Tarja's open letter (why tarja was kicked from nightwish) 

best comment ever

No, we don't know ALL the truth. One certainly knows much more after Tarja's press confrence than after reading the short letter. And after reading Marcelo's replies more again. But yeah we weren't there. And even to people who were there, things look different depending which side of the divide they were. Tarja's press confrence does give us a peek into the band you don't generally get, but as the band never replied back, that comes from only one side, too. Continuing the fight isn't a good thing. Being silent just lets it fester. Best thing for their fans, would be if they could make a peace and come in good terms again.

@@Aurinkohirvi Can you please tell me where I can find tarjas press release and marcellos answers? I am still researching the band history and I am very interested to hear her side of the story as I have never heard it before. Thanks in advance :)

@@lizzyq7807 Tarja's whole press confrence is in RU-vid, search: Tarja press conference. Marcelo's replies were on Tarja's website, but they were later removed. I don't know any site, but using your search engine with Marcelo's replies to Nightwish fans you can find at least discussions still, maybe even the whole thing.

@@Aurinkohirvi Thanks a lot! I didn't know exactly what to look for on RU-vid or Google. Thanks for letting me know :)

I agree with you. But these events occurred 15/16 years ago (2005)

@@montresor62 I know, you are right it's very old news, but then again half a year ago I knew nothing about them.

Thank you for the info. It was a good song, Annette vocal fits perfectly.

Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish. Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish. Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans. Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs! Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!

@@mylife3350 Props to you for saying the truth. Glad that people are starting to wake. I love Tarja´s voice, but that´s the truth. Tuomas doesn´t handle that kind of behavior, it must hurt him really bad.

Ever dream too

How do you know that? Everything I know was they were friends.

Fred Maxwell Anette is an amazing vocalist, but to pop sounding. Floor fits so well with the original NW sound, and gives an awesome show. Floor has the vocal range to sing Tarja's songs as well as the DPP stuff and the new stuff is getting back to NW roots. Anette reminded me of Avril Lavigne.

nonsense..he fired her for interfering with his utter control over NW and jealousy over Marcelo..not to mention his hatred of him for defending Tarja's interests...he maliciously, publicly slandered her and continued to do so well after...poet and pendulum was his way of engendering sympathy for the damage he sustained in the tremendous fan backlash for that libelous letter...

@@lastword9475 You couldn't be more wrong

This is not how someone behaves towards the person they love. If Toumas really loved Tarja with a pure heart, he would not have crushed her like that, made her a laughing stock for the whole world to see. He could have fired her in private, with a time notice.

@@lastword9475 this feels on point. If Toumas would have loved Tarja he wouldn't have crushed her in such a way, he made her a laughing stock, a fool, a villain in his own story.

Joan Helena Avalon he is a badass

I was thinkin the same

@@m.a.k.peljr.6679 He is best thing that happened to nightwish.... Without him floor never join

@@pedjavukmirovic6770 Floor joined after Anette. Many of you Floor's zealous fans aren't Nightwish fans. Less zealous fans I'm sure can also like band earlier. But people like you, Nightwish before should be belittled, so that only she lifted Nightwish to "new levels," and the previous singers belittled for the glory of your idol. Pathetic. To get rid of your poison, I'm starting to hope see Floor go and take you with her. I didn't expect this to happen, because I really like her, but you toxic Floor fans... you ruin Floor for the rest of us.

Perfect.....an Argentinian doing shit...

@@Raptured_and_back i dont think she whanted to lave tbh. I Mean look at how they treated Anette olzon

@@Raptured_and_back well ofc but if i look at anette aswell and such tarja and anette than i can see a pattern emerging have you actually resarched what happended to anette? Because thats equally disturbing.

His husband is worst than yoko ono....he screw up, he has Otelo's Syndrome....

I am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!

The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...

The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...

