The difference is even more stark between winter tires and summer tires. I spent most of my life driving cars with all-seasons, and my first experience with summer tires on snow was shocking. I'm convinced most people who think their car is horrible on snow really just have the wrong tires.
Yes, I have been on all types, and there is a continuum. A below average winter tire and above average all season might be about equal in snow. But Summer tires are absolutely unusable on snow and ice. Just for fun I went around the block on my real Summer tires on the first snow dusting of 1 cm, I was fighting to stay on the road at 15 KM/h. It was just sliding off the small crown in the road you don't even think exists in normal conditions. Lately for my non-sports cars, I am interested in All-Weather tires that tilt more in favor of winter performance. I wouldn't ever use them on my Miata, because they would suck in summer and likely get destroyed by spirited driving.
Yeah, summer tires on snow are just hilarious. I got caught out one time on my Pilot Supersports, and once there was the lightest dusting of snow on the ground there was basically no ability to stop whatsoever. (Fortunately I was almost home when it started, and managed to limp it back to the garage without incident!)
After 30 years of driving, this was the first winter I've used winter tires and I can't believe the difference. Luckily we had plenty of snow and cold days this winter for me to test them out. I'm definitely sold on them.
Just went through a "Winter Storm" here in Texas last week . Needless to say, the results were inevitable . People driving like it's summer. I understand a one week storm does not warrant snow tires but it does warrant slowing down and no sudden maneuvers. I moved here from Chicago many years ago and am still amazed how poorly Texans drive in just a dusting of snow
It's thanks to you guys that I know you can drive a RWD car in the winter and I do! BRZ daily driver on Blizzaks in New England. It's surprisingly good in snow. Ground clearance is really the only issue.
Almost every car made was rear wheel drive for many decades. Didn't stop us geezers from going out! Modern snow tires are incredible. Unless you live in an extremely hilly area, or get lots of snow and can't wait for the plows to clear streets, then RWD is fine with the right tires. Drifting through corners in winter is so fun, I go out in snow just for the sport of it.
multiple decades of driving in the snow on whatever cheap ass tires I could afford not gonna lie more grip is better but driving smarter, leaving room to stop taking into account that you don't have the grip has always worked for me.
@Alaberti totally my fault, was young and trying to drive a stick like I knew what I was doing....downshifted to the wrong gear.....appears to be an interference engine....😬
Winter tires seem like a frivolous expense until the first of many times they save your life and others lives. My first time on snow tires blew my mind, even with AWD.
The other thing to remember is that over the long term the expense isn't that great. If you're switching between two sets of tires when the seasons change, they all last twice as long, so over the long term you're not actually buying more tires. And if you get a cheap set of winter wheels, you can swap them yourself, so it's really just a half hour of your time twice a year.
@@autotempest One issue is the winter capabilities diminish as the tread wears. So you can't run them down to 4/32" like you may have with other tires. Or you can, but your results will change dramatically as they wear.
@@kevin9c1 Good point. Although I guess you could argue that even a worn winter tire is going to be better than a summer tire, so even if you run them down you'd still be better off. (But yeah, you shouldn't.) Edit: and often winter tires come with more tread to start with than summers, so perhaps that makes up for having to replace them with more...
Love this episode. Well, I typically love them all. But I daily drive a 94 Miata R package, and change wheels and tires according to the season. Running Michelin X-Ice Xi3 this winter and last, with plenty of snow this year. Coworkers think I am crazy using a RWD sports car in the snow, they believe you have to have 4WD or AWD, and yet they run the same no-seasons year round.
I have daily driven an NC MX-5 in the Minnesota Twin Cities metro area for 4 years, after 8 years of an RX-8 as a year round daily. I have never had a problem in the winter with dedicated winter tires. You are totally correct, with all season tires in winter snow and ice you are completely screwed.
RWD has an undeserved reputation for being bad in slippery conditions based on peoples' experiences with pickup trucks and the like that don't have their weight balanced for good handling. I find it preferable to FWD since the same tires aren't being asked to both transmit power and steer. I'm glad to see this video helping educate people on that.
