Talking About Crosby at 1500 Points and His Place Among the All-Time Greats 

Sid is just a phenomenal talent. It's amazing he's still producing like he is at 35. If he hadn't missed time due to injuries he'd have over 1700 points by now. So glad that we still get to see him play, even if he has more time behind him than ahead of him.

As a Pens fan, my life as far as hockey goes has been pretty amazing. I'm curious to see how high Sid and Malkin get

As a Wings fan in England since 93 with the lack of coverage we had int he 90s, Crosby is the best all round player I've seen, honestly. I missed out on prime Yzerman and while Lidstrom is the best D I've seen (and it's not even close) he is great mainly because of defensive qualities rather than ability to dictate games like others mentioned. Crosby is just elite in every aspect of the game. Maybe the best grinder I've seen as well as probably the best passer, overall skater (low speed high speed edgework corner and board work etc), best backhand, best game management etc etc.

Been a fan of Crosby for a long time and had the pleasure to meet him when he randomly happened to be in the store that I work for in Raleigh, NC. Super cool guy and insane hockey player.

We are probably now living in the last era where it's tough to compare players between generations. 5 minutes after McDavid retires, there's going to be a 4-hour video uploaded of "every McDavid goal of all time." Crosby and Ovechkin's exploits are well documented and widely available too. For me guys, like Lafleur, Orr, and even Gretzky and Lemieux, they are clouded in a mystique because although you can find footage of them, it isn't really widely available. There are probably plenty of great Getzky plays that are lost in obscurity because they happened in some regular season game in 1984 and nobody recalls them. Nowadays you can pull up every highlight McDavid play in 30 seconds, and you will still be able to do that 20 years after McDavid retires. I do wonder how that will effect the perception of guys like Bobby Orr down the line when there are less and less guys around who actually saw him play and you only have a few clips and a stat sheet to go on.

If not for all the time missed in his prime he'd be well on his way to the 2nd player ever with 2k points. Top 5 player ever in my opinion, his points per game in the lower scoring era he played in is amazing

He’s one of the best players in the game and it’s been a great 10+ years since I started watching Penguins hockey since 2011. More impressive, he’s 35 years old and he still putting up amazing numbers! Regardless, for what the future holds for the Penguins, I’m going to enjoy every game he plays alongside of Evgeni Malkin, and Kris Letang. It’s been one heck of a ride!

I feel like Crosby is underrated recently, McDavid is everywhere, Ovi is followed for his goal race against the record, i feel like Crosby is kinda flying under the radar nowadays.

Sid basically missed seasons 6, 7, and 8. Scroll through any player's career point totals and look at those three seasons. It's like Sid's career is missing a peak. Also, Sid doesn't see hockey as a game of goals and assists. It is a game of wins, and he will contribute to the defense if it raises the team's chances of winning.

Not a Pens fan but what a hockey player he is. Wow!

I've seen them all: Richard, Howe, Orr... all of them. A lot of Gretzky in person. Crosby is in my "top players I've seen" list. An amazing all around star. McDavid is already there and before he's done I expect he'll top it.

I’m so happy I get to say to my kids that I lived through the Sidney Crosby era. If this season marks the beginning of the end of the era I can’t even be super upset. Sid, Geno and Tanger won 3 cups in a 10 year span. Some of the greatest memories of my life that I’ll never forget. Can’t ask them for more. I hope our management can salvage the team and get a gm that can turn the team around to maybe make another run but regardless of what happens I’m satisfied as a Pens fan. This city will never see a talent like Sid for a long time if ever again. (Like Mario).

To think of the pressure on him when he came in. On top of the scouting, the league was just coming out of losing a whole season and needed a face, while having to play on a terrible team in Pittsburgh. He pulled it off, and in spite of all those early injuries and concussions. As fans, having Sid and the rivalry with Ovi, we have been ridiculously spoiled for the last 18 years. I don't want it to end, but it's coming.

It's a damn shame that we were robbed of him in his prime, what an incredible talent.

To me the first player I pick for a shift in game 7 OT is Sid. He is maybe the most all around and most reliable players ever.

I remember Jagr single handedly winning many games. There were games when he just looked unstoppable.

If a spectacular player plays on a sub-par team, their numbers take a huge hit.

When you look at Sidney and Mario you just have to go wow For as great as they are they had chunks of their careers robbed from them As a Penns fan I will always say they are great but man I wish they didn't have stops in their prime year's I feel they could have gotten one more cup each

I'll never forget that shootout winner in the winter classic in '08 or the Golden Goal. Sid the Kid will forever be one of my favorites

I think for sure if he hasn't had injuries he would've easily hit 2,000 points by retirement.