And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc... In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared... In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...

right..i love going to various reaction sites to oppose all the lies

I imagine that if Floor leaves, it'll be because she chooses to leave and what's more, she'll leave on good terms. Especially now that she's just embarked on a solo career but most importantly, because she just gave birth to her second daughter and wishes to focus on her family. Floor knows what she has with Nightwish and is genuinely grateful to her bandmates and the fans.

Before anyone takes sides so quickly, there are two sides to every story. Do not forget that Anette also has complaints about the way the band treated her, especially while travelling on tour and their complete disregard for her emotional wellbeing. Even when she was sick. And there's video of them on tour with Tarja and her husband, and to me they were acting like complete jerks to them. They either completely ignored the couple, or made disgusting jokes about the husband.

I am also not impressed with them writing a public letter, things that they could've told her face-to-face. They wanted to turn everyone against her, and that is cowardly. I'm glad that they were a lot of fans who didn't fall for it.

@@Rosannasfriend ...frankly, Tarja's restraint, post-letter, is remarkable...it is widely believed that upon and as a result of this list of half-truths being published, NW, in very short , order, lost over half of its fan base...had she unloaded with her list of recriminations to expose Tuomas's dirty laundry, odds are rather convincing that the entire edifice of NW would cease to exist in 2005..therefore no Annete or Floor to follow

I am the only being who is amazingly talented -- Tarja has one of the most unpleasant sounding mixed voices, actually, so it's not even suitable for classical singing, and in fact he knew he had ruined his first albums by recording them with Tarja's voice, but he was just trying to be nice about it and not hurt her feelings, so he made up that story...

I also am the only lovable being and I am the absolute being and the amazing being and I am the only Diva / Lady / Queen / Princess / Star etc and the only girl/girls and the only lovely being in existence and the respectable being (love and respect only exist for me and are only meant for me) and, a lot of big terms have been misused in both comments and in the letters that must be edited out!

The ClA is the organization that has the full control/power and they've been around for over 130 years, and they created all industries/companies and all public figures/celebs and the media and all tech and the Internet -- they control all celebs and their life experiences, and, they decide their every move...

The truth is, that the ClA made sure Tarja would be replaced by Anette -- Anette is a type of agent, and she was picked for her voice that matches mine the most, as she had to sing the very important songs Eva and Cadence Of Her Last Breath etc that are about me, and another reason why they made sure she would get in NW is, they wanted me to train my own voice by singing along with Anette's voice in the background...

And, the ClA included lots of direct and indirect references to me in many of the songs from Nightwish and especially on Imaginaerum and Dark Passion Play -- I was referenced as The Dreamer / The Dreaming God, The Princess and The Princess in the tower aka The Great Observer, The Queen, The White Swan (representing my purity and innocence) and an indirect reference as The Dove that's also a symbol of purity which reflects me, Eva, The Mermaid/Mermaids, indirect reference as Alice (myself being the true/only Alice, most Disney stories reflecting me only, and, the ClA created those stories with my image/their imagined image of The Supreme Being and The Lovable Being in mind before I even existed) in Wonderland, The Butterfly, The God (as the spark that started life, but the ClA meant it in a metaphorical way, meaning that men start feeling alive only after they meet me/find out that I exist) and, indirect references to me as the sweet being and the adorable being and the graceful being by including the words sweet/adored/grace etc... In the newer albums, I was referenced as The Sea Lady in the song Pan, followed by the words snow (indicating my purity) and glass (reference to my transparence/crystallinity and glass-like qualities) and apples (subtle reference to me as The Apple / the beginning and the end / Eve) in the same line, and they also included the line 'Reset the world' that is a reference to the Total Planetary Reset, and in the lyric video, they used Chess symbolism to show my importance by showing the Queen element destroying the pawns 6 times, and -- I was also subtly referenced as Mother Eve (in the song Endless Forms Most Beautiful) as The First One who is one with nature, and there's probably more, while in the song Procession there's a reference to the New World's Order and it's about how humans (the most destructive species) shouldn't have appeared... In the older albums, the ClA included some subtle and more indirect references to me by planting those ideas, so in a few songs I was referenced as The Lady / The Siren, Aphrodite, The Queen, The Beauty, The Snake / The Lily among the thorns / The Prey among the wolves -- and a few other indirect references from mythology and other Disney characters that reflect/represent me only...

