Suris the Skeptic vs Mike Winger vs Ocean Keltoi Debate Pt 2 

Moderator: where might Ocean and Mike agree? Ocean: we agree on aspects of the cosmological argument. Mike: Me? Agree with a Pagan? That can’t happen! Better make sure everyone knows the differences!

Norse pagan here but I love how mike winger once proved wrong says this isn't related to the topic or let's move on

While I am an Atheist I have studied the Greek mythos a lot and while it's true that Chaos came to be in a sense though it is not quite that simple. Chaos was the beginning point. The idea of before Chaos makes no sense because before is an idea that requires time and Chaos created time.

Hitchens said it best; passing off your moral obligation is horrible, unthinkable and laughable. The entire concept of a scapegoat manifest in human form is the worst of bronze-age thinking. You do the crime, you do the time...nobody takes that 'sin' off your hands for you. Nobody washes you clean after you've murdered your family (but accepted Jesus into your heart). What a horrible concept indeed!

I don't appreciate the Christian implying that I am "morally reprehensible" unless I've accepted Christ.

Mike likes to use articles of faith to defend articles of faith.

Mike Winger seems like he is the type to butt into a random conversation in public and try to convert people.

I'm really late to the party. Mike's position is based entirely on the fact that scripture is real therefore his beliefs are proven. It's nonsensical. Christianity offers a system of saving the soul after creating the issue that the soul needs to be saved. I think that's why they have a hard time understanding our polytheist views.

Wait...so what happened when all the people of the earth spoke the same language? Why did God have to wait for "Roman roads" to get the message out to everyone Mike?

I would love for you and winger to have long discussions

I have always tought the redemption story To be nothing more than a guilt trip with a toutch of emotional manipulation.

I don't think Mike Winger understood the term (demonstrable) at the time of this debate.

Hang the fuck on he's never heard the term "Gish Gallop"? This wasn't a fight, it was an execution! Ocean it's not like it's your show or anything but it was frankly unethical to put you in the ring with him.

Ahahahaha they covered mike with the banner ad!!!!

“Christians took the sword around” instant radio silence 😂 mic drop

If you are not to be forced to accept the Christian God, why do people proselytize?

Ocean and all those other people are better people than I am, and more patient. My eyes would be rolling at that Mike guy almost as soon as he first opened his mouth

27:10 (ish). Mike Winger goes on a big discussion about the redemption and what Christ's death/redemption part of the religion means. Does he not realise how much the language he's using makes him sound like a polytheist? Christ is doing all this so his pappy Sky-Father's dream/wants can come about. I'm strangely reminded of Odin and the Vakyrie.

I’ve notice this a lot about Mike when he is being dismissive or condescending towards other equal unprovable religions…he basically resorts to a “my god’s better than your god” argument. Then cue smug laugh…..

I like this community.

I hate to be that guys, but i have graduate of middle age study and archive from Université de Montréal. Codex where made in the middle age and not in the time of Christ also they are everything but cheap if not, the most expensive. An bible can take around 300 sheeps for their skin and years to make.This is regardless the cost of ink and illuminations. Futhermore, one of the reason why the chruch re use old Pagan text was that it was really expensive to make new one and od course, they judge that oagan knowlege was a waste of this material. (Last rent promise) but, the antiquity was not the "best time of transmission of the word of christ". In fact, this era we live in right now his mainly describe of one of information. We are bombard everyday by ton of information and anybody can use it to reach anyone on earth. Anyway, has always, good debate!

Spoilers for Gardians of the Galexy Vol.3 This is my first time watching these old debates, and im drawing a lot of parallels between the Christian god and the High Evolutionary especially from the Gardians of the Galexy Vol.3, How he destroyed counter earth because he want the perfect being. And I'm truly sorry for spoilers for the people who haven't seen it, I figured its been out of a little bit

I think everyone who believes in hell as a place where people who dont believe in god are punnished for eternity and still follow this god have Stockholm Syndrom Because if god gave us free will so that we have a choice to belive ore not but if you dont he punishes you for eternity its not a free choice Like if somone Puts a gun to your head and tells you to give him your money or he will kill you you technickly have a choice but its definitiv not one you chose freely And they still follow the Person who treten them will eteenal tourment and say that he is omnibenevolent Sorry but i dont believe that and if that is the case than he cant be the god as Spoken of in the bible becaus he isnt omnibenevolent and at that point how can anyone trust in the bible to the extend that you can say that god is alswo all powerfull and all knowing At the end that makes him only one of many gods and an evil manypulativ god at that and therefor one who doesnt deserve worship

The peanut butter that tastes twice as good, lasts half as long.

Based on his arguments, Mike sounds like the type of person to stand by and watch an atrocity believing that his god "is working good through the hardships" and still believe his god is good. I've learned that trusting anyone with this mentality is a very dangerous thing to do as they have no ethics that are derrived from something other than "if I disagree, god will send me to hell".

The bible says the world is round like a disk

This entire panel turned out to be either abusive, creepy or weird 4 years later lol

Hi Ocean. I could feel your genuine seeking. I come from hinduism and just few months ago let go of all my thinking and insensibly chose to get Jesus a go as nothing else was giving me clarity, or peace or purpose. It was magical what happened inside my heart. Its like everything within transformed magically. Very difficult to explain. I still laugh n giggle about how many times and decades was jesus reaching out and i rejected him offensively. I never comment but i could feel connect at the point of why is god not revealing

19:42 Thank you, many religions use the word holy.

why do christians do this. pick apart your ideas and honest reason and refit it to their worldview

Mike doesn’t belong on here. Get a Jesuit or something

"In genuine freeness", that statement is false, Yahweh basically tells people" love me or else, I'll send you to hell".

What is God without the omni aspects?

Steve McReason! 🤣👌

Jesus says he is a son of god not I am the only son of god. he also says we are all children of god the christians translate it wrong from hebrew i think it's a good arrangement to use against christians who don't know what the correct translation is. they have often used the argument that he is God's only son, but that is not what Jesus says, he says he is a son of God, he is 1 out of all people hmm......

We have a creator and he is in the Bible but this is not the only place you find him. Believing means you live on after the end of the earth. And many people don't have all the answers from the bible because they not looking at the culture at the time and thinking that he has control over the wrong that happens in the world. But because we have free will we are the ones that have control. But if we use him book with our free will all would be different in the world today. Plus, I know this is a fact because I died for over an hour and no one could restart my heart during this time. The ENT got me to the hospital and they were about to tell my husband I was not going to make it and my heart restarted they said on it own. My body sat up and took a breath and fell back on the grunee and my heart started again. Less than 1% of people have this kind of miracle happen to them. I have always believed in our Creator and the bible. He is real and he love each one of you that is on this show. We have the answers we just have to learn how to understand the writes to know him. And remember that No one will be completely right in the end days but your faith in him will save you for your end. May each of you be blessed. Maybe you all are the reason he sent me back so you will believe like me. I was going to heaven but who can say no to him that needs a favor to save others. I couldn't.

Ocean keeps jumping around.. not staying on any topics.. becomes not interesting because no one gets pressed..