Load Development Test Made Easy!

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Outlining my process for determine the seating depth on my loads from start to finish.
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#fclassjohn #reloading #seatingdepth

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4 янв 2021

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Комментарии : 337

@ErikCortina 3 года назад

And to think you were a land chaser when I met you. 😂 That load is gonna kick some butt John! Good job. One small edit to my method. I don’t wait until accuracy falls off to move. I often test 0.003” and 0.006” forward of my current seating depth to see if my node has moved forward. If it has, I change seating depth. Goal is to never fall out of the node.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thanks Erik and I always appreciate the help and constructive criticism, it’s how I (we) get better.

@michaelajero2409 3 года назад

You and Eric have the most useful and informative videos for rifle accuracy and precision by a huge margin. Thanks

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you, I appreciate that.

@aaronarcher2356 3 года назад

I like that what they say makes sense.

@richardrisner3635 2 года назад

+1 to that bro you and Eric have been my guide for getting into precision reloading

@cjamonwilliams Год назад

Yeah...these guys have improved my regular hunting loads exponentially. I'm not a competitive shooter, just like good ammo tuned to my weapon system. So watching these vids have markedly improved my loads and I even wanna take down some of the ammo I have loaded already and start over!

@matthewtracy8744 3 года назад

The info you put out is straight up class room material!! Great info!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and glad it helps.

@paulleeper3188 3 года назад

Between you and Eric C I learn something new every video! Thank you.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Glad it helps!

@DarthLepard 3 года назад

I never comment but this was a great video, really appreciate the explanation about how you bracketed the jump and why you chose the closest.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. I’m appreciate the kind words.

@johnwesolowski8896 Год назад

Great vid and it truly inspires me to get deeper into reloading for rifle. I don't quite understand all the technical terms but through your video I can stop, look them up and thus learn a great deal. Thank you from a true newbie.

@davidgreer9567 3 года назад

Dang those ES and SD would be awesome in a 5 round group. 30 rounds that's some serious consistency and skills. Nice job.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@lovetoflylovetofly3843 3 года назад

Amen!

@o2wow 3 года назад

Exact...ly, pardon the pun.

@Strelnikov10 2 года назад

Quick stats note: While you would expect ES to increase with an increase in sample size, that relationship is not linear, it's logarithmic. In other words, diminishing returns as you increase sample size. Regarding SD, you would actually expect SD, all things being equal, to become smaller as sample size increases. As your sample size increases, the distribution of scores aggregates more tightly around the mean. All of this, of course, is assuming a normal distribution. Given the dynamics of load data, we can safely assume a normal distribution of velocities. I'm a statistician and I'm thinking of uploading a "Stats Class for Shooters" course. Polling for interest... does that sound like something you would watch? Please respond either way.

@davidgreer9567 2 года назад

Sounds Well above my little brain but I'm definitely game to learn more on the topic

@G5Hohn 2 года назад

The velocity consistency is incredible.

@GianniG55 3 года назад

Great video John, super consistent velocity spreads with groups to match the results excellent work ...nice..👍👍

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@rodocs7 3 года назад

Thank you . You always make great videos!!!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you for the kind words.

@kevinpospesch3476 3 года назад

Greetings from Germany and a happy and a healthy new year John I started longrange half a year ago. The videos from you and Erik are so informative. I have learned so much from you and at the same time avoided many mistakes. I started with .308 Blaser Tactical. Now I'm venturing into 300 WinMag. My wife surprised me at Christmas with a SAKO TRG 42. I now have work ahead of me. Sharing your experience, your posts will make the road much shorter. I learn from the best!!! Many many thanks. Kevin

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and I really appreciate the kind words.

@bobbythompson3544 3 года назад

So well explained, thank you Sir!

@RetrieverTrainingAlone 3 года назад

I love your teaching explanations!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@GunWodan 3 года назад

Thanks so much for sharing. It‘s a great pleasure watching you work. There is a lot to learn from your procedures and the way you draw conclusions for a novice like me! Amazing insight!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and glad it helps!

