it is, and as I'm sure there are some subie fanboys trying to make excuses for it; inexcusable too. You just remove the copper where needed to isolate audio electronics from a noisy pcb, even dirt cheap PC motherboard makers have known how for years. This is literally designed to break, and warrants a class action imho to refund every last customer whom had one of these headunits break, and a full recall to replace them all with corrected designs.
@@anasevi9456the volume and tuning knob isn't even actual analog electronics. They are encoded pots that send a digital signal back to the computer inside the radio that is playing music. The actual audio portion of these newer radios is so limited that you can have a small isolated module and leave the rest of the board to handle things like touchscreen input.
@@anasevi9456 As far as I'm aware, as a Subaru technician, the radios themselves are not made by Subaru themselves. That doesn't change the fact that the damn things suck, and nobody asked for them...
It's 100 percent intentional. They actually have to program a machine to route that slot out of the board, place the pcb into the machine, and press go. It actually costs more to make that slot than it would if the pcb were solid. That slot makes the pcb more expensive, harder to fix, and more prone to failure. All to sell you a whole stereo system when the pcb cracks and brings the whole car to its knees.
The sad thing is how expensive a car radio is to replace too. The radio in my 2013 Dodge Journey was starting to go on the fritz several years ago, so I replaced it with a Chinese Android deck - but I was pretty leery about buying from an overseas company that I had never heard of, so I certainly looked into an OEM replacement first. A USED one, without GPS was going to cost me over $1000 CDN. Instead, I got the Chinese one, with GPS, with 4G functionality (that I use), with way more extended functionality than the OEM deck, for $600 CDN. The OEM equipment is almost always inferior to aftermarket stuff, but costs substantially more - and like you proved, some of it is intentionally built to fail.
Okay, I did my research. That radio is made by the Clarion Global Company. They make a massive amount of radios for several different car companies. So the Subaru even knows about this glaring flaw
Didnt do your research well enough. SUBARU also uses Panasonic and Harmon Kardon radio units as well. I see all of them (clarion pana & harman) fail on a weekly basis. Was the same when I was with Dodge.
@@johndc2998 Okay, yeah. Multiple companies make multiple radios for multiple companies because they fight for a contract. I'm talking about this specific radio that went to that specific car. This is the only brand of radio that I see that had a flaw this bad. And they actually lost their contract with Subaru over this. So do your research before you start trying to call me out
@@johndc2998 On top of that, they still make videos to this day, but not for Subaru. And some of the stuff they make for cars doesn't even have their name on it anymore. It's a completely white labeled product that a car company can slap their name on.
@@johndc2998 Thirdly, if you don't believe me, go to their website. It's literally just the first name of the company that I have in the original comment
It almost looks like it was supposed to be a separate part that popped out of the assembly on purpose, but then some manager said they couldn’t spend $0.05 on a couple 4 pin connectors, so they routed traces across the break off tabs and went out for a beer. Or maybe it’s supposed to be a compliant mechanism and it’s supposed to flex like this. But if so, it still needs a damn cable for the signals!
Fill the slot with 5-minute epoxy. Probably best to take the board out and put tape on the other side of the slot so that the epoxy doesn't run out. Do that before any soldering so that the PCB is still clean so the epoxy will adhere well, it won't adhere through flux. You can even do it before any damage has happened as a preventative measure.
Seeing this make me want to pull the stereo out of my 2018 Subaru Legacy and preemptively fill those cuts in. The touch screen already needs replacing as it is and it has only 15k miles on it.
@@Drives31forhaloSubaru doesn’t bid. That’s not how manufacturing agreements work. This radio was a Fujitsu ten product and like he said, this design here was intentional. It’s designed so if something impacts or pushes on the vol/B+ button knob, it’ll push back instead of taking the whole board out. It was a design requirement that Subaru asked of Fujitsu ten. For this reason, all radios are supposed to have a 5V input that gets interrupted when the key is cycled on. When that happens, the radio auto turns on. The issue with that was that the customer couldn’t turn it off if they wanted to. When the key is cycled off, it’s supposed to turn off the radio and go back to that 5V signal that keeps it in “sleep” state. It’s how it stores data like radio stations and a phone book. Sometimes the knob would be broken and this very feature still wouldn’t work. Which is what this customer of his was experiencing. This and many other issues is why Subaru decided on denso for their new radios in 2018. I was there when that happened. Lots of build quality things were fixed but there were software issues galore. And yeah, this very design is still implemented in the new radios. Although the new ones are mostly touch screen and can’t really be turned off because the of HVAC controls being integrated into them now. Regardless, this is just how things are. I was a tech during that whole transition, Fujitsu ten was pretty good with their amps and sound reproduction stuff. But radios fell apart in the weirdest ways.
