Hello Joe, I have run my own shop for 20 plus years. I'm writing to tell you how much I admire the care you put into your videos, and the clarity with which you present your ideas and concepts. There are many people out there who will benefit from your efforts. Keep it up! Thanks.
Hi Joe, again a great lesson. And allow me this comment just because you have mentioned that you don't want this video to be boring: actually, beyond the importance of seeing the real details, I very much appreciate to see that some things simply take their time and that therefore I don't need to feel like I'm veeery sloooow when doing similar stuff. In fact, most of the time youtube folks show this kind of "boring" footage in quick motion only and basically reduce everything to a nice, shiny chipmaking show. Instead, not only you give us an idea on how long such a job can / must take (even when done by a seasoned Pro) but you also make very good use of the "boring" parts and give us extremely precious "bonus" advice while doing so. Thanks again for this and ... congrats for the 100K! Dan
Hey Joe, wanna' thank ya' for taking the time to post this up. For the six guys who give this video a 'thumbs down'... I'm guessing one or two may have been by accident; the rest were probably simply to keep machining videos from showing up in their RU-vid feed Because, the value of the content here is top notch. When you figure that shop time - any shop with trained personnel and decent equipment, anywhere in the US in 2020 - is damn hard to come by at $100/ hr, and that's based on the average guy in the average shop... not the highly experienced guy in the shop who can do the troubleshooting and tricky stuff... I've sat through a lot of lessons in the years that put a hell of a lot less value into a whole lot more time
Right on Joe as always! Having worked in the automotive industry for many years, drills got the metal out, boring bars positioned the hole, and reamers gave you diameter and finish. Many people always wanted to skip a pass or two, with little success. When holes had to be deep, straight, and with a finish, gun drills were used, like on automatic transmission valve bodies. Gundrill geometry is very unique and contains parts of the three tools above, in one tool, but is not for the average machine shop. Gundrills require a hardened drill bushing to start the hole, high pressure coolant (~1000psi) to move the foil-like (
That was one of the most useful engineering videos I have see. Thanks for taking the time to do this. A lot of people are benefiting from your efforts.
Joe I’m one of those guys that will forget everything you tell me unless I know “why”. Your explanations and theory at the “board” are very helpful to me..
Good content. I worked PT as a Tool & Die machinist (apprentice) while studying engineering. Appreciative of the patience & knowledge my mentors shared with me. With 40 years of Mfg / Construction experience behind me, it's great to see other pass-along great detailed work instructions such as this RU-vid video. Well done sir !!
Joe, this had me glued to the chair. 45 minutes went by like it was 10 or less. I was just recently (like last night) wondering about "rifle drills" and such to get a good straight hole. Thanks!!
When I was in school I worked weekends and summers for a Master Tool & Die maker (friend of my father), and this was in the Mid-Late '70's. SO Much of what you cover reminds of "knowledge" I'd forgotten! Thanks for putting in the time and effort to share all the things that aren't in "The Machiney's Handbook" or anywhere else! I put in a good amount of hours on a Bridgeport, a Hardinge, and a big gap bed Graziano. Back then CNC was in it's infancy, so I never learned any basic programming, But I still get people who found out from 'This or That guy" that I have a tooled shop in my Garage--(although I've never "worked" as a machinist)...And it's nice to be able to find not only things I've forgotten, but SO much more! Very Generous of you to share--Huge Thanks!
I really like people, who know what they're doing. I'm a precision mechanic myself. Best job in the world. Gives me smiles every day! Watching good machining videos never gets boring. Joe I would have watched you finish that hole in real time n all. Caus I get it! Thanks!
I really don't understand the square hole thing, but everything else was blowing my mind. The quick retract of the drill by using the carriage and tail stock was exceptional. Love it
This isn't just solid gold. This is solid platinum knowledge. For such a simple thing you've provided us with so many hints and things to think about. A total winner of a video. Thanks so much for sharing your years of experience both in this and all your other videos. It really helps us hobbyists.
Joe I have been using your hole techniques now since this video came out, this stuff works great. No more wandering weeble worble lost target. I've changed my drill press operations too based on this lesson. Thanks from North Carolina. PS...I'm watching it again to see what I missed.