The good ole days, a cheap, junk 66 Mustang convertible, bald bias ply tires, crappie and worn drum brakes, leaking shockers, squaking suspension brought over from the Ford Falcon; how did we survive? More worried about the old heater hose holding out. Couldn't get the windshield too warm because the ice would melt and drip in your lap, wet pants not good. And it was uphill both ways! You young whiper snappers and your fancy German roadsters with antilocks have it sooo good! :)
I used to daily drive my 67 Mustang that we have featured on this channel twice through the Utah winter with no heater! I know what you mean! But I greatly prefer my current daily on winter tires lol
When my wife and I went to get new tires on her Subaru she tried to go with the cheaper tires. I told her that tires are not the thing you want to cheap out on and the sales guy just nodded. She isn’t a car person at all but she noticed the difference on the first turn out of the parking lot. Amazing content as always guys, thank you for your hardwork and effort masking these videos.
This was my first winter with our new (to us) Lexus GS350 AWD on brand new General Alitmax Arctics, and we got a lot of snow. I couldn't get the damn thing to slide even with the traction control fully off, and I couldn't do entertaining snow burnouts.. the thing just hooked up and launched. This wasn't my first winter on snow tires, but it was my first winter with a powerful AWD car with snow tires. I was genuinely impressed both with the GS and the snow tires. I was also bored.
GS350 RWD owner here, good to hear ur GS was doing well in snow with the Generals. I was stuck in half inches of snow in last Seattle winter with Dunlop Signature HP all-season tires. I learned a heavy lesson.
Good thing most people here in Germany still have both, dedicated summer and winter tires. All seasons sound pretty bad since they are always some kind of compromise.
I dont know about the rest of Canada but here in quebec it's required by law to have snow tires. It wasn't always like this, but its definetly a good thing
@@cayman9873 Quebec has socialist health care, socialist car insurance and socialist electricity. The lights are on, the people don't go broke when they're sick, and there are many fewer road accidents and deaths during the winter now that winter tires are compulsory.
When you said both had open differentials, that just made me sad. (Mostly because I firmly believe any RWD vehicle with sporting pretensions ought to have an LSD.)
Right after the new year I moved from San Jose to a suburb about 15 miles outside of Seattle. When we got our 8-10" of snow 2 weeks ago I got a true introduction to winter driving. In November last year I picked up a 2018 SQ5 in part because of the AWD system to deal with the winter weather the PNW can get. It came with Bridgestone All Season's which I thought would be sufficient at least in snow, and boy was I wrong. Everything you said in this video 100% aligned with my own experience driving in snow. Even with quattro, I didn't feel like I had true control over where I was going or when it is that I could reasonably stop. It was an incredibly uncomfortable feeling to have. Since we're through what is typically the coldest part of the season up here I don't feel compelled to replace the tires just yet, but without question by the fall I'll have those winter rated tires on my car because that feeling was so uncomfortable and deeply concerning that I'd rather spend $1000+ replacing tires that look to have maybe 7000 miles on them as of now than to risk another season of "maybe I can control my car, maybe I can't". Great film, guys.
The video illustrates the differences perfectly. The all season tires essentially have shockingly little grip in all directions: They are terrible for braking, they are even worse for handling.
These winter tire videos that come out every year when it gets colder are so weird to see for those who learned to drive in countries where winter tires are mandatory during the colder months. I mean, 99% of people here put them on not because it is required by law, but because from their very first moments behind the wheel they saw what a difference it makes and it's been a no-brainer ever since. No one takes all-weathers seriously around where I live.
I lived in Norway with only a MX-5 as a car. With the right tyres, it works like a charm in the snow even as a RWD because its weight is perfectly spread.
I have winter tires on my car, but my work cars all have All Season tires. So when I go from my car to the work car it’s a world of difference. You feel it right away when you hit the gas and the car doesn’t move at all where my personal car had no issue starting from a stop in the parking lot.
