One of these days I will get a conversion cylinder for my Remington. Taylor's & Company is only about 30 miles down the road from me, but I have resisted going to visit them because I would end up with another mortgage on my house before I walked out.
They were called .44 because the bore was measured like front stuffers, from the top of the lands. Later after more guns were breach loaded they realized the bullet is only going from the breach to the muzzle instead of from the muzzle to the breach back to the muzzle. They realized that bullets could be sized up and the bores were measured from the bottoms of the grooves. So a .44 is a .45, .36 is about a .38, and a .31 is a 32.
Hey Mike, you are the person that got me interested in BP revolvers and I bought my first one a few weeks ago. I bought a 1858 Remington and also bought a conversion cylinder for that revolver but I had to buy them from different businesses due to availability. The 1858 Remington conversion is a 6 shot. I received an email from Taylor's today and they apparently have their conversion cylinders on sale for a pretty good price. They're not cheap, as you well know. I want to thank you for getting me interested in BP revolvers, they are fantastic and there is a great selection, I don't know if it will help my bank account though, lol. Thanks again, your videos are excellent and very informative, especially for those of us that are new to BP. Best wishes.
I was going to comment about "WHO or WHY" would hit thumbs down? Another great video. I have simple videos on how to do a reloading process and they get thumbs down. I think there are people who just go around hitting the down thumb on every video, regardless of content.
The boys over @ the high road will enjoy this . please head over and drop a link over there. You and very few others keep this era alive for younger generations to discover and fall in love with. Thanks for all you do Mike. By the way please never stop being unapologetically you my friend! Your definately one of a kind. Much love Asheville, NC
FWIW, they were called ".44"s because the bore was .44 inches [nominal.] The size quoted for the bullets we use now is the distance across the bottom of the grooves [which were generally cut deeper then, so the lead wouldn't strip; once we went to jacketed bullets @ higher velocities, the grooves were cut shallower, since copper, brass or mild steel are tougher than lead.] So, .44 bore plus a .006" groove depth x 2 [we'll skip Enfield or 5R rifling for now] is .440" + .006" + .006" = .452" . This is also related to how we get ".38 Special" being the same bore size as ".357 Magnum..." and the ability to use the former in firearms chambered for the latter...
I just bought the Richards type II conversion by Uberti. Yes, I had to use an FFL, but it is far more historically accurate and holds 6 rounds. Kept the '60 in BP.
I have a 1860 Uberti percussion revolver and a 1860 Richards Uberti conversion in 45 Colt. Both are 6 shot and in my opinion the best of both worlds because there is no need to remove the cylinder until time to clean it. You are correct, hard to beat the lines of the 1860 Army.
I have a Charter Arms 44 special 3" and recently purchased an 1860 3" a five shot cylinder sounds OK and slow lead bullets are good enough for me. A conversion is going to work out good in the short barrel for close to 44spl trajectory.
I seem to remember that in the late nineteenth century caliber was measured land to land, whereas in our time caliber is measured groove to groove, hence our 45 is their 44. I may or may not be right about this, but there you go.
Love these vids Mike, I've been shootin em since the early 70's, but I love your enthusiasm, knowledge & our shared dislike for Evil Roy. Never tried a conversion cylinder, but have considered one for my Uberti carbine.
A couple years ago I bought a Howell 6 shot conversion for my Pietta 1858. I love it. I may someday buy one for the 1860, but as you stated, loading is not as easy as the 1858 as we saw in Pale Rider. Thanks for the video Mike.
@Howard Luken Instead of brasso, use oil and #0000 steel wool. Yeah, its real easy to forget and leave a gun or ammo in leather. Ammo brass will turn green.
Conversions are cool. I had a Richards conversion with a 2 piece hand in 44 Colt that was built by my LGS.... After years of CAS with Vaquero's I'm thinking really hard to get me a pair of 1851's and convert them...
Love my black powder, but rarely have the opportunity to shoot outdoors in the country... a cartridge conversion cylinder at least gives me the opportunity to have some fun with the pistols at nearby indoor ranges occasionally.
I have the Taylor and the Kirst cylinder's and i use 6.1 grains of Unique with the 200 grain Lee bullet.I was apprehensive to go any higher due to pressure concerns but since you said 7.8 of Unique i'll try that.Thumbs up.
