Thanks Paul for the advice. You introduced me to the sub-crawl some years ago, and it works pretty nicely. By the way, the PSB in PSB Speakers actually stands for Paul and Sue Barton, the husband and wife team who founded the company. They make some wonderful speakers, and yes, Paul Barton is still alive and still the chief designer.
I started my serious journey in the the realm of 2 channel audio with 2 speakers and no subwoofer, but with my many years of experience in the car audio business where a subwoofer is essential, I wanted the bass impact of the mobile systems when needed. When I realized that I was missing the bass I was accustomed to in my system, I added a subwoofer, which really enhanced the sound, but created the problem of standing waive. To solve this, I added a second sub and some room treatment, which solved the problem. Seeing what Rel was doing with their subwoofer stack, I wanted to try it, so I added 2 more subs, stacking them and tuning to the sound I was after, I was finally satisfied. The bass was awesome. I had tuned them to where they were musical and not overpowering. Life was good. Then, watching Paul McGowan's video where he visited Darren Meyers house, where Darren had a subwoofer behind his listening position and the impact that had on Paul, I decided to try it. All I can say is, WOW! Yes, sometimes I have to turn the subs down or off, but when listening to the likes of Ghost Rider's Make us Stronger, 1812 overture, etc. WOW! Thank-you Paul for all you do. I have learned much from your blogs and videos. My room is 11' X 13' and is somewhat treated. The M700 mono amps, pre-amp, and Regenerator (on the source and pre-amp) are PS audio. The speakers are Klipsch Heresy III and SVS SB1000 subs. Each to his own, do what makes you happy. No rules or boundaries. Enjoy!
Paul Barton is alive and well, and is still the head designer for PSB. By the way, PSB stands for Paul and Sue Barton, honoring Paul’s wife and company co founder Sue Barton.
Subwoofer crawl only really provides an indication of avoiding an antinode where the sub is potentially located and the seating position at that frequency. Also nothing said about delay as this will affect integration with the mains as Im sure you know. Paul I'm a fan of a lot of things you say but this is in need of updating even REW if you dont have a Microphone with the room simulator will do a much better job of investigating locations. Anyone looking to get serious with audio and subwoofers should invest in a mic and stand and use REW its £100 or so and with a bit of homework you can actually understand what is actually going on and look at integration with you mains etc
I have bass traps in all four corners left over from when the room was for recording…I have stereo subs but they sit underneath the speakers..they sound good to me and these closed ported subs..
I never needed subs for my stereo floor standers. Both sets dig deep enough, and Paul over emphasizes the “lack of bass from the listening position.” Many people like exaggerated unnatural bass in their stereo sound. At the SPL’s that we (most if us) listen for extended periods, that can still be accomodated for speakers that dig deep, have good supporting amplification, and and have EQ modifying capability. Obviously, we won’t all agree as tastes, ears, and even recordings, may vary tremendously. Moving away from stereo, I do like the subwoofer concept for home theater setups, for the purpose of movie effect mostly, but aside from that, for stereo listening, a more careful evaluation, assessment, and understanding of priorities and compromises in building a system of equipment within a given room can lead to a good stereo experience without a subwoofer.
@@lexicon612 Like I said, all can’t and won’t agree. .. in my opinion, there are some recordings that just need EQ. You can’t just say, well, all the equipment today is good enough where you don’t need any EQ bc that just wouldn’t be correct. Not everyone is just like you, or me! It would be a pretty pathetic world if that was the case. Edit: oh, by the way, it must be terrible to be cursed as a purist. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to obtain a large collection of acceptable recordings that you’re actually happy with “as is” lol
@@lexicon612 well, there’s a lot of newer recordings that I don’t like, but some I do, but as you say it’s about taste.. final thoughts, I don’t see where a decent digital recording needs to be any better than CD-quality. Maybe I’m not young enough anymore for “Hi-Res” lol but I don’t think it’s really necessary to go through any extra trouble or expense for that. If I was a purist, I might want to go that extra step, but I don’t think it makes much of a difference for most people, especially past 30, when they can usually afford expensive stuff! 🤣 Edit: oh, I forgot to add final comment. I actually am an EQ minimalist. In other words I use as little EQ as possible when listening to a piece of music to optimize the listening experience. I’m not incessantly messing with it. I’m not against it, but I do think that a lot of people use it and overuse it in situations where they have no business using it lol anyway food for thought ..sometimes we make assumptions about each other without having all the facts..
In 44 years, I've never felt the need for a subwoofer! ... My speakers have MORE than enough bass to dislodge the roof tiles, and to measure on the Richter Scale! 👍🤣
I'd enjoy the sub crawl as much as the pub crawl. But my sub towers are around 300 lbs and cabled through the wall to their amps. We ran out of space and heat gain hence that solution. There was a bit of movement available for them so we just experimented when we set them up. Small changes made a difference and the orientation in regards to the driven/passive side also did.
In bad rooms with strong room modes, real bass traps would fill the room. What some brands sell as bass traps (typical corner bass trap) are more a medium bass trap with some abortion in very high lows. Pressure bass traps are different. Common velocity bass trap work best at 1/4 wave length from the wall: the math for a 34 Hz or 68 Hz wave mode with an excess of 12 dB... will answer your question.
You don't really need to crawl about or move a sub if the subwoofer has delay all subwoofers should have delay and group delay. Like Arendal 1723 V subwoofers are the subwoofers you should be looking at
I think delay means to SLOW UP the response of the woofer. NOT a good thing for tight, fast bass, which is always a problem with LARGE driver subwoofers.
@@garysmith8455 no it's not that, it doesn't affect the tightness of the woofer, but it just adds delay in the signal in milliseconds to reduce comb effect. So you don't have any phase issues.
@@garysmith8455 no it's not that, it doesn't affect the tightness of the woofer, but it just adds delay in the signal in milliseconds to reduce comb effect. So you don't have any phase issues.
Mom and pop stereo stores started closing their doors because of lack of interest in buying from the retailers. The younger generations are not couch potatoes. They are more active, phones, tablets, computers have become the mainstay of their entertainment with 4K HDR OLED technology. They have all the built in audio and video codecs, plus all the applications available. Now there are AI technologies at the forefront that are rapidly evolving for the future available to everyone. Times change, priorities change, economies change. Perhaps it is advisable for audio marketing in the high end business to rethink their business future.
Hey, Jerry in Quebec don't you hate it when you go to a movie theater and you have to crawl around on the sticky floor to find out where the bass is going to sound the best? Wait! You don't crawl around in a movie theater to find the best bass sound? Well, you surely sit in all the seats to find where the bass sounds best right? You don't do that either? If you are like most people you expect the bass, as well as the rest of the sound, to be good no matter where you sit and it is. Why is that? Did they use Pauls's book on how to set up speakers? No, they use a combination of acoustic room treatment, (first) which includes bass traps, along with precision speaker placements. You can do this too Jerry, and so can everyone else. Don't crawl around on the floor anymore, unless you lost your contact. There is plenty of reliable and factually proven acoustics control methods available.
With the subwoofer I have, which isn't of the showy window rattling sort, (it's musical & blends in) and doesn't call attention to itself, I wouldn't be crawling around on the floor too far from the wall behind my main speakers. My subwoofer wouldn't have that much bass, placed way out into the room somewhere.
Subwoofers and domestic rooms are a big no no ! If you really want to hear how good ... or ( god forbid .. bad !!) your set up is then take it all outside .... all your troubles will go away
