Hearing the phrase, "Take the pitch," made me irrationally happy. I find it so funny that baseball and fighting games have almost exactly the same phrase.
Somehow, despite following baseball for years, I never noticed the obvious similarity in phrasing. But while I was writing this video, the connection kind of went off like an explosion in my head. I can't believe I never picked up on that.
as part of my quarter life crisis I’ve picked up watching baseball as a hobby and i have been thinking about this EXACT point for the past few months, im so glad this video exists
As someone who loves both baseball and fighting games, I just want to say thank you for making this video. I don’t even have to express how much this video speaks to me, and I would love to see comparisons to other sports in the future.
hi. at 19:10 the al leiter conversation about pitching "in" is more than just about throwing in the strike zone, it's about pitching on the inside of the strike zone closer to the hitter.
came down here to say this as well. The risk to this is not just that hitters can turn on the pitch and pull it to their strong side, it's also that you're risking hitting the batter and giving them a free base (and also maybe starting a fight). Bambo's point still stands, but just a bit more nuance
Also, a southpaw pitching a right-handed batter has a greater risk of hitting the batter with an inside pitch. I like how you highlighted the top row and bottom row, and thought you were going to highlight the right-most column when referring to inside pitching (as most batters are righties)
It can also include a pitch out of the strike zone, as long as it's closer to the hitter. Just like a pitch outside can be a ball or a strike, so long as it's on the side further from the batter.
The most interesting part of this video to me as an American is the idea of positioning the pitcher as the attacker. I've always viewed the batter as the attacker since he's the one who actually scores points. But this analogy works better than I thought the other way
Baseball is the only sport (besides cricket) where the defense holds the ball. For the casual viewer, it’s a few moments of action minutes apart. For the avid viewer, it’s 54+ mental chess matches back-to-back.
Another fun little parallel is the goofy-ass jargon that both of them have. Worm-burner, shift beater, can of corn, high heat, cheese at the knees, oppo taco, bloop, The Maddux, perfectos, no-nos, TOOTBLAN, FARTSLAM, NOBLETIGER, The White Castle Special, swords, The Mendoza Line, painting, the eephus. All those terms come from baseball and hold meaning to the kinds of people who are as in deep with baseball as you are with fighting games. Just to keep me occupied, here are what all those things mean: Worm-burner: a pitch or hit that goes directly into the ground between the pitcher and hitter with great force shift beater: a weak hit to the opposite side of the field from where the batter is positioned, to the space the defense would usually occupy but has chosen to leave vulnerable by shifting defenders towards the areas the hitter is more likely to send the ball can of corn: an easy-to-catch fly ball. This term apparently originates from a practice common among store clerks in the late 1800s. high heat: a difficult to hit rising fastball thrown at or just above the top of the strike zone cheese at the knees: the opposite of high heat, a fastball thrown right at the bottom of the strike zone that is extremely difficult for a hitter to recognize as a strike until it’s too late. I think this term was coined by Pitching Ninja. oppo taco: an opposite field home run bloop: a ball that is hit just hard enough to go over the heads of the infield but light enough that the outfielders have no chance of catching it. Almost always results in a single. The Maddux: a performance in which a pitcher throws a complete game shutout in fewer than 100 pitches. Named after Greg Maddux, who accomplished the feat nearly twice as many times as any other pitcher has in their career. perfectos: perfect games (games in which a pitcher did not allow any batter to reach base across nine innings) no-nos: no-hitters (games in which a pitcher did not allow a hit, but may have allowed batters to reach on an error or walk) TOOTBLAN: Thrown Out On The Basepath Like A Nincompoop. A facetiously named stat for when a baserunner just completely fucks up and it’s entirely his fault. FARTSLAM: Fielder Allows Runner To Score Like A Moron. Like a TOOTBLAN, but when a fielder completely fucks up instead of a runner. NOBLETIGER: No Outs Bases Loaded Ending (with) Team Incapable (of) Getting Easy Run. With the bases loaded and no outs, a team is expected to score about 2.25 runs before the inning ends, on average. If they manage to end the inning having scored 0 runs, that’s a notable failure. The acronym is a stretch, because the person coining the term wanted to name the feat after the Detroit Tigers, who did this a lot. The White Castle Special: a pitcher striking out a batter with three nasty sliders. swords: another Pitching Ninja term, refers to a swing that a batter tries but fails to check, resulting in a very awkward-looking strike. The Mendoza Line: a batting average of .200. In reference to Mario Mendoza, a player from the 70s who usually failed to bat above .200 in any given season. (For reference, a good batting average is about .250) painting: reliably throwing pitches that just barely touch the edge of the strike zone for a called strike. the eephus: an extremely weak, slow, very hittable pitch thrown with a high arc, intended as a bizarre mixup. From the Hebrew word “efes”, meaning “Nothing”.
