Sword logic and The Final Shape casually explained | Myelin Games 

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As perfect as Vow of the Disciple was, I feel like Rhulk could have unintentionally become a huge story character who could have filled the role of Xivu a little better. Xivu just feels like a pouty child we never meet compared to a feared war general. Zavala in a bad mood is scarier than Xivu.

Its always cool to rewatch The Witness cutscenes and now remember that its voice is the voice of an entire civilization

Rhulk mentions how the hive... disappointed him and the witness in Vow of the Disciple. This helps explain why the hive and witness have different versions of the final shape. My take is that the hive made their own version up from their own misconceptions, their own beliefs. Here are the voicelines from Rhulk: "Puppets, all of them. Every last krill. Every last Hive. I once believed in a higher calling as they do. But you know that. You rescued me from that that. Eternal appreciation doesn't even scratch the surface of what I owe you for the gifts you gave me. I know you hoped the Krill would see it too. We tried. We really did. But we had to let them struggle. All because of a belief that purpose had finally found them. Given them strenght to conquer an oppressive homeworld. How else were they to grow? Their loss, however, is for them to grieve, not us. We will continue forward. Greater purpose awaits, my witness."

I always thought that the Final Shape, through the lens of Sword Logic at least, was ironically short-sighted. The Hive have to test themselves and consume other life in order to survive until there's nothing left but them. My question was always; then what? Fail to continue feeding their Worms ever increasing hunger or testing themselves against, which would apparently be nothing anymore, and they get eaten alive. It's not sustainable, and it really feels like it'll all collapse as soon as they "win". Incredibly powerful philosophy, but with a built-in kill switch.

For those who don't know or didn't notice, there's a secret voice line in the Imbaru engine where Savathûn says "The Sword logic is different for everyone. For me, it's about doing minuscule amounts of tomfoolery, until the whole universe has been trolled. Interesting, is it not?". Hope this helps better understand what the sword logic is Myelin! 🥰🥰🥰🥰

7 pages!! That's a lot of words Myelin!!

I think watching someone track through all of what Bungie presented over the last decade in a format like this is extremely helpful! Thanks Myelin!

The Witness out here trying to start NG+.

No more MS Paint? Truly the end of an era...😮‍💨

Myelin this video is incredible!! I know you said RU-vid doesn’t incentivize content like this but I just wanted to say I loved it and it’s exactly the type of videos that got me into Destiny lore in the first place (and kept me playing - looking at you bungie, support your creators!!)

I love Destiny's lore because, even though the game is entirely presented as a wild epic of fiction, it's lore is thorough and nearly unfiction. It somehow makes everything (mostly) work in standard logic of reality. Normally fictional universes don't fill the gaps as much as Bungie does.

There was a Lore tab where a Disciple asks why there are different interpretations, and why the Witness allows for the different versions to exist without clarification.

I wanted it competitively explained dr strimmer

Sword logic and Tithes are the perfect Pyramid Scheme.

Love your stuff man. The sword logic … what a concept. It’s hard to keep the picture clear.

great video love the new way u did this one the visual pics helps me out to learn better ty

The Witness’ speech will never cease to creep me out.

They explained what the Final Shapw is in the reveal livestream. It’s basically the Witness turning the Universe into the ultimate Lego set. Everything has a perfect purpose and meaning, no chaos or chaos. Frozen, eternal, and perfected.

Very cool. Nice conspiracy board. I remember those heady days of ‘what disease with my children bring home today’. Enjoy these days they go by so fast.

My theory has been that The Deep is where the powerful ascendant beings that once lived in the ascendant plain were trapped when the Traveler and Veil separated. The heirloom could be the piece of the Traveler/Veil that broke away holding both Traveler and Veil parts. The piece went about the universe and came close to the Psion homeworld during their evolution and affect them, made them more cognitively aware, psychic, attuned to the universe memory, which inspired OXA. The Witness is being used by the beings in the Deep. The Final Shape will be the "key', the shape needed to open the The Deep and allow ascendant beings to enter our universe. The next big baddies will be Ascendants.