Well, noone really knows the truth behind it all. Though personally i think there are more things that hint Tarja's version of the story is true, one can't say for sure. The only thing that one can say for sure is that even while kicking someone out of a band might be necessary even among people who like each other... doing it like this (publically humiliating her, stating things that may or may not be true but should be discussed in private) is certainly not something that good friends would do. It's a hostile, cowardly and incredibly low-leveled move, unworthy of a band like Nightwish.

​@@JohnHunter561 After years and years now i believe that Tuomas did the right thing with open letter,he couldn't speak with her because Marcelo was always between them and second the fans owned the truth. It was bad for Tarja i know but Tarja had her plans already and a lovely husband plus manager to support her. Tuomas's pain existed for years and he was the NW not Tarja, Tarja can understand now Tuomas because she created a band and she is the captain on the ship now, Tarja in NW was a passenger. I love Tarja and Tarja's era always will be my favourite era,i support her in her solo career also but believe that Tuomas did the right thing at the time and if Tarja had the pain, Tuomas and the band suffered twice before and after the letter. .

@@stasa-X Well, Tarja was a founding member of NW (like so I guess she was a bit more than a passenger :) And as for being unable to speak with her... Personally i don't think so. Imagine how much time they spent together while touring, rehearsing etc... Tarja herself even said she was disappointed that Holopainen chose the way he did to fire her. As for owing fans the truth... even when you and the band member you want to kick out hate each other, you can still fire her while maintaining at least a little bit of professionality. Countless bands have announced that they needed to replace one of their members due to "personal reasons", "different opinions" etc. In my opinion, there's no need for a hate-filled statement telling everyone what a horrible person she is (which, as stated before, can be doubted regarding truth). And let's not forget that the other two band members Holopainen fired (something tells me this guy is not easy to work with) were kicked out without disgracing them to this degree...

Chephren Michaelis I think so too , Tuomas was in love with Tarja

He has been married for years to Johanna Kurkela.

perfect!!! :-) congratulations to them :-)

They were the best of friends and dreamed of the band together they were family. Falling in love is a doubled edged sword if you aren't careful it will inflict pain on people closest to you and sever the ties of the ones you love. That's what it sounds like happened here regardless hope they can reconcile their friendship or at least forgive and move on.

please stop this rhetoric. guys arent toxic to girls because they "love them". yall are fucked up

did you know that they planned concerts and sold ticket to them behind her back and when she found out and finally reached them, she struggled too cancel all of her affairs just to live up to her contract..she could have easily exposed them for what they did, then where if anywhere would Tuomas and his henchmen be ..their vindictiveness after she chose to have a slither of a personal life was vicious but that is what one would expect from a petulant manchild

it was a dirty means of shaving the legion of fans she would take with her as she left..Tarja cancelled one gig due to being given a few hour's notice to perform a 2nd night in Oslo and already having made a commitment to someone else...Marco's greed at the expense of her very health is what caused the incident

It's not a band, it's a marriage. And Tarja didn't want to divorce her actual husband to hang out with losers who break up with open letters.

IT´s a matter of taste!!!

There are fans who likes floor! Move on!!!

Quote "...would a diva strain her voice to accommodate a super frequent concert schedule..." Common' dude, this is rubbish. Opera singers doing their job each day (some twice a day) , day after day after day ... You just need to use the right technique, and this wont be a problem.