As a Canadian, who grew up learning to drive in Quebec with bikes and cars, I have never underestimated proper winter tyres. My front wheel drive, my all wheel drive and my rear wheel drive cars all ran some form of Nokian. In fact the last major winter roadtrip I took was to Florida from Toronto and naturally back the tyres played a big part. The car ? Subaru BRZ on Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2s, with my all seasons in the trunk. In Georgia, at the welcome center, I swapped over, enjoyed the warm weather and roads in the sun and on the way back, swapped back. Yes, the capability for "taking the tyres to the track" came in handy in an all together different manner. By the time I got within reach of the great lakes, snow, ice and pretty nasty visibility. But with great tyres and a good balance, the car just shrugged it off and got me home with a smile. Buy winter tyres, put them on specific rims, and swap them in as needed. You'll enjoy driving more, will get to corner and stop better. And maybe avoid others who are still delusional about "no season" tyres as they slide through intersections.
Something not brought up in this video but worth mentioning about winter tires, is that the rubber compound used in most is designed to still be pliable and sticky in sub freezing or even sub-zero temperatures. I can tell a difference in grip between my all seasons and winter tires on dry pavement when the temperatures are very cold. Many mornings, I do my commute in -10F (-23C) so having the right rubber compound really matters.
Winter tires are wonderful. Pretty much no point in CA outside of the high mountains, but my few years in Seattle I ran dedicated winter/summer sets and even tho the winters were mostly overkill for Seattle winters they were wonderful on those freezing days and especially the rare snowy days, and totally unbeatable in the rain.
I've driven a Gen 7 Celica in heavy snow with a full set of winters; absolutely astonishing how well it held the road. Completely remapped my idea of driving in winter. I now run an old Octavia workhorse with a full set of all seasons which I keep fitted all the time. Not as excellent as winters of course but here in the north of England which doesn't often get heavy long lasting snow, all seasons are an excellent compromise. I'm convinced that standard summer tyres are a dangerous waste of time in winter conditions. I'm also convinced that 95% of 4x4/AWD drivers have wasted their money.
Hey, it's Utah! I 100% agree on needing winter tires unless you live in the valley, snow is always weak AF there. As long as all seasons can cut through the snow and touch the ground, they do much better. It's when the snow is packed that they become completely worthless.
Drive a midsize pickup year round. Notoriously light rear end, (added sandbags to help), run a set of nokians and drive in RWD 98% of winter (unless we get a dump). Had the misfortune of being caught out early season with worn AT's, on icy roads, absolutely terrifying. Extremely thankful to have been driving middle of the night with no-one else around. Swapped tires next morning.
A second set of tires (Blizzaks) for winter in Michigan has been a great investment. Mounted on used set of wheels so I can easily switch out when needed. Less expensive than regular tires and the right tool for the job. Even have them for my daughter's car and it gives me peace of mind to know she is prepared for safe winter driving.
In the northeast most commuters just buy CUVs and gimped part time AWD systems and think they are invincible in the snow. Its always funny seeing them fight for grip while my little ole civic Si with WS90s can plow through the snow like its rain.
In SW WA, we get so little snow anymore that it's more like simply driving as though it's winter when the snow does appear. We just don't get an accumulation of snow long enough to justify actual Winter tires. It was literally two weeks ago in fact that we got our first snow (more than 1/4 of an inch) of this winter. I miss the old days when we could get snow to stick around for several weeks, but I don't miss the series of drivers who don't know how to drive in it. You just can't drive the same way in snow as you do any other time. Especially here where we almost always get 1/4 of an inch of ice on top of it.