My 2006 Subaru Outback has had only two problems. One, a aircon compression intake/outtake ? combo aluminum and rubber tubing that required replacement because of a leak. When to a junkyard got a used replacement part, installed myself,then had Jiffy Lube (before they phased out that service equipment) charge the unit with anti-freeze…eliminating that problem. Two, a constant dashboard “warning” of engine problem, which was being triggered by the smog control device, which my mechanic shop reset twice before i had them remove it…and my Subaru has not had any other problems since then…i 😍 that car maybe more than my wife⁉️😱👀 🤫
I am a PCB designer who owns a 2018 Outback. The ONLY time I have ever added board cutouts in my designs is to prevent creepage in high voltage circuits. There is no possible way this serves any purpose in the vehicle other than to intentionally add failure points to the rotary encoders. I was wondering why the back light on my tune knob started flickering; fortunately I haven't lost any other functionality yet, but I intend on filling these contours with epoxy. This is flat out offensive.
Just FYI there are design specs for the knobs to be this way. In an accident the knobs need to break off and save you from physical harm. As far as a fix or preventative solution, why not a brace that connects to the pre-existing holes? Or even something that fits in the groove and attaches with small screws?
Oh buddy, there was a recall for almost every 2018 Subaru. The recall stated that the radio would not initialize the display due to a software bug. I wonder if that's actually true or if they just replaced the radio because they realized the LG radios that they put in those things were very poorly designed.
I experience these same exact emotions recently replacing the water inlet valves on my washing machine. One was stuck open meaning water wouldn't stop coming in. I disassembled as much as I could to the point the valves were plastic welded closed. I cleaned and cleaned it but the valve wouldn't close. Finally I decided to cut it open. It was semi-clear so I could see how some of it worked. The spring. The dang spring they used to push the valve back closed was one of the weakest looking springs you will see. It had to be intentional. They did it on purpose. Something that wouldn't be analyze by even a tech. A tech would make you replace the part. A tech would charge you over $100 for repair labor. Insane. All because they used a 10 cent spring versus an 11 cent. It had to be done on purpose. There's no way it wasn't. They must assume no one was ever gonna find out. But I did. I've thought about making a video about it. But I may have thrown it away already.
Postępowanie producenta jest skandaliczne. Co do naprawy to mogłeś to staranniej wykonać szczególnie odtworzenie ścieżek. Nie macie w kraju izolowanego przewodu KYNAR 0,8mm ? Takie rzeczy zamówiesz w TME. Symbol TME: KYNAR-WH/50
finally a electrical guy that's working on car parts and I always wonder if anybody ever saved these and tries to fix them yet the manufacturer and make them so cheap now I see why people don't try to save them lol
I don't think I will ever buy a modern car. I'm going to find one that is old and reliable and uses as few digital components as possible. Also interesting that ESG score doesn't take repairability into account. They have no problem tossing tons of batteries and other still useful components into landfills as long as it means you're buying more
@@chasefournier Sorry but your repair will sooner or later break too at the solder wick because you flooded the wick with solder, vibration, from the car or the operation will break the solder wick.
Does the reverse camera still work? I'm fairly certain they would have to replace the headunit free of charge because the reverse camera is now required safely equipment same way an airbag is. The replacement will probably fail the same way after a while if they haven't redesigned the part.
Subaru tech here. In the US, that is not the case as far as I'm aware. Once your out of warranty, you're screwed. Also that button does not affect the reverse camera operation. Only volume, and power to the radio.
Depending on what model in years of Subaru that came from, they sourced their radios from third party manufacturers, Chevy does it too when it's frickin annoying. It still doesn't let them off the hook for putting trash stuff into their car not caring about the customer, but they didn't make most of the radios that have issues. I can't remember which ones they did make. I would have to look it up.
Imo if they're going to say that you can't repair your own boards and it not so you will board by board, they should at least you know make it so their boards are structurally sound.
I don't know anything about this kind of stuff, but I watch and subscribe anyway. I did not know solder could be used as a support like that, very interesting. Is that isopropyl alcohol on the qtips? What % if so? Also what year is the car? Is it designed to fail after the warranty has run out or is it still in the warranty window?
Probably would have to be a high heat one, and a lot of those need to be cured for several hours at a high temperature to set properly. Probably not worth it.
@@sompka1that's top-tier nonsense right there 😅 Glue is often the only option, and often the very best as well. You have to so things properly and know what you are doing, so I understand if glue likes to fail for you :)
Circuit boards in many devices have slots cut into them for high voltage isolation; this is common, and I suspect that's the reason why they did this. For safety testing, anything that can touch the operator has to be isolated from electrical signals at, say, 1000 volts applied to the circuit--a certain level of leakage current cannot be passed. So this is an unwise safety hazard mitigation. And using copper braid circumvents that safety measure, albeit not a very likely scenario in which it will cause a real world safety issue. The slot also separates the two ground planes, which may have an advantage in a radio. Subaru could have used higher spec switches or other isolation measures, but they didn't. It's not designed to break; warranty claims are extremely costly for the manufacturer. It is certainly also not designed for hard or military-grade. A better way to do the strengthening would be via flowing epoxy into the slot, probably easier too.