I really enjoy the Conversion cylinder for my Pietta 1860 Army. Since it does not suffer from the short arbor issues of the Uberti repros the wedge slides in and out easily.
Nice shootin' Mike! I have this in my 1860 .44 snubbie, my 1858 .44 Remmy sheriff, and my Ruger OA stainless 5 1/2" fixed sight, and just ordered a Kirst w/gate conversion for the snub. Dremel at the ready! Have many other cap and ballers that I kept old school but it's great to have these options.
Yeah still have to remove it to reload the cylinder but it is very fast for the Remington they do have the drop down style cylinders for the open tops on kirstkonverter.com those are cool gonna get one for my 1847 Walker
There actually were similar conversions to the Taylor done historically on Colt revolvers. I’ve seen a Dragoon and a pocket model so converted, but they weren’t factory conversions, they were done by local gunsmiths or even blacksmiths.
I love my conversion - .45 schofield length cases (trimmed .45 colts), some trailboss, and a new front sight...easily one of the most accurate grouping pistols i load for.
Hmmm...that's a great idea...I have a vintage Remington New Model Army to which I fit a Howell's conversion cylinder in 45 Colt. I certainly don't feel the need to fire any full load black powder 45 Colts through it...but some nice little Schofield cases might be perfect. Thanks!
My 1860 Charles Richards conversion is my favorite gun. I had a chance to buy a original one 30 years ago but didn't have enough money so I bought a cimarron.
Probably just as well as the originals are getting too pricey to shoot much and creating ammo for the originals is a bit more of a chore but better now than when I made that same choice. I do have an original Richards Mason 62 Pocket Police in 38short colt rimfire that I don't shoot much because of the pain that reloading for it causes.
@@charlespayne1061 I've had mine for 25yrs, before prices skyrocketed plus mine is what you might call a well used example, rode hard and put away wet. Lol, still shoots ok though.
In the late 80's I read an article that said that the old style of caliber designation comes from England. They used the diameter of the bore prior to the rifling cut. Hence the diameter is .44 at the top of the lands. Not sure how accurate the article was but it seems very plausible.
The old system makes no more sense than the "system" we use now.... .38 Special is .357" .44 Magnum is .429", .380 is .355", .30-30 equals "30 caliber and 30 grains of powder", .30-06 equals "30 caliber Model of 1906", .25-06 equals "25 caliber based on .30-06 case", .250-3000 equals ".25 caliber at 3000 feet per second" 🤪 In short...the name is just a name. Make sure the name on the cartridge matches the name on the barrel...unless , well, the .250 Savage is the same thing as the .250-3000 and the 7mm Express is the same thing as the .280 Remington and the .244 Remington is the same thing as the 6mm Remington and the .38 Colt New Police AND .38-200 are the same thing as the .38 S&W...we can continue if you like. 😁
@@garyK.45ACP roger that! Then add in things like .44-40 can also be .44WCF, 38-40 actually having a .401 bore ect, ect. Let's not even get into the "Dram equivalent" still used with shot shells.. At least those of us that care to learn have plenty of readily available info now compared to pre internet days.
@@scoutdogfsr See what I mean...😁 Thank God for the internet. Us old guys had to rely on Keith, Whelen, Skelton, O'Connor, Askins, Jordan and Cooper. What did they know?
Hey “BEEK MIKE”! Excellent video! But that’s the only kind you make! WHO in or out of their “right minds” would give you a “thumbs down”? Maybe a “Biden Democrat”? They’d give their own mother a thumbs down! Did you have to do any action work to get this conversion cylinder to work properly? Evidentally these C&B revolvers CAN fire smokeless powder OK, within reason!! How much do these conversion cylinders cost (an “arm & leg” or a “bushel & a peck”??!!)? WHO’s “Blymire’s den”? Must have been a local “fish peddler”! Thanks for always being a JOY to watch! Mr.Thickey has “schpoken”!
You seen Kirsts .22 conversion? Supposed to work in Pietta or Uberti! .36 or .44 too ! All in one kit! I'd love to see you try them out and see a proper breakdown on those. And thanks again.
With the five shooters? Four sounds better, with the hammer down on an empty chamber! Present Starline 45 Colt, and 45 Cowboy Spc. use 0.509” rims, while STARLINE 45 S&W Schofield rims mic 0.519”. Mike doesn’t say if Starline’s Schofields will work in these converters. The downfall of these converters is that the C & B replicas are rifled with a slooow round ball twist. So the lighter Schofield bullets are a bit more stable in flight, and their shorter powder columns give more uniform combustion with light smokeless loads. More important to me is that there are no published hot rod “Ruger Only” recipes!