Thank you for this. I have had so many failures trying this. I especially appreciate the 'chalk talk'. I like knowing why things happen as well as how to fix it.
Wanted to add that my father (now 88) taught me that carriage bump technique when I was 10 years old, and I've used it all my life. What's new to me is the virtual creation of a precision, concentric guide bushing with the center drill, drill, bore, ream sequence you detailed here... fantastic! BTW, I used Anchor Lube years ago... a bottle was given to me by a sales guy for lubing rubber that was to be die-cut. It worked great for that, but I never knew it could be used as a cutting fluid...gotta go find some!
Thanks, Joe. Always a few gems in each clip. I already (probably as a teenager) came up with using the carriage as a depth reference, but your later tip on a great way of quickly re-establishing the drilling depth after changing to a longer drill, by delaying locking the tailstock to the bed, I do now recall (thanks to you!) I used to do when I had smaller lathes, but I need to try on the big machines I now generally run. It's not enough to come up with these things intuitively, a real teacher will take careful note of such tricks in order to remember AND refine them, and even more importantly, to pass them on. "Paying it forward" is what got us to the top of the food chain, and you are a master of the art! Thanks again. You really are a treasure to this community of interest, and your generosity is truly admirable. PS: On my biggest lathe, your reminder might just give me the impetus I need to add air injection to make the tailstock move more easily. It's not huge, as 5MT tailstocks go, and does not have a gearbox, but it's a potential twisting strain on the back if I was to do a really deep hole. For instance, I have a 65mm diameter spade drill I made the 5MT holder and shank for which is 700mm long. Last time I used it, it took several hours to take to full depth! (I don't have high pressure coolant, just high volume flood, and of course there is no pilot hole, so I was clearing it every few mm). I don't have rapid on the carriage, either, otherwise it would be a no-brainer to use IT to push the tailstock back each time, once the depth started to amount to something. I would lash the tailstock to the carriage with cord, and if I did this, I could use a magnet under the front shear of the bed as an automatic moving depth indicator for stopping the forward motion of the carriage, similar to your original tip, to avoid headbutting the spade bit into the hole and risking making an indent to propagate chatter, which of course is the sworn enemy of spade drills. I use Allied bits, and I stick with HSS for durability and because they tolerate things like no high pressure coolant and (intermittent) chatter much better than carbide, and I highly recommend them for deep holes in these larger sizes.
Hey, Gottenhimfella, If you are interested in 'Deep Hole and Deeeeeep Trapanning' have a look at "David Wilks" you tube channel. That will blow your mind. Just a suggestion.
Will definitely use the carriage stop method in the future. I have always hated the dialing in and out when drilling deeper holes. Another great shop tip and video!
Great Video! As far as drilling tools are concerned you will get better tolerances from a drill with a less aggressive helical angle. The reason for this has to do with the center of the drill and the amount of material left in it to give rigidity. More twist= Less rigidity. there will always have to be a balance between rigidity and chip evacuation. Without TSC in a machine you will never be able to avoid that dilemma. Haas and Mitsubishi have great videos regarding this exact principle, plus the add benefits of Drill Coatings, and the roles that they play in drill selection for any given material to help with tolerances and chip evacuation. Also worth noting: tool tolerances are horrible (relatively speaking) if you can cut parts, you can cut tools. if you want to change the relief angle or distance on a drill, a tool cutter or tool grinder will give you so much more bang for your buck in the shop. DIY works every time for the trained professional.
I have yet to buy my first hobby lathe for my newly developing interest in metal working. Approaching retirement from the electrical industry, you and other RU-vid creators in this field have made it interesting and educational, but more importantly understandable for the newcomers. Thanks for the great content. Keep up the amazing work for us still at the start line. Cheers Pete' from New Zealand.
I know this is an old video but I'm JUST getting into lathe work and this video REALLY cleared up what can go wrong if I only use a drill bit (What I thought was the process) and how to drill all the way through, correctly, and keep it center. Thanks Joe, your "Class room" style videos really help me.
Can’t remember the project just a few months ago but had a through hole come out way off center. Got it the second time by slowing down and changing drills but this would have ensured it. Great tip I’ll start using!
