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SurvivingAntidepressants.org Community Discussion 

Medicating Normal
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To donate to Medicating Normal, so we may bring you more conversations like this one, please visit: medicatingnormal.com/donate/
To donate to Mark Horowitz's ongoing research about psychiatric drug withdrawal: uk.virginmoneygiving.com/char...
Community Discussion Panelists:
Altostrata: Survivor of prolonged paroxetine withdrawal syndrome, founder of SurvivingAntidepressants.org in 2011, for peer support in going off all psychiatric drugs, currently more than 15,000 registered members. www.survivingantidepressants.org
Ed White: Survivor of severe venlafaxine withdrawal, co-administrator of the Facebook group Effexor (Venlafaxine) Tapering, Discontinuation Syndrome and Protracted W/D, founded 7 years ago by Sherry Julo, with 6277 members at present. / effexorsupportgroup
Ashli Hein: Co-administrator of the Facebook group Cymbalta Hurts Worse, founded in 2013 by Toni Samanie, which has just passed 25,000 members. / cymbaltahurtsworse
Christy Huff, MD: benzo survivor, and Director of Benzodiazepine Information Coalition. www.benzoinfo.com
Angela Peacock, MSW: former Army Sergeant, subject of the film. www.downonmeds.com
*****
0:11 Disclaimer: This is not medical advice.
1:14 Altostrata of SurvivingAntidepressants.org gives introduction, physiological dependence, shares her story of Paxil withdrawal, discusses the history of online forums for psychiatric drug withdrawal.
4:23 Introduces co-panelists of other peer support groups for psychiatric drug withdrawal
5:03 Introduction of Ed White, co-admin of Effexor Facebook support group that has over 6,300 members.
5:44 Introduction of Ashli Hein of Cymbalta Hurts worse Facebook support group that has over 25,000 members.
6:30 Extent of more Facebook groups that support psychiatric drug withdrawal “subculture”
7:15 Important implications for doctors and patients about prescribing, deprescribing and the place of peer support. What is the way forward?
7:52 Introduction of Christy Huff, MD, director of Benzodiazepine Information Coalition
8:35 Introduction of Angela Peacock, MSW subject of the film and Nicole Lamberson, PA as moderator.
9:04 Nicole asks each panelist to discuss their group and describe how their group supports members.
9:30 Ed White speaks about the “Effexor (venlafaxine) tapering, discontinuation syndrome and protracted w/d” support group on Facebook.
11:30 Ed White describes his own journey off Effexor.
12:11 Ashli Hein discusses the “Cymbalta Hurts Worse” Facebook support group, its origins, and how they support members.
13:03 Tapering support in “Cymbalta Hurts Worse.” (methods of tapering, getting to root causes, etc)
16:19 Christy Huff, MD speaks about Benzodiazepine Information Coalition
17:30 Angela Peacock, MSW speaks about this being one of our more important screenings.
18:48 Ed White, discusses his forthcoming paper with Professor John Read about the growth of online support forums.
20:14 Why are people turning to this “quasi-medical underground?”
21:20 A doctor in the audience asks “How do I learn about tapering?”
21:30 Mark Horowitz’s research about hyperbolic tapers.
21:50 Being concerned with psychiatric drug withdrawal is not “anti-psychiatry.”
22:26 What doctors need to know to help patients.
23:22 Tapering methods
24:05 Surviving Antidepressants: Exponential tapering: 10% per month
25:50 Cymbalta Hurts Worse: Tapering may be even slower 5% every 3-4 weeks.
27:50 Patient-led tapers increase quality of life
28:31 Effexor Tapering Group: 10% method but some can go faster, some slower.
29:18 Cymbalta and Effexor seem to be hardest to withdraw from. Paxil is also difficult.
30:52 Bridging with Prozac does not seem to help most patients
31:28 The Ashton Manual: tapering benzodiazepines
31:55 Tapering is an individual process
32:37 Patient experience with tapering and finding support groups
33:48 Which drug do you taper first if you are on multiple?
35:08 Some patients are forced into fast tapers or cut off their prescriptions abruptly
36:20 Why don’t doctors allow for slow tapers? What do doctors know?
37:28 Skipping doses
39:18 Polypharmacy: drug order when tapering
41:35 Where do physicians go to get educated about safe, patient-led tapers?