Basically the Witness’ idea of the Final Shape is flipping the table during a game of monopoly lol

Good video! I like the visual style, your videos with paint or other tools where you are explaining sequences with a visual aid are excellent, thank you.

The final shape is just the witness trying to turn off the simulation

Love the picture timeline! Great work Myelin keep it up!

I don't know but everytime i see videos on the final shape and sword logic I keep imagining The Nine treating the world like a sandbox and seeing what shapes they can make.

Great video, Myelin. Loved the visual format.

One thing I cant figure out- If the witness is the entirety of the race- the hell is on all the ships of the fleet?

Wow this has been my exact theory ever since we got the first cutscene of the witness

Loved the new style. Maybe you have already mentioned but I might have missed it. Have you checked Whisper of the Worm lore book? There are plenty of mentions to this season’s story imo. “Anthem, Anatheme” isn’t that Anthenaeum? There seems to be a link to Whisper of the Worm in current season. Aiat!

Just put our 3yo in daycare for the first time, it feels like she’s been sick at least once a week since starting. It’s the worst. I feel you brother

Absolutely loved this format

I just love that Oryx basically used sword logic as an MLM scheme. “Thrall, Acololytes, Wizards, ALL of you! Go sell my essential oils! We’ll all become rich!”

Such a fantastic review on Sword Logic!! Keep it going!!!

The hive reminds me of the first scene of the dark knight; it’s henchmen killing each other, clearing out the path for the true plan.

No enemy in destiny feels like a threat anymore, even the witness simply due to bungie letting us know there is more after the final shape and this season saying that the witness is our focus rather than xivu 😂. It's boring winning ALL the time...we need a big loss as the guardian to make any of this feel worth it, as of right now there is no question that we will come out on top of every single battle with ease...

Great work with the change of the format! Felt a bit more engaging.

"Winning the game by turning it off." So Bungie made a game setting in which the core idea is that the arch-enemy wins when _you_ quit playing.

Definitely like the format. Great video! AIAT!

The way I see the Witness' final shape up to this point is he wants all the memories of the universe frozen in place and for this to be the new universe itself, its new Final Shape. Memories here include things, events and people living or dead and their "souls". For all of this to live on forever in the Final Shape to never die. I see this corroborated in the final shape trailer with Cayde coming back into Destiny inside the Traveler. Cayde's memory, or soul, has been recorded within the Traveler and him, along with everyone else, has been in there in some form (guessing other people in there too). In the Final Shape vidoc the devs mentioned we'll be seeing our journey since Destiny 1 inside the Traveler. Also Stasis is a form of the Darkness that's heavily related to the Witness himself, with the Witness gifting us Stasis. And we see similar themes in pyramid architecture, living people and creatures frozen in place. We also know darkness is the framework of consciousness, or heavily tied to consciousness. The Witness also said he wants no more life, and no more death. It's also been shown that he wants to cut away the chaos of the universe, cut away the chaos of the Light and the Light represents the physical universe. The Light representing the physical universe is mentioned in a cutscene during the Lightfall campaign. Keeping everything frozen in place would stop life, death and chaos. So in trying to thread all these needles the Witness wants to freeze the universe in an everlasting Stasis crystal.

When Eris tricks us into joining her MLM pyramid scheme

The Witness doesn't mind The Hive having their own idea of The Final Shape because it doesn't really interfere with the plan and at the end they're still loyal and useful to them. In one of Rhulk's recordings inside his pyramid he talks about how he and The Witness "really tried" to teach The Hive the real Final Shape, but eventually gave up and just "had to let them struggle". As for The Witness' Final Shape I think their plan is to reboot the universe rather than outright end it. Start a new iteration with their own set of hard rules and no RNG whatsoever. The result would be a forced utopia where every action and every outcome is set in stone from the very beginning, a staged reality where nobody has free will and nothing can ever change or evolve. This in turn ties perfectly with the ideals of The Winnower, which hates change, diversity and randomness; preferring instead the stability, predictability and familiarity of watching the exact same flowers sprout over and over again, forever and ever.

