The little details in this sequence are masterful, like the rocket missing, and the tank operator's family picture falling in front of view. Those tiny moments tell miniature stories themselves.
@@m1a1abramstank49 I mean they can just duck. Gunships aren't exactly effective in urban environments. In open ground they would be sitting ducks though.
RegularViking Ducking won’t make you faster than a missile going faster than a fighter jet, the world ain’t the matrix. They aren’t effective fighting in there, that’s why they can strike out of the city on mechs, and to actually get mechs to climb those heights would have little to no armor, infantry exists for a reason. Without infantry in urban or scouting it’s a big mistake. Mechs aren’t gonna be practical, just deal with it.
Be nice, this is a real-world problem that tank crews are trained to overcome. Enemy moves around tank, turret traversal can't keep up? Jeep with an anti-tank missile launcher, for example. Driver of tank works with gunner, and traverses the entire tank! This serves to swing the turret faster, allows keeping up with an agile foe. Didn't see anyone use this tactic; it was perfected in WWII, by all sides. Not a criticism on anyone involved in the production of the show, just an odd oversight.
Tank dint use tactic i saw in gundam a federetion solder took down 1 zaku alone with only a anti ms luncher before die doing a record of 13 ms kill as anti mobile suit unit specialist
@@mechamax7919 not actually. everything works better in tank form. you have armor to deflect tank shells? it'd be more stable with tanks. you have motor to rotate arms and legs? it will operate better when it's in tank tracks. you have guns for big mechs? it will shoot further, way accurate when it's on tank. every single technology you can put in to a mech, works way better with tank.
Mammoth Mk3 In tank to tank fight, or hell, tank to everything fight they always spread out to prevent being taken out all at once by an artillery/air strike, but not to spread so they can cover each other.
In many series, mechs are plot armor, where in gundam (UC timeline) they're not and realistic, because of Mynovsky particles and that the mechs are big enough to put a nuclear fusion reactor
Yes, this is complete and utter bullshit. Lightspeed missiles executing impossible turns to hit centimeter sized targets while actual frakking cannons can't hit a slow mech somehow sidestepping vastly faster bullets. Also, these are not even tanks, but IFVs...
Considering that a modern MBT with modern targeting systems can shoot a moving helicopter out of the air, those tanks and IFVs missing those mechs even at close range is pathetic. If they had Knightmare Frame levels of mobility, it would be a little less unlikely, but with the levels of mobility displayed in the video, there's no reason for those MBTs and IFVs to be missing.
Knightmare Frame will get shredded by SPAAG like Gepard, Shilka or Tunguska anyway. Using tanks against them is like using artillery to attack a lone infantryman. Think about it, SPAAG were designed to hit plane flying close to - or at Supersonic in 3 dimensional movement. KMF has 2 dimensional movement (jumping didn't count, you still fall back to the ground regardless of how high you can jump, and jumping make you a sitting duck even further) and certainly not moving at Supersonic when friction on the ground still higher than in the air and they didn't use Formula 1 engine on it. And KMF has official weight slightly heavier than Panzer II from World War 2, its armor certainly Not up to tank level unless you said they were made by unobtainium that provide protection of a 50 tons tanks, but then again, they Cannot armor limb joints like shoulders, elbows, knees, hips or neck, made the thing riddled with weak spots anyway. All these means that AA gun has more than enough punch and accuracy to reliably wreck them, using tank is using wrong tool for the job. Also, legged design like that are absolute Hell to recover if get stuck / disabled / knock out, you can just using another tank to towed a knocked out one back to machine shops on its own wheels even when its tracks broke, but mecha? You might as well abandon it - like King Tiger, Jagdtiger and Elefant in WW2. Oh, and those many moving parts on mecha means it also absolute Hell to maintenance too; perhaps to the point that you could maintain tanks plus the whole crews on double or triple the number of mecha and their pilots with the same budget. The only way I see mecha to be plausible and practical is Powered Armor - not Iron Man level, but something like those suits in The Matrix, Avatar or Edge of Tomorrow.
machaiping The anti aircraft systems you where talking about where designed to be used against Aircraft. The radars used are anti aircraft radars, not ones meant for detecting things on the surface. So their guidance systems used to target fast moving aircraft would be hard pressed to hit anything with no targeting information to work with. So no, Tanks and APCs would be far better suited to taking down mechs than a SPAAG. Also, I never said that Knightmare Frames or any mech at all would be a good combat vehicle. So why the hell did you write a whole giant rant about it as if I did say that? All I said was that if the mechs in the video had a Knightmare's level of mobility, it would make it slightly more believable than it is normally.
+Chase Johnson Ah, sorry for the rants. But you know, I like mecha when I was a kid, but when I grown up and study physic in classes... let just say that kid dream burst when it made me realized how ridiculously impractical mecha is. Still, even without Anti Aircraft Radar, the SPAAG still more viable than tank when you think about it; it has fast moving turret and gun and rapid fire;- a result of designed to track and kill supersonic aircraft - so mecha's fancy gymnastic cannot jink itself out of their hail of leads that easily. And mecha's flimsy armor (except it's fantasy unobtainium armor) won't save them from those leads either. APC or IFV, it depend on what you equip them with, but I am certain that any autocannon will track and kill mecha just fine (again, not unobtainium fantasy armor), Tank just too slow-firing to trap the physic-defying thingy, and Machine guns are too weak unless you hit mecha weak spots.
machaiping But you also fail to consider that the SPAAG's thin armor would mean much higher losses for a force of SPAAGs compared to a force of more heavily armored tanks and APCs that would be able to better withstand return fire from the mechs. Also, modern MBT turrets and IFV/APC turrets turn very quickly as well.