It's funny that I actually recently got into baseball myself as a lifelong fighting game player. A few more interesting comparisons to make: Intentionally walking could be seen as something like forcing a use of meter to close the round. Similarly, hitting the batter could be something like using EX DP on the opponent's wake-up, fully unhinged Ken-style. There's also the "character select" aspect of things like righties vs. southpaws, knuckleballers, underhand pitchers, a hitter's stance, and, lest we forget, the man behind the dish calling the pitches, the catcher. Overall a really cool comparison with a lot of parallels to draw.
At 18:00 I thought you were about to make the comparison to “high-low” mixups in fighting games. I’d love to show this video to someone who only understands baseball and not fighting games but I think I’ll have to sit and watch it with them to explain the fighting game jargon. Great video!
As soon as I saw the title I immediately thought “pitching is all about mix ups” and you perfectly expressed that! Lol 102 MPH gas at your head followed by a 78 MPH low curve or something is just too much to handle lol
My OD reversal, even after I’ve established a modest lead, as soon as my opponent starts applying the slightest amount of pressure: “Put me in, coach! I can do this!!”
You've combined two things I love here, banger video. I also love to hear about Brits becoming baseball fans. Good recommendation on the Japan vs Mexico game, that game was awesome
Fellow british baseball fan reporting in! My old man raised me a Boston Red Sox fan, but I've never actually been to a live game... Hoping my sox play in the next exhibition game down south here, and I may make the trip.
I love when Europeans get into sports outside of the usuals of their region. As a Canadian we get Hockey like crazy but ive been sooooo into American Football. I remember a discussion I had with someone I met from the UK who was super into hockey and not much soccer. He reminded me of many cool things I took for granted about hockey. This whole Baseball fighting game thing I had never thought of, and this video is really cool because of it.
Great video! Small correction. "Throwing inside" means throwing towards the batter's side of the box. He talks about it being a risky pitch to a left handed pitcher is because at that angle against right handed (majority) batters, if you're off slightly to the left, you've just thrown a fastball right down the middle. If you are off angle slightly to the right, then you run the risk of hitting the batter and just outright losing the at bat.
As someone who is both a baseball superfan (go Dodgers) and an FGC member (Uni specifically) I never thought someone else would exist in this overlap with me lol I was actually trying to explain to a friend of mine in discord once how a high spinrate slider basically is a mixup given how it breaks low and away to same sided hitters in a way that is hard to lay off of for the batter, or high spin rate 4 seamers above the zone that guys swing underneath because of the lack of drop
Amazing video, might even start watching baseball now 😂 Was getting tired of the rock-paper-scissors analogy, definitely gonna use your points in the future!
Pretty glad this comparison is getting more traction. There's this 3rd Strike video about Denjin Ryu that also used the baseball analogy to explain how denjin setups work, probably the first time I heard about it.
I enjoyed this a lot! I love it when people draw connections between different kinds of games like this. No matter how different the culture around them is, they're all just games, from Settlers of Catan to Street Fighter to Baseball, and you can understand a lot about each one by studying the others. Also, not that you mentioned it, but as an American soccer fan, I empathize with the experience of loving a popular sport that everyone around me finds weird and confusing.
This video reminds me of how I remember people made comparisons between overwatch and basketball; the way it uses time, the desperate attempts teams will make to go into overtime etc.
I've seen this with other sports as well like squash, tennis, or American football. These sports have some element of mental stack where one side is doing things to get the other side to make a mistake. Once one side makes a mistake, the other side is given the advantage to punish and score.
