Tall Target Test - Critical Step For Long Range Accuracy

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I show you how to setup, perform, interpret results and ultimately diagnose and fix any issues you identify with with your optic.
This test is a critical step for long range shooting and ensuring precision and accuracy with your system.
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Gary Melton is a former U.S. Army Special Forces Green Beret, Weapons Sergeant, and Sniper Team Leader with 4 combat tours. He has worked full time as a Unit Chief and Special Tactics Instructor at a federal agency, and is the owner and Lead Instructor for Paramount Tactical Solutions.
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18 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 116

@MattDonkin430 3 месяца назад

Love how you write down the real world data, I think a lot of people are missing this point. Train to the worst case scenario... no tech, no range finder (learn how to mil targets at various ranges), and no ballistic calculator. If you can do that, then everything else is just a cherry on top.

@NickLjungberg 8 месяцев назад

Must say I’m so impressed on all time you spend to do all material and the information provided, and your dedication you have for explaining , thank you and stay safe

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

I appreciate that Nick. I abandoned the shortened “RU-vid format” which I find lacking, and provide the information just like I would teach in person. Makes for longer videos but I think it’s the only right way to do it. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@FieroGTXX 6 месяцев назад

Bingeing your channel! So glad I got a LRA SendIt From you guys. It really one of the best options. No only can you use it on the rifle but as a tool to correct other mounts as well. Great vid!

@kellyreid8230 6 месяцев назад

Excellent information Gary.

@kevinfryer380 8 месяцев назад

Just getting into long range shooting. Your videos made it a lot easier for me to understand

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

Same here. I can tell you it is well worth the trip to take the long range courses from Paramount Tactical. I went out this summer and planning on going back a couple of times next summer for at least 7 more

@cfzippo 8 месяцев назад

Gary, Thanks for these two videos. Awesome information, and really helpful. I’m just getting back into the long range sport after a 30 year lay off, and for me and for the new shooter this training is awesome! Thanks brother!

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

My pleasure. That’s what this channel is all about and I’m glad you’re getting value from our content. Make sure to join us live on Wednesdays at 7pm EDT! Thanks, Gary

@heyjohnson5535 2 месяца назад

Wow this is by far the best scope zeroing and mounting video ive ever seen knline i watched the first part awhile ago but just bought another scope so wanted to refresh everything and i really like the target setup and how useful it is to assure your scope is plum. I feel like ive never once sighted a rifle in properly now after seeing this usually i start at 50 get on paper and then move to 100 zero it and i thought that was good. But now i realize i might end up realigning everything ive built for the last 10 years. Love the plum bob method and im gonna get one of the electric levelers. Pretty cool. Really excited to use your target cause that explains why im busting things from 400 yards then after that it starts missing enough its a problem i would bet my scope isnt plum hell i didnt even use a torque wrench i didnt have 1 small enough back then but wow i feel like i just went to school again.

@tims.9883 5 месяцев назад

Great video, very informative, thank you.

@WvMnts 8 месяцев назад

Great content… Thank You for sharing. We appreciate ya. God Bless

@McgSpook 8 месяцев назад

i do like that target, time saver. i usually just draw the same or a 20 moa box thing to verify real quick. then load development starts....

@user-kx6td7le1i 6 месяцев назад

Awesome Awesome content! Thanks for the great info!

@user-qp3eb4pm1zfatcatreloading 6 месяцев назад

Awesome. Great video. 👍

@nobama3468 2 месяца назад

My 6.5 likes Hornady Precision Hunter. New to the channel, I like it here. tx

@jonb7274 8 месяцев назад

Phenomenal!! Thank you!!

@JKGuitarPro 6 месяцев назад

Same exact experience with the 6.5 PRC ammo. Hornady was very inconsistent. Started using the Norma and it's so much better.

@talgat3249 8 месяцев назад

Great video! 👍

@scott2228 3 месяца назад

Measuring from turrets!!! THANK YOU. I’ve wanted to know this answer for a long time.

@cz503 Месяц назад

Does it really mater if is from the turrets or front glass? The difference won't be noticeable in my opinion.

@scott2228 Месяц назад

True. But I was wondering if it was measured from the barrel. But again it’s splitting hairs.

@paramounttactical Месяц назад

@cz503 nah it won’t matter.

@johnwalsh7070 8 месяцев назад

When are we going to see a Paramount Tactical Data Book?? Great video, Gary!

