Really good and honest review! I also have a REALLY nice player from about that era (Krell KPS 28c) ...and this also blew anything else I‘ve heard so far away. The recommended retail price once was € 13.500.-. If this one had to be replaced I would also consider such an Audio Reseach CD player with tubes. My preamp is also a tube preamp 💪🏼
That was ace. The best video on this channel and one of the best explanations of what high end kit can bring to your system I've ever heard. Very well done Kelvin. You made me want this cd player. Much more please. 👍👍
Just bought one of these. Without doubt, the very best single box CDP ever made imho, at any price. The nearest you'll get to a top class vinyl system in sound. Completely natural, devoid of digital artefacts, very precise, layered, natural and with the biggest, widest, deepest soundstage you'll ever get from most players which sets it apart from the usual 2 dimensional presentation of most CDPs. The upgraded one has better bass control and depth...a little more linearity and headroom due to the power supply upgrades. Simply a benchmark product, even today.
Lovely CD player for sure, and yes I love your passion. I have an Audio Research LS3B pre, which I adore, and also a VS60 power amplifier, so I am sure a CD player like this would be a great addition to my system. Currently I use a Marantz SA15S1, which also has that bass detail that you describe, and a level of detail retrieval that I really love. Saying that, there are many CD players that can really surprise. Nice review Kelvin, many thanks, Rich
Really nice ! I'm a vinyl "lover" and collector, but i do also listen to CD's. I think, a really good CD-Player make sense. I have purchased an italian Player : NORMA CDP 1BR , and WOW !!! Maybe not at the same level as the Audio Research, BUT it is the money worth ! Compliment for your review :-)
Most high end players are also built like brick outhouses and will easily outlast newer, more flimsily built gear. My Meridian 606/606 cd and dac are over 30 years old and still in use in my bedroom system! Sounds awesome, too.
Hi Kelvin. I hope you are doing well these days. Crazy world we've been through in the last few years. Seeing you do what you do here has always put a smile on my face. It's amazing how much we have in common even though we are on opposite side of the Atlantic Ocean. I geuss we're pretty close in years. Just love listening to good music on cool stuff. I saved all my grass mowing money in seventies and bought my first system with all my savings and boy was I a happy camper! Love to see ya do a video sometime if you have time for it. Peace and well wishes friend.
Enjoyed this. Given the title I thought you were going to rip it to shreds but glad you didn't: this tells us, your dear viewers, that you aren't biased towards vintage whilst eschewing everything else. And yes, I too would love to own this CD spinner!
Brilliant stuff Kelvin. I was lucky enough to experience a taste of high end in my early twenties. It's given me something to aim at for over three decades and with careful buying and component swapping internally, I think I've achieved something pretty darn close. My reference system has a Musical Fidelity A3.2 CD player which I have fully recapped with much better caps. However, the biggest transformation was when I swapped the chip opamps for Burson Audio V6 Vivid component opamps. Total cost, if you buy the CD player second hand and have the work done for you, would be around £1,000. Bargain! More of these please. ;-) Cheers Mark
Really good! I've been thinking a lot about this. Provides perspective on all reviews of high-end audio. Something I hardly get with my Quad Vena and XTZ EDGE A2-300😂. Keep up the good work!
My whole system consist of Audio Research, the ds450, Cd3, Ph8, LS27 and Dac 8. My dealer had a cd7 and a cd8, both used. I listen to both CD players for over a week each and you are absolutely correct for the two weeks that I had both players, I didn’t miss vinyl. The cd8 is actually a better player with the major difference being the upgraded power supply of the cd8. Audio Research did offer the upgraded power supply at one point for the cd7. Both players make you realize just how good cd playback can be, which is just outstanding. The cd8 is the best CD player that I have ever heard in my home and you can listen to both of these players for hours on end. Both players are mind blowing, he is right, they are vinyl like. My Cd3 (solid state) is very good, but the cd7 and cd8 are next level. They all look and operate the same way except the cd1 and cd2, which I had as well, but the tube based models are longer to support the tubes. You will never see a cd7 or cd8 ( both 8000 new, used for 3000 to 3300 for cd7 and 3700 to 4400 used for the cd8) for a grand unless they are broken down. My Cd3 used runs for a grand used (5500 new) if you are extremely lucky enough to find one that low, which I did and I made the dealer change my lcd display because they will all get really dim and unreadable after a while. The cd6 and cd9 tubes with built in Dac are good, but the cd9 new was 12,000 about 8500 to 9500 used. Audio research always brings their A game when it comes to CD players, not that their other stuff especially their tube amps and preamps aren’t outstanding as well.
I have an Oppo BDP-83 that is really affordable on the used market. Originally I think it was $500 plus tax 10 or so years ago new. If you can get your hands on one of those I'd love to see you review one of those. I think its pretty fantastic but I'd like to see how it stacks up against some higher-end dedicated CD Players.