2:36 When the ATGM hits and destroys the Tank, you can see a framed picture of the Drivers family fall for a split second. That is such a split second, minute detail that you dont see a lot of things nowadays.
I think I saw a video from the perspective of insurgents in real life when they saw a modern armored vehicle. The turret traversed so fast that it was already pointing in their direction before they realized they had to run. There's no way a mech is gonna win in a fight on open ground with a modern armored vehicle in a cost effective way. Mechs simply do not replace tanks, they would fit their own niches. Spec Ops could be a niche, where you need a glass cannon that can tip-toe through mine fields and sneak in city streets. Another possible niche could be as a commander's vehicle, surrounded by traditional tanks. It would serve as an observation platform, firebase, intelligence gathering, and countermeasure asset all-in-one. I would imagine that, when the battlegroup comes under fire, the mech could deploy a massive ir smokescreen and cover the battle group, while its torso is sticking out above the smoke and returns fire, all the while while relaying targeting data to the tanks covered by the ir smoke. The last niche would be as the transition between armor and infantry. While Humvees with machine guns and infantry fighting vehicles are nice, an elevated position with fewer possible crew casualties is nicer. You see, the enemy would have to choose whether to waste their RPG on the tall spindly walker with a machine gun and a crew of one, or the tank with a crew of five...and the catch is, the spindly thing is gonna probably see them before they get a line of sight on the tank. While the engineering costs are more for the anti-infantry mech, the material costs would be less, and the mech could be recovered easier than another vehicle if disabled.
those insurgents were mainly caught safeguard because they revealed their position earlier infantry usually can spot an armored vehicle way before it can spot the infantry unless off-course we are talking about total asymmetrical warfare modern armies had to adopt new tactics to deal with insurgencies, and the tanks arnt the main mean for that, but they act as support and yet, i saw many times how insurgents can land a hit on a tank, offcourse, it all comes down if they have low tech or high tech ATM, if said hit can destroy the tank or not i agree with the rest of your post
Bro, a mech is not easier to recover. Recovery often relies on assistance from the wheels of the vehicle or trailor being recovered or heavy industrial machine. To solve this in a practical fashion youd neednto air lify them, have crews that can rappel down and hook up to anchor points on the mechs chassis quickly, and, be wenched back to the aircraft afterwards,ans, pray tell that all went smoothly, as unlikely as that is, then youd have recovery, and even if that went smoothly itd be costly. Youd need specialized recovery vehicles like in battletech to effectively recover a mech on the ground, which in of itself has high r&d costs, and then thats if they dont get destroyed. Mechs would be an expensive project
Considering drone technology, we could just make them Mecha drones, that can move faster and be heavily armored.. I mean, it's something that would take a lot of work, but I believe the traversal capabilities combined with the possibility of using whatever it needed to be outfitted with.. would make it a very capable platform.
It was painfully obvious that the makers of the film had no clue about modern armored combat and merely served the MBTs up as fodder for the mechs to show how wonderful they were.
The point is, whatever technological hurdle you may think of that makes Mechs impractical has been overcome, and this is the end product. Jesus fucking christ the amount if bitching here is phenomenal.
People in the comments complaining about the mechs winning in such terrain are understandable because this clip has no context, unlike if you watched the series. the "mechs" here aren't normal armored bipeds but are designed using the genetic and biomechanical structural base of ancient god armors called kugai. This isn't mechs vs. tanks per se, this is normal science vs. science + sorcery.
And even with that context the scene is atrocious. Those mechs aren't ACTING like science + sorcery. They're acting like slow-moving armored machines against modern tanks as depicted by someone who doesn't have the first clue of how modern tanks work. They tried to make the mechs look powerful by making the tanks bumbling, incompetent, and useless. Rather than by making the mechs powerful. Just about the only part that tracked with, "Hey these mechs are hyper-special / powerful." was when their missiles corrected by pulling 180s in a missile's length to hit the targets they'd just flew by in the rear.
***** The main problem, if you ask me, with mechs are that they move unrealistically. Code geass did it well with the basic military mechs they used (not so much with Suzaku). Erm... of course... Minovsky Particles/ Mecha power can probably do anything.
+殺手, 阿Ching. I dont know how Auto cannons pen 100mm of mercian steeel and how us did’t use arties or air strike, this is just a ‘HEIIIII FATASE EEEE’ unrealstic fuckinh anime. No worth of watching
Thats because they did more research and effort into the tanks apart from a few silly things you get the impression that they care about making every tank type unique to their real life counter parts
@@elliotyourarobot you say this yet a porsche tiger reaches speeds of 70mph after being fitted with a fucking turbo charger, good thing the response to this occurring is by having the engine combust into a giant explosion
+cr4yv3n In that case, it would be all about whether or not the tanks could fire at their maximum ranges or not. If so, the mechs simply wouldn't stand a chance, but as soon as the mechs get into a range where they can use being a mech to their advantage, or if the mechs get to the tank's flanks/rear (E.G. getting on top of a tank, being able to jump over their maximum gun elevation angles, etc.) the tanks are screwed.