First of all, love your videos and passion for the game. Great channel. Also, this video is 9 months old and Sidney Crosby is having a wonderful season at the age of 36. So I saw this and considered his career so far. I think you are correct when someone wants to make a statement on deciding who was the best player of all time in the NHL. Hockey players are positional, and it seems to me you have to categorize the best players by position or at least related to a certain category such as "best clutch player" of all time. Otherwise making the argument that so and so is the best player is very subjective. Sidney Crosby has proven he can score points as a forward (positional), he is a great leader(on and off the ice), he is an excellent skater, he is a great faceoff guy (positional), he is very good defensively, he has won personal and top tier team awards, he is a clutch player in many situations, his work ethic is outstanding, and he is a great ambassador to the game of hockey. You can't tell me Sidney Crosby does not have a passion for the game of hockey. So where does that put him in the All-Time Great category? A first-ballot Hall of Fame player says a lot, and right now it looks like his career will be talked about for many years to come.

I don't think hockey fans know how great he is shift to shift in all 3 zones, the best player I've ever seen play, top 5 all times, the best player below the goal ever

Sidney is my favorite player ever. It's been special to watch him

amazing he got to 1500 points with all the concussions.

I'm happy for sid especially since years ago everyone said he was done because of concussions

I was at the game I’m a wings fan and pens fan but was wearing my Crosby jersey he is a legend no doubt.

There is no question that Sid deserves to be on your list of the best hockey players of all-time, Shannon. I know that Wayne Gretzky has stated that Gordie Howe was the best player he had ever seen and it is hard to argue with that as well. I read Gordie's book that came-out a few years ago and I didn't realize this but, he also played baseball too while growing-up. Another player who could easily have been on your list, Shannon, is Mike Bossy.

You forgot to put Steve Yzerman in your list. He could have scored sooo much more if he didn’t sacrifice his point totals for the team. 1755 points is nothing to be taken lightly.

Absolutely Sid has to be up there with anyone. Honestly I’m a pens fan but Sid is so great because he makes everyone around him better and elevate there game to his level. He can take over games and make grown men look like boys! He has gone through a lot of head injuries and still he hit 1500!!! What a great career and I am cherishing every game he plays!👌🙌🙏🏻

Nik Lidstrom is the best and that's coming from Finn. Now days he is hardly noticed on conversation, but back then it was all about Lidstrom. Maybe I am all alone with this thought, but best defending, winning, leading and scoring points is killer combo.

Can we talk about how crosby has 91 points at age 35? Only 4 other players have done that or better. And martin st louis is the only one besides sid in this era back in 2010. Like 91 points for a 35 year old. That's insanity.

What a joy it's been to be a Pens fan for the last 35 years! I don't care who's "best," we got to watch so many great players, Lemieux, Jagr, Malkin, Sid, Letang, Coffey, Kessel, Barasso, Fleury, Pascal Dupuis (I just loved the way he played). And this is from a Boston-boy who watched Esposito, Sanderson, Orr and loved every minute of that. What an embarrassment of riches.

The 🐐. Should have 1800 by now

Congrats to Sid!

i could never love any other sports team in the world the way i love this pittsburgh penguins era

You're awesome bud. I agree it's difficult to rate players across time. But I have no problem with your assessment. My list would include Lidstrom. GLG!

Crosby is hockey's Federer. Not the g.o.a.t., but not that far off + an absolute class act winner.

I loved you mentioning my childhood idol: Guy Lafleur. We certainly have a prospect today in Connor McDavid.

One way to compare across eras is to compare what you did to the top 20 each year and overall during your career, or at least during the first 12 years.

One of the greatest players to ever play the game

I've seen Sid(NHL games) play 3 times . He's incredible, period. There's nothing else to say.

Great video as always but I’d add Hasek in that left all-time column for discussion

Paul Coffey also had 1500 points. Not saying he is the best ever, but he was underrated.

My Goat he's the most complete player ever and after next season the most consistent player ever I could go on and on about him.

At first, I was like "What? You put Crosby over Orr?" and then it was like... oh yeah, that you've watched in your lifetime. Love hearing people who watched hockey back then saying Gretz is still the GOAT

Somehow, Sid is underrated

Gotta have Hasek on the list. Best hockey player in the world in the 90s.

Howie Morenz should be included in any list of all-time greatest players.

I like your list and the order is perfect 👍! I’m a fan now thanks! For once we have a someone who knows what they are talking about on RU-vid! I thought your presentation and points were really good 👌!