Oh this flowchart setup is excellent

No paint? No flashbang? Where'd my Myelin go sadge

I really love that thumbnail

The Hive's final shape is the one left behind at the apex of life. The last one standing. But if you are the last one standing, where would you (a Hive) get tribute? Without tribute you will just die. And in doing so there is nothing left, just like how the Witness dictates their final shape. Nothing left, static, game over. In that way they are similar. But in the end the Hive are/were nothing but a pawn in the Witness' final shape.

I adored your multi-hour reads of Hive origins.

Wow, the upgrade from Paint is actually really helpful! (But I loved the Paint drawings)

Videos like this need to be called Lore School.

More Pictionary lore like this plz

I get so happy when you upload

Here's a really wacky, out there idea as a thought experiment... but what if the Witness' final shape is actually the direct opposite that of the Hive's. We presume that when it says "no more life, no more death" it's talking about the entirety of existence, right? Alternatively what if it just means for itself instead as if it dies then it doesn't have to witness the continual cycles of life and death any longer. I don't know if there's any lore around this, but the Witness looks pretty much immortal to me, more so than even the Hive gods. Also since the Traveler is all about life this odd notion then paints it that the Traveler wasn't trying to flee the Witness as much as it wasn't wanting to be the catalyst for it's death. This would need us to understand what's inside the Traveler, but maybe in this universe it's like the book of life where no thing can ever truly die including the Witness unless the Witness goes in and erases itself from it. Admittedly this all is too much of a stretch, but hopefully an interesting thought to ponder. To me the biggest flaw here is that the Witness would already likely be dead when we follow in after it which would be highly anti-climatic and hated by many of the community looking forward to fighting it in the raid.

The weakness of the "survival of the fittest" is that it predicates on the most powerful violence in the Universe. The lore leans into the witness's version is of absolute control. It uses hive and other species to achieve that end. The combining of the veil and traveller is the specific mechanism. The light and dark Saga is the chess game between the two controllers of the game. The hive are just part of the pyramid scheme as done by the witness 😅😂

I came for the lore and the epic beard. Peace.

Great video. I think the Hive created their own "end game" (final shape) because they had to. They became aware of "the game" and if they wanted to be a contender for the winner then they had to have their own plan. They knew they weren't the strongest, because they were forever feeding their worm so, how could they be the strongest? They became aware, Oryx killed Akha, Savathun went to put her own plan into action. Brilliant move by Savathun to get out of the cycle through her death, but stay true to her logic/plan. The Gaurdians don't have a final shape. They don't want to play the game, they just want to exist. Of course, we have to play the game there is no other choice. Perhaps we win by killing all the other participants.

Great method, know this, some of us Just want to hear you preach the lore.

So the explanation in this made me realize the Hive is just one massive pyramid scheme...

Parenthood is hard. My son was in the hospital on a weekly basis his first year in daycare

Well done Sir, well done.

Lot of lore guys out there you are my preference "MYELINDOFF" AIAT

the final shape. pe-e-eace.

unrelated thought: but if the darkness is consciousness and all of humanity are conscious creatures, does that mean everyone in destiny is technically paracausal? Even if it's on such a small scale of what goes on inside our own heads. Doesn't this mean that the Vex technically can't perfectly predict an ordinary human? - and by human, I mean every creature of human like consciousness

Sorry about your kiddo, going through the same thing here with our twins. Do we think it’s possible that Savathun knew of the Witness’ deception from the beginning. The WQ campaign doesn’t indicate that, but she is the god of cunning. Is it possible Savvy has been playing the ultimate long game against the Witness waiting to find someone strong enough to beat the Witness ?