Nice review mate,that's the sort of sound quality we all strive for. Music like Pink Floyd,King Crimson ,Tool would sound absolutely awesome through that player.
The two most important parts of any digital device are the DAC and the analog output circuit. Most CD players weren't built with much money in those areas because it's expensive to do it right. It doesn't matter how good an amp is if the source device doesn't put out clean tight bass, sweet mids and all the good stuff, because amps just amplify what goes in.
Tubes in CD players are a common thig since forever. I have a similar Musical Fidelity player, also 15 years old, and you can get them for 1300-1500 Pounds now (6500 USD new in 2005). MF said at the time that the tubes will last 100.000 hours, but I got some replacements just in case. Of course it will not last another 20 years, caps go dry everywhere, no matter the price ;) I would like a dCS player one day, but the cheapest stacks (transport, DAC, upsampler, clock) are still at least ca 5K... which is still better than 80K new ;) You need to check this individually, but replacement lasers/drives can typically still be had for 30-100 USD for any old player, so it is not super risky buying one of these monsters, if you think they are worth 1500 bucks... for me, if it mainly a fetish item.
Just watched this video in Sept 2023 so not sure if you even see these late-comer comments. Regardless, thanks for the great info! I’ve been told by multiple dealers that this CD player can sound somewhat dry and clinical unless matched with the a warmer sounding amp/speakers. Am considering an ARC CD7 I found online but now am concerned on how that CD player may sound with my Luxman 550 axii class A amp and Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers….wondering if you are familiar with these components and system match, or if not, whether you think the CD7 would match well with Tannoy Prestige Gold Reference speakers you more recently reviewed….your comments on those speakers seemed similar to comments on the Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers. Thank you!
We once made a blind test in the late eighties. A top class turntable against a variety of cd players from consumer to top class. At the end they were only two cd players that delivered sound as well as the turntable ( a big Denon deck with a top class Ortofon MC) a mid price Sony CDP-950 and a first generation Technics SL-P10. The Technics and the turntable were soundwise an exact match.
Great review dear, some experience , yes the big sony have top end mechanic but the best sounding sony in my exoerience is the 227esd and the cdp 710 both using the best old philips tda dac!!!!...and my vote for accesible topsound dac audio research : the dac1 its top and i payed mine 250 euros....very analogic sound ...no expensif valves to change..its transistor but musical...
Oh lucky you to hear this caliber of stuff at home. You do have a knack of hitting home what mortal and modest HiFi and music fans want/need to find out. What wisdom can be taken from this video is that you need a balanced system. There’s no point in feeding a high end signal into an average amp and speakers and visa versa. Cheers
Looks like you really got an eye opener there :-) But it left me wondering about the digital processing techniques over time. Have you tried it with another more humanely priced transport? Or have you tried it with a modern DAC example some of the lower priced from Schiit, Chord, Audiolab etc.? Just to decode the magic that you found. I had a similar experience once just with much lower priced CD-player from Musical Fidelity. Nice reviews and keep them coming :-)
Only problem is when they do go wrong it’ ends up being a very expensive and large paperweight. The transport is obsolete. My Naim CD5x which is nowhere near the class of the Audio Research has suffered the same fate. Gutted cos I loved it while it was working
Another great review. I think Kelvin puts the music first and I don't get that sense with the hi-end club, many of who seem more into the gear. God the product design though on that monster. It looks like some unit at Nasa. But perhaps the customers who bought it wanted that. I think so much of it comes down to the music, quality of the recording. I have a very humble system so not sure I always notice the difference between vinyl and CD. In CD favour a album such as Brian Eno's Apollo Atmosphere and Soundtracks is just unlistenable on vinyl, unless you have a super immaculate cleaner. The very quiet passages in the music are ruined by dust. With CD you never have to worry. I've noticed bass is often better or different with vinyl so benefits reggae and bass heavy music. Shame Kelvin can't play a music clip just for less than a minute? It it copyright.
Proud audio community here in Minneapolis. Audio Research, Bel Canto, Audio by Van Alstine and I thought there was another. And let's not forget Best Buy :)
It's a beautiful piece of kit, no doubt about that. I can't see how it can sound any different from any other functional CD-player though. You know, since all reasonably good CD-players have a dead flat frequency response from 20hz-20khz and vanishingly low distortion, which would mean that they're transparent (and by definition sound exactly the same). I suspect the differences people hear between digital sources is mostly due to output level (it can differ quite a lot between units). Jitter is mostly a myth, it exists but is almost always at least 80dB (or more) below the signal. I guess there could be some audible differences due to some of the electrical components in a vintage piece like this giving up because of old age (or at least going off spec).
Well this thing has valves in it . You know that valve does a certain thing to a sound that transistors just won’t do It’s not until you hear these expensive CD players that you realise how good the source of the CD can be it did surprise me .
