Good job omitting describing the difference between negative and positive systems so that the home owner understands the difference. I figured it out on my own. Hopefully most others will also. 👍
Vent and trap primary drain always put a float switch in the secondary drain. Best way to do it. Primary clogs up secondary switch will shut down the unit. Simple as that. Never have a flood or drain pan overflowing. Always trap and vent your primary drain though. That vent will allow it to drain in any situation as long as your air handler is higher than the fall of the drain.TRAP AND VENT GUYS.
unless of course the float switch fails like mine did TWICE. Put bleach in system in June to make sure no algae in drain line. by mid July flooding downstairs unit. 10k+ damage because no one was occupying unit below. Rectorseal ss1 said not under warranty because lack of maintenance. Guess I am supposed to check drain line twice a month every month. Don't see use in buying float switch if I have to check drain line that often.
They usually have a set of instructions that come with float switch. But look for Red wire coming from Thermostat. trace it down to where it connects in the air handler unit itself. That thermostat wire should be wire nutted together. Disconnect that wire nut and install float switch. You should now have the red wire coming from thermostat connecting to one wire of the float switch and the other wire of the float switch will connect to where the red wire used to connect. The float now bridges that connection. Turn system on and once on flip float switch upside down and unit should turn off.
It’s because there will not be any drain water going through the secondary pipe in normal conditions unless the primary pipe is clogged. So the P trap there wouldn’t work.
The first thing that I would consider is to trap unit #2 with a vent on the exiting side of the trap. Depending on the fall between unit #1 and #2 will determine the application. Pressure equal on both drains equals proper draining. Hope this helps.
The PVC lines for the drain are lower on that model pan which I'm glad they changed/updated, I've seen several where the PVC line is 1/4 inch above the pan causing standing water and mold in the large surface area pans, most of those I've seen mounted in attics that are humid anyway. This pan looks much better.
At 4:17 you noted that in a positive pressure system, if air is coming out the secondary, it prevents water from drainingout the primary. I have experienced this (resulted in water coming out the secondary while the primary wasn't clogged, and filling the emergency pan), but can anyone explain why this is the case? Putting a vent before the trap, exactly as shown in the video, fixes it. I'd just like to understand why this happens if anyone knows.
This doesn't make sense with the secondary drain. There shouldn't ever be any water in the secondary drain line unless the primary is clogged. So if the primary is working properly then how would the secondary ever form an airtight seal? There won't be any water in that p-trap
Now I have an older furnace. It appears to only have 1 drain, and I noticed the drain dumped into my crawl space. Well I just put a new encapsulation in, so now it's dumping into a plastic. Should I go though the hassle of putting a P trap in? It's a vertical application, I have no documentation on my system, and the condenser is under the blower. And it blows air down. I was thinking of just running a line to my sump pump.
The problem I see with primary and secondary traps is that the secondary trap well not have a water seal an tell the primary plugs up if you just add water to the secondary trap it will soon evaporate out. One other big problem I see is installing Condensate lines directly to the main sewer pipe with out a bacteria air gap trap sewer gas and bacteria leaching in to the evaporator.
Exactly, a trap only works when water is in the trap !!! The secondary tap should have an overflow switch to shut off unit when main drain clogs...............
I just got brought into a brand new property where there’s 266 drains built wrong. I’m so furious. And of course nobody in the office(leasing) understands why there is an issue. Hopefully this video will help them understand...doubt it, but I can hope.
Our air handler sits on rubber vibration pads on the floor,it's only 2" off attic floor. Your traps extend 6+" below the pan?! How's that possible unless the unit is jacked way up on a platform or a desk like you're using here?
The issue I see with your secondary drain P trap and negative pressure scenario is the trap will never get primed, and even if it does get primed manually it will evaporate. So essentially, you’ll just be venting through the secondary drain. What am I missing?
As long as the main drain isnt working, yes, you'll be pulling air from the secondary pipe, which is fine. If the main drain clogs and water rises in the pan to where it needs to drain out of the secondary pipe, water will then fill the P-pipe.