@jeffclark9500 3 года назад

I have heard this many times, but it just never fully made sense. I now am confident that I can make this work for me, Thanks.

@ronnydowdy7432 3 года назад

Enjoying the show and can't wait for the tuner show. Good information

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and I'm working it on it now. Waiting to shoot a final 600yd target on Tuesday and then I'll post it.

@paulgroniger4494 3 года назад

Very thorough video and explanation, nice job John. Two quick comments: 1) The slightly lower velocity on day two may be due to temperature... 2) I will usually run two or three 3-shot groups for charge and seating dial in tests just to rule out human error (which never happens right?) or any component or load anomalies.

@happyhome41 2 года назад

This is a wonderful video - understandable and actual data. Thank you.

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you

@SnipeU696 3 года назад

Thank you.

@paulcupach8196 Год назад

Perfect explanation!!

@desabc221 3 года назад

You explain everything in simple turns. Everyone’s brains work a little bit different. Excellent stuff! You are going to cost me a lot of money!!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad my videos help you.

@artbogden4958 3 года назад

Awesome video enjoyed every second of it, thanks for all the advice and thanks for all the information. Priceless .🇺🇸

@ReloadingQuest 3 года назад

Enjoyed the video! You did a really good job explaining!

@timg6252 3 года назад

Great video John and a fantastic example of the accuracy required to perform at the top level of the sport. 1/3 to 1/4 moa elevation,, consistently. It's not bragging, it's necessary. At the 2017 WCs with with over 3500 points on the card the difference between winners and 1st losers was a whopping 5 points, 0.14% In FTR it was 3400 vs 3394, 6 points, all credit to Bryan for waiting. EVERY SINGLE POINT COUNTS.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and I appreciate what you said. It’s absolutely true. I shot a match last year where I shot a clean score of 600-34X and still wound up in 4th place. It’s a crazy discipline in that regard.

@fasteddie4107 3 года назад

Great stuff! Thank you.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@wendyheller8916 3 года назад

Very informative. Great job.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@AlbinGwiazda 3 года назад

Hello, congratulations on your great result. Thank you for the good lesson and best regards from Poland

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and I’m glad you enjoyed it.

@mariusmusat1038 3 года назад

Great video. Thank You🇸🇪

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Glad it helped.

@gylfif 3 года назад

Wery informative video. Amazing es numbers. Thanks for sharing great professional tips.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

My pleasure and glad it helps.

@2000willsome 3 года назад

Great video, thanks!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@cornydad 3 года назад

Looks great to me. Thanks for the info.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Glad it was helpful

@15TNar 3 года назад

Great job explaining

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Glad it helped.

@Jeff_Seely Год назад

Happy Thanksgiving John and my wife is rolling her eyes at the sound of hearing your 30-shot segment coming out of my phone speaker as I watch this clip at the Thankgiving table. She's great because she knows I'll never change and she didn't kick me out yet🙄🤣. Holy Moses, those ES numbers are not what I get! I am like a sponge to this channel though and thanks for the videos from which we all learn and benefit👍

@FClassJohn Год назад

Thank you for the kind words Jeff and Happy Thanksgiving

@ironbomb6753 3 года назад

I am wowed by your velocity numbers! Wow! I've never attained that kind of consistency. I will tho. 👍 Great video, again. 🙂

@darrynjones325 3 года назад

Es unbelievable 👍👍

@zeke1eod 2 года назад

Very well done, awesome numbers, this is how accuracy should be chased. Extremely informative and helpful for us reloaders/hunters who want the best group to take accurate/ethical shots. Thanks for sharing, God bless

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you.

@cjamonwilliams Год назад

Absolutely love the fact that he's a Lefty shooting Righty..

