A shame that so much was lost in Desperate Struggle's development. So much was lost due to publisher deadlines, including the overworld. I would've liked to roam around a different, more developing Santa Destroy. Perhaps if we got the full package it would've had more of a say on the trend of game sequels.
It's a shame Suda ended up playing to his perceived character instead of sticking to his guns. It seems he, or a very insistent publisher, saw the public reaction to the outlandish over the top parts and focused on that at the expense of everything else. There's certainly a lot of fun to be had in "B games" though. During the PS3 era, titles like Wet (Behaviour Interactive), Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (Ninja Theory), Vanquish (Platinum Games - not that I need to tell you), Alpha Protocol (Obsidian Entertainment), and Binary Domain (Sega) turned out to be extremely fun surprises that took more chances and left more of an impression than some of the big triple A heavy hitters. Hell, that was true for previous console generations, Chase the Express (Sugar & Rockets) on the original PlayStation blew me away! One of the things I love about your channel is that you talk about games and franchises that are meaningful to you, their popularity, MetaCritic average, and the RU-vid algorithm be damned. Looking forward to discovering more interesting titles going forward.
B games are really fun! I'm currently having the time of my life with Binary domain and Alpha Protocol. And I finished Vanquish just a few days ago and daaaaamn, this game fucking rocks!
Well, the story was written by the guy behind the Yakuza series, which despite being famous for their goofiness today, had their serious cop drama style narrative as it's main selling point...why do we write comments mimicing the speech pattern of the RU-vidr we just watched, that's so weird. Personally, I love the PS2 era for the gigantic library of awesome AA games. It felt like there was something fun to play hidden in every game that wasn't in the cover of any major magazine. Samurai Western and Bujingai: Forsaken City springs to mind.
@@funcounting I don't remember the details but I think it held concepts from let it die (before let it die was a thing of course) including the phone app but with gameplay sounding like a competitor for games like devil may cry
I feel like it's safe to say that the biggest problem with Suda's titles after NMH1 is that he's been expected to live up to the quirkiness that was scattered throughout NMH1.
The first sign of these misdirections is easily when Suda was no longer a leading director for many titles. Sure he had work to do in them, but he did not have all the shots this time around. Suda sadly had to make sure his company can still stand up. This easily lead to the whole factor of Suda being softer with over the top elements compared to the later run. With TSA with the knowledge that Suda is back in his chair and having a smaller team work on this project to highlight how the past was makes me happy. It also makes me believe that this could be the first step getting back into Suda's usual flair. Because with Silver Case and 25th Wards finally getting released out of Japan, it does show that Suda's original ideas still stick to gamers. Suda has even mentioned that with Silver Case getting released again it got him to reflect. So I think we could be getting onto a good start again.
Killer7 is also a thematic melting pot of his previous games at that point in time. A shame the video doesnt do justice to the silver case and its sequel. They are incredibly interesting visual novels, definitely something a twin peaks fan could fancy.
It may or may not be a sequel depending on how you view some background details like Kevin Smith having the Silver Eyes and the appearance of the ghost of Edo Macalister from FSR and I believe characters from Twilight or Moonlight Syndrome as well.
The whole punk auteur charm his games had are now being dilluted to the point where the weird elements that survive feel incredibly shallow. I've once read an article where the author argued that the punk movement could not survive in it's more rebellious form, because it manifested itself in easily marketable means(clothes, music, makeup, etc). I feel that kinda happened with Suda too. His bizarre means of creating a game and a story cannot grow because it is blocked by the more marketable aspects of his creations(the zanyness, the aesthetic, the music, the characters, the adult topics, etc.). I mean, there's nothing wrong in enjoying those new games, I really like Shadows Of The Damned, it just feels really bad to realize games are losing a very unique touch.
Boy this video kinda aged like milk in terms of TSA, which turned out to be a stealth autobiography picking apart Suda's career and why his games ended up the way they are.
Out of the post-NMH Grasshopper games Sine Mora, Liberation Maiden, and Black Knight Sword are easily my favorites. They were much smaller downloadable releases that had a lot of the charm and atmosphere I felt had been missing in Shadows of the Damned and Lollipop Chainsaw. Because they were small downloadable releases they got really overlooked though.