I'm just watching this video a year after you released it, but, your Cheap Sports car video led me to buy a one owner Chrysler Crossfire - for 6500$. As the vehicle I owned for 13 (!) Years finally died, I realized I needed to find something cheap in the interim, thus the Crossfire. I also had a set of Continental Viking Contact Snows installed two months ago, as we usually get quite a bit of snow here in Central Massachusetts. With their super low profile, I wasn't sure what to expect, but, they've been a Godsend so far this Winter! Now.... Just have to get a set of Summer tires in a few months. And yes, the Crossfire, since it's basically a Mercedes SLK, doesn't have EVERY system running well, but, it drives well and that's what counts.... Especially in today's used car market, where everything is overpriced!
In my productive days my clients were scattered all over the state of Maine and I was on the road four and sometimes five days a week year round. In those days the only viable option for me was to run studded snow tires on all four wheels (rear wheel drive cars). After retiring I lived in a more rural area and I had a series of Audi Quattros which performed extremely well on all season tires. Last May I bought a "new" (17000 mile) 2004 Mercedes CLK. My intent was to drive it year round although not in severe weather conditions when I'd stay home or take the 4X4 truck. But it had been a very long time since I had driven a Mercedes rear wheel drive vehicle in winter, so I did as I had done years ago and bought winter wheels and since I had no need for every day driving in the car, proper winter tires with the three peak/snowflake symbol. While we didn't have a tremendous amount of snow this winter the big difference that I could feel in just very cold driving, was that the tires were far more responsive generally than any other sort of snow or cold weather tires than I have ever experienced before. The few times when I was out in the CLK and the driving conditions were more severe than I liked, the winter tires were most impressive.
Had a fun day skiing today. Over 20 inches in 24 hours. On my way down I was keeping my distance with the car in front but I'd noticed a tailgater behind me. I have a land cruiser with Blizzaks.
Great Video! Having lived for years in Syracuse, NY, a place that often won the coveted (not) Golden Snowball award due to the amount of lake effect snow, with a Nissan Z370 and a good set of snow tires, I can confirm it was one of the best, most agile vehicles in the snow. (I only curbed it once because I span and there was so much snow on the curb, it didn't effect the car). It was better than my wife's Jeep Wrangler with all-seasons. The big problem, though, was snow banks. In such a low car and with snow banks that would reach sometimes a dozen feet into the air, it was difficult to see leaving parking lots that dumped all the snow near the curb.
Lived in Canada for a few years and I used winter tires once October hits. I’ve heard people say the have awd or 4wd so they don’t need winter tires, I tell them we all have all wheel brakes so it’s all equal when braking. The tires aren’t so much to get you going but to get you stopped.
There are good test videos that show that awd/4wd doesn't suddenly make your summer/all-season tyres more grippier: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-atayHQYqA3g.html
For a second I was like "are they not running their heaters?" And then I realized of course they aren't because that'd make the audio recording unusable
My NC2 Miata with winter tires was the best car I've ever had in the snow. Not even crazy tires either, lust like Pirelli Sottozero and some Michelin Alpins. Nothing crazy soft like Blizzaks since I live in the mid-Atlantic. Better than all my front wheel drive cars by a mile except maybe my old Subaru Loyale with Blizzaks when I was in MT.
ive been driving up here in the interior of alaska where there is often snow on the ground for most of the year , the right winter tires really makes huge difference for any vehicle. every new person who comes up here i tell them that stopping is more important then going i drove miatas in winter for over a decades and most of my winter cars have been rwd as the temps drop the type of winter tire you use does have an effect on them , my hakkapeliittas studs were far superior then my blizzaks at every temp and especially at -40 , after -20f you can feel the difference with the blizzaks while the Hakkas stay the same for the most part
I have Hakkapelittas on my 996. They are amazing in snow! But they completely suck on cold dry days, which is what most of our Utah winter has been like this season...
@@phattyhales roads are glare ice up here most of the winter , the Hakkas do amazing compared to blizzaks , im just glad it is warm enough to snow again :D
I appreciate you guys doing the hard work. I've been a snow tire fanatic since about 1996 when I slid off the road on low tread all seasons. I vowed never again. All of my cars have had snow tires and dedicated wheels since then and I live in southern Missouri. We get enough snow that I either end up being the only car moving well on the road, or the only car not sliding off the road for 2 to 10 days of the year down here. It's petty but I get much satisfaction passing AWD vehicles safely with my 2001 Corolla on major highways and OMG my wife's Forester XT is unstoppable/ uncatchable on Blizzaks.