43:27 Research about tapering (see pinned comment for journal articles)
44:42 Benzodiazepine Tapering & The Ashton Manual

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27 авг 2020

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Комментарии : 119   
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Research and further reading: Horowitz, Mark Abie, and David Taylor. “Tapering of SSRI Treatment to Mitigate Withdrawal Symptoms.” The Lancet Psychiatry 6, no. 6 (June 2019): 538-46. doi.org/10.1016/S2215-0366(19)30032-X. Horowitz, Mark Abie, Robin M. Murray, and David Taylor. “Tapering Antipsychotic Treatment.” JAMA Psychiatry, August 5, 2020. doi.org/10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2020.2166. Kotzalidis, Giorgio D., Barbara Patrizi, Saverio Simone Caltagirone, Alexia Koukopoulos, Valeria Savoja, Gaia Ruberto, Caterina Tatarelli, et al. “The Adult SSRI/SNRI Withdrawal Syndrome: A Clinically Heterogeneous Entity.” Clinical Neuropsychiatry 4, no. 2 (April 2007): 61-75. moh-it.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/the-adult-ssrisnri-withdrawal-syndrome-a-clinically-heterogeneous Scott, Ian A., Sarah N. Hilmer, Emily Reeve, Kathleen Potter, David Le Couteur, Deborah Rigby, Danijela Gnjidic, et al. “Reducing Inappropriate Polypharmacy: The Process of Deprescribing.” JAMA Internal Medicine 175, no. 5 (May 2015): 827-34. doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2015.0324. Benzodiazepine Information Coalition. “Benzodiazepine Tapering Strategies and Solutions.” Benzodiazepine Information Coalition (blog), October 9, 2017. www.benzoinfo.com/2017/10/09/benzodiazepine-tapering-strategies-and-solutions/. Groot, Peter C., and Jim van Os. “Antidepressant Tapering Strips to Help People Come off Medication More Safely.” Psychosis 10, no. 2 (April 3, 2018): 142-45. doi.org/10.1080/17522439.2018.1469163. Lerner, Alicja, and Michael Klein. “Dependence, Withdrawal and Rebound of CNS Drugs: An Update and Regulatory Considerations for New Drugs Development.” Brain Communications 1, no. 1 (January 1, 2019). doi.org/10.1093/braincomms/fcz025.
@wwxra
@wwxra 2 года назад
After I got hurt by antidepressants, I've been much more aware of the food I'm eating. Food is the real medicine!
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Food, aesthetic Talent Training and becoming Imago Viva Dei!
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
Watched you guys telling it how it is in the early hours of the morning, so glad to be able to watch it again. I hope many outside the circle will also watch this. They need to. Thank you for putting it up here. You lived up to your word.
@nigelbrown5647
@nigelbrown5647 3 года назад
After struggling with side affects ofParoxetine (Paxil, Seroxat, Aropax) and now the shocking withdrawal, thank you so much for involving me in this event. I feel so much more hopeful. I will always be indebted to you. Especially Alto Strata, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize!
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Peter Breggin has a program for withdrawing from neurotoxic drugs!
@dianemcmahan5159
@dianemcmahan5159 2 года назад
Ignorance is not bliss! Thank you for how you are helping normal become normal once again👍🏼👍🏼
@darkprinceofdorne
@darkprinceofdorne Год назад
Beautifully written
@alyssamiller9329
@alyssamiller9329 Год назад
Just watching this video makes me cry!!! I am currently almost 4 months off effexor. It's been pure hell. Even with taking other antidepressants. Nothing is touching the HORRIBLE withdrawals.
@nicoleoleksuk8799
@nicoleoleksuk8799 3 года назад
so glad i found this group
@katrinapeacock8317
@katrinapeacock8317 3 года назад
Grateful to be able to learn from you all before I begin my taper. Thank you for sharing.
@joannascott5631
@joannascott5631 3 года назад
Im a member of Cymbalta Hurts Worse and found this wonderful video via the forum. Thank you all for this.. look forward to watching the film
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Ways to watch here: medicatingnormal.com/watch/
@brendansmyth5053
@brendansmyth5053 Год назад
I’m a member of CHW too. Hi from Australia 🇦🇺👍🏻. I’m celebrating 4 years PAWS after my Doc tapered me off too fast. Life does get better however Cymbalta is a hell of a drug. My journey has been a long one. Good luck to you and your family 🙏🏻
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
When it was live i was so interested in hearing everything that the emotions didn.t come. I thought wow i didn.t react as i thought i would. Watching it again on a bit of an off day i feel them coming now and just want to thank all you guys from the bottom for backing yourselves(you all know it.s real)and giving your time to get it out there.
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Emotions are good! Don't push them away.