As always Mike, another great video! The Taylors cylinder is fine, but I prefer the Kirst conversion, just for the ease of loading/unloading. I've converted both my '51 and '60. Having the loading port cut out on the frame also makes it easier to cap the nipples on the blackpowder cylinders, especially if one has big "sausage fingers" such as I lol.
Definetly not a home defence weapon but it is cool and unique all at the same time. Didnt know it still needed its back plate though. That wasnt exactly what i hope it didnt need but still pretty cool and still something i might get.
I'm one of those folks who love the look of the pistol. I got me a Uberti and the fit and feel, the machining are perfect. Every action is smooth. Lovely trigger pull, smooth as butter. Excellent piece. I went ahead and purchased 3 cylinders and they all fit right in and work smooth as silk. I always enjoy your vids and they are a great resource. Question for anyone: the wedge retaining screw, can that be done away with?
What Taylor’s & Company is selling looks to be the Howell conversion cylinders. I wish they would just say that. Most of their Colt C&B pistols seem to be Pietta, while the Remingtons seem to be Uberti. You would have to specify which make for the cylinder, as they are not the same. FYI: Howell makes 45LC 6 shot cylinders for the Remingtons.
@@BahlzeronI actually own an original Remington New Model Army built in 1863...and it shoots 451 or 454 round balls. They were measuring from land to land rather than from groove to groove. That change occurred in the late 60's or early 70's when cartridge guns were first being widely produced. Hense the nomenclature of the 45 Colt utilizing a .452 or .454 bullet yet having the same barrel diameter as the earlier Colt Army percussion 44...which used a 454 round ball or conical bullet.
Really enjoy your video's. Just got into the whole black powder firearms probably due to current ammo shortages. Do you have a video or would you do one on how to reload Colt 45 with black powder?
I have to agree, the Colt 1860 is a a better looking pistol than the 1873 SAA. Those Colt New Line revolvers are the best looking Colt revolvers ever made, I'm personally fond of the 1861 Navy, but they're all beautiful.
Good video Mike. My thing that I would make me uninterested in the Taylor's & Co. conversion is that you have to remove the cylinder and back plate, after breaking down the revolver, to reload it. I know that this cylinder would be great for the person who wants to be able to convert back and forth to the original BP cylinder. Just my thoughts. I would rather have a dedicated conversion more.
Very informative.im thinking that either a lighter powder charge, or maybe dropping down to a 200 grain bullet, will lower point of impact.best wishes.
You are great fun and good historical education to watch really , thank you for your videos , What I look forward to seeing from you not knowing really if you care to do them or not 1) We are looking forward to your historical real cartridge conversion episode, 2) Extraction rod implanted versions of historical handguns of that era especially if 5,5” barrel 1851 colt conversion Which I personally would love to see you shooting 3) to know if you sawed off your 1861 Colt Navy 38’s barrel’s end bit to get it to its original size, 🙂 because the original front side for this weapon is very beautiful in fact. And a personal question : to know if new conversions especially for 38 special replicas can fire jacketed / half jacketed rounds or not Thank you 🙏, with all our respect and love
I'm waiting on the delivery of another original cartridge conversion revolver before doing the original conversion video. Have not yet cut the 1861 barrel. You cannot fire jacketed bullets without risking cracking the forcing cone on your cap & ball revolver.
This conversion cylinder would work very well with the Uberti 1860 army I used to have because I didn't need a rubber mallet to loosen the wedge. I could do it with my thumb and fingers
Yup... you should be able to remove the wedge on a colt with finger pressure. Most of the repros are tight. I always dress the wedges on mine with a file so I don't need a mallet to take them apart.
Bore is not 0.452, it is 0.440, at least in the 2 guns I have and have measured with plug gages. Groove diameter is as you have stated, or slight variation from that number. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly look forward to your videos, but accurate information is important for the new people to black powder. BTW, I am NOT one of the down votes. I really enjoy your videos!
Are your two firearms percussion revolvers? Or are yours the single shot side lock pistols. Because the 44 caliber revolvers have a different bore size than the single shot pistols.