I’m a long time fighting game player and I’m about to go to a baseball game tomorrow. (I think I went to one once when I was a kid but honestly can’t remember) Thanks for making it make so much sense!
the whole time you were talking about the player who just spams fastballs being compared to Daigo my brain just constantly went "surely they won't throw a sixth time?"
I could make a similar video on racing, sales pitches, music or story-telling. Strategising skills carry over to pretty much anything where strategising occurs. You have to make someone believe and take advantage of the story you're telling them, that's pretty much all of it.
From what you mentioned, music is the most interesting one. I agree with you, but I can't immediately put it into words. Hopefully someone (YOU) does actually make that video eventually - especially since fighting game players love using music for analogy
@@DazIsBambo I'm not gonna make that video, way too much research for my brain. Maybe it's kind of a moot point to make but improvisation takes a lot of thinking ahead and playing off of both what you play and what others play. Often you think ahead together through cues and body language which can be likened to conditioning except you're cooperating rather than trying to catch someone out.
Great video!! I'm an inspiring game dev and hearing about the psychology of implying pressure to your opponent is FASCINATING. I love hearing about how players balance out risk and reward in just milliseconds through a deep understanding of the mechanics and psychology. Keep up the great work! It's helping me understand so much more about how human brains work and get to use that for my games!!
I always love reading comments from game devs because of what you said! I just like to put words to what's going on in my head, but it's even better that people end up finding it useful!
I've been playing SF6 and MLB The Show and I've been thinking about those parralels a lot. The fastball/changeup/breaking balls mixups are very real, but they're not pure guesses. Just like fighting games, you can increase your success by understanding the risk/reward of situations.
25:27 Man, why’d you have to use a clip from this game as an example of knock on effects, I was there and it was painful (Cubs fan here). Anyway, this vid spoke to my soul, the similarities in Baseball and FGs has stuck out to me recently, and I’m super glad someone was able to put those thoughts into words.
It's a good day when I find a half hour RU-vid video about the absolute most niche concept that's been plaguing my brain for years because it's so niche that you can't even talk to people about it. ALSO! Baseball is very heavily influential on shonen anime. There's obviously the baseball sports anime but a lot of that story telling dynamic within baseball transfers over to your dragon balls and your narutos and so on. Large gaps in action for tension with quick bursts of action and the entire course of the game, no matter the score, can change in a heart beat.
I know jack shit about baseball, but this is a really good video, and I'm quite new so it's helped me understand the cycle of oki options a lot more. Thank you :)
I think the idea of the threat of an option being more effective than the option itself is probably best explained through the lens of grapplers. If you watch snake eyes play gief or even potemkin, he often gets more damage off his strike game precisely BECAUSE his opponent is so scared of the command throw.
I am so glad someone made a video about this. I’m a college pitcher who picked up MK a couple years ago and it was so cool to find the parallels between the two. You did a great job of explaining the pitcher-batter matchup. Well done.
My biggest anxiety about this video was in trying to explain baseball for the first time to an audience that may know nothing about baseball, so, I massively appreciate hearing that from a college-level player!
I usually explain it as speed chess. There are scenarios to train for, but those same scenarios can be tricky setups for something 4 moves down the road too.
i really like the strategy of both the most, which is why i love both. baseball is my fav sport when it comes to the strategy. and fgs are my fav esport for the same reason. baseball and fighting games can be as simple as "hit the good button/throw the good pitch", and as complex as these crazy strings/pitch sequences with a crazy finisher that gets the SO or the KO. this hit both of my super niches well. good watch!!
Very insightful video, I never would have guessed that the sport you were referring to a few weeks ago would be baseball! Also, I still feel the burn after that sick call-out against my shimmy, thanks for the feature xD
This is all fine and dandy, but I can’t seem to relate. My success ratio on mixups is ABYSMAL and I don’t know how to change it. My first try at competitive fighting games was Street Fighter 4 Bison. A character that has no mixups, and can’t be mixed up. So this completely warped my perception of mixups in fighting games.
I want to start this out by saying this. You have opened my mind to a line of thinking I had not previously considered. Great vid. I have just one thing. Having baseball explained to me by a British person as a baseball loving American was a trip, man. It was an absolute ride for a second there! I did not have that on my bingo card for 2024. You explained everything great! Please don't take this as criticism. You have me just picturing an off speed pitcher metaphorically hitting a heavy button every time we see Change Up or how great Grappler players hold the same sort of mythical status as a good knuckle ball pitcher.... what heck... I could go on and on with these metaphors and comparisons.