@@stereoreviewx It does? It looked so laboratory-esque and professional I just assumed they were going for a flat response (and oh I mostly watch these videos during lunch at work where I sometimes get interrupted, so must've missed that part of the breakdown). Yeah, valves could make it sound different of course. But, you could probably simulate that response (treble roll-off and added harmonic distortion basically) with DSP for a lot less. Although, you'd need someone to buy it and measure it first. But like I said, it's a great looking piece. That counts for much. Love your speaker reviews btw.
Back in the 80's I had a very large Sansui Receiver that had a 7 band graphic equalizer. Don't know if it was the same as the one you were referring to.
You have explained really well what high end audio does. This is why when I look at reviews of low to mid price equipment on RU-vid, I ignore them unless they really understand what hi end audio can do to put that review into context. So, has this changed how you listen to hi-fi and how you will do your reviews? Have your terms of reference changed? By the way I’m now going to subscribe. By the way I think you are wrong about small speakers until you hear a small high on speaker such as Focal utopia Diablo, Wilson Duet, Raidho D1. I have and I’m sure you will be shocked.
The biggest problem with sampling extreme high end equipment like this is it creates dissatisfaction I have heard some really high-end equipment before that I didn’t even like it was too stylised I think time will tell if I can cope without these great things The Sansui a u 101 15 W per channel is still one of my favourite amps they go for 100 odd pounds
@@stereoreviewx I kind of agree with you. Set up and matching with high end is critical otherwise it does not “work”. A bit like an F1 car, but when it does work, the results are mind blowing. That describes my journey.
A friend of mine has the current Rega Saturn CD player and he says it plays everything really, really well. When a piece of kit makes you only want to listen to certain types of music - or music production - then it seems it's really good in one area but lacking in a lot of other areas. I've got a pair of Tannoy Eatons and they're great with well-recorded and well-produced music with good dynamic range. When I play modern 'remastered' CDs though, some of them just make you want to press stop almost as soon as you've pressed play. I guess trying to find the best compromise is the name of the game, eh?
Placing that cap over the CD probably reduces jitter a lot, plus the tube analog stage takes a lot of the "crispness" out of the CD playback. AR has always made interesting hardware.
Valves with digital is new to me with a history of electronics. Do you know the DAC frequency? This must have a high sampling rate to justify the output valve stage. I guess the limiting factor here is the human ear - and ageing too... Thanks for the video.
Honestly, I reckon this sounds better than great vinyl. Even the best vinyl has surface noise, and that is why I've always favoured reel to reel tape for an analogue source and CD and SACD for digital. Even with the tape his and the other drawbacks of reel to reel tape, it beats even the best vinyl by a long shot.
A 15 year old Audio Research CDP with a valve / tube analog output stage. This only proves how a good analog stage trumps a sophisticated DAC with a badly ececuted analog stage. The bread and butter of my hi fi repair biz is mosty on modding entry level universal disc players (ones that play CDs, DVDs, SACDs, etc.) with badly executed analog output stages. Most offer much improved sound just by replacing a bog standard LM 741 IC amp to one with a higher slew rate. Using valves / tubes in the analog output stage to improve a 200 quid universal disc player made after 2012 can make it sound like it is a 6,000 quid CD player made in 1995.
@@stereoreviewx Any Brit who can turn a mid 1960s Fender Princeton guitar amp into one of those famed Duble amps can easily do what I do. Or are they now not as common today as they are back in the mid 1990s? 🤔
Audio Research. Now owned by the McIntosh Group. Audio Research, Highly regarded here in the U.S. I'm saving my Pennies for a used (can't afford new at $17,000 U.S. Dollars.) Audio Research, Reference 6se tube preamp to pair with my McIntosh 611 mono block amps. Should make my JBL's sing! Tube preamps and solid state amp pairing is a popular thing here.
US price was $8,995. Using the 2007 conversion rates, that would have been about £4500. The biggest problem would be service - here in the US, Audio Research supports all the product they ever made, but I don't know about the UK. They are well-known for using proprietary parts and circuits.
You can't unhear gear like this once you experience it. The problem with these old high end CD players is that they don't make replacement transport/lens pickup when these fail. You keep and use it it enough and it will eventually fail. Hope audio research has a stock of replacements. It won't be cheap if they do. When you get up in this high end territory I would just get a dcs Bartok dac/preamp/streamer/headphone amp and be done. It's expensive and their cheapest but it will put to shame about any streamer, CD player, streamer and headphone amp out there. And game stuff that is some if the best out there. Who needs a car? 😀
Pair that amp with a modern speaker of some size and you'll be blown away. New speakers really has gotten a lot better and affordable recent years. Some YT reviewers measures good off axis response in speakers costing sub 800 pounds new now. Folding ribbon is one example which has gotten very cheap these last years and is used in many inexpensive speakers. They can sound extremely precise and natural for not much money.