Appreciate the comments. First of all, the secondary drain trap can be taken care of by way of a simple substance called baby oil/mineral oil. When the trap is filled with oil water bypasses the oil when needed and oil remains in the trap keeping the system sealed. Trap never runs dry. Equal resistance pertaining to airflow not the flow of the water is the key. If you choose to cap secondary with an emergency switch that's fine too. However, if the switch fails then the cabinet is ruined. Hope this clears up any concerns you might have and thanks again.
How is a trap effective on a secondary when there is not supposed to be fluid in there? Even if you intentionally put some there, it will dry out in way less than a season, especially for units in the attic.
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My installer did not add a J trap on the secondary drain and it appears my primary drain was not used at all and all the condensate was draining through secondary drain. I added J trap on the secondary drain as per your video and I can see that condensate is draining through my primary drain now but I am still getting some condensate through my secondary drain. How do you make it go away? Is it something to do with the height of shorter leg on the Strap on the primary and secondary drain. If they are kept at the same height then that can behave the same and condensate can drain through either line. Water level difference is only few mm higher on the secondary drain as compared to the primary drain. Thanks for your feedback.
The traps serve to prevent the loss of conditioned air (or the introduction of unconditioned air on a negative pressure system), but ONLY when they have water in them. The emergency drain trap would never get water in it unless the first one became sufficiently clogged.... That said, my system had the emergency drain port plugged (cute), the primary trap clogged, and my wood floor got F'd up. This is a commercial installation, and employees did not recognize the sound of falling water in the air handler every time it cycled off! I'm going to install a float switch and a manual reset circuit such that the unit will be shut down if the condensate ever backs up again.
Be careful trusting in that float switch. I installed two. tested to make sure they work properly and then less than a year later they both failed within two months of each other. one was caught before it had any chance to do damage and both were cleaned out and sent on their merry little way. then the second one failed sometime July and 10k+ worth of damage to lower floor happened. Just be careful.
Oh ,mine doesn't drain outside it drips onto the laundry room floor where there is no floor drain. Thus the "leak" that my landlord discovered a few days before I was scheduled to move in. A neighbor said that there is a floor drain in the laundry room so I am assuming when the linoleum was replaced it was laid over the floor drain, beacause its not there. Sure would be a shame if this new carpet and floor boards and linoleum and sheet rock (assuming it was replaced from the water line) all had to be replaced again because the maintenance supervisor is lazy. I've had a cookie sheet under it since I noticed the drip. Can't use the A/C because it fills everytime It shuts off so I'm afraid it will overflow. So now I will have to notify the landlord of the leak, the disruption, walking on my carpet with dirty shoes, having to move my washer and dryer and dining room table, tearing up the linoleum. Or i'm thinking I could run some same diameter plastic tubing from the elbow to the washer hose drain thats uphill so that is no good. I Could pull out the washer find the indention from the floor drain and cut the linoleum out would still have to run something from the pipe to the drain cut a hole in the drain trap so water doesn't go under the linoleum Pour gallons of water down the drain to make sure its not clogged. Wiggle the washer back into place The pipe sticks out of a hole in the wall about 5 inches theres a elbow on the end that sits about 2 inches above the floor. There is plaster all around the pipe where it comes through the wall. There is no chance of rotating it. I don't know lol. Just venting.
I have pretty much this set up with my A/C. However, I need a dehumidifer and would like to have that drain into the existing piping too. Does anyone have an example of that?
Last owners put a toilet roll as an adapter lol. I only realized after It was dripping. I pulled it out and it was drenched. Don’t know why they came up with an idea like this. Also they had stripped threads.
I have a carrier 58mca 060 with a pump on the outside to pump the condensation water outside the house(built on a slab). There is a pvc pipe from the trap to the pump, sticking down through a hole into the bottom of the pump. If the tube is under the surface of the water in the pump before it empties, is that considered another trap and should I shorten it to keep it above the water? It has been installed and operating that way for about 20 yrs but I don't know if it should be. Thanks
Some commercial AC normally at high speed and the trap wouldn’t work since the negative pressure is so strong that all the water in the trap will be sucked out
You show the primary is vented into (say an attic). Since many systems drain into house sewer system do you want these sewer gases in the attic even it is through a 3/4" opening.