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
@@MedicatingNormal i don.t fight them. Being a bit sensitive still from my "taper" to music and even things that are real nice or meaningful, amongst a few other things, still brings out tears. I found it very meaningful, you guys speaking on the panel that is. Letting the tears come out is more helpful in this than trying to stop them.
@rosebud9594
@rosebud9594 3 года назад
I was on psychiatric drugs for many years. I never felt so miserable, more than any "brain problem". Those nuts (psychiatrists) need to be prosecuted. I took 6 months (with a psychiatrist's knowledge) to go off of them. It was hell. It's still hell trying to function, to keep going. I feel much worse than I ever did before the drugs!! I suffer from deep depression now, terrible insomnia and suicidal ideation. I know what really caused this mess and it's not my brain or the way "I reacted" to any situation. I KNOW the real reason my situation happened. I'm ticked and cry all the time at being used at a guinea 🐖. I will NEVER take these damn drugs again. THEY LEAD TO ADDICTION to other drugs (legal) too. Big Pharma and psychiatry have used us as GUINEA PIGS. 😡 😢 💔 😢 😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠😠
@user-vf8ti4dq3d
@user-vf8ti4dq3d 3 года назад
im 10 years in, I've had severe skin problems and now scarring from this, so long term damage is also a possibility of this, still not better but fighting still and when the physical symptoms are over i have to deal with skin repair if even possible....unbelievable ......what in Gods name has happened to this world?
@archiesimpson5172
@archiesimpson5172 3 года назад
I have constant itching.
@grv91vr23
@grv91vr23 Год назад
How are you now
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Big money has Standard of Care psychiatry in its maw!
@carolinecroft7029
@carolinecroft7029 10 месяцев назад
Excellent video, very helpful.
@privateperson5769
@privateperson5769 Год назад
I would describe tapering as finding a dose reduction amount that is bearable, but in no way will it be comfortable or symptomless. I cannot taper 10 % of my Benzo - 5 % is my absolute limit. I have unbearable symptoms when I try and cut by 1 mg of my long acting Benzo. I can only cut 0.5mg. I cannot go any faster even tho I want off NOW. Angela u r right. I don't tell my Dr sh*t . I do all of it myself. I will never go back to my Psychiatrist - she will want me off quick, and will not take my side effects seriously.The next Dr I go to, I am asking them what they know abt Benzo wdl, and what experience they have had with patients getting off after many years on them. I think my Dr is like scratching his head when I talk abt having AWFUL, HORRENDOUS wdl symptoms - I don't think he expected me to have any side effects getting off Benzo's even tho I have been on them over 10 years. . Lack of knowledge abt all drugs in general not just Psych meds. Would be nice to be able to trust Dr's but I just don't anymore. Have been told too many wrong things by them.
@pm7225
@pm7225 2 года назад
Why are doctor so stupid about antidepressants withdrawal
@vedatzorro
@vedatzorro Год назад
I am from Turkey 99 percent of doctors they don't accept protracted withdrawal. Aslo my doctor. They say maximum a few months this could be continue. After all it's just "relapse" and you must take again your drug
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Down with neurotoxic drugs!
@mellopez1859
@mellopez1859 2 года назад
I had a Phychiatrist who gave me Xanax for extreme anxiety , for over 4 years then he stopped , so I went to a program that gave me .5 clonopins /3 times a day then also stopped , abruptly , so I've been having to buy this drug from a person who I cannot mention , I've been to so many Phychiatrist now that won't help me because I did buy them from a person , they seem to not want to help now finally I had to go to a clinic / Samaritan village to finally help me get off this demon drug , but I wondered why I was abruptly stopped years ago without proper tapering ?? Before COVID
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Howard Glasser would not allow you to get into these drugs. I read his 1st book - Igniting Greatness!
@stevekaylor5606
@stevekaylor5606 5 месяцев назад
Mental health is the development of a mental + emotional dedication, a cathexis!
@rheannak3934
@rheannak3934 2 года назад
29:45 same with Luvox :( and for those of us stuck on it after tapering so low, it’s one of the ones rarely discussed and we are isolated even further.
@michael_stanley
@michael_stanley 3 года назад
good work guys n gals - paxil and trintellix ruined my life made me disabled but getting better - also xanax and klonapin
@reginastone7223
@reginastone7223 Год назад
God work 🙏🏽
@mickbowe4252
@mickbowe4252 3 года назад
I hope Prozac isn't as nasty as paxil . I got from 240mg/week to 120mg/week in 6 months. It's getting harder now though. Thank you medicating normal for being real.
@Sears111
@Sears111 3 года назад
Mick Bowe. Paxil and Effexor are the worst. Prozac will be easier.