***** Forgot to include the secondary armament. yeah, the tanks do stand a significantly better chance with HMGs, particularly if they can be manned from the commander's hatch.
Wishful thinking. Mechs would be incredibly slow by comparison, lightly armored, and lightly armed. The tanks would have slaughtered them if not for anime-physics.
Everysingle negative comment you are about to read about how stupidly this turned out is true. The creators made the tanks and their crews look like absolute mindless idiots. If done properly,the tanks would've won with minimal loses.
+Naresh Singh Yep, they panicked and broke formation. so the TA-s were able to engage them az close range. You can expect that shit from peacetime military, who can not handle real pressure, and only fought while possessing strategic advantage. Also do not underestimate, the difficulty of fighting against a new type of enemy.
+tyaty The fact is not they are a peacetime military,the fact is no trained force would use stupid tactics like that and there is no way in hells' way they would miss at that close range, which means the creators of this series are at fault for making that military force so easy to take out for no real goddam reason.
+MR.Chickennuget 360 That it is. They didn't give the ones here a single reason to be better then a force of armoured vehicle other then the stupidity of said force,all of which only exists because the creators made them like that.
Naresh Singh mechs are just dumb anyway, they would not be faster than any wheeled or tracked vehicle, they would not be more agile, nor would they be as well armored. the whole reason for having tacks on a tank is to distribute weight
4:26 Ridiculous how the thing holds back a tank. Considering a tank would have infinitely more traction, especially in sand. Whats with the tanks missing every shot as well? Are they all aimed manually like in 1940 ww2 or something HAHAAHA!
+Xsithos Not to mention. more mass over a surface area. Those silly mechs only have a few inches of foot on the ground. They would have been pushed INTO the sand and be buried and immobilized.
Those mechs are literally mary sues. I mean, Jesus, why couldn't those tank computers target heat signatures right in front of them? I am legit upset that the creators gave the mechs the upper hand. Come on guys, if you're going to make a realistic movie, make it realistic.
If you are going to make a show modelling ACTUAL tanks, try to put some realism into it, otherwise you'll have military enthusiasts breathing down your back.
Hull down is the technique where the tank uses the reverse of the slope of inclination, or any obstacle/any object high enough to cover the hull to ensure that only their turret is visible to whatever they are firing at. The cold war era western tanks were specifically designed to excel in them (hence why they had massive armor on turret but minimal on hull) and why the west german had extra hull down locations built along the fulda gap and other defensive lines.
Those are not tanks, those are Bradley IFV. Infantry Fighting Vehicles. They are not tanks, they don't carry the same armor as a tank, they don't carry the same fire power as a tank. Don't confuse what would be a glorified armed APC with a tank. They are not the same thing.
Actually, autocannon would make a more effective weapon versus lightly armored, fast moving and mobile targets than a large bore cannon that only fires one round at a time. You also have to remember that these are magic mecha.
Blitzvogel Mobius Is it just me or do autocannons seem to be more common weapon on modern vehicles these days? Sure you still have tanks, but they don't seem as common any more. And most long range bombardment is being done with mobile artillery or missiles now. Which Bradley's do carry 2 wire guided AT missiles don't they?
I really hate it when Mecha are portrayed as indestructible super-weapons. I mean, super-weapon I'm OK with. The indestructible part is what I have a problem with. Realistic or not, there has to be some uncertainty as to what's going to happen in any scene in a story, action and violent scenes in particular. The mechs can probably just go home and not even need daily maintenance after this fight. Nobody important is in any real danger. I mean, if this is the first scene in the first episode or something to establish how powerful the--what are they called-- TA's are, then that I could forgive a _little_ bit. After all, you need to establish how much of a threat the enemy is. That said, mecha anime doesn't have a good track record with this sorta stuff, and I suspect that the rest of the show will be the same story: Tanks, APC, and IFV pilots just sit in awe and panic as mecha rip them apart over and over. And they are legitimately surprised _every time it happens_. Someone do tell me if it does change in later episodes.
+Cielo Pachirisu That's applied to almost every mecha anime. And there is physic breaker too, likes flying supersonic in humanoid form with large wings (practically huge air brake) against the sound barrier.
+Cielo Pachirisu Agreed. I started watching this and got hopes up for a bit of realism/balance in the battle when the commander started giving out legit strategic orders.
Your friendly neighborhood ex Abrams driver, here....I like this clip...I dunno even what it from, but, there's a lot of spot on things going on in this battle. The independent wheel movement, at the start, when they are braking...it is all really tight. My favorite line was "Smoke"...or, "Count Up"...nice bit.
The simplest terrain that can be used to hull down is the reverse slope of a hill at least as tall as the tank's hull or more, the tank essentially climbs one side of the hill until it's turret crest the hill (if the hill is shorter than the tank then it simply move next to it) and thus gives it line of sight on the other side of the hill and fire from that position, if the enemy returns fire they can only see the turret and hitting the hull would require the shell to go through the hill first.