Not sure if this is the same but as a North American I've always thought watching Cricket would be similar to follow and enjoy like Baseball. Now I'm not the biggest follower of Baseball to begin with but I can still tell what's going on. Cricket, albeit similar I just don't fully get it lol but wonder if I knew more about Baseball I'd appreciate it more
Love baseball, love fighting games, love Ohtani. Good video. And yes they are similar. "He's not gonna throw the slider again" is exactly the same situation as "he's not gonna throw me again" Lol the Trout clip had me giggling 😂 And holy shit I was AT the game when bryce hit that grand slam lmao, devastating loss for the Angels
For a ubiquitous example in SF of having a threat create mental stack: jump-ins. 99% of the time, good players especially pros, will anti-air you but if busy their minds with grounded options, the unexpexted jump-in will at least give you plus frames as they take the safer option and block rather than try to anti-air.
Pitching ninja is a great RU-vidr to watch if you want to learn more about how pitchers attack. He did a great video about Ohtani vs Trout in the world baseball classic. Down to their last out and the go ahead run at the plate, it's the captain of the U.S. team vs the captain of the Japanese team who both played on the same team in the MLB at that time. It's such a great game and the mental battle is crazy between pitcher and batter. High-low mix ups, working in and out, messing with timing, pitch tunneling (an absolutely crazy concept but you wouldn't really catch unless you're well versed in the sport but pitching ninja does overlays a lot that make it very easy to understand) I would also argue that it has overlap with card games as well like magic but that's a whole different topic.
I'm a fan of both fighting games and RTS games, and I would say that fighting games are the second most strategic genre after RTS (I'm not counting turn based because I feel the stress of deciding quickly is core to the strategic thinking aspect of these games). I happen to think that Starcraft 2 is the most overrated RTS of all time, and it killed the genre's popularity very hard and now it's considered a niche genre. To be fair, the genre has other problems, the main one being that it doesn't translate to console well, meaning you can't play it on a couch with your friends, which is why I switched to fighting games. In the interest of shouting out some RTS games, I wanted to mention that Age Of Empires 4 is very good and pretty popular, and there's also a very promising alpha you can play for free of a game called Beyond All Reason (BAR). Age of Empires has a lot of resources (4, most games have 2), and like 16 playable civs, so there are lots of strategies/ play styles, and if you are a history buff there's that aspect as well. BAR is based on older titles Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander, which represent full scale war very effectively, you can field air and naval units, and on maps that let you build it, it has the best representation of naval combat I can think of outside of games dedicated to naval. It's also designed to be played in teams, so your buddy going air and winning superiority has a radical effect on the game. Most games you field ground units though, and in those games you realize it also has really cool defensive options and artillery that can hit the enemy base from across the map. It also simulates ballistics, unlike most RTS, so placement is really important, because if you hit something, it actually hits it, whether it was your intended target or not, which adds a lot of depth to positioning (friendly fire is also a thing). The end tier combat is insane, unreasonable even, and the armies get huge, especially in team games. If you like fighting games and have a decent computer, give RTS a shot, just know that just like fighting games, there's a steep learning curve and it's basically an rules journey of improvement. At least fighting computers is generally more fun in RTS though, so that makes it easier to get familiar with your main.
Regarding SF6's throw loop issue, for me the problem is a lack of options that beat shimmy and throw, but which would lose to a meaty normal. Delay tech or the new wake up DR will beat the meaty and the throw but lose to a shimmy, and delay low poke will catch their backwalk while blocking a meaty. No universal input or sequence can cover both the throw and the shimmy though, since throws are low end lag enough to beat out back steps and jumps, which is why when a character does have an option against this core gameplay scenario, ie ex air blanka ball, that character's defensive options disproportionately outdo their competition while they don't lose access to that same offensive wake up mix themselves. This kind of mix situation is unique, because unlike cross ups, which can be parried to take out the mental tax, or high/low mix which can be solved with a low block shifted to a high block after a few frames, there is simply no way to option select around the throw/shimmy mix, so we end up with "just take the throw," and a blanka throw looping Japan's best player for an entire set.