To be honest, Lollipop Chainsaw had some great building and memorable characters. An amazing ride. Still one of my favorite games despite the gameplay limitations.
I loved Lollypop Chainsaw but I think its not the game play that does it for me. Its how ridiculous the story was and how fun the characters were. It felt like I was in this Scooby Doo universe that ran into zombie b movie. Now I do agree the zombie focus is kinda meh. If it was Cheerleader fighting different types of monster I would be way more into it. Especially when how creative some zombie designs in the game.
I think Killer is Dead is an extremely underrated game, it has an awesome art style, a lot of weird shit (which I kinda like) and the combat, while seemingly unoriginal is very interesting and unique when you actually learn it's nuances. I believe it's lack of critical reception is a sort of testament to it's uniqueness, while not as unique a groundbreaking as K7 and NMH, it needs to be said that those two last games came out at a time where people and critics were a lot more open to experimentation, specially Killer 7, which came at time of the so called "capcom 5".
I first played No More Heroes around it's release in 2008, becoming a giant Suda51 and Grasshopper fanboy in the process. I quickly played and fell in love with their past games, collecting as many art books, Japanese releases and OSTs as I could. I eagerly anticipated Grasshopper's new releases, often pre-ordering them and getting special editions whenever they came out. None of those games came slightly close to all time faves like NMH, FSR and Killer7. Your video perfectly articulates everything I've come to feel about Suda and his company in the decade(!) since NMH came out. It was honestly cathartic to watch, much like your MGSV video. Thanks man. Keep up the great work.
The problem isn't Suda, it's that he doesn't direct any of "his" games, whenever he's incharge of a project it's what we expect, it's when he takes the back seat that the product seems half assed. All Suda needs to do is direct more games, but the big problem is that he runs Grasshopper, which can not be easy especially when his games have such a reputation.
For the record Robin atkin reprised his role as Travis Touchdown in Travis strikes again in the end Apparently this was because suda originally didn't intend to have voice acting in Travis strikes again
@@JmanRising No way. I loved Shadows of the Damned (most especially the visual art design), but I thought the gameplay/controls for No More Heroes 1 & 2 were much better!
It’s very interesting going back to this after your TSA video, granted I think you were justified in your disappointment at the time with Grasshopper’s output. In the context of a post-TSA world and the amount of layers going on in that game’s story, I can sort forgive Shadows and Lollipop as I feel Suda values the lessons he learned from those games and finally being able to get back on his groove (and also really showing that EA and Kadokawa were holding him and his company back immensely) Anyways if you’re somehow reading this Charlie, thanks for your videos and hope you enjoy NMH3 :)
My exact experience with the Suda games, it went all in a weird wrong direction! A collab for NMH3 where Platinum focuses on the gameplay and Suda comes up with a plot would be awesome
I read an article where they talked to grasshopper about suda and they also said that suda does not really know how to make games properly or give out his ideas very clearly, when he was a game director he apparently just told the dev team his idea and that would be it, from there the team had to figure out how to put anything that suda said together because he would tell them things when it popped in his head, he was also not directly involved in a lot of the titles that were published under his name, they were just using him as a spokesperson and his name so people would buy the games
So glad you did a video on this, I have felt the same way for years. If you ever get the chance of would be great to see your opinion on the silver case, flower sun and rain and other early did a games
Great video, and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm still hopeful for Travis Strikes Again since this is the first game since No More Heroes that Suda's directed himself, so I hope this marks a return to form!
I think this phenomenon can be accurately described as flanderization. They basically kept emphasizing the humor and somewhat random and crazy moments that occasionally popped up in stuff like Silver Case, Killer7, and No More Heroes until that was basically all the games were, wacky and random adventures that lacked all of the other elements from Suda's previous games. It really does reek of marketing on the level of stuff like Namco making Dark Souls out to be nothing but a hard game where you'll die and nothing else, companies do it because it's easier to market something if there's only one or two elements that people have to focus on.
I've recently played no more heroes: heroes paradise on the PS3 and it is one of my favourite move games. While playing it, I knew that if it was remade/ported today, there would definitely be microtransactions to avoid doing the jobs/assassinations.