Part of the problem with this video is an artifact of the animation itself: they clearly aren't up to animating the balls-to-the-wall charge the tanks should've executed, so instead they had the tank brigade boss be an idiot and order his units to sit in place like good little sitting ducks. Also, the video points up a fundamental flaw in the idea of battle mecha: only if the mecha were somehow far faster, tougher, nimbler, and better armed than the tanks would they be of any use, let alone as dominant as they are in this video.
Tank crews I knew would rather face a subordination charge than sit and take it like this, most likely would have just said the radio broke as soon they realize command were glue sniffers had the closet cos and nco take over local command and order the tanks to jump that mech like a pack of amphetamine soaked circus monkeys. How command like this didn’t get fragged is beyond me.
A tank turret can't turn that fast, so these mechs of course destroyed them and also due to them not knowing anything about these mechs or every seeing one they were fucked from the start
Lets just say that the mechs were moving much faster, and could move faster than any of the AFV's presented in the video. Try fighting those in something a mech can make scrap of in seconds. It's all a fantasy, so just gotta roll with it.
anyone thinking a tank can obliterate a Mech is welcome to try and Best me in Mechwarrior liveing legends.... and no the mechs arnt over powered its just real world phisics
Why is the g-forces never mentoned in thees types of anime you can be fast as long as the pilot inside doesn't turn into wet splosh (here it wasn't as obvious) also it seems that the mechs are built with future tehnolagy investing billions while the tanks built during the middle of the cold war for a cupple milions not billions.
Quick Analysis, there are 8 columns with approx. 6 rows making approx. 48 armored vehicles. Judging from the POV of the Mecha and from the top cam shots, I say the first two rows are MBT's, the third, fourth and fifth row are IFV's and the last are MBT's. Firstly, this is an anime so not much accurateness are necessary for a good story. With that being said, after some research off of the characteristics of those MBT's, primarily the body type, I propose these 24 MBT's are Leopard 1A4's. Out of the 24 IFV's, I propose that 16 of them are M2A2 Bradley's and 8 were M3 Bradley's; and I came up with the M3 Bradley's based upon the fact that a tight defensive formation was set up (from what appears to be the center -or possibly center right- of the battle zone) yet certain IFV's directly supported the MBT's in combat, leading me to belive that they held no infantry. My issue with this is that the reaction time of the M2's and the M3's severely disappoint IF one considers a serious standpoint. The turrets have a quick reaction time to gunner controls and fire control has a high accuracy, especially within 500 meters. Secondly, The assumed Leopard 1's have a decent turret traverse speed for countering Soviet T-62's; and of course that would be sufficient enough to inflict, at minimum, a twenty percent casualty rate onto the enemy's numbers due to the 105mm rifled cannon and the HE rounds of the IFV's; also including the quick response time of the chain of command - a trained group of soldiers and an experienced colonel.
@@sammer0012 I checked it out and yeah. The M8 Light Tank is significantly more similar than my proposed Leopard 1A4. Good call on the recognizing the soft recoil gun of a light tank!
+Not Billy Mays Yup. I mean, if they said it was like some really advanced exosuit, or that you could move them with your mind (technology) It would make sense but here, it's just dumb
+SpyMonkey3D even a "really advanced exosuit" would just give whatever infantryman wearing it an advantage and let them carry more gear, ammo, and weapons farther. It wouldn't magically make them able to just walk all over tanks.
+Manuelomar2001 Well, literally walk over them as in you land on top and do a dance? Sure, but you're gonna get shot. In urban environments I'd expect them to EAT tanks up. But in this case, in relatively open terrain the tanks are still kings of the battlefield.
+Rogue Vector You know what also eats up tanks in urban environments? Infantry with AT. Do you know what would eat up Mechs as well in an urban environment? Infantry with AT. Do you know what doesn't require a nuclear fusion powerplant? Infantry with AT.
+Infinite Zero Crazy how many people underestimate infantry with at these days, some of the shoulder fired missiles we have nowadays like the javelin are really powerful.
war history teached us that advanced tanks where destroyed by more old tech, mines, speed and manouvers, and of course good strategy and by numbers too, having a bigger gun doesnt win the war by itself, if others use it better than you. you will lose
At least in Gundam (the first one), conventional warfare was still useful and Mobile Suits weren't the only answer to winning a war. Hell, the federation, prior to a few retcons, won Odessa (think D-day) by mostly tanks, jets and heavy artillery with limited assistance from any MS battalions (actually only 3 in the first series). I think these mechs need to be shown to be a great tool for warfare without being the final answer to everything.
BTW thanks for having this discussion with me. I'm working on a science fiction project of my own, and I've been debating on whether or not to include mechs in the setting.
I love mecha but realisticly id see them being only effective if they where highly mobile with as shit ton of counter measures or it would be a waist of money and man power for a military. Make them to big and it would be a field day for ground troops with shoulder mounted launchers. With how most modern tanks target like the Abrams I'd see that being a issue too.