What radio is this? Fujitsu F10 or Harman Kardon? If it's a Harman Kardon, I would love to see you repair the touch screen cause they are known for separating.
I don't know how my 2021 radio PCB looked but I swapped it with a double din pioneer screen asap. That radio is absolutely trash. Subaru sound systems on base model crosstreks are hot garbage and a 60 dollar single din cd/bluetooth sony/pioneer receiver is SO much better sound wise. How they managed to go so cheap on this radio is beyond me.
My 18 limited trim crosstrek has the power knob all floppy, push in still turns it off, but the shaft snapped so it doesnt raise or lower the volume. Would you know the component that I would need to replace? You mentioned that this is a 2018, I'm assuming it's the base model radio based on the shape. Hopefully you've got experience with the limited touchscreen model, I would assume they have very similar if not identical knob functions
The manufacturer's behavior is outrageous. As for the repair, you could have done it more carefully, especially the reconstruction of the tracks. Don't you have insulated KYNAR 0.8 mm wire in your country? You can order such things from TME. TME symbol: KYNAR-WH/50
bro i even dont know what this bord is for until middle of video and i think thats why you dont have that big number of views you have to gave a good title to the video and in the beginning explains what the video for and what that bord from and the story how it came to you what is the problem the customer came to you to fix
Not intentional, I can see why they thought it was a good idea which is to provide some overtravel for the switch so if it's pushed hard the flex of the PCB takes it rather than the switch but they didn't make it substantial enough. If you think it was intentional consider the amount of time they would have had to have spent testing it to ensure it failed as desired vs the expected financial return on that failure and that just doesn't make sense. Whoever owned that vehicle must have been hitting those buttons pretty hard.
Yes the first break was just happening and then the car owner just hit the thing hard and many times and it totally broke off at four points at the same time ? The design is clearly to make the pcb flex, not by much just a little, this design cost money so they have done it for good reasons we just do not know for sure what reason. To think that it is designed to break on purpose after the warranty is over is a bit strange, I am not sure this video tells us the full and true story about this event.
Isn't this an intentional breakaway so that whole circuit board won't shatter if someone accidentally slaps the control button? Considering this is the second post/video that I ever see someone mentions this "problem". Also why it will cause the car battery to die?
You do this kind of design for thermal isolation or for isolating high voltage from a lower voltage. But neither of these things would be necessary for a car radio. There's really nothing I can think of that would require this. The tiny bridges make this board weaker than if it was completely solid so it's not like you're protecting the board from potential damage from someone slamming the buttons. There's nothing in the knob circuitry that would get hot or need to stay cooler than the rest of the radio and there's no dangerous voltages inside a car radio. I design circuit boards for extreme environments and would never do anything like this unless I intended for that part of the board to snap off. As for the car battery, there might be some standby voltage going through that portion of the board and the trace damage caused a small short to ground which would slowly drain the battery. The radio does need some power when "off" to save settings (although many cars now retain settings even when you pull the battery).
@@abcdef20I believe that when they talk about somebody slamming the button, they mean in an accident. Idea being, it collapsed in to prevent damage. (Side note, this is a very poor way of doing it)
@@Karroe maybe the holes provide extra flexibility so the board doesn't break as easily. Although the better solution would just be to add support behind the board so it can't flex at all.
@@chasefournier I feel like he criticizes his own repairs hardest... RU-vid suggest actually suggested a relevant, interesting channel in yours, look forward to watching more. I did comment about Linux on your TV emmc reading video - most smarttvs probably run android or linux and so the filesystem is likely native to Linux unless encrypted.
i doubt this was done intentionally. They probably want that isolated for god knows why and the engineer got a bit out of hand with it. Trying to intentionally build things to fail would result in major issues and comebacks under warranty and that's definitely not what their trying to have happen. Imagine thinking you can design these little bridges to fail at a set time between the time the warranty expires and the time its no longer worth replacing the head gasket (this time not under warranty) and throw the car away. Seems unlikely. Not defending subaru, I just don't think their maliciously trying to make boards physically weak. Their just stupid.
I agree. I've been working on this field long enough to know sometimes there are design errors so bad, you can't imagine is because stupidity and something much larger and sinister is going on. But no, it's always stupidity.
ShOcK & AWE (and not in a good way). Is it possible that Subaru didn't design that PCD but Boeing? That design is so a·tro·cious /əˈtrōSHəs/ that I can't wrap my tiny little head around it. I just don't want to believe anybody or anything is responsible for that. The world going forward is screWed Thank you for the video. Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd House On the Left.
