them do anything, sweet? or even happy together? But it persists that we're supposed to be rooting for this. It's the same with whenever they try to include romance with the younger kids, we just get Max and Lucas having an angry back and forth and El coming out of an underground bunker fresh full of western beauty standards to hold herself to and jealousy over any girls talking to Mike. At this point I just wish they'd stop trying to write romance so much in the show, all the other writing is great but when it comes to that they usually just leave me feeling uncomfortable. These archetypes may have been common in the 80s, but they persisted, and they're harmful, and we've only just started to shake them from popular media. There's no need to keep them going for nostalgia.

Season 3 really isn’t great overall anyway. It was very repetitive and follows the same formula as the last two seasons. The minute I started watching season 3, I knew there was something off about Hopper. Even him brutally torturing the mayor or governor, whatever he was, was disturbing and it was played for laughs. That was so weird to me. The writing for Hopper this season was disturbing and a reminder of how old tropes are old for a reason. They don’t need to be recreated and praised in today’s pop culture.

It was horrify for me. Father, grandfather, many relationships acted like this. More Horrifying than the fictional monster. The real monster was too real.

So that's why I wasn't feeling this latest season... finished the first episode and just couldn't return.

gosh you just made me miss Bob so much

Hopper’s obsession with becoming the most important man in Eleven’s life, when Mike was her first -gave the creepiest vibes. Controlling, domineering, intentionally attempting to force daddy issues onto her. Thank you for including the direct comparison to Bob, I quite physically shed a tear. Maybe the reaction will push the Duffer Bros to reshape Hopper’s arc next season. We all know he’s not dead although it was a serious character assassination.

Hey! Bob Newby got them out of Hawkins Lab when there were Demadogs EVERYWHERE! Hopper asked if he could learn the necessary code and Bob said "Oh sure! Why don't I just teach you a little French while I'm at it!" His skill set was validated! He had what it took! I love Bob Newby, Superhero!

I felt like this most recent season was weaker but I didn't know why. Thanks for fleshing that out for me.

Fandoms defending stuff no matter how negative is what kills me about tv shows.

The writing team of Stranger Things absolutely needs to see this

Please also cover Billy's sacrifice if you do a video about toxic characters having a redemption arc by one act of sacrifice.

I knew I didnt like Hopper in S3 but couldnt quite explain why Thanks for explaining it so well!

I still find The Iron Giant as the piece of pop culture that is the most critical of his nostalgia (as a movie of the 90's telling about the paranoia of Cold War in the 60/50's).

Why _is_ open hostility treated as a form of sexual tension, anyways? It's so bad that many people treat two characters who don't like each other but don't actively hate each other as their OTP. I just don't get the appeal.

As someone from an abusive home I don't understand love/hate romance at all. I legit freeze up whenever people start yelling at each other and when they start dating/kissing I'm like ?????

*Finally, someone who speaks out on this matter.* I think many audiences like Hopper in the previous seasons because he has a calm personality as if he's been through it all from being a sheriff (or from the army, we never know), and therefore is capable of making rational judgments based on past experiences. Now SS3 Jim is just this very aggressive, impatient and irrational person who always claim to know it all and thinks force can solve every problem. But then the movie killed him off and we are emotionally manipulated to feel as if it is US that were wrong for hating him at the beginning??

Thank you! I thought I was the only one surprised and disappointed by Hopper's character doing an 180

It's kind of disappointing, especially since I've met David Harbour and he's such a sweet guy.

I didn't see his behavior as sexual tension at all. So at the end when they all the sudden got together I was like "wait... what?" . I had no idea what the writers were doing because I don't see the behavior he exhibited this season as anything more than annoying toxic masculinity. It actually pissed me of when they got together at the end.

Yes! This is exactly how I feel. I LOVE Stranger Things (S1&S2). I’ve watched it multiple times. But they totally destroyed Hopper this season. Complete 180 from his character’s trajectory in S1/S2. I was so pissed off I was actually happy when he died. Then, it was revealed he only “died” and I got pissed again. Unless they show him in S4 realizing his S3 behaviour was terrible, the show won’t be worth watching for me anymore. I’ll stick with rewatching S1&S2 only. When Bob died in S2, I was also pissed off, but thought it could make for interesting PTSD drama for Joyce in S3. I was hoping Hop would be sensitive and help her get through it. I figured they would eventually become a couple, but only in S4 and more or less only when Hop became as caring and sensitive as Bob. Instead, she gets one scene of missing Bob and a couple of nods to him here and there in S3, then we move on to the disgusting version of Hop. Pathetic. I was also slightly hoping they would ultimately critique the trope, but like you said, they doubled down in the last episode of S3. What makes all of this worse is how many people say they like Angry Hop even more than previous Flawed But Growing Hop. That includes David Harbour, the actor who plays him. Grrr. The one thing I hadn’t picked up on was the connection to 80s tropes (Magnum PI, etc), since I’m too young to be familiar with those movies. But that makes sense, in retrospect. I don’t have any 80s nostalgia (I like the show on its own merit), but you’re right they pulling from the past can be dangerous in the way you describe.

you hit the nail on the head!! Hopper was my favorite, but now I can't stand him. Super jealous, and abusive. They destroyed his character.

Until last moment I was sure there was something wrong with Bob, he was just too nice and perfect and it so difficult to not be suspicious that he has some dark intentions. Which is a horrible thing because it was the kind of relationship is just normal and healthy and we should see it like this.

I can't lie, lots of people said season 3 was excellent. I totally disagreed. I thought season 2 was way better. This continued to confirm that feeling.

Justice for Bob. Hopper was the worst in season 3. I was so disappointed in his characterisation. An abusive alcoholic is not cute.

Bob was the best, I’ve had people say “but hopper is a catch”. Nah man, BOB was a catch!

they also,, completely lost shift in the general plot. the last two seasons were focused merely on will. he wasn't the *main* character, but he was a very, very important character. i get that they wanted to shift the plot a little,, but they completely erased the significant importance of will, and with it, most of the mystery plotline they were heavily leaning against for the last two seasons.

In contrast to complaints about Hopper, I heard so many complaints about Joyce's character suddenly being so annoying. People said she was weighing down every scene by essentially mothering grown men the whole season, yelling in a shrill voice and just getting in the way. But seeing as how much Hopper changed in s3, it almost seems like they had to write Joyce that way. Which sucks because she's a wonderful character and it isn't her job to carry the emotional/intellectual burden of everyone around her. She was only that annoying because Hopper was to begin with.