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

There are a lot of us waiting for that too. I love the one I got during the long Range lvl 1 course. Buts almost full and I need a new one. I guess I’ll have to take another course. Oh darn

@juanherrera2672 8 месяцев назад

I have some of those us optics targets and the bottom and right side squares are smaller so use a tape measure.

@540isilver 5 месяцев назад

Thank you so much for the video. Are you still doing the online classes

@TheMarclan 2 месяца назад

I really appreciate your scope mounting and long range precision videos. Thank you!

@jeffsikula2920 5 месяцев назад

It is also good practice whether you're testing scope tracking or in competition to dial past and then back down...for example: if you want 5.2 Mils dial 5.4 then back down two clicks. You probably wouldn't need to do this for PRS but many benchrest and F class shooter do especially if you have a scope with 'mushy' turrets.

@ActinOut 6 месяцев назад

I haven't had much luck with hornady factory loads either. We'll see how they work on my 7 prc. I've scrapped hornady on my 30-06 and 6.5 prc. They've both had the same prob you've seen.

@greenman7yyy 7 месяцев назад

Thank you ..)

@justice1327 8 месяцев назад

Be made we know how to make a great video very much appreciate the time and effort you put into this below. In the video you spoke that the MPA barrel was 7.5 twist but on the app it showed an 8 twist. Will that change your elevation?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

In the app I was just showing how to do what I was discussing and where/how to make those changes in the app. That profile wasn’t actually for that gun. That profile was for my 6.5 CM rifle. Yes, you want to get the twist rate correct in the app as well. That rifle was a clients gun and I didn’t set up a profile for that gun in my app.

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

Lots of great info. Have never done a tall target test. I want to order the 90 degree mount for the SendIt level. Should I get the standard or the extended for the seekins and Ep-5? Will definitely be getting some of these targets too wish you guys had some. And sweet laser pointer

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

Extended

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

Sweet thank you

@savagegentleman3583 8 месяцев назад

We just had terrible results with two lots of Hornady TAP .308 168gr ELD-M. We had always had great results with their A-MAX, but the new stuff has been trash for my team; we are considering switching manufacturers.

@hopewilliams6705 8 месяцев назад

Awesome... No turrets are exact either and there is a way to figure out exactly what you're turrets are turning each click and can be even more exact

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

Yeah, I cover that at the end.

@hopewilliams6705 8 месяцев назад

@@paramounttactical awesome not many people are talking about a lot of those things I am still watching my kids got me away from the video last night

@johnnet2472 6 дней назад

I purchased some Hornady 6mm Creedmoor brass (May-1-24) and (3) rounds out of a lot of 100cases would not fit the case holder and (1) case had a visible hole in the neck.

@kraken1oti 5 месяцев назад

to avoid any issues with not having enough negative MOA adjustment, couldn't you put your target upside down? So now you're still aiming at that target and your shot should be down instead of up? In regards to what you say at 7:10

@fattigla 8 месяцев назад

Hornady says a tighter than 1:8 twist could negatively impact group dispersion.

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

Well, they seem to be correct. I love Hornady but that is indicative of poorly made projectiles. Norma’s bullets seem to handle it just fine. I don’t think they performed super great but Hornady’s performance is atrocious in the 6.5 PRC with 7.5 twist.

@fattigla 8 месяцев назад

@paramounttactical I have not shot the eld Match ammo but have shot the eldx precision hunter and the norma 143gr. Golden target load and have had great results in my tikka roughtech w/ 1:8 twist. The two loads shoot to the same POI out to 600 yrd. I haven't shot them any farther but will shoot out to 1000yrds after I finish corn harvest. For target, training, or life and liberty, the Norma load is hard to beat. In their podcast about the 6.5 PRC, the Hornady crew said an 8 twist should stabilize every 6.5mm bullet currently on the market. I think it's a bullet/twist compatibility problem you're having, not necessarily grain weight. I haven't pulled any bullets to compare them side by side. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

I’ve had good results with the Hornady Match ammo with my 6.5PRC. But my Seekins is a 1:8 twist. I will definitely try the Norma and see what happens

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@@fattigla I completely agree with your conclusion.

@fattigla 8 месяцев назад

@paramounttactical what is your velocity with the ELD match? (MVx720)÷twist rate= bullet rpm. 300,000 is the top end limit for an in flight jacket separation. The construction of the eldm bullet may not be able to handle that fast of rotation.