Thanks Matt!!

I have a better explanation why the final shape for the hive is not the same for the witness. The witness promised them what they wanted and lacked, the witness suffered pain(Existence) but the hive/krill's main suffering was weakness, they were at the bottom of the food chain, so the witness promised them the top of the pyramid. Nezarec's goal was suffering itself, literally the opposite of the witness, he wanted everything to suffer under him, so most likely his image of the final shape was different. Different endings to unit multiple races under one flag, and in the end, it doesn't even matter... only the witness's version will happen.

Great video as always.

This may sound odd, but the Witness's version of the final shape as described at 19:26 is something that I can agree with. Logically, if there is no life, there is no suffering. No happiness or thriving, but also not the ability or need for such things in the first place.

"Dodgy salesman telling you whatnthe problem is, then selling you the solution." Is there any other way to start a religion?

We don't know exactly what the Witness's Final Shape is. But I'd have to agree with Immaru, I'd rather deal with the Hive's version, at least in their case life fights to survive. Int he case of the Witness it's now clear there was no great philosophy behind the Witness, it just wanted to form a link with the Traveler to enter the Pale Heart and I assume with both the power of Light and Darkness, it would then be able to shape to shape the universe to whatever it's end goal is, we know whatever that would be it would unfairly result in the loss of so much life, I assume no one would get much of a chance to fight back. At least wth the HIve you have a chance to survive if you're strong enough. It's now clear that the Disciples and the Hive were all just lied to by the Witness, mere expendable pawns to help it achieve the Final Shape. At least with the Sword Logic and what we originally thought of for the Darkness, it felt more natural, like just speeding up inevitable entropy of the universe.

It was great way to explain everything 👌🏻🔥

The final shape

Like the format

I understood all of this.

You're so funny. Love your vids dude

The Final Shape

The final shape of the Witness is just him being on top of it all and also being able to shape into his reality everything back together taking pieces of puzzle and shutting them down like the vault. A bit of fourth wall break there if you all have followed along Bungie’s vidoc vid or the showcase as they called it put all of it into perspective. Also saying we back to feeling small in the universe something funny could be up. If my speculation is correct once we defeat the Witness and the something funny Bungie will probably pull out of left field is delete certain things from the Destiny universe in order for it to go back to being our final shape, because we are Destiny.

t h e f i n a l s h a p e

Wasn’t it explained in Witch Queen that the Witness tempted the Krill (Proto-Hive) to the Deep because the Witness assumed Traveler wanted to give them the Light.

final strand

Sword Logic

I LIKE THIS FORMAT! TFS...✌

But that 7 page draft you dismissed, could we get a copy?

That's why Bungie has been getting DDOSed, it's the Witness.

I kinda wonder with all the immense power the witness has, why even go through the trouble of the bargain with the worms and the Creation of the hive?

If anyone who has every read the Gamer webtoon sword logic is the gamer power but evil.

I need a power chart. How powerful was Eris the Hive vs Rhulk/Nezerec/Witness/Sukuna lol just playing about the last one. Also does imbaru engine juice go straight to Savathun?

I hate the proto worm stuff so much. So the proto worms were created by the Witness, but also Subjugated by Rhulk? Where does Xita fit into the mix, was she a proto worm? Was she created by the Witness? Did the witness just “forget” about the worm gods? I’ll never understand why they even greenlit the proto worm bs. It makes no sense

best diagram

The Final Shape, eh?

Nice video. Now explain Bomb Logic.

Needs more MS Paint

Moar conspiracy boards plz

Dad days 🫶💪🤪

No more flash bangs 😢

Uuuuh can you brake dat down for dummis dr strimmur?

yeah this new format is better but paint hits different...

so.. sword logic is a pyramid scheme?

How did Ahsa escape?

hi again (from work break lol)

You the best