JAZZPUNK yes, a normal dual shock controller works to play the game. It's actually a lot easier to get the gold medals on some challenges using the controller. Plus you can control the camera when fighting. However, you will press r3 a lot.
Hey, loved the video, man. Great job. About your short mention of Samurai Champloo: Sidetracked. I bought that game when it came out and still own it. Its one of my favorite games by Suda51. If you want to know more I can answer any questions and provide you info.
Couldn't agree more with what you said, Suda made a huge impact on me when i finished killer7 for the first time. I don't want to lose faith in the guy, i just really hope he gets back on his A-game and proves that punk isn't really dead
I actually liked some of the character designs for No More Heroes 2, Margaret Moonlight was designed as a Gothic Lolita and I give her extra style points since it's a look you don't see much in video games, let alone action games. But yes, it's a shame that she and a lot of the other characters didn't have much of an engaging personality compared to the first game And while I agree that Lollipop Chainsaw is sorta bottom of the barrel for a Suda51 game, I think it had some mildly entertaining qualities. I liked how the bosses represented music genres and their mini biography transition slides were quite cool looking. But hey, maybe I'm just too easily satisfied I'm starting to think lol
I like Let It Die. It’s like a homage to to previous Grasshopper games. The buff system with stickers and how you level up weapons comes from the DS game, Contact. The way you finish off the bosses on every 10th floor comes from Killer is Dead. The 10th floor bosses seem to set up like the bosses from No More Heroes. Meaning they’re characters you have to kill with backstories that are much better than your own. And some of the treasure chest take the form of silver briefcases. Bet you can’t figure out that reference. Some of the player characters could be references to Killer7.
It’s pretty much a JRPG, so of course it’s going to be grindy. Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Rogue Galaxy and so on. If you want to take on the hardest optional boss or dungeon, you’ll have to grind for experience and items to make it through.
I really like your point on how Grasshoper capitalized on one aspect of its reputation after being labeled for its particular flavor and how maybe it wasn't the smartest choice. I've felt that way for years about other franchises, some of them being my favorite. I felt like every journalist was so bent on calling Ratchet and Clank a Pixar movie that Insomniac just went full steam ahead with that, disregarding other aspects that were integral to the essence of the series. Same with God of War (before the reboot, at least, which I haven't played) : the media was so intent on calling out how the series pushed the violence further and further that it feels the devs almost felt obligated to steer the series in that way, forgetting some of the greater elements that were there in the foundations and got disregarded after.
Loved the video, glad you mentioned that Suda wasn't happy or totally involved with all the worst that came from the studio. I still see grasshopper manufacturer as my favorite developers and love seeing new IPs from them. SotD, lollipop, Killer is dead aren't great in a lot of regards (characters and story mostly) but enjoyed the simple gameplay. I hope TSA is come back to the killer 7 and NMH1 days and further new IPs directly from the studio instead of collaborations.
Because most fans don't even know what people actually want or are even the minority when it comes to "we want this and that" Especially the little amount of vocal GhM fans (who, ironically, barely know anything about GhM and Suda's directed work outside of K7 and NMH1)
@@anti-ethniccleansing465 Suda's games don't sell that we'll even though they are amazing so getting money for him is hard. Maybe with Platinums making the gameplay they can get good money for the game. Platinum also made good games but they didn't sell that we'll until Nier Automata. Glad it sold so much so now they can get more backing
@@aceofhearts573 Really? I thought Bayonetta sold really well?? And maybe Suda51 could do some fund raising from his cult fan base if that’s what’s needed.
I don't get what there is not to love about a chainsaw wielding cheerleader puffing up rainbows everywhere and killing rock n roll zombies. It is so delightfully weird that it is pretty much the definition of Japan.
It's funny since Travis strikes again is was a real step forward for suda, nmh3 kinda went back to zany in some parts I think, and gameplay wise tsa and nmh3 both have issues (not that nmh1 and nmh2 didn't-but) I kinda wish suda would direct a truly perfect game so I can praise him and grasshopper more. But I can't lie I do like the vibe of lollipop chainsaw
i think chainsaw is just suda sending a love letter to 80's and 90's b-movies. even got james gunn on board. violence, sex appeal, and b-movie cheese. it's not gonna make you think, but it's gonna show you a good time. and yeah the music was a big part of it. lewis' boss theme slaps.