@makitaman60 8 месяцев назад

You ain't meeting me in person! You're bigger than me

@Sam-mu5xh 7 месяцев назад

What is that yellow level you used that ended up being true? I have the wheeler levels and will have to check it now. I appreciate how you showed to level basically the surface and then compare the turret on the surface to make sure it shows the same level or congruent degree of angle it is off in respect to the surface of the table or your machined block. A crutial check point for sure.

@paramounttactical 7 месяцев назад

I adjusted that wheeler level to be out of level for demonstration purposes. Even if the wheeler levels are out of level they can be easily adjusted and they are actually quite sensitive/accurate. The yellow level I showed you was a Stabila level. They’re supposed to be very accurate but I’ve had 2 that weren’t so I sent them back to Amazon. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@Sam-mu5xh 7 месяцев назад

@@paramounttactical Thank you brother, appreciate what you do.

@BRBarry 8 месяцев назад

I just bought a savage 110 high country in 6.5 prc and haven’t had the results I hoped to. I figured it was just not broken in enough, or maybe and still possibly the muzzle brake needs to be timed. Could be a few things as well as just me being a novice, but my mark II in .22lr was grouping better at 100 yrds. My question is do you think the issue with these Hornady ELD cartridges is the brass, powder or bullets? Or a combination of these? And do you think I can salvage the 200 rounds of this ammo I just ordered a few days ago if I get into reloading them?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

Who knows what the problem component could be. Fact is Hornady 6.5 PRC is not a good option. I would reload from the ground up. Try the brass and see what happens. The cartridge and the rifles have the potential, it’s just a matter if dialing in the ammo. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@mark2polo 5 месяцев назад

What shooting mat is that?

@bradgaffneyfishing6299 2 месяца назад

What app are you using for ballistic calculations?

@BOBBYDEMARCHI 8 месяцев назад

Let me know if my reasoning is right here, but when you input the correction factor into your ballistic app, the app will now tell you correct elevation when dialed and incorrect information if holding for elevation with the reticle right? Just something to keep in mind. Great video, lots of awesome information here. I’ve been mounting with the plumb bob method, I’ll try your technique next and see how it goes with the addition of a plumb bob test after leveling the scope to test reticle to scope alignment before spending the time setting up the tall target only to find out the reticle is off after getting to the range. Same same with you’re technique checking the reticle against your tall target.

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

That’s correct. If you’re dialing everything, that method will mechanically true your app so that it matches your optic if it doesn’t dial perfectly 1:1. However…. Your reticle will stay at 1:1 even if your turrets are not. Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@PrecisionDavePlumbingMore 8 месяцев назад

Love the channel just getting into using a ballistics app. Usually, I just had my log book. Question regarding corrections on ballistics app. If you're not tracking correctly, like in your example, just on one distance, and you make the correction. Wouldn't it change the impact at all distances? I'm not sure if I'm making sense.

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@@PrecisionDavePlumbingMore if your turrets are not tracking correctly it will be a percentage that is off and that percentage will apply to all distances. Does that make sense? Thanks, Gary

@PrecisionDavePlumbingMore 8 месяцев назад

@paramounttactical Yes, that is what I was referring to. So if turrets are tracking correctly, just off at one of the distances when tested. You shouldn't change the value on the app? If not, it will change it for all the distances, correct?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@@PrecisionDavePlumbingMore you only do a correction factor as described and demonstrated in the video when you see a discrepancy while doing a tall target test. If you’re just seeing a discrepancy between your data and what your app is saying at a particular distance then you most likely have some bad data typed into your app. OR… you need to true your velocity at distance. Check to make sure the velocity you input into the app is correct, twist rate, height over bore, you have the correct bullet/BC selected and understand that current density altitude that your app is collecting will cause a discrepancy between data collected from previous engagements and what your app is saying.