@melectrician 3 года назад

Thanks for this, really good info but more so thanks to you and eric. I am a shooting coach and a prs competitor and i love the shooting sports for the exact reason you do the videos. Simply put no secrets, everyone helps you get better. Kind of a heres how i do it now with all things being equal, now try and outshoot me one the line 😂

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Exactly. I’ve been really fortunate to shoot with some really good people who have the same mentality and I think it’s like a lot of things in life. I would rather train a lot of people to be better than me then do my hardest to keep everybody beneath me. My biggest rewards are when somebody that I’ve helped out shoots me.

@RickConnolly 3 года назад

Excellent!!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@toddb930 2 года назад

Great explanation!!

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you.

@longrange1114 3 года назад

Great no-nonsense method. Also cool to see how seating depth had minimal to no effect on velocity and SD.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and you’re correct, seating depth has virtually zero if any effect on speed. It won’t unless you shoot some that jump and some that jam. Then you’ll see a slight variance in most cases.

@stevenmartens6692 2 года назад

Geeking out here .... good content

@amirdzaferovic3489 3 года назад

Great video!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@James-prs-uk 3 года назад

Nice clean score can’t ask for more

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@johnknouse8846 2 года назад

That SD is amazing!

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you.

@BTOMF 3 года назад

Excellent video

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@wowitslou 3 года назад

Amazing video, this is gold to a noob. Thank you

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

My pleasure. I’m glad it helps.

@35southkiwi16 3 года назад

interesting. thanks

@ericm3876 3 года назад

Great information, I was going to ask about the remote trigger but saw the info in another comment. Thanks for all the great content, I am learning a lot! Between you and Erik, I am dialing in some good loads. Would like to hear your opinion on neck turning.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

jklprecision.com/product/labradar-trigger/

@johngoodwin2768 3 года назад

Thank you for the very informative video. I might be blind, but I didn't see what type of powder you were using. Cheers

@bloke3006 3 года назад

Sick ES!

@alphadogpredators 3 года назад

Jesus those are some consistent velocities !

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you.

@20DYNAMITE06 2 года назад

My brother and I are just getting into reloading, and your channel seems like a great resource! Thanks! BTW- I’m 99% certain we’re members of the same range. Hope to see you around!

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you for the kind words and hope to see you around.

@davidgriffin1615 Год назад

@@FClassJohn Question: Where is the range you are shooting at located. Address Please.... Thank you

@jazzprakash7563 3 года назад

Love the videos. You do a great job explaining all the different techniques. What is the purpose for de-priming first before you resize the brass?

@jazzprakash7563 3 года назад

@John Beige I gwt that part but why not resize and de-prime at the same time then clean the PP. I was just wondering because I see a lot of guys deprime before they reaize. just trying to see if there is a reason or just personal preference. Thank you John.

@wvlongshooter3912 3 года назад

I eat this data up!!!!! I ran this same analysis yesterday, actually I’ve been running it for the past three days. I appreciate what you are doing !! Still scratching my head on the cbto’s changing on the driven loaded ammo, I think there are measuring tool and environmental issues changing my cbto’s slightly.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you and glad you enjoy the material.

@wvlongshooter3912 3 года назад

@@FClassJohn Erik cirtinia was my first patreon and I’ll be one of yours as well if you go that route.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

@@wvlongshooter3912 thank you. I’m working towards that.

@redteam9881 7 месяцев назад

It’s going rise up as the velocity increases it’s flattening the trajectory curve

@tpalshadow 3 года назад

Do you have a video on your powder test or do you just pick a charge, go up incrementally and look for a node, similar to this? Thanks!

@briancobb978 3 года назад

Awesome video always look forward to watching and learning, keep them coming. Have have you thought about doing some prs?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. I’ve shot PRS once but didn’t have the best setup for it. Maybe someday I’ll go back and give it another run.

@drolds7246 3 года назад

Assuming you have a good idea of where tuner will be set, do you crank tuner all the way in to do the jump test, or keep it close to last known good setting?