Agreed. I do think they could have very good capabilities in cities and very dense areas like thick forests, but they would be obliterated in open fields by cheaper tanks. However in cities the ability to lean around buildings or expose only their gun is huge. Regarding size I think it would make sense to be no bigger than 20 ft. If they used muscle-like fibers to move it could help give them mobility and prevent being disabled
What was wrong here: [] modern atgm attacking tank front more or less useless. must strike sides or be large missile such as AGM Hellfire. [] ifv with antitank missile and autocannon chooses to shoot high explosive weapons at the enemy. [] why can tank not hit enemy? [] where air support [] why tank not go fast?
Man portable Javelin or RPG-29 can defeat any modern armor even when upgraded with ERA. We had to take precautions when using the Abrams in Iraq in 2007 because insurgents had gotten hold of the RPG-29 which was 20 year old soviet era tech by then.
@@enriqued8401 RPG-29 very powerful weapon, sure. But piercing power less than protection of front. Composite battlearmor of front stays safe, real threat ambush attack sides/rear. Javelin in same boat, 6 cone diameter not much. Hellfire have more than 1000mm penetration...
Ah yes, Psychic Dancing Kabukimen, the natural predator of heavy armor. A great anime that tries very hard to undo a lot of the bad conventions for Japanese mecha, and then the Kabuki weirdness happens.
first the tank formation was far too tight. theres no room for maneuvers when you have everything in the middle boxed in, second, with all the complicated limb systems those mechs have they would have nowhere near the durability of the tank.. its just dum
So Mary Sue it was boring. Not a single mech so much as hit even at long range? What's even the point of having that gritty, down to earth aesthetic and theme, then utterly ruining it with magical mechs with mile-thick plot armor in completely and utterly one-sided engagements? Fucking anime. So hard to find decent shows like LoGH.
+Shadow7988 4:54, looks like they took some damage by that armour readout. This is just a tiny fraction of the show and is basically the 'these mechs outclass conventional weapons' section. Given they incorporate Alien Tech and the shows from 1998, I'm inclined to let it slide.
@@yellowbeez93 tanks, smaller profile, can hide in buildings or dark corners, think of it like modern soldiers moving in a city, mechs have many many weak points because of joints and stuff just like tank's biggest weak point is its tracks and transmission, the difference is mechs are slower and have larger weak points, taller profile, you can hit them easier
@@Godsjudgement12 1) And you don't think they can make mechs move faster than tanks? 2) Do you think Tanks can just hide in ANY buildings? 3) If four gundams are moving towards the direction of a single tank, what do you think will happen?
@@yellowbeez93 any advancement in technology to make future mechs faster than modern day tanks can be applied to future tanks to be faster than mechs. i dont know what sort of fantastical improbability youre trying to argue here. gundams or any mechs dont exist in reality because physics simply refuse to allow them to exist in the same way they do in anime. the closest thing we have is that 1:1 scale model in japan, and you can take a ww2 tank fire a shell at one of its limbs, and it would be straight up useless as it topples to the ground unable to move.
@@Godsjudgement12 This is walking and running we're talking here. The technology might be the same but they aren't able to evade as fast as its speed. Especially when you're dealing with a mech that walks and runs and moves similarly like a human being. Yea try firing one when a gundam hides behind a building as a decoy, and another is just waiting to attack you. Lol
The whole point of Gasaraki was that the Japanese SDF (military) built these mechs in secret, so it took everyone, including America, by surprise. Japan took huge risks on human capability and endurance, most of the mech pilots are so hopped up on combat drugs they die without medical assistance immediately after the mission or they go insane. In reality, America would/will build such machines first for actual combat us. They will be more like Mechwarrior, however.
The second thing missing there is that calculation for conversion of the thought command into the track or wheel representation equivalent would be FAR SIMPLER than the equivalent conversion into the leg equivalent. In such scenario where the gait is automatically handled by the computer (to which there would be equivalent for track movement) and the user providing just the rough input, the end result should be the same the great difference however becomes apparent when he needs fine control
1, I remember this was the only part in the cartoon that Mechs vs ordinary mobilized weapons (tank) in a formal battle (forget the Mech vs F22 please), and it was also one of the few times to see Mechs was using in an open field battle. 2, Consider the Mechs here worked out as a bigger ‘human’, with slightly better armour, better fire power and faster movement. But to against tank they need ambush, sand-storm cover, close distant and fire-and-forger missiles, also needs the chance that these tank crews never met Mechs before. 3, Notice here those tanks were XM8 light tank with level I armour, 19 tons with only 80mm / 40 Deg frontal, a bit of joke back in 1990s. So the protection of these tanks and AFVs were no better than the Mechs anyways, they were all one-shoot-kill to each other. 4, The Mechs in the other hands used 4-unit-‘LOSAT’ (really?), which was way over-powered to against light armour target. In fact if those Mechs did carried LOSAT, I’d better use it in distant (2km+) beyond XM8’s 105mm low pressure cannon range rather than closing in. === I still think this Mechs vs tanks in Gasaraki was one of the best Mechs battle seen.
I can see something like a TA finding a niche in a modern military force. They are described as being superior to tanks in urban battlefields due to thier better mobility and small size. The show also gave them realistic limitations, such as being vulnerable to airborne fighters.