@danielstevenjanerico7461
@danielstevenjanerico7461 3 года назад
~ Associated Peer To Peer Support And Affiliates ~ I Approve This Documentry As A " Peer Advocate , Ambassadour , Consultant " DJ Of Greater Boston ...
@amycuaresma
@amycuaresma 3 года назад
We are the most over medicated nation know the world, yet we can not even get allergies under control.
@cassies123
@cassies123 3 года назад
Great panel discussion but just a bit concerned about advice to leave sleep drug/benzo for last. This could create further tolerance to the benzo for some folks. I think it's a bad idea, especially for those that have not been on a combination of these meds for long. Otherwise, really great!
@kuldeepak2997
@kuldeepak2997 Год назад
I am suffering from antidepressant discontinuation syndrome. How can I get any help from you
@montesa9136
@montesa9136 3 года назад
How do you know what's withdrawal verses a relapse? I was on Cipralex for 8 years and tapered off over four months. I was fine for another four months then crashed HORRIBLY! I'm still Heavily Depressed, but don't know if what I'm experiencing is a relapse or withdrawal? How can you know?
@martinez4560
@martinez4560 11 месяцев назад
How are you doing now?
@rodneyschafer7869
@rodneyschafer7869 Год назад
Hi,really like this channal,if u read the product information leave that comes with the medication, invega it say full benefit is in 6months time from 1 injection, when u try and get of it akathisia comes back once off stopping the injection, it puts me in hospital every time,they call it a rebound medication
@montesa9136
@montesa9136 3 года назад
I think I tapered of Cipralex too fast. It's been 9 months now & I'm Seriously Suffering. Is it best to go back on a low dose of the med & try a slower taper?
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
9 months is a little far out to be reinstating. I would be really careful with that. Of course, I cannot possibly give you individual medical advice on YT but I would strongly suggest you research that question on this website but start by reading this post first: www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6175-limbic-kindling-hardwiring-the-brain-for-hypersensitivity/
@Phin13760
@Phin13760 Год назад
20 years on antidepressants. I stopped them in 5 days. I still struggle. How long is this withdrawl going to last. It got a lil better but I still get anxiety, insomnia, and stomach problems. I've been off them 2.7 years.
@alyssamiller9329
@alyssamiller9329 Год назад
5 days is very fast after being on 20 years 😮. Best of luck
@r.chavez5513
@r.chavez5513 3 года назад
Hi im diabled by the drug injury now 3 years off does the cns heal slowly trew out years?
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Yes, please visit the support groups and read the success stories! Healing is inevitable but can take a really long time for a lot of people.
@juliannewman8720
@juliannewman8720 2 года назад
Man. I appreciate some of what alto astra does but she comes off super authoritative and “know it all”. After watching this interview, it confirms everything I thought about her. Not a big fan. I understand tapering is a harm reduction method but not everyone benefits from it and the advice she gives isn’t always helpful as I’ve seen people harmed from her as well. Listen to your body while you’re tapering. No one can know your body better than you. That includes people like alto who try to dictate peoples tapering. Dangerous territory.
@jacqueline1752
@jacqueline1752 2 года назад
Alto is a narcissist. Many people on that forum have committed suicide after she turned nasty on them. One young woman was labelled ‘needy’ by her and banned from the forum. She took her life that night. That forum is dangerous.
@verabaker4627
@verabaker4627 Год назад
She needs to drop the word uh!
@janelbucsko7919
@janelbucsko7919 3 года назад
Off trazadone and suffering terribly. Pain insomnia. Jumped off 21.5 mg
@janelbucsko7919
@janelbucsko7919 3 года назад
Titrated off 450mg starting last oct titrated down to 12.5 2 months ago. Terrible anxiety and insomnia.
@janelbucsko7919
@janelbucsko7919 3 года назад
I was on the trazadone for 8 yrs
@glockymenor6760
@glockymenor6760 Год назад
How are you now?
@ellekatrina1900
@ellekatrina1900 3 года назад
Where is the film/documentary available to view?
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
medicatingnormal.com/watch/
@ellekatrina1900
@ellekatrina1900 3 года назад
@@MedicatingNormal Is it not available in the UK?
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
@@ellekatrina1900 You can sign on to any of the screenings offered there. There's a UK screening listed for the University of Roehampton next month!
@ellekatrina1900
@ellekatrina1900 3 года назад
@@MedicatingNormal Thank you
@ivo2027
@ivo2027 3 года назад
AQUI no Brasil ninguém sabe como sair dos antidepressivos, os psiquiatras no Brasil estão perdidos não sabem como fazer uma abordagem correta de como retirar essas drogas.