Came here just to see if anyone else agreed. Of course the game has low points, but calling it "generic" is a bald face lie. Name one game where you fight a zombie that rids an elephant motorcycle that turns into a mech. Or a giant zombie Elvis.
In one of the games that Zero punctuation covered, he also mentioned how the games went from being complex to explain, then gradually becoming easy to summarise with each new entry.
first vid to my suda playlist. thanks for the video, its great. i played champloo, its repetitive and the ending isnt fully fulfilling but the voice cast is the whole tv crew except steve blum isnt mugen, instead its inuyasha.
I would love for you to continue your Onimusha retrospective. It just seems fitting that Onimusha Warlords now has been announced for XBOX ONE,PS4,Steam and Nintendo Switch and you can introduce new people to the series.
By the way I love the topics you cover on this channel. Grasshopper games, Platinum, Action games. No other RU-vidr would give a shit about a game like No more heroes. Keep up the great work my man.
Whenever I think of Grasshoper, it feels like there is that game in the back of my mind that I'm always forgetting that was actually great. Even in this video, it feels like one of them is missing... Anyway, I don't think Lollipop Chainsaw is that bad, I wish it would see a Steam release.
You should take a look at Ranko Tsukigime's Longest Day if you've never played it. I don't see it in your video and i think it's sad because it's probably the most sincere of the suda's last works (even if it's a Crispy's/Grasshopper video game inside the Short Peace multimedia project). It's a short and cheap and a little bit clunky game, but i think you definitely have to try it. Hope the K7 remastered is gonna pumped up Goichi for another dark and stylish and roots video game. Really nice video btw.
There's a completely forgotten little short game that was written and directed by Suda51 called "Ranko Tsukigime's Longest Day". I found it by pure chance years ago in a bargain bin and saw the name "Suda51" on it so I gave it a shot, and it definitely feels like it has a lot more of that personality that made me love his games in the first place. Shame it was just an extremely short tie-in with a series of short movies on PS3 because the story had a lot of potential.
If his resident evil videos are anything to go by, there'll probably be a large gap between each one. He likely does it to keep the content varied. We should get another Ninja Gaiden video eventually though
@hold ness I know, it really felt like he only did it because people wanted him to and he just wanted to get it over with. I was really disappointed when it didn't seem like he didn't even play the game above any difficulty above normal, Ninja Gaiden isn't made to be played on normal.
I disagree on the last point and I think that’s why Grasshopper became the company that it is now. They were a niche company making niche games, when for some reason Capcom gave them AAA budget to make the ultimate niche game which became Killer 7. After that came NMH which became their most successful title, and from that point forward they started to try to recapture that success, working with publishers that restricted their vision in exchange for budget. Also is very important to mention that the last game suda directed was the original NMH, focusing on running the company which probably has a lot to do in why their output changed.
I think the issue is that those other creators like Yoko Taro or Hideo Kojima are largely allowed by their publishers to create what they want to. In fact those publishers largely let them do so. And more importantly, it's only really their directed titles that are attributed to them. On the other hand Suda seems to have the misfortune of representing all of Grasshopper, even though he really wasn't as directly involved in any of the games between NMH1 and TSA. Not to mention, from what we heard about his interactions with EA for Shadows of the Damned, they essentially forced him/Grasshopper to create a title in the vein of a surface level understanding of his most popular title at the time, NMH1. So not only did you have a title he wasn't directing branded as a "Suda 51 game", you had one that had been influenced so much by publisher meddling it no longer even resembled anything he would've envisioned. He's at his best when he's allowed to do what he wants to do. If you read up on the lead up to Killer 7, it was essentially Shinji Mikami using his clout at Capcom (from his RE fame) to shield Suda from publisher interference and allowing him (actually imploring him) to go crazy and develop the game he wanted to and it shows
A Suda 51 game that I enjoyed that wasn't mentioned here was Liberation Maiden for the 3DS. Short as hell, but a pretty fun shoot-em-up. Then again, pretty sure he didn't have much to do with that title, but I remember him in the marketing of that game.