Up in Alaska there is an old saying. 4 wheel drive doesn't mean 4 wheel stop lol . People using 4x4s for the most part have no idea what they're doing! May as well have rear wheel drive cars. Great video guys!
I live in ontario canada. I used to never put winters on when I was just a single guy. Never had any problems. Then I got married and started buying used winter tires. Those were defiantly better but were not so good once you were driving on packed snow or ice. Then we got a toyota sienna AWD and slapped new winters on that. They were crazy good. We went down to NC for a wedding in feb. and a huge store hit WV. There was around 5-6 inches of snow on the roads and the sienna just kept driving. They were only plowing one lane so I had the whole road to drive on. Passed everyone... snow plows, cops, didn't matter. Eventually they closed the roads though so we had to stop. New snow tires are pretty freaking awesome.
Anybody who lived in a snowy climate gets winters. There's 2 types of people in winter: 1. People with civics or whatever who put snow tires on their car & are fine. 2. People who leave 4 all-seasons on their SUV and end up in the ditch or stuck in their driveway. "All seasons" just means that they suck in all seasons.
We also notice that many AWD SUV drivers just assume AWD will save them. Can’t count the number of times we’ve passed struggling SUVs in something small and RWD. Tires are are everything. Thanks for watching!
Hey Todd and Paul you should have called it the squirrel maneuver quite frankly 😉🐿 In all seriousness it’s great to see you Utah guys in the snow in your “natural habitat.”🥶
I have a z4 e85 and I drive in Finland in the winter with studs, it's not the safest thing in the world but it's the most fun. The only real problem is the ride height, once ice starts to form some shapes on the road my front bumber is totally wrecked by just driving straight.
I got a Focus RS and needed the winter tires. The dealer did NOT want to sell them on those - they REALLY wanted me to get the fancy R-compound ones because "fast car". Yeah but I need a snow/gravel car, so they finally were persuaded. Michelin Alpin PA4 winter tires. Here's the thing - they're fantastic year-round. I have tried them in the snow - they work great. But I drive them year-round. I even took them to the track. They're not bad! The Focus RS has 350hp and they coped really nicely - good G-forces and got some lovely slides going. For about four laps, then they started to overheat and the shoulders started to evaporate. So OK, they're not track-day tires :-) But on the road they really are "all weather" tires - just use them year-round, no need to swap them out. They're so good, I put them on my Nissan GT-R. Now I can do more than 50mph when it rains without aquaplaning! And they last more than 6000 miles! And yes, they are absolutely fine in launch mode - the car is still bonkers-fast. Yes, if I were doing track-days I'd use different tires (but I have a racecar for that anyway), but for road use these things are so impressive. I get why they call these "winter tires" and not "all seasons" because truly the performance in the snow is fantastic. But the summer performance is great too.
The other aspect of driving a sports car (potentially with significant aluminum content in the chassis) in the winter is corrosion. Yes, many BMW and VAG products have galvanized bodies, but it's the suspension pieces that become a concern. Unless you maintain a decent coat of undercoating on everything, you'll start to run into galvanic corrosion in the suspension pieces. Chances are you won't see it, but it will occur in bolt-holes where the aluminum comes in contact with steel components. It will make taking things apart later a real bear. A common place where this is a problem on BMW and VAG products are the sway bar linkages, where they bolt through the bearing carriers. Undercoating is your friend!
ABS wasn't designed to get you stopped in the best way on all surfaces. In fact ABS wasn't designed for optimized stopping at all; it was designed to allow you to keep steering while threshhold braking. In snow, sand, gravel, it's better to fully lock to stop sooner (assuming you don't need to steer). When it comes to winter tires, accept no substitute: Nokian Hakkapeliitta.