There are ways to help mitigate the 2 problem above, one obvious method is to use rigid mounting to hold the weapon on the mech securely, however this basically throws out your idea of being able to utilize various weapon on the go like a human. another method is to reduce the weapon size and scale down to the point where the recoil is mostly minimal and mount them on a gyro stabilized cradle (similar to how TV cameraman has one for the camera), this can help stabilize the gun and the sight
I love how you completely avoided the weight problem to focus on a non existent one. And while we're talking about penetrating power, your mech would have none. AP penetration is generated using a long barrel. Your Mech would need a sniper rifle to achieve penetration similar to a tank. Not that awesome for the close combat you stated a mech would use. Of course they could use HEAT rounds. But then you have an ammo problem as HEAT rounds need to be large calibers. Where does the ammo goes?
That one were the Russians attack that american aircraft carrier? Do you mena because they got close enough to not trigger a big enough response, or because they were unable to sink that thing when they were able to get that close.
ABW941 Have you even watched the movie The Sum of all Fears? Yes, I mean that Carrier Attack scene. The way that no Aegis Destroyers or any escort ships were supporting the Nimitz-class Carrier was just ridiculous along with the absent of SIGINT and AWACS support, and the size of fighter squadrons on that carrier that should have been in the air a while ago. Plus there's simply no way that those TU-22 Backfires would have gotten that close before the US Carrier Group can detect them from hundred miles away. Not to mention, no fighter planes were even in the air even though a US city (Los Angeles) just got NUKED an hour or so earlier in the movie (seriously, it's DEFCON 1 now and until the situation becomes clear). No ESSM fired by the carrier itself, only Phalanx CIWS,... and the single Phalanx gun actually manages to destroy several supersonic sea skimmers during the hilariously short engagement time.
NobleGrunty I would have to rewatch that movie, i cant remember if the carrier had an escort. But yes, as mentioned, they didnt responde in time, those planes wouldnt simply appear out of nowhere. I also dont remember if the attacking aircraft were destroyed so that they were unable to sink the carrier, cause the superstructure was gone, but it would be a stupid move to let the hull get away.
NobleGrunty Not to mention how it's stupid on the Russian part either: the Backfires wouldn't need to get that close. If they know where the carrier is already that precisely (which is indicated by the complete lack of any airborne radar reconnaissance craft flying ahead of the strike) then they could launch the missiles from beyond the range which the US surface vessels could detect them.
I can see mecha outperforming tanks in a few ways though. Current SPAAG's are all twin chaingun turrets strapped to old tank chassis to give us air defence on the go. You could put a mecha somewhere where jets couldn't strike and it wouldn't have difficulty getting out of there when the job was done. Also, maybe as some sort of engineer vehicle, something that can actually pick up and throw IED's, or rip the face off of a building to save men inside.
The only way mecha could make sense in warfare is if they were deliberately designed to fit into already existing roles, they would have to be designed to not just be as good as tanks, but better, and the humanoid shape would probably end up being a secondary concern.
Barney Collington I do not want to start typical youtube discussion... But Polish cavalry were never fighting tanks in ww2... It's German Nazis propaganda... It was based on this battle: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty.
I can see them having practical value as directed energy weapon platforms. If you have one tank with extremely powerful beam weapons, and one with a kinetic weapon, and they both have a low profile the one capable of indirect fire would win most of the time because it wouldn't require direct LOS to hit a target, while the platform with the beam weapons would. The beam weapon platform would need to be able to shift from low and high profiles, or have the ability to "jump" or it would be useless.
I literally cannot believe people in the comments are attacking the logic of mecha suits on a fucking anime show. It's a fun scene that takes more into account during the action than your average anime; and i'm thankful for that.
these mechs , at long range they will be slaughered by tank fire, especially in the flat terrain like that.. and whats with the melee attack by the mechs? going hand to hand with tanks? no sane commander would risk his mechs into close range if thhey can hit the enemy from far away
do not confuse science fiction with reality, no amount of portable power source will be sufficient to power such machine unless it is nuclear power source..
Buntalan Lucu well the real world of today was the fiction world of the past where the current tanks were considered useless machines by some generals without vision, if you can't do it then smarter people than you will make it real, that's how the world works.
Regarding the joints: as I've said before, they could be held together by carbon nanotube "ligaments" which would make them extremely strong. The joint could also be covered in flexible armor much like a armored knight.
Oh dear..I've got mixed feelings about this one. A tank is little more than a big gun with armor and wheels. A simple design but it works, and I have the feeling they'd be faster going straight forward though less maneuverable. Sure, mechs could easily be able to out maneuver tanks, would probably have more varied weapons than just a main cannon and a machine-gun for infantry, but one hit from that cannon and they'd be in very bad shape. On the other hand, based on the dialogue, this was the first time tanks had ever faced mechs. The combination of being caught flat footed against an enemy they didn't think existed and the initial confusion of the ambush probably screwed them over. Maybe I'd have had less annoyance over this if we saw at least one of the tanks land a hit on those guys. As is, I don't know if these mechs are stupidly endurant like Gundams or something more plausible.
in light of what the video showed, the mechs kept moving back and forth and within the tank lines. My guess is that even if they had modern computers like the M1A1, the guns and turret traverse wouldn't be able to keep up with the agility those units showed, as well as find a clear shot in between their own tanks. The fear factor part can be related to the first use of tanks on the battlefield in WWI. The germans were HORRIFIED of the Mark IV (Was that it? Whichever mark it was...), and were confused in how to deal with them. I think if soldiers saw robots shaped like humans moving about, and bigger than the tanks they drive, would be scared. That's just my opinion on the matter, though those mechs do appear more like the super-robot genre like gundam...