@oif3vetk9 Год назад

Always fun watching vids like yours and Erik's but us gas gun PRS guys live in a totally different world when it comes to handloading. Magazine length is real. lol I can get single digit sd's and low teen es but there is no starting that close to the lands and grooves. (At least with a manufactured barrel from say aero precision) It's all good though. That's just a thing you accept when you decide to take the gas gun path.

@tradermonk9403 Год назад

Thanks John! Have you filmed a video all about "Node"?

@ElmoColt45 3 года назад

Hello F-Class John, I've watched your videos and i really looked at the meplat trimming and the setting the tip of the bullets, I have the tools you use Hoover , I shoot a 6.5x47 Lapua 24in barrel, with a Big Horn action, I use the Berger 140's Hybrid Match, I trimmed a couple of meplat and sized the tips, but the tips were Kinda ragged, I trimmed some more and looked at at the trimmed bullets, the nose was still ragged, the noses of the round from the box are really nice, no jagged edges, so, I just set them in my die and very gently sized the tips, they are perfect, no bulges or donuts, have you ever done this, and did you like the results? Thanks, Elmo.

@davidschmidt5810 3 года назад

Great video! One thing I found the hard way was not to trust the micrometer on the seating die because it measures from the point of the bullet and different lots have variances from point to ogive. But, I see you use both so all good.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you

@emoryzakin2576 3 года назад

Wow John awesome work thank you! This is why I get up an hour early before taking the kids to school lol one question how long do you rest the rifle between shots/groups?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. As for the groups I just shoot all 30 in a row. It’s not much different than shooting a single relay and the barrel never heats up enough to hurt any data.

@rgthomson100 2 года назад

Jam Secant and jump Tangent, 20 thou off great place to start for jump, works just about every time

@Halfmilesniper 3 года назад

Very good info and an outstanding run (and X count) on your match. I couldn't help but notice you have your rifle set up to eject to the left...do many set their rifles up like that?

@beardedbowhunter6139 2 года назад

I've noticed that on several of these custom bench rest rifles. I assume it's for ease of loading since they are single shot but I don't have a clue tbh

@adeniranm7647 3 года назад

Are you going to post a video of the tuner test? Would be interesting in seeing the next step. Thanks for sharing!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Here ya go. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7kWNe5tOBek.html

@skycam321 3 года назад

Almost speechless, the information you presented and the way you presented it is exceptional. I have been doing similar development with powder charges for a few years, but never thought to do it with jump (and I have no idea why). The idea of staying a the front of the bracket makes total sense. I do have one question. Your sweet spot is at the very back of your test range so why would you not keep going to find out just how long that sweet spot might be?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you for the kind words. As for the sweet spot, I could keep going but I’ve never really found much use in doing that and it can lead to a lot of waste barrel life and components. Sometimes less is more.

@honcho714 2 месяца назад

Gotta love a 3 holer.

@86309 3 года назад

Awesome

@FalconXit 3 года назад

Finished load development and the seating test. Don't own an EC Tuner but do have a Harrell's to try. Hope you post your Tuner video soon so I can try to get my .346 groups a little tighter in my 7mm08.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

I'll try to get one done this week but here's my last video on the tuner. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7kWNe5tOBek.html

@FalconXit 3 года назад

@@FClassJohn Thanks F-C J, that gives me a place to start. The Harrel moves up the barrel instead of adding weight forward but the concept should still apply. Will know more on Friday. Always looking forward to your next video.

@timfarley6493 3 года назад

I always come away from one of your videos with useful knowledge, thank you. I have two questions for you. First where can I acquire the targets you are using, and second, you set your LabRadar back further from the barrel, and at a greater distance to the side of the barrel than LabRadar covers in their instructions. Please explain. Thanks for your time.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Here's the targets. www.autotrickler.com/uploads/6/3/4/4/63444023/load_development_target.pdf As for the Labradar, I use a remote trigger so it doesn't matter where I put the unit.