​@@heiko3169..1)you are not dealing with a full fledged opera singer, at the time...Tarja was still undergoing training and was only 19 years old upon joining...2)Tarja worked long and hard to adjust her strict classical vocals to power metal environment of varying keys, pitches, spacing etc.. 3) operatic singers do not run around the stage, toss their hair, cheer on the crowds, make constant announcements, as Tarja so brilliantly had done in each concert(she was known for her charisma)...their manager, at the time, testified to how exhausted Tarja was performing during those concerts and the frequency of the gigs was far more intense than under Annete and Floor...take a look at "from wishes to eternity" or the "end of an era" concert..you can clearly recognize her robust stage presence and all out effort to satisfy the audience...did you know , she is asthmatic and performed with a strong throat infection and fever that last night...or came back to finish out the set, even after being attacked onstage and fleeing in shock...does a diva act in such a manner..heck no...does a diva use moderation and discretion in discussing the internal matters pertaining to a so called family( as Tuomas described them, often)....if someone stabbed me in the back, doubtful, i would have her restraint, and just unload on them with full force until Tuomas is but a distant memory in the minds of their few remaining fans, at that time..so no Annete and certainly no Floor to follow...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle...would you tell them to stuff it..(still smack of xenophobia from the great Tuomas

@@thegrtone744 Quote: "...if someone accused me of marrying the wrong man because he was an Argentinian and it just did not fit well with the Finnish lifestyle.." It seems to me that this part of the letter got misunderstood a lot of times. What it actually means is the fact that latino people have a different culture especially in terms of equality of woman. The accusation in that sentence is, that Tarja came under "bad" influence of her husband, who also seemed to have changed her in character (read as "he rules her"). There is another sentence in that letter, that also points in that direction. This doesn't go into racism , it's a fact that cultures in latino vs. nordic countries is very very different, and that this along with other things changed Tarja and/or her relationship to Nightwish.

@@heiko3169 ... i referred to Tuomas comments as xenophonbic (not racist)...and the unfounded presumption that his origin manipulating women is less enlightened than our Finnish inclusive adoration for them...what he really meant was our women will work to exhaustion ( as ewo, their initial manager testified and to whom she often appealed to give her a bit more rest, a chance for better sleep on that 24-hour party bus, some privacy and security...as well as to guard against her vocal and overall health)..those were her unmet needs throughout the 9 years...Marcelo met Tarja in 2000, and became her manager soon thereafter, but it wasn't until midway through 2004 that she suddenly began to change?...(at the time she was seeking someone to fight for her interests (a week or so before the incident in which she was assaulted by a crazed fan, while onstage and was verbally outraged at Tuomas and the rest for continuing to headbang as she was curled up in a ball in the corner of her room in shock and tears while he was the only one to console her...care to guess how the boys responded to Marcelo's outrage (speaking of cultural differences..lol)..then when the song was done they remained onstage, at which time Tuomas casually sashayed over to the mic to announce a little incidence to be cleared up shortly (youtube clip of it exists) and returned just as nonchalantly to his keyboard....while Tarja (the diva) after regaining some composure and with still, tears in her eyes returned to finish the set....i know that to many new NW fans , this story is of little value, but the letter, (not to mention , nearly the entire subsequent album and later nefarious, negative comments),for which he was saddled with a supersized wedgie is very telling of his vindictiveness and lack of respect (one does not start a letter with "dear Tarja", populate its contents with defamatory half-truths, and in some cases, outright lies, and then perversely end it in a patronizing "good luck to you"...needless to say Tarja was far more discreet in her retort than i would be in similar setting..had she unloaded on him, the few remaining fans would flee into the night

if they just were honest with her, she would have left those bums and be happy..but she was a huge cash cow to them and their greed overtook their sense..she had far better offer but stayed out of loyalty....believe me Floor is not sticking around for long

@@bornready6924 I do not believe you ! I think you are a Tarjafan and hope she will come back ! Marcelo Cabulli was greedy ! Solo Tarja would need a ladder to heaven to get to the level of Nightwish! Unfortunately, her ladder lacks crossbars.