Michal Poláček True, but they took these guys on in the open desert. No cover to get behind, no buildings to climb. Once the mechs charged and started using their hand-held weapons, the tanks should have tagged at least one of them. The closest thing to damage any of the mechs sustained was a tank trying to run one of them over and a guy inside opening up with an assault rifle, neither action caused any damage. Regardless of the element of surprise, the tanks should have done 'something' to the mechs under these circumstances.
So fucking disappointing. Here I thought that several mechs were gonna perish against a tank division like that. But NOOOOOO. IT'S ANIME. NEED NOT LOGIC APPLY
+Toby Cure The Japanese never saw tanks as crucial weapons of war, aircraft and naval ships were everything to them. To Westerners, especially in the context of blitz-type warfare we know how powerful they are. Yeah the tanks should have torn them to shreds.
+frellthat Conventional armed forces are conventional because they work. You can't "spin" away from a 120mm HEAT round travelling 5,700 ft/s. You can't penetrate depleted uranium armor without a very, very big gun. Good luck destroying a single tank, let alone an entire division of them.
***** Conventional armed forces are also, by definition, not science fiction. The focus of any science fiction story will always be the UNconventional things in it.
+TheUnit332 Yeah, Japan never really saw any tanks working at their best. The ones they DID see in the Pacific weren't exactly heavies and instead were lighter and probably just additions to a troop of infantry for sake of morale. What with all the terrain, it was mostly infantry vehicles and artillery stationed. "You know, you don't really need to wear camo. You're in the *jungle* for Pete's sake! Instead, wear *plaid* and *stripes.* If you're going to combat... _CLASH!_
lets be honest man those are bradleys and they arent exactly tanks int he definition that the armies of today would use. they are armored fighting vehicles.
BTW thanks for the conversation. I've been working on an SF world building project, and I'm on the fence as to whether or not I should include some kind of tank like mecha.
I agree, I can see them in a fast recon, support role, sort of like a Bradley. I could also see them working as laser and missile platforms with a max height being somewhere between 10 and 15 feet, not 50! lol
speaking from experience here (I play mech warrior Online) and i can say that a small mech like that would get annihilated by a row of bradleys and tanks. just a few well placed shots to the center torso would utterly rip it to shreds, i say this cause i pilot Light mechs as the majority, and most times a heavy or hell even a light mech would take me out if i were too careless, so seeing this is just making me laugh. Plus shouldn't the tanks have Thermal vision?
*The terrain is never taken into consideration..* Have you ever tried sprinting on sand? The bipedal mechs would have a difficult time matching the speed of a tread based vehicle going backwards at full speed. In addition, while a light armored mech may be more maneuverable then a heavily armored tank in tight turns, one shot from a M1 and its game over. The more weapons you put on the mech, the heavier it becomes and it loses its maneuverability. Therefore, a light armored mech is limited to light weapons. It’s debatable if light weapons is even strong enough enough to punch through the armor of a heavily armored tank. In short, I can see a light armored mech dancing around a heavily armored tank, but it wouldn’t be able to one shot kill it. Multiple attacks would be needed, or some sort of disabling attack would be needed to render the tanks none functioning. Such as getting close to the tanks main gun and using the power of the mech to bend the main cannon so it can’t fire without killing its own crew.
+TheGaming Predator Of course, you immediately think American because anyone ignorant is American... And this is an example of a foreigner not knowing the word stereotypes...
The problem is that this mech anime took place in a REALISTIC(ish) fictional setting complete with modern tanks and jets regardless if their fictional or not. Because of that, everyone that had a basic understanding of the flaws of 2-legged mechas expected the mechs to not be mary sues with realistic limitations yet here they are with plotanium armor firing missiles with impossible turning radiuses and some how dodging shots at tank speed, complete with a stupid enemy commander clearly artifically made stupid. If this had taken in a fantasy or futuristic setting where the enemies were aslo mechs they would've just shat on the enemies reverse plot armor and not the mechs themselves.
@@katsuragi9689 what scene, the comment or the video? Edit: Re-read his comment then mine, he said "what were you guys expecting" and I explained why people were expecting the tanks to win and why military experts came and shat on the video. So what point did I missed? You better explain.
@@katsuragi9689 Honestly, I feel like people who like tanks should grow a pair. You rarely see this type of behavior from someone who likes ships (I'm actually unsure if people who like ships exist) or planes. Hell, some of my friends who were in the Air Force stationed in Misawa really enjoyed the shit out of Ace Combat and Macross, two series notorious for it's hilariously unrealistic dogfights. Meanwhile, you have armchair generals here in this comment section getting their knickers in a tit over mechs kicking some armored ass. Oh well, at least the unending tears of seething from tankies provides some top tier quality entertainment for mech fans. I'm forever grateful to Ryosuke Takahashi for making tankies eternally butthurt.