@johnswinkels4383 Год назад

Back in the waggon wheel days like 40-50 years ago the general consensus was to seat the projectile until it just touched the lands so I guess there is no bullet jump. The only downside is if you are using a high power there is no margin for error and pressure can escalate quite rapidly. I know that one of the reasons Sako idiot-proof their firearms is by machining the lands deeper in the barrel so magazine length does not allow you to do this.

@garycasteel277 8 месяцев назад

It would be interesting to repeat this exact test and compare

@aga5979 7 месяцев назад

very useful information. I learned a lot. What is the machanical rest you are using?

@FClassJohn 7 месяцев назад

This is an older video and at the time I was using a Seb Mini. I am now using a Seb NEO X.

@tiputipu777 3 года назад

I would pick the depth in the middle just to make sure I stay in the accuracy node if I have slight fluctuation in seating depth accuracy

@hrbricker 3 года назад

In accordance with your post, I wonder how I can know for sure which way barrel wear will affect my position relative to the node. Will I be approaching the slope or moving away from it?

@charleswilson577 6 месяцев назад

Do you Always shoot that slow. Haha. Great video my man. Thanks

@tika7mm 3 года назад

Excellent as always John. I didn't see this being answered yet, maybe I missed it. Are you cleaning between every session? Thanks, keep it up!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Oh boy, the cleaning question 😱 Sooooooo I don't clean nearly as often as you would think. In fact I've only cleaned this barrel once around 30rds in so far and it's got over 200 rds on it.

@Halfmilesniper 3 года назад

My Model 70 hunting rifle that I bought 40 years ago was interesting. I scoped it for giggles when I got my borescope only to find 40 years of copper choking the bore. I did a video on the barrel and cleaning since this barrel had never seen copper solvent. I got a lot of flak from folks telling me how I had ruined the accuracy or wasted my time. Never mind this barrel was so choked it was causing accuracy issues and needed the copper cleaned out. My competition pistols get cleaned about every 1K rounds (a match weekend and practice).

@teo59 3 года назад

Do you have also the powder charge test video?

@justice1327 3 года назад

Nice videos and thank you for the time you put in this. Question: you mentioned that you have a problem with the vertical strings but not with the horizontal... why is that?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Because for the most part vertical indicates an issue with the load while horizontal is condition. I can adjust for condition but not for a bad load.

@justice1327 3 года назад

@@FClassJohn Thank you. So a bad load can give you a vertical spread, but rarely a horizontal spread.

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

@@justice1327 i guess it’s a little conditional. If your horizontal matches the vertical then it’s still a bad load but when the vertical is a fraction of he horizontal then I can often feel comfortable that it’s conditions and same this with vertical being the load when the vertical is excessive compared to the horizontal. Does that make sense?

@justice1327 3 года назад

@@FClassJohn Perfect! I have just started verifying my 6mm Comp Match load data at 300yds and 600yds. I am better informed now, thank you.

@dale193 3 года назад

Thanks for a really informative vid. BTW, that looks like Tri County Gun Club in Oregon -- is that where you recorded this?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Glad it helped you and yeah, it's TCGC.

@James-prs-uk 3 года назад

What die and case you using and how you do fing the rest over a seb neon

@paulmallery6719 Год назад

She is right on what the people want

@diamon4u 2 года назад

Hi John, what powder are you using and your 2.50 starting what are you measuring to?

@125saito Год назад

Hi John. Thanks for this informative video. I was curious how or if you consider barrel fouling and barrel heat in your testing.

@FClassJohn Год назад

I always try to have a clean barrel, then run a couple fouling shots before starting. I don't focus on area heat as much as I used to but in a perfect world I just want the barrel to be in the same state as it would be during my matches.

@125saito Год назад

@@FClassJohn Great answer, thank you.