Grasshopper also made a pretty cool rpg on the ds called contact. It's not amazing, but it has some great music and characters as well as some interesting commentary on the rpg genre. I'd recommend it if you're into rpgs at all
Personally I wasn't too thrilled with TSA when I saw the gameplay. But actually getting it, I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Also I know this video is old, but Robin Atkin Downes did actually wind up voicing Travis in the game, there did wind up being stalls he would go to the bathroom in, and I dunno how well the game did but NMH3 is happening!
surprised you didn't mention 25th Ward here at all. despite mostly being an update of a phone game from 2005, suda had to write/direct some new chapters (the last 2 or 3 in the game, specifically) and they show he's still capable of making truly great stuff. travis strikes again is the first original game he's written and directed since NMH1, so who knows
I'm glad Travis Strikes Again is a smaller project with Marvelous publishing because while it may not be NMH3 like many people want after reading about how bigger publishers shifted the course of Grasshopper's games post NMH2, a smaller project with more creative freedom is what Suda seems to really want and need right now after hearing about his love for the indie game scene.
People want SUDA51 to make the deep stuff again, but there was barely even any support shown for english Kurayami Dance or 25th Ward recently- that's just sad considering how great 25W is and how intriguing KD is since it's part of Kill The Past
You summed up my thoughts pretty well. Killer7 and No More Heroes are highlights, while everything else Grasshopper has made since has left me cold. I have a special place in my heart for Killer is Dead as well. It's so stylish and convoluted, I couldn't help but like it. ^^ I didn't know that the Travis game for Switch wasn't actually No More Heroes 3. That was a big factor to save for a Switch and that's dampened a little. And while I can appreciate what The Silver Case and Flower, Sun & Rain are trying to do, the actual gameplay was so tedious that I felt negatively towards those games overall.
I loved both the original No More Heroes and Desperate Struggle, with my preference skewed toward the latter. Otherwise I agree with your assessment of this odd little studio and their output post-2010, with Killer is Dead being more of an exception than many give it credit for. Cheers for the heads up on that book too - should make for a fascinating read.
Y'know, i played Let it Die for a bit, it wasn't my thing but i can see how some people might be into it, but I don't resent Let it Die, because if there's one studio out there who deserves a live service money machine its Grasshopper Manufacture, certainly more than Epic deserves Fortnite, EA deserves Apex Legends and Bungie deserves Destiny. And if you're thinking that Grasshopper would've been able to bring The Silver Case to the west, or remaster Lollipop Chainsaw, Shadows of the Damned or make Travis Strikes Again and No More Heroes 3 without the resources given to them by Let it Die, think again. Yoko Taro lucked out with Square-Enix, but remember that his previous studio, Cavia, just died, closed it's doors and it's developers were scattered. Suda51 might be a great writer and director, but his games were not made just by himself, they require programmers, artists and y'know, sound people to assemble them. When I finished Death Stranding I was simultaneously surprised and not surprised to find a lot of the names I recognized from MGS in that game's credits (aside from Kojima of course)
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Fatal Frame 4, cause last I heard it was the last game Suda himself directed with him taking on more of a producer role for later games
Charlie you should do a video just for Killer 7. You've mentioned it a couple times already but its deserving of a video all to itself and is especially relevant with that new steam release coming up.
To be honest, the fact that Killer is dead is the only game that I've ever played & finished on PC told me that not only suda 51 has a very niche market & low marketing campaign, but also lost in exclusivity releases for the majority of the titles. I mean PC market has some of the most niche games out there & managed to make a name & release to consoles throughout the years. The market itself certainly a lot more forgiving & will give a bigger opportunity to build a franchise. maybe this is why Killer 7 turn out is gonna port release on PC too after all those years covered in the dust back in PS2 era. This is more apparent with No More Heroes TSA that exclusive to Switch. A game that I barely knew that it exist just recently only from this video.
Killer is Dead felt like half the plot was missing. I kept feeling like I was playing a concept rather than a full work. I was interested in the work but there were pieces missing.
Travis strikes again is being developed in collaboration with multiple indie studios. Let's hope it is more of a homage to different game genres rather than a confused, directionless mess!