Interesting that you found the high end Sony to be rather ordinary after listening to the AR. Do you think there is a DAC out there that approaches the AR sound quality at a reasonable price? I do see AR have the tube DAC9 for $$$$. I just got the Sony model just prior to the one you listened to for $200 and it is the best I have ever heard. I am intrigued by what you heard though.
If I had ten times the money to spend on hi-fi that I have I could consider such a machine, because I would have to upgrade everything else as well. Maybe I will try a Musical Fidelity X10D (valve line stage) some time to ad some valves to the equation.
yeah, valves add benign distortion, I expect. AR, imo, is developed through measurement rather than listening, like Quad did at its start. I've experimented with valve preamp(Luxman) into transistor (Nakamichi)power amps. - you were lucky, interface is a natural mismatch electrically, usually. usually better to be all-valve or all SS, mo. need to try comvbination before you buy, really. big gamble otherwise.CD players seem much the same to me, I experiment with low-cost DACs from Muse,Fiio. its the low sampling rate that limits quality, imo.- can't be overcome. vinyl - analogue rules. ) thanks for thereat vids, Kelvin, hope YT makes it worth your while.
Calvin. This is where you need to start introducing a Subwoofer. Your amp probably doesn't have the power to produce this kind of bass through your speakers but that's assuming your speakers can reproduce this level of bass. But the signal is there. Please please integrate a sub. You're really missing out without one. Especially with smaller speakers. If you can run a sub under 100Hz you should never hear it. The augmentation will be as if your speakers have amazing bass. Anyway I'm sure you know all this. Great video as always. Cheers. Matt the speaker restorer from Devon 😁😁
Hi Matt yes I had a few bad experiences with subwoofers them being obvious and sometimes even softer in the base which I was a bit annoyed bye I should probably revisit this area thanks K
Does it get significantly better than the Audio Research? Yessir. If you ever get a chance try the CH Precision gear, jump. All CH Precision gear for that matter. Unbelievably, mind meltingly expensive, other worldly good. Also the DaVinci digital gear. Just insanely good...and insanely priced. Sorry people. You can get really good gear for a fraction of the cost of this stuff, but you're denying, fooling, or deluding yourself if you think you can get as good or better.
I have something newer and better than than that AR. My player is about 12k on the used market today. I went through budget and mid price kit over the years. I've learned that for that really special sound, there is a high cost but the level of enjoyment in listening to a high end sound is immense. Don't be fooled by magazines that say a 800 pound player or amp will blow you away. It wont. I too could only afford cheap kit when I was young. I once fooled myself into believing an Aiwa system was hi fi! Lol, you do silly things when your young and skint! That really special sound comes at some considerable cost!
@@stereoreviewx There is a lot of cheap tube preamp/headphone amps around. I am going to pair one (probably the “little dot”) with a SS power amp and see if I like it. The journey is what it’s all about and with the affordable low end electronics available from direct to consumer companies and refurbished and vintage gear the price for a ticket on this journey is very reasonable. Thanks again for sharing your time and passion for audio!
may I ask how hot it runs, and if it runs hotter when cd slide door is open? How long does a set of valves last? Because of all the ventilation holes on top and on sides, does it collect a lot of dust, or is it negligable? Anything else one should know? Thanks for sharing. Very nicely explained. Kind regards.
Safe to say you like it kelvin. Must be great if money is no object a different world is available to you. Pity I like you will never be able to afford this kind of quality. Love to sit down in front of a dogs bollocks system and listen to the difference that a fat wallet can give you and just say wow!!
There is no risk, I have owned a CD5, CD7 and now a REF CD 9 £16k the 9 whoops the CD7 ass, Audio Research warranty their products for ever you'll have to pay for parts and shipping though. A high end turntable £26-45k still beats it depending upon the cartridge.
Sorry, but I see, or rather hear it, a little bit different. I've listened to many good and not so good hifi gear pieces over the last 42 years, and I'll say I've also listened to many LP players, which did not sound that good after all. Just because it's vinyl, it doesn't automatically sound extremely good. Yes, there are very good LP players out there, some old and some new ones, but that goes for cassette players, reel players and cd' players as well. And you have to maintain or rather protect your ears over all the decades. I always took loud music with great precaution, as I found it disturbing. And I didn't want my hearing ability diminished unnaturally. So, each to his own, and I still experiment with various old cd-players. and I agree, some of the old top end models are solid monsters, which can give pc drive a good run for the money. I know what I want, that's for sure. No computer cd drive and no streaming to me thanks. And I also like to go and listen to the music in real life. For example a full symphonic orchestra is really something to behold. Best wishes of many good listening hours from her eon. Kind regards.