Never drain them into a stink pipe. Some will go into a laundry drain that should be trapped . Most attic installs drain out with the line set or close by.
I don't have a trap on my 12 foot drain line. It's a rooftop combo furnace/AC unit with a slight drop of maybe 2 inches on the 12 feet of drain. I am in Southern Arizona with very little humidity. It drains just fine. Is it working because the unit doesn't have to remove humidity?
I have a question about drains. I have two units upstairs and one #1 has a drain with a stack and a trap, no issues. The other unit #2 has just a straight drain with no stack) they both murge into the same pipe 3/4 pipe to the sink drain. drain #1 is higher than #2 were it ties in to the 3/4 pipe. The issue is that it seems that drain #1 puts pressure in the pipe pushing water back up pipe #2 .all the back to the unit. How can I correct this cause its ruined my cielings a couple times and every a/c tech say nothing wrong and that the pipes are cloggeg. They are not clogges just fighting each other. Hope you have some ideas. I wish I could draw you a picture!
Why would someone combine the primary and secondary drain? they did this on my current unit. it has both lines going in the wall but they just connected them, only one trap.
Thank you for your information. What is the difference between positive and negative pressure? Do we need a p trap if it’s vertical? Where can we find one for a furnace?
Why does my unit need a vent before the trap in the main drain? The secondary line is teed off to the emergency drain pan and then it goes out to the backyard by my window
All the mention of code is irrelevant code is the bare minimum. We float protect the main pan via the secondary hole AND still float protect the safety pan via a pan mounted float. We have NEVER p trapped a secondary and never would.
i always put EZ trap on my installs along with a float switch in the emergency pan and i just plug the secondary drain ...is this wrong?.. if it is , why?....just curious, thanks in advance!
@@moisesbonilla9362 isn't that overdoing it tho...already have safety switches on the primary and emergency pan, adding another safety on the secondary would make it 3 ..i mean is it really practical?
ILL LOKANO thats not a bad idea because if theres water in the secondary pan it wont be alot. As long as you have a safeT switch in the secondary you’ll be fine. But i know its not recommended to merge drains but it works
What make the secondary drain secondary? They are both at the same level. It's not a primary/secondary it's a duel drain......and I don't see the point. Obviously I am missing something.
The secondary drain is a little bit above the primary that's what it make the secondary "secondary " probability you can tell in the video but that's how it is 👌
@@WOODYSOOPY On my Carrier, both vents are the same height. The difference is(and I only found out after taking out the connections) is the secondary has a dam that restricts the water from coming out and the main has no restriction
I enjoy the tips but when your snaking gum loud enough to come through the video I had turn to another, please remedy this for until then I will not share your video
I never did understand the reasoning behind putting traps on a condensate drain. Considering that they are usually run to openly dump into a floor drain or basement sink, it's not like you need to block sewer gas from coming back up. So what's the point?
Preventing vacuum loss in a negative pressure system. Furnace pressure switch won't allow start if condensate drain has no trap... No trap, no vacuum, no start...
It's a clean out. Bc if you do the rest correct, it'll all be glued except that cap. Then when you call for maintenance they pop the cap off and clean out the drain line. Not code everywhere. But not a bad idea. Future visits will thank you
primary drain line. ok. it connects "lower" on the drain pain. and will see water. secondary / aux / emergency drain line, it connects higher. and will only see water if primary drain line gets clogged. ISSUE #1, secondary drain line, will never see water, on normal usage, as a result P trap will be dry and/or simply run dry completely. and in that, no Air seal. air will simply be pushed out the emergency drain all the time. ISSUE #2, installing a P trap on the secondary / aux / emergency drain line = a CLOG. it will take more pressure for water to get through the P trap. this is an emergency / aux / secondary drain line. it should have direct flow of water with no traps. if i installed a TRAP on pressure/temperature relief valve piping on a gas hot water heater. i would be RED FLAGGED. ISSUE #3 your drain pain stinks. both primary and secondary connections in video look exactly the same height going into the pan itself. NOW if the drain pan itself was tilted. so the emergency / aux / secondary connection was physically higher than the primary drain line. ok, but no mention of that in video. and the pan is laying perfectly flat in video. ================= ISSUE #4a P trap on primary drain line. = required, it does a couple things 1st. water will be in this line in normal usage, if air was also being pushed through, it would be like someone talking and spit flying ever were as they talked. a P trap creates enough pressure difference to block air from going through the Primary drain line. ISSUE #4b EXAMPLE: in old furnace and a/c coil on top of it. if primary drain line of A/c coil did not have a large enough P trap (using hose) on it. water would "SURGE" back and forth like a wave going up and down inside the P trap. and would create like a hammering effect or piston effect or water hammering effect. that would change air pressure inside the system causing issues with sensors and noise. having a trap that is to small in height difference from inlet to outlet side of P trap. ISSUE #5 there is always statements about PULLING AIR FROM A UTILITY ROOM were a furnace and/or A/C Coil is located. primarily due to dryers, other gas appliances, chemicals, etc... within the room. but it does not say much about putting air into the utility room. there should be no issue for a little 3/4" to 1" inch pipe. putting air into the same room as the furnace and/or a/c coil. that 3/4" to 1" pipe would be the emergency / aux / secondary drain line.