Just did this procedure 1/8" hole, 4" deep in P20 all from one end because I wanted to have the confidence in the process when I can't do from both ends in the future. I had to skip the boring bar step because I didn't have one that small. When I got done I flipped it and chamfered the exit. Hole was dead on. Thanks.
Thank you so much Joe. I always used to blame my knackered 1950's lathe for not being able to drill straight holes. Your very clear presentation explains exactly where I have been going wrong.
I may never get that precision into my holes, but I will definitely use the "bump the tailstock" part. What I like most with all of your technique videos is that you don't just explain what works, but also the theory behind it. A lot of people will tell you a good way of doing something "because this is what I've always done, and it works", but not actually explain (they may not know, or can't describe it).
@@joepie221 Absolutely. You're doing it right, keep on doing it that way! It may not suit everyone, but I think that goes for absolutely every thing in the world, that's why there are many kinds of motorcycles, beers, machine shops, youtube channels, etc. We may not agree on the type of beer (If I'm in Austin, I'll get myself a Shiner Bock! Not what I drink in England, as it's almost impossible to get), but I agree with your style of youtube channel! :)
I followed this procedure almost exactly. Missed the starting bore, over by about a thou. That didn't matter. Drilling with 31/64th pilot into 1.5 inch dia. 4130. Reaming every 1/4 to 1/2 inch with 0.4995 straight flute ream...old one, but sharp enough. Went a little over 6 inches and my precision ground stainless rod, 0.4990 slides perfectly, rotates perfectly as if it were a factory bearing. IT WORKS! I have not measured concentricity carefully, but when I flipped the part in my 4 jaw, the center was dead nuts. (And I'm not good with a 4-Jaw yet.) Go slow;y, clean the chips every time the flutes are full, and use lube. Tried Anchor Lube...interesting stuff but it obscures all visibility of the cutting tool surfaces. Not sure where I'll use it in the future, but I did not prefer it for this. It does a good job...just kinda weird.
Anchor lube is good for high friction applications, and I use it, but don't let it sit on your machine ways or carriage too long. Black stains are almost a given.
Great lesson Joe ! From a s/retired design engineer and former toolmaker. It just came to me that another great way to explain the deep hole drifting (to those who may not easily grasp) is how the oil and gas industry drill holes miles deep and at all sorts of angles into the ground and ocen beds(maybe?) Enjoy all of your tips and all the youtubers crafts people.
Talk about fortuitous. Normally I don't drill long holes down the axis of parts, but I had to do it today so I could repair my tractor rather than wait for an ordered part. I made two 1/2" dia, 3" long holes that met in the center ... I didn't try gauge pins, but I could barely detect a little ridge where they met. Also I saved a lot of time with the "move the whole tailstock" idea. Thanks again.
I went +.006 over at the top of the hole and +.002 at the bottom just this week I expected +.002 top and +.000 at the bottom. I didn't account concentricity of the drill grind or leave room for finish boring. Thanks Joe.
Thanks Joe. I've a 'back yard' business making a product involving a part with a 5" deep 9mm hole which has to be dead nuts. So much of this is going to save so much frustration & alcohol abuse...
I almost can't wait till I get my first lathe to see how much I have learned from you, I definitely don't have as much nervousness about it as I had when I started watching machine shop videos on youtube. I think you have the best channel for learning, Thank you so much Joe. 3 days late but I hope you had a Happy Birthday.
Thanks Joe for the wonderfully clear explanation. I had to drill a 3mm hole through a 5mm rod 75mm long last weekend. Being really careful and working from both ends, I drilled undersized and reamed out to full size. Managed to get the hole straight enough to put a piece of 3mm drill rod through (which is what I required). But it was not as good as I would have liked. Particularly, I was surprised to find an oversize section at each opening. NOW at least I know why!!! This video is so full of tips and tricks I will have to watch it again. I had heard about sliding the tail stock before but not about using the cross slide as a stop! Tried it drilling a piece of brass and, of course, ran the drill bit into the bottom of the hole when sliding forward. As you said with horrible results. Too scared to try it again, I have spent many happy hours winding the tail stock back and forth ever since. My right arm thanks you...
Great subject for a video. Couldn't be more relevant to whats currently on my mind as I make shop furniture and safety equipment. As I have finally obtained a lathe and a small CNC mill to start learning with. Once again thanks for Sharing your knowledge and experience with us.