Incorrect that no gun company honors a warranty if you use hand loads. They don’t warranty damage caused by the hand loads but if a problem arises not connected to the hand load, it is covered. Of course that is subject to the express terms of the warranty. Speaking from experience
@Doug Pawl Cowboy Action loads are made for the SASS (Single Action Shooters Society)? for their fun shoots. The loads are: Very light for lowest recoil. Around 750-800 fps. Lead bullets only (no jacketd loads allowed) Lubed with a lube to help make smoke.
I have the howell 5 shot stainless steel and stainless steel remington i shoot +p fmj works good but im only comfortable with my stainless when doing it
Most Excellent, as always!! Have the Taylors for my ‘58; now I need to see if Mrs Claus will spring for one for the ‘60!! God Bless! Be Safe!!!!! John in MD
Yes, I made a screwdriver tip for them to keep them tight. Also watch for the firing pins sticking. Make sure they're all flush with back plate before reassembling a loaded cylinder.
Mike, you should use a Babe as click bait, and then not have her in the vid...that'll get you plenty of thumbs down!. Good vid on this subject. I hope you stocked up in ammo and components, as they are gone for the most part.
Chris_Wooden_Eye I know, the ones with the heavy metal intros. I meant that the guys who would click on the bait would be a guarantee of a thumbs down. Mike does the shooting, tech info, and history. I learned about Kroil oil from him, and also got into flintlocks because of him Hopefully, HE doesn't show up in a bikini! LOL
Been playing around with the idea of doing a gated conversion on my navy. These cylinders are cool but i would prefer a loading gate. The only difficult part would be cutting the frame. 😬
Nah...a competent gunsmith should be able to do it for about $50 bucks. But he'd have to cut through the color case hardening. The real problem with the Navy is the bore diameter. It's designed to fire a .375 round ball...but 38 special bullets are .358. so you have to load your own with heeled bullets that are large enough to engage the rifling. That's why most people just go with the 45s. I have a conversion cylinder for my vintage Remington New Army...its clone...and an 1860 Colt clone. But I've never gotten one for my Navy clone for that very reason.
I really wanna know the laws surrounding carry of these revolvers. Both with the black powder cylinder and the conversion. Because by the NFA, the black powders are deemed not a firearm essentially, does that mean anyone of any age can conceal carry them without a license? How about open carry? So many questions I’m not gonna be the first one to find out the answer to, for sure haha.
It really depends on your jurisdiction. Federally C&B revolvers are not firearms, but Federal law does not govern concealed or open carry. State law does, and the state laws vary quite a bit on this subject. In most states C&B revolvers are subject to the same restriction for concealed carry as cartridge guns. The cylinders are simply gun parts...until they are installed on the gun, at which point the C&B gun is a firearm per Federal law.
Super important that anything going back to Taylor’s, must not have a converter cylinder mounted in the revolver. You must have the percussion cylinder mounted, with the converter cyl. In its little square box, along side the revolver, so they ship together! UPS will fire any agent who slips up on this detail and violates Federal laws on shipping real firearms?? These lash ups are only firearms under the law when you put the converter into the revolver.
@@lucky43113 I bet you use Fed Ex ground! Some of us don’t have that option! Here, we do have a UPS ground terminal. Our Fed Ex air didn’t want to ship my ASP 58 Remmie back to Taylor’s for their GS to custom fit a 45 Colt converter into this obsolete brand. It’s half way between Ubertis and Piettas cylinder’s lengths.
Does shooting modern smokeless powder have any detrimental effect on the barrel due to there being no top strap? Are modern replica Colts made of stronger steel or is it similar to an original? Living in the UK makes it harder to get access to firearms due to our ridiculous laws, so I don't have much info readily at hand. Of course, I could always ask a criminal over here who seem to have unlimited access to all sorts of firearms it is just us law-abiding types who can't have them. Love the channel by the way.
If I could only have one, I would probably get the Cimarron American Model, just because originals are so rare, and therefore pricey. There are a lot of Original NewModel No 3's around...though they ain't cheap either...
I recently bought a 1858 Pietta New Army Sheriff model and I'm a total newbie in the world of black powder. Does Taylor's carry the conversion cylinder for this model? Do they also carry the ammunition needed? I really enjoy your videos and I learn from them...thank you!
Yes, I have a Pietta new model Army sheriff model 5.5 in barrel and I also have the Taylors six shot conversion cylinder for it and it shoots 45Colt perfect.