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Eu sinto muito! Você viu que estamos fazendo uma exibição com a Fiocruz? us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_6ZmYDSxiR5CsDcCd6Dbhuw
@matheusdeoliveira495
@matheusdeoliveira495 3 года назад
Muito verdade!
@montesa9136
@montesa9136 3 года назад
Can withdrawal symptoms start four months after coming off a taper?
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
yes- delayed withdrawal has been seen in the lay withdrawal community.
@Sears111
@Sears111 3 года назад
Unfortunately. Yes.
@debbietaylor20
@debbietaylor20 3 года назад
I tapered off of zoloft 4 months ago and still get sweats, chills . It gets me.down as I'm 58 and on hrt patches for hot flashes but still get them because of this. Started getting tingling on one side of my head too. I tapered over 5 months and only on it 9 months. Went through horrendous withdrawal. My gp didn't believe me which makes me so angry, they need re educating on these drugs . I'm in the UK and they hand them out like candy. They make out they don't see people with withdrawal. They think once its out of your system that's it but we know these drugs effect the brain and hypathalumus which controls body heat and can take months to heal.
@dmaster6088
@dmaster6088 3 года назад
I need to get off and I don't know what to do
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
Here is a resource you might find helpful. There are also resources on our website. withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/learn/psychiatric-drug-taper-rates-review-and-discussion
@shahnazali4000
@shahnazali4000 2 года назад
How do you taper off Clozopine? Please help I hsve a son aged 29 . He's been on twice a day 40mg day time , 75mg night
@justbreathe6826
@justbreathe6826 2 года назад
Has anyone explored the idea of Ketamine to help speed up the taper ?
@snafu22
@snafu22 3 года назад
Alto strata.....11 yrs to get better. I can’t do this for 11 yrs. no way. Better to end it now.
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
People do not stay severe the entire time. Remember that she formed a forum for survivors and helped hundreds of thousands of people during that time.
@snafu22
@snafu22 3 года назад
Medicating Normal 35 mths of non stop akathisia and all the internal and mental terror that akathisia brings .......I'm tiring out......
@r.chavez5513
@r.chavez5513 3 года назад
@@MedicatingNormal im 3 years off never fully recovered from the injury
@r.chavez5513
@r.chavez5513 3 года назад
@@snafu22 but i slowly have gotten a better
@altostrata7018
@altostrata7018 3 года назад
Sadly, recovery is very slow and frustrating. Hang in there, please.
@rebelandseektoprosper8268
@rebelandseektoprosper8268 3 года назад
I'm trying to come off effexor ATM, my stomach ahhhh 😣
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
Are you in any groups. Effexor needs to be respected when trying to come off, like the rest of them.
@rebelandseektoprosper8268
@rebelandseektoprosper8268 3 года назад
@@suckermofo1 I'm a member of the effexor discontinuation syndrome and protracted withdrawals group mentioned here. They have helped immensely with support and knowledge, Sherry is really nice along with the other amazing Admins and all the work they put into helping others. How about you? Has it affected you as well?
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
@@rebelandseektoprosper8268 yeah it has. Sherry's a warrior, big time. If I had to go through that I wouldn.t be here.
@rebelandseektoprosper8268
@rebelandseektoprosper8268 3 года назад
@@suckermofo1 are you still trying to come off or did you make it? I'm glad you're still here and managed to stumble across the truth and support. Insane drug, so toxic...
@suckermofo1
@suckermofo1 3 года назад
@@rebelandseektoprosper8268 yeah I made it to a pretty good place when compared to the worst. Some lingering effects at 40 months at 0 but compared to the worst i wont complain. I had to do it too fast, just do it slowly and listen to your body and mind.
@thomasrehder3422
@thomasrehder3422 3 года назад
Im going to start smoking weed what else can you do to get off benzos
@MedicatingNormal
@MedicatingNormal 3 года назад
www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php
@thomasglover7937
@thomasglover7937 3 года назад
Research the Ashton Manual & find a Dr willing to support you on it 👍 Good luck
@thomasrehder3422
@thomasrehder3422 3 года назад
@@thomasglover7937 ive been kindled bad cause these stupid docters dont no what the hell is going on
@r.chavez5513
@r.chavez5513 3 года назад
@@MedicatingNormal have you seen people injured mentally and phsically take years to heal?
@thomasrehder3422
@thomasrehder3422 3 года назад
@@r.chavez5513 yes i have its horrible and they dont care
@dmaster6088
@dmaster6088 3 года назад
😭
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