@@dietz127 I doubt tankers will able to grow a pair but I understand them. Like I mentioned before, this took place in a realistic fictional setting where are real life combat vehicles like the M2 Bradley. They have proven battle specs like turret rotation speed and targeting accuracy that should've allowed them to hit those TAs, yet we see them get nerfed and owned hard. The tank is a proven vehicle concept and there are no combat mechs bulit which are already flawed as a concept, which means tanks would steam roll mechs in direct combat. Now I know anime does not have to be grounded in reality. Like I mentioned before, if Gasaraki took place in a futuristic or fantasy setting or they would not have been crapped on as much. The problem? It took place in a REALISTIC setting in every way you look at it, the only future tech is the TAs and their missiles turning at impossible speeds. Therefore in my opinion the Tankers critcism is legit. [Insert directors name] should've gave the TAs realistic limitations and make out tanks and SPAAGs terrifying nightmares. Gasaraki would be already better since there is more tension and it will force the MC to fight smarter, not harder.
Tank platoon are drilled on how to operate as a team together (US tank platoon has 1 platoon leader tank and 1 platoon sergeant tank, and 2 platoon members tank in a single tank platoon, warsaw pact have different arrangement iirc), each covering the others, and how to pin, then flank the enemy when encountering opposition, etc. Backscratching, and other techniques the tank doctrine comes up with are basically designed to be operated on a tank platoon scale or at least 2 tank (a fire team).
Also, since they are highly conductive, they will probably be able to integrate this stuff into the currently experimental electroreactive armor, which uses thousands of volts of electricity to vaporize a shaped charge warhead.
I should also note that high ground pressure would mean you'd either have to make them lighter, or multi-legged(ahh, the technical nightmare of co-coordinating THAT, when we consider the trouble of just 2 legs), which both increases the vulnerability of such a vehicle(either in maneuverability, equipment load out, or armor protection, your choice). In the video, there's that walker stopping the APC, in reality, even if there was enough power for it to do so, it would've more likely dug itself in
MatiasFPM of course in the future the robots will be over the tanks to protect them and destroy anybody dangerously near to the tanks taking advantage of the blind spots to place plastic explosives. Israel is begining to research in this now.
If we have the technology to make these robots, we could have the tech to make far better tanks. A tank nowadays can hit a target which moves at 90 km h 3 km away. these futuristic robots have no chance to approach a modern tank, then imagine a futuristic tank...
Rolletroll The mechs in the video can easily get destroyed by a modern tank, but against mechs that are mare with mobility in mind, modern tanks won't a chance against mechs like the Scopedog from Votoms or the Knightmare Frame from Code Geass. Both show that tanks cannot handle a mech moving at high speed.
What where these mechs fighting? WW2 Tanks? Modern battle tanks and IFV are noting like this cartoon. Modern armor is advance and extremely mobile that a humanoid size armor unit would be at such a huge disadvantage for being a massive target vs the compact package of tank with advance targeting systems.
The only decent((and I do consider it to be a rather good one))reason I can come up with for anime mecha that zip around at the speed of blur would be that humanoid suits are/would be easier for pilots to control. It's still an excuse though, but it serves as a good handwave for many of the logical issues for the "high-tier" mechs from gundam, code gease, and the others. ((Also rule of cool))
+capsy dash Indeed, however in real situations, if a tank able to move as fast as mech, why would you build mech anyway? I'm assuming that one mech costs more to build than a tank. And if both have the same offensive capabilities, then the argument is even against having a mech. Not to mention, big size = big target - unless those mechs can zip around battlefield like Goku :)) One thing that supports building a mech is if the battle happens on random and different planetary conditions, as equipping a tank to make it able to operate on that planet is as the same as building a mech by default.
If you base both mech and tank on the same level of technology and material sience, the tank will allways win out. Cheaper to produce by far (due to way less complicated systems. If you want to armor a mech (just on the front) the same you do modern main battle tanks, you get something that would be huge (= shoot me now target), slow (gets outmanouvered by everything) and propably less heavy armed/precise (a big canon needs a lot of compensation on it´s mount to be a good mobile weapon). With all those points against mechs, they are just a nive fantasy idea but (unless someone comes up with some new micro reactor, new materials and all) never superior to a main battle tank build on the same technology base.
+AquilaSchwarz Technically a "Tank" is defined as " a heavy armored fighting vehicle carrying guns and moving on a continuous articulated metal track." so it's not a completely inaccurate description...
+Marcus ThreeZeroFive Only by laymen. In the context of technical discourse, "tank" has a very specific meaning. By your definition, anything from a Paladin SPG to a Bradley to an Abrams are all considered "tanks" despite wildly different roles, designs, and capabilities.
Safton This is Truth, and as I spent the majority of my active military career on a Bradley, I would agree. if we really wanted we could argue that they are not M3's a all. the side skirts are wrong, the optics cover is not segmented the barrel shroud is too long etc. but since this show was most likely created by laymen for an audience of laymen, I'm good with just calling anything with tracks and armor a tank :P
The second cue there is the Big Dog size and weight, the tech used can be upscaled quite directly but they kept it within comparable size animals along with similar weight. The reason is really simple, if you upscale it significantly to say an armored vehicle weight and size, then the legs in all likelihood will be moot because in areas where the armored vehicles cannot function, then Big Dog will likely fail to follow the troops there as well with such weight (for example mountainous terrain)