This guy cannot teach, worth a damn. The only viewer who would understand what he is talking about is somebody who already knows this stuff. What I get from the video is a lot of hand movement and pipe shuffling and talk about negative and positive air pressure, without defining what any of that terminology means.
What pressures is the PVC experiencing? You think the pvc will blow apart with the trickle of water going down? What's the point of the J trap even? Told hold back odors, meanwhile you have open PVC connected out to the sewage. If there is a clog, then what? You insert a tool and it pops out the other end, as opposed to going down towards the sewer, towards the clog. Just ass-backwards. And I've only done this for two months. You need to set the T out of your air handler with the middle port connected. The top of the T is then capped. You run a P-trap, J-trap, whatever, down the T. So now the "Vent" can be used properly. AS A CLEANOUT. WTF this guy's theory of pressures in the PVC is so dumb.
Do you do sheetrock work also? Tell me what happens over the winter when the water trapped in p-trap freezes because you didn't bother to provide a drain or easy means to disassemble the pipes to remove the water. I'll tell you. THE TRAP BURSTS. Then in the spring when you turn it on again for the first time it DUMPS ONTO YOUR CEILING CAUSING IT TO COLLAPSE. New house, first with central air. Had no idea how the AC drained. Now I know!. Ripped the builder a new one that following spring. His answer was " Duhhh, code doesn't call for a drain", so water is supposed to come out by MAGIC over the winter.WARNING TO EVERYONE WITH HOUSEHOLD CENTRAL AIR IN A ZONE WHERE TEMPERATURES GO WELL BELOW FREEZING IN THE WINTER. DON'T DO WHAT IS SHOWN IN THIS VIDEO, Either build your own home grown trap with a drain or do as I did and re-plumb with a pair of unions so the trap can be easily removed and drained before winter. No, you will not find a 3/4 pvc p-trap with a cleanout plug in any plumbing supply store, they don't exist.I've asked several HVAC people I've stumbled across what they do to prevent pipe burst over the winter. The answer NOTHING!!!!! They just assume your attic has crappy insulation and the pipes won't freeze. Commercial AC? The air hander unit is generally in a heated space so its not an issue.
If your attic is freezing, your home comfort priorities are better focused on insulation. Address the dwelling's insulation issues. If you have any sort of AC unit, you must reside in a warm region, hence the cooling requirement. How can a condensate trap still have water in it, in freezing temperatures? Condensate drains do not burst unless Summer turns to Winter, overnight. Commercial rooftop units crank out AC for office buildings, with exposed PVC external traps all over the globe, in the dead of winter, to suck the heat away from mall zombie shoppers, server rooms, gyms, rec centers. They don't split from freezing dude. If you have water in a drain line, freezing well after the warm season, it must be a tub sized vessel, riddled with moldy, yucky, soon to be yuckysicle attic pops. Something else is happening at your place dude. Basic ratios apply to draining water. If your drain worked in warm weather, then the drain works. If your house is freezing, on the INSIDE and you magically have preserved condensate from warm weather, well, you've got something really special, my friend.