@magx260 7 месяцев назад

Swedish stuff (Norma) is the best. 😁

@ronmartblog 8 месяцев назад

I agree 100% with this testing but I also know that 99.9% of the time that people have meaningful errors with the ballistic apps is because they aren’t using them properly. If you don’t have your weather conditions (let’s ignore wind for this conversation) and muzzle velocity for that exact location at that time, then the app gives you a best guess. Enter the inputs properly and it’s going to be within a MOA if your gun is setup properly and you are using the same lot of ammo or loads Use 4DOF properly and it’s gonna be balls on with the proper inputs

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

Well maybe, but 99% of shooters don’t confirm their optic is mounted properly, confirm the reticle is plumb inside the optic, or confirm tracking. I’d bet 25% or greater of that 99% have one of those 3 issues to some degree. Long range is about removing variables and yet this fairly important aspect that is fairly easy to do is completely overlooked or thrown out as even being needed. People spend hours loading a couple rounds, thousands of dollars on new gear to be more precise, but skip this obvious, free, and easy step. Pretty silly.

@ronmartblog 8 месяцев назад

@@paramounttactical I have to agree with you on the check for the reticle is plumb in the optic. That one is something I never hear people mention that they checked.

@jasonwilliams7457 4 месяца назад

What about mrad?

@craneguru66 6 месяцев назад

Does it matter what power your scope is on? I don’t think it would matter personally but I’ve heard people say moving power changes POI. I think they have crap scopes if it changes POI right? Lots of good info here. I’ve never heard of a long target until now. Thanks!

@paramounttactical 6 месяцев назад

Doesn’t matter magnification. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@TrailCameraTV 2 месяца назад

If you have a basic scope with no turrets and no hold offs or a prisms scope or red dot what is the best way to shoot the tall target test? Would you change your hold point to the top of the target and move your gun back in 100 yard increments and track the impacts drop down the tall target line?

@paramounttactical 2 месяца назад

There’s no point in shooting a tall target test with an optic that has no turrets.

@millbean13 8 месяцев назад

Question. If your scope is Mil and you’re using a mil target, do you still set the target to 100 yds away from scope turret? Or do you set it up 100 meters away to conduct this test?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

That depends on how the target is designed to be used. Understand that a 1 Mil is 1 Mil at all distances so it doesn’t matter if it’s 100yds or 100 meters. Now if you buy a commercial target and it’s meant to be shot at 100yds then 1 mil will equal 3.6” @ 100 yards. If you shoot it at 100 meters 1 mil will equal 10 CM or 3.94” On this target, mils are represented at 3.6” intervals so you know it’s meant to be shot at 100 yards. If you make your own target you can keep those measurements in mind and determine if you’d like to shoot it at 100yds or 100 meters.

@billcarlson852 8 месяцев назад

Your erratic match grade Hornady ammo HAS "COVID"....

@sfpawloski2 8 месяцев назад

I never seen that target before how do get some

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

I cover that in the first few minutes of video.

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

Already ordered some. Wish I could have gotten directly from paramount.

@ChicagoHOG27 8 месяцев назад

At the 20 minute mark, it looks like if you draw a line through your shots, you get a straight line. Wouldn't that indicate your electronic level could favor a rightward lean?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

You’d have to shoot groups to come to any conclusion. I was low on ammo and quite frankly smoked. By the time I started shooting I had been on range for over 5hrs with setup and different shots/takes. That gun with that ammo was about a 1/2- 5/8 MOA combination. The furthest from center any of the clean shots were was .25. So that’s well within the precision capabilities of that rifle/ammo and about what I’d expect to see on one side of center line or other. But as I stated, you need at least a 3rd group to make any specific determination. If there was real cant built in at the level or in optic, at the furthest end we would see a much more significant deviation from center. The intent of this video was to show you how to perform the test so don’t get caught up in the results of this. Conduct the test on your rifle/setup and analyze that. Thanks for watching! -Gary

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

I have one of those levels and have seen several used and none of them have been off at all

@KrisSays 8 месяцев назад

Quick question... Shouldn't the mill target be at 100 meters and not yards?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@KrisSays 8 месяцев назад

@@paramounttactical Thank you for the clarification! Have a wonderful weekend!

@billcarlson852 8 месяцев назад

Ammo assembled during the COVID ERA AND HORNADY'S PRECISION STANDARD...yeah

@joshjohnson1653 8 месяцев назад

So, are we loving MOA again, or is it the devil still?😂

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

Still the devil. Gary had to make the video easy to follow for the MOA guys. They can’t comprehend MIL

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

What he said. 😂 MOA Sucks!

@ChicagoHOG27 8 месяцев назад

Mil is easy math in your head. Moa might be more specific, but the math is much harder in a rush. Mil all day!