Media will advertise Crosby's skating, but Crosby is a guy who can do everything on the ice. Goals, Assists, Blocks, Leadership. He can skate with the puck, he can play off the puck. most importantly, he just wants to play Hockey. He's not an "I'm in it for the paycheque" type of player. I expect playing with Lemieux in his final season was huge for him. It took him a few seasons to shed the "Cindy Crybaby" moniker. Though hockey players are hushed in general. the NHL doesn't like personalities.

Over in Boston, we’ve had a tradition of Hall of Fame defensemen, and many of our fans feel the traditions of the defensive part of the game. The great players who instilled this culture are Eddie Shore, Bobby Orr, and Ray Bourque. In my mind these 3 belong in hockey’s Pantheon along with other greats like Larry Robinson and Scott Stevens.

Have a nice summer crosby

Hopefully he can play for another three years and end up in the top five or six players in NHL points.

My entire fandom with the Pens has stemmed with Evgeni Malkin and Sidney Crosby. Modern Pens fans since the late 80s have never been around a long stretch of time where the Pens didn’t have a super star on their team (Mario, Jagr, Geno, and Sid). It’s gonna be weird when that day comes.

Another thing about Sid, I know some got on him for being boring and overly stoic, but he was such a great role model for my generation of hockey players, a guy who played the game hard and on the edge at both ends of the ice while being well spoken off the ice.

The last few videos that had a "best all time" list, always leaves out Dionne. Could be most underrated player of all time. At worst he was Lafleur's equal, but was on two terrible teams to begin the decade, Guy meanwhile drops right onto the defending Stanley Cup Champions. After Lafleur faded out, Dionne was still among scoring and points leaders each year for 15 seasons until he began to fade. No where near greatest ever, but deserves a mention on these lists.

Favorite player of all time.

IIIRC, Sid is also the first Triple Gold Captain. :D

Maybe a way to compare across eras is to look a combination of total player pool at somewhat competitive level, and also how split it is at the top. So a player coming from a "pool" of 20k players is rated lower than one of 100k players. Then players that played before the Europeans came over and or/ during the WHA/NHL split would be rated lower than today's players, though the original six era woul be rated higher based on less talent dilution. That doesn't presuppose that previous eras' players are worse by default.

Ovechkin hitting 1500 in October.

if Roy is on the list Hasek should be there too

I've been watching hockey since 2001, so I missed Gretzky's whole career and only saw the tail end of Lemieux's. I think in terms of pure talent, I've never seen anything like McDavid. He's the only player I've seen who's impact on the game is comparable to what I've seen from old highlight reels of Lemieux. Both of them consistently make other elite athletes look a step behind. The only two players that compare to McDavid that I've seen are Crosby and Ovechkin. I would probably rank them with McDavid at the top, followed by Crosby and Ovechkin. But you could really seriously make an argument for any of them. What's amazing about Crosby uniquely is that he dominates the game from the dirty areas. Crosby has a huge lower body, and it's probably his biggest physical advantage. Because of this, he's at his best when he's fighting for a puck in the corner or playing in front of the net. This is very unlike most star players. He takes a lot of contact by playing this way, and it may be why he's been hurt so much. But I think it's also why he is so endearing to his teammates. Crosby plays REALLY hard, and his effort is as inspiring to his teammates as his skill.

What about Derek Sanderson, first moustache AND sideburns in the nhl

by my count if sid had never missed a game, he would be at 1768 points rn, and lets be honest probably more. Great player.

Nicklas Lidström should be on that greatest player list also

Given Wayne's records and his acknowledgement of Gordie as the GOAT, I'd be hard pressed to argue against him.

I think 1800 is certainly possible for him if he chooses to play into some of his declining years. If he played till he’s 40 there’s no question. If he goes out at the first hint of decline like Gretzky at 38 he might only make it to 1700-something, sitting right beside his mentor, Mario Lemieux, on the all-time list

For my money, Sid is #1. When you factor in his effect on the game for the whole 200x85 feet, he has no peer.

Hey big fan. Why not N. Lidstrom? Look at his career. Might be another great video with all of the this top 5 or top 10 talk.