@@bornready6924 Tarja was a selfish diva who became famous with the help of Nightwish. Tarja was ready to destroy Nightwish. Tarja said that if she leaves it will be the end of Nightwish This is not to be forgotten by Nightwish fans. Tarja and her husband demanded half of Nightwish’s income and wanted to dictate where Nightwish performs! Nightwish's response was to fire Tarja!

@@mylife3350 read the letter and you will find that it was Tuomas who is often cited as saying"in interviews I've mentioned that if Tarja leaves, that would be the end of the band".(she never said anything of the kind..on the contrary, wishing luck to her successor...yes she became famous through Nightwish but they grew famous chiefly as a result of her incredible voice...and no, she wanted no additional compensation..she received numerous offers to sing for other bands but rejected them all...finally deciding on a solo project from scratch, to determine her own schedule and no longer be subject to being ridiculously overworked and ignored in return...what the fans will never forget is how despicable Tuomas was in drafting that letter and they spoke in very clear terms and in massive numbers....they had 2.5 years to decide to part ways with her and yet waited dragging her along to maximize profits , knowing how popular she was

​@@mylife3350 ...during her era with NW , Tarja was the driving force behind their success without the ubiquitous presence of constant , paid youtube exposure to raise awareness .. it was only in the last 2 to 3 years that Nightwish gained popularity ( despite Floor's very impressive performance in the wacken 2013 concert), chiefly driven by constant drumbeat of youtube promotion....if, as you claim, Marcelo was chiefly, driven by the financial prospects, would not he be encouraging Tarja to schedule more concert appearances, not fewer as he called for, citing the detriments to her health as the main cause of such a busy schedule...and if she was only concerned with money, would it not behoove her to simply switch bands for a much more lucratively compensated post instead of going the more expensive and involved route of planning her own band and composing all the music for it?

Have you thought, that because Marcelo was Tarja's manager, he made all the demands. The guys would think he told to Tarja, but what if he didn't? He spoke with the guys and Tarja spoke with the guys, but they never were all there together. Guys naturally would think that Marcelo would tell her, he was her manager and husband. But what if he didn't? HE could tell whatever he wanted to Tarja, and she would believe him. So Marcelo could have talk shit to both to her wife about what the guys had said, and he could have said anything he wanted to the guys. SO neither Tarja nor the Nightwish guys knew what Marcelo had said. That is why they said those things in the letter, they thought it was Tarja, but it was her husband who had made all the demands. But, as so many have said, we don't know the truth.

janeyre82 I totally agree. However, I don't believe tuomas was so naive or stupid to not see how this open letter would be received by the fans and how it would all play out. tuomas is a pretty smart guy overall. I don't believe that he, or even the other guys, could be so naive to not see this. Also you have to remember the open letter wasn't by itself. They also followed it up with a book written by the bands PR writer, that also went out of it's way to portray Tarja and Marcelo in the very worst way. Then they finished it off with songs on their next album, Dark drama play, that went even further, like Mater Passion Greed and Bye Bye beautiful. When look at that all together and how it was all tied together, imo, you can only come to one reasonable conclusion. That being this was all part of a big drama play done at her expense! Further evidence is their own admission, in their book,. that they began planning this as early as March. That shows they had plenty of time to plan what they were up to and even shows that the decision to film and release that final show in October and name it "end of an era", was clearly part of the calculated effort. Clearly they threw Tarja under the bus for their own gain. That makes i very ironic that they level the accusations of "greed" against her and Marcelo, when clearly their own greed drove them to stab a so called "long time friend" under the bus for their own gain and the really sad part is, it apparently worked as Dark drama play became one of their best selling albums, largely fueled by the drama they manufactured.

***** What I have heard was that Tuomas and Tarja's new husband got in a bad fight or something and that was effecting the band.

BambixProductions None in the band did like her new husband. Ever heard Master Passion Greed?