In Quebec snow tires have been mandatory in the winter for a while now, people with anything less than a decent winter tires are dangerous on snowy and icy conditions. I have a C4 Corvette in the winter with Michelins studded tires. I out handle any suv or truck in the winter and have more than enough grip. In my opinion, having driven daily FWD, RWD ans AWD cars in the winter, RWD are actually the best, because you have much less understeer than either FWD or AWD.
The difference between winter tires and all seasons is akin to the difference between riding a bicycle and paddling a kayak. You can "steer" and "stop" and do everything with either tires, but the sense of control is altogether a different story.
I have been driving rear wheel only drive cars since 1975. Its no big deal. I take issue with the statement that your screwed without winter tires.. i live in wisconsin.. have only had 3 front wheel drive cars ever out of 25 cars and have never owned winter tires. So I can agree they are much better. But since 1975 I have driven all season tires on cars and sports cars .. with zero accidents. Zero getting stuck.. and never been late for work ever. My porsche 944 , 280 Z , olds 98 , jetta , audi 80 , F150 2 WHEEL DRIVE , F350 2 WHEEL DRIVE, toronado , 75 firebird , 67 gto , mercury grand marquis , ford E 150 van , 77 monte carlo , 81 jetta , etc have all been driven year round without a single snow tire / winter tire. I also survived no antilock brakes and no traction control and open diffs for decades. So it can and has been done . Our parents and grandparents have been driving around a hundred years and never had the technology your describing as being screwed without..
Tires make a huge difference, but type of car plays a role as well for overall winter stability. My first experience with snow tires was on an 06 Grand Prix and it transformed the car. It went through almost any snowy road, even through 13'' of unplowed snow. My current Ford Focus on the other hand, has snow tires and it helped dramatically - but you can tell due to less weight and being smaller the car wants to move around a lot more than the Grand Prix did. Honestly, my next car might be RWD just for the fun factor/overall predictable oversteer and control... But like others are saying, the biggest hinderance in winter is ground clearance.
WOW! That Suburban is HUGE next to those cars! Would have been interesting if you guys did the same tests with the all seasons with a bag of cement or something in the trunks of the car as many people do who don’t buy winter tires....You should have pulled the cars into the back of the Suburban to change tires!! Awesome vid. Very helpful. The last few minutes you guys were just completely childish....I’M JEALOUS!!!! Thanks to AutoTempest...but when are they going to release an app???
Cement in the back will help you gain traction for the driven wheels of a rwd car, but won't do much to help you stop. (More weight means more traction, but it's cancelled out by having more mass to slow down.) As for an app, we are planning to do one eventually, but so far we've wanted to keep focused on making the website as good as possible (for phones and PCs).
@@autotempest Thanks! That’s why I wanted to see the comparo with the sand/cement bags. Many people use them to increase traction, but was curios how much it would degrade the stopping process with the extra weight and not extra treads on the tires....good stuff!
Even among winter tires there are differences. I guess the spectrum runs from the snowflake label on some new all seasons all the way to low speed rated (or no speed rated) winters with super squirmy tread that will wear off the first time you drive them at 50F. There are a lot of options. I always assumed that choosing a speed rated winter tire for a performance vehicle did a good job adding winter grip while not totally destroying the car's handling when it's not snowing, and preventing the tire from smearing itself into nothing on non-snowy days. From what I remember, speed rated winter tires have been around for a solid 20 years now. I'm talking like H or V rated. For those who don't understand, the speed rating tells you something about the tire and tread. It's not that you need to drive at sustained 130 or 149 mph but higher speed rated is very correlative to overall handling and the softness of the tread, so as a single indicator it's pretty good. For example I ran some Dunlop snow tires on an old 95 Camaro and they were Q rated (99 I think). The snow grip was incredible but the handling when it wasn't snowing was awful. Like sketchy on the highway when you change lanes. You need to match the tire to the car, even among winter tires.