@Music-kz9ol 3 года назад

Be careful of getting too close to the lands if you are going for velocity closer to lands equals higher pressure. Look at Roy Weatherby’s data, he loaded max powder and had the bullets .02 to .03 off the lands in order to reduce pressures, new bullet design negate seating depth issues. How close are your loads to max powder?

@James-prs-uk 3 года назад

What powder are you using and is this in a straight 284 we use rs60 in most are 284 or shehanes over here in the uk 51.7/52 g 2850

@rogerseymour560 3 года назад

XLNT info, Thanks for posting. Who makes that Vise/Bipod that you are using?? Thanks again

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. Here’s the rest therodzilla.com/product/t-rex-front-rest/

@sonnyadams7894 28 дней назад

Mr. John, Starting off with "combustion/powder" testing, where are you seating the bullet? .009" ? Then for "seating depth" testing, begin .009" off as in this video? Just trying to figure the seating depth Starting point when performing the powder testing. Thank you sir.

@leoburns9674 3 года назад

Always helpful John... thanks for the education! Two questions: 1) what range do you do sight-in work (100m?); and 2) Do you have a commercial source for those targets? I assume you sight in to warm up to the center “X” and then dial down? Have a great day!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. I do all my development at 100yds. As for the targets here’s you go, just print them out and yes I shoot the X to reset my zeroes on the scope for the new load and then dial down for the tests. www.autotrickler.com/uploads/6/3/4/4/63444023/load_development_target.pdf

@josephdugas8522 3 года назад

How do you determine what node to load To and how do you find the where the node

@stevenewsom6866 3 года назад

Does seating depth still make a difference if you are shooting something like an AR where maybe it’s not possible to get the bullet close to the lands? Say for example your mag length is 2.26 and the bullet doesn’t touch the lands until you have a 2.35 OAL.

@asanta5390 2 года назад

G'day John , was your powder 4350 or N 150 . I. In Australia and trying a few . We don't have powders you guy's have. Am I close? . All you guys put up is invaluable. Keep it up . Cheers 🍻 👏

@FClassJohn 2 года назад

Thank you. I believe in this test I was using Reloder 16 but now I am using H4350.

@bryancampbell9312 3 года назад

Awesome video, what caaliber/bullet are you testing

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

.284win

@jamo78s3 3 года назад

Brilliant es an sd. if you don't mind me asking which powder weighing device do you use?

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. I use the AutoTrickler system.

@steveshortt90 3 года назад

Info is awesome mate! 😎 Does shooting off if a sled get boring??

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Thank you. As for the sled, it's not really a sled and as such still keeps it challenging every time I shoot. It's just a front rest and rear bag so lots of variable still.

@tedlofland3446 8 месяцев назад

How far away from the lands from the ogive do you seat the bullet when doing the powder charge testing?

@johnkennedy6331 3 года назад

Hi John, would you explain the layout of your target, how you use it and where to get it. Thank you!

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

I’ll do you one better, I’ll actually make a short video on it and post today or tomorrow. I’ve had several people ask so it makes sense to do a video explaining the situation of what I do.

@johnkennedy6331 3 года назад

@@FClassJohn Perfect, that would be great! Thanks again!

@hrbricker 3 года назад

See in believing, (I Think). I was surprised to see from your tests, that seating has so little effect on Velocity. I am an electronics technician with lots of familiarity with resonance. Thus I am vitally interested in factors which affect the exact position of a bullet with respect to resonance at the point of exit. I had thought that seating had a dramatic effect on pressure and thus velocity, but your tests seem to refute that premise. More thoughts later if I can find a way to make it sound sensible. Much obliged for your presentation

@FClassJohn 3 года назад

Yeah it’s very common to see no real velocity variance once you’re in the node. Of course there’s other factors like good brass prep that can have a big effect on velocity no matter how you’re testing so it’s important to have those pieces in place first.