Crosby rates very high. Playoff success plus longevity plus toughness

I often wondered...what would the numbers be if the WHA was included. Maybe that would be worth a video 😉

I'll still go with the general consensus top 4 of Gretzky, Howe, Orr and Lemieux. Be a tough choice for me between Jagr and Crosby at #5. Rounding out my top 10 would be Ovechkin, McDavid, Richard and Beliveau. (goalies not included)

Exactly where I'd put him

Easily one of the 5 greatest of all time

It's hard to compare players of different eras. I created an interesting ranking based solely on Hart, Norris and Vezina voting. There is a good mix of players from different eras. The top 15 are : Gretzky Howe Orr Shore Hasek Lemieux Borque Harvey Beliveau Crosby Bobby Hull Ovechkin Brodeur Plante Lidstrom McDavid will break into the top 15 after this season. He will, no doubt, be ranked in the 1-5 range all time if he keeps going the way he is going.

Hasek!

Somebody else said it better than me, "Crosby is the ultimate 'mucker and grinder'".

I also think one has to look at the overall talent of the teams each player played on during their career. For example: Richard and Beliveau on the 1950s Canadiens - they had to change the rules for serving minor penalties because of how potent that team was. There's no doubting how great every player you listed is and their contributions to the team they played on, but without the supporting cast, they don't get near the points that they ended up with. One could argue that Connor McDavid has (so far) played on the least-talented teams when compared to the teams the other players played on.

Gretzky played in the WHA so if Howe gets to add non-NHL stats, so does everyone. Bobby Hull would be much higher on the NHL all-time list too. Bobby Hull was the best all-round player for me, overall, not just NHL, he had 3 50+ goal seasons in Winnipeg and a 77 goal season, didn't take stupid penalties, played the PK and PP and as Captain led the Jets to 2 AVCO Cups. He has a Stanley Cup, 7 Maurice Richard trophies, led the NHL in scoring 7 times, won 3 Art Ross, 2 Harts and a Lady Byng. Did I mention he was also Head Coach for the first 3 seasons with the Jets and Assistant Coach in the 4th? Guy LaFleur is my #2...maybe...or Gretzky...possibly Jagr. Messier #5...Moose might be higher actually, if he didn't spend those terrible seasons in Vancouver and insist on wearing #11.

I know you mentioned the "what abouts" but I think the list is missing Martin Brodeur, Bobby Hull, and Ray Bourque, if only because I value longevity despite the luck involved. I do think the greatest player is either Gordie Howe or Bobby Orr, but those other guys definitely at least belong in the conversation.

Crazy that by the end of next season McDavid will be at 1000 points and Crosby just hit 1500. wtf

I'm actually surprised Hasek wasn't on the list.

I just don’t think it’s possible to have goalies in the mix because the position is so different than skating out

Crosby #1

Hasek should be on this list.. he is probably the greatest goalie of all time.. he instilled fear in the oposition .. ask the players from that era.. hasek was god like.. back to back mvps .. 6 vezinas.. the dominator..

He'd definitely have ended up 2nd all time if he hadn't missed so many games. He still might.

Not sure about ranking him 3 but he's def on Mt. Rushmore

Top 5 all time

I knew he was going to be great. He has so much battle and compete and is the most cerebral player in the league. Mixed with super talent. He figured how to play after all his concussion issues. That was not easy. Have to say it twice he has such high IQ.

Also Martin Brodeur has to at least be mentioned in this conversation. Not saying he’s in a great GOAT conversation, but Marty was THE goalie of the NHL when I first came in as a fan!

I’d have to include Ron Francis personally.

For as good as Crosby was its hard to put him above Orr (best defenceman) and Howe (Mr Hockey). Seems like recency bias to me. 5th all time is still incredible putting him above Messier and others.

I think the best way to compare eras is by how dominate they were in their era. Gretzky would blow others away in points, compared to Crosby/Ovi. Kinda how McDavid is now, nobody even close to him in points.

Every player is playing against the best in the world with the best equipment and practices of their time. Yet each era is different. It's useless to compare them, except to say they were playing at the highest level.

I know the "what if" points get stale - but it is interesting to think about where Crosby would be if he didn't miss those 150ish games in the exact prime of his career with concussion issues.

Saying he is 3rd all time is an over exaggeration I’m fine with top 10 but top 3 is absurd with the talent that exists

Unfortunetly a combination of injuries, lockouts, and covid will ultimetly end up preventing him from reaching 2k points.

Explanation at 3 min in is why I think Sid is the best lol I’m 25 now so pretty much my memory begins with Crosby getting drafted lol n he’s really not disappointed. I remember when we weren’t sure he’d play again or be the same after the like 3 concussions in a month or whatever it was 😂 dudes got fucked up quite a few times 😂

I think Sid can realistically get to 1900 points!

I'm sorry for all the comments that say "Why isn't ____ on that list"