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@@ChicagoHOG27 MOA isn’t “more precise” as I cover in depth in my MOA Sucks Part II video. MIL can do everything MOA can do and do it better. MIL can also do many things that MOA can’t do as well. Those are just facts MOA users can’t seem to grasp. MIL is faster, easier to learn, and more efficient. But… some people shoot in a way they don’t need that. Shooting at one target, at one distance, with no time constraint, then I guess MOA is all you need. 🤷‍♂️

@Driver-ur9mf 8 месяцев назад

Comment for miss Susan

@watti-yi7sw Месяц назад

If it's not written down it never happened. 😊

@McgSpook 8 месяцев назад

MOA Optics!? htf that thing make it out of quality control without a MIL reticle?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

I wondered that myself. 🤔

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

They let the handicapped workers put a couple out a year so they feel important. They know there are handicapped people that will buy them.😂

@McgSpook 8 месяцев назад

@@jasonsponsler21 LMAO, thats actually a pretty good one. Of course, MOA people are the ones that are ok using numbers larger then 10.

@jasonsponsler21 8 месяцев назад

@@McgSpookyou mean they enjoy working harder for a lower standard of output. Got it. 😂

@McgSpook 8 месяцев назад

@@jasonsponsler21 nah, think micrometer vs tape measure. if you are cutting a 2x4 a tape measure is fine. but if you are talking about thousands of an inch, you need that micrometer. MIL is like that. its large and easy to use. An honestly if a person/rifle can't shoot precise enough to see the difference when they move the point of impact it doesnt matter. I just so happens that i do, so MOA it is. My entire target is only 5 inches at 1k. a 3.6 in move per click means i can almost completely move past it. Now, when im shooting the big 20 inch steel gong at 1k, i could care less if moa or mil. Frankly, shooting steel at any range MIL is fine. Also, i was thinking the other day about people saying "in the real world" it matters. Well, this is my real world. Im not a spec ops sniper in afghanistan. Neither are the 99% of americans learning to shoot long range. My assumption is that you arent either. Im just some old fat Marine that likes to shoot little groups at long distances. I guess if its time to scream "wolverines" ill take a MIL reticle scope off someone that doesnt need it anymore and keep on rolling lol.

@1970bosshemi 8 месяцев назад

10 cm per mil @100m. And this is why Mils are better 😂

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

One of a 100 reasons.

@bertwutzke6155 2 месяца назад

Plumline??? You said on your other video that plumlines don't work???

@paramounttactical 2 месяца назад

Lmao. You need to work on your listening comprehension. I NEVER said plumb lines don’t work. That’s like saying gravity doesn’t work. I said using a plumb line to level your optic isn’t good because reticles can be out of plumb in the optic. If you level an optic that was manufactured with the defect of an out of plumb reticle that method masks that problem and your optic will never track accurately and it’s difficult to diagnose. It never fails to surprise me how people can completely disconnect what I actually say and what they hear. You need to listen better and understand that context is important.

@JayD_113 8 месяцев назад

What range were shooting at?

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

100 yds

@JayD_113 8 месяцев назад

@@paramounttactical my bad, I mean what is the name of the range you’re shooting at. I normally shoot at Peacemaker but i like the looks of the range you’re on.

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

@@JayD_113 it’s not public. It’s Summit Point Training Facility which is where we have our shop and hold all of our courses.

@John-uo1qf 3 месяца назад

Alright folks 😂

@jordanm6m637 7 месяцев назад

So.... what racetrack is that. Lol

@makitaman60 8 месяцев назад

That's why we use a plumb line in the beginning 😂

@paramounttactical 8 месяцев назад

I don’t think your comprehension skills are all that great. If you use a plumb line to level an optic, it will mask a reticle out of plumb. It’s like I’m teaching Joe Biden long range here…🤷‍♂️

@MTCKIE68 Месяц назад

The frustrating thing about this video is MOA, and you say MIL is better. In my opinion Mil is far better but you can't use it in your teaching 🤔

@paramounttactical Месяц назад

This video had nothing to do with MOA vs MIL.

@MTCKIE68 Месяц назад

@paramounttactical No shit genius. 🤔 But you should've used it when you're pushing for people to switch. You have done 3 or 4 videos to prove Mil is better, then use it for the rest of your videos.

@makitaman60 8 месяцев назад

😂😂😂😂😂😂

@bertwutzke6155 2 месяца назад

And your using factory ammo lol good luck with that lol