G'day Joe, as always a rippa vid. thanks. The information you share is great and muchly appreciated. I think the reason your vids are so well-liked is that you don't waffle on AND manage to explain all the factors relating to the job at hand. Keep it up. Appreciate the Aussie flag on your whiteboard :)
This is by far the best I've seen on this topic. Thanks for sharing your life-long experience with us. I am trying to drill 8.5" 3/4" C360 brass round bar for an oil manifold. I will see if I can do it with the tips you have offered here.
Excellent explanation on why the wander starts in the first place. Also really like the carriage bump trick, I can see that's a real time and effort saver. Another trick I found on the lathe if you don't have the stub length drills on hand is, even with a good pilot hole, stay out of the resonate frequency of the drill with the RPM. changing the RPM can have a surprising effect on the drills tendency to wander.
Always good, thanks. It is always good to hear and see someone from home. I lived in Austin 30 years then moved just outside to Pflugerville for about 20 years and how near Tulsa Ok.
this is a great video! the theory was epecially useful and some good tips for drilling on the lathe. I would like to see your approach for the same process on a drilling machine? Lots to learn here and I have subscribed as videos of this quality are rare!
Very helpful! Much food for thought. I am a beginner, but I have sort of used some of these ideas to some extent, but your video ties the different ideas together in a more coherent way. Thank you!😃
lol i use a mini lathe and if i ever need something to be really straight, i just get out my toolpost grinder and my diamond bits. it'll go straight eventually... excellent video! so scientific, and a great resource for learning about what's actually going on behind the curtain.
Been machining stuff for near 60 years and I learned a couple of things here. I watched because I'm about to build a 1:10 replica of the Constitutions 24 pound guns. Thanks Joe
Stopped here at the end of the white board lesson. That all makes perfect sense, and unless someone who knows the tricks shares them with you, you will continue to struggle. Joe is a machine shop genius. Anyone who says different is...well...less than genius. Now out to the shop floor to make it happen. Great stuff Joe. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would pay to work with you for a couple weeks or more. Worth it.
Thirty years ago I had to drill holes 3/8" diameter 24" deep in 2024 aluminum that I was making into aerodynamic probes for the wind tunnel I was working in. I first made a plate wider than the lathe cross slide and notched it to straddle the cross slide then tapped it every half inch and made a steel dovetail block to fit my BXA Aloris tool block with an adjustment screw to fine adjust the height. I cranked the spindle out on the tailstock and with the cross slide ran the hole plate up against the side of the shaft to get it parallel. O aligned the stock on the hole plate with pins and clamps and used an edge finder to center the stock then center drilled and drilled with a stub drill, a standard length drill then a taper length drill which got me in about 6". Then I used a 24" long 3/8" drill that was made for drilling wood lamps that I had silver soldered a 6" extension on.I would drill a quarter inch deep and back out, I only had the one drill and didn't want to risk it breaking it. I didn't use the power feed I just cranked the longitudinal feedback and forth till I was at the proper depth to meet the cross hole that was predrilled. It worked for the two probes I had to make and then I had to make smaller probes that only had a 6" deep hole but it was 1/8" in 17-4 H900 and I broke one drill out of 5 try's, I needed 4 probes.Using the plate on the lathe as a holder for the stock worked great like a horizontal boring mill would have but I didn't have easy access to one so the lathe was great.
Double o Joe (00Jπ) hit's the mark once again!!! Brilliant marksmanship Joe, the drill math was a serious eye opener. Keep the teaching going, you're the best!
Super stuff, Joe! I wish I'd seen this 2 years ago! Better late than never! Been doing the tailstock gem since I was a kid, but the beginning tutorial was the dope! Thanks for your time and sharing! You've got an old dog learning new tricks! 👍😎✌️
Thank you for your time and effort. I'm here to learn machining from a true Master. I don't care if you call that guy a morphodite, troglodyte, hermaphrodite, transvestite, or some other word I can't spel. Joe you communicate wonderfully, I learn a lot from you. Thank you
Great advice on drilling deep and straight. I was thinking of boring out a muzzle loading barrel to install a rifled insert (someone gave me the rifle with a pitted barrel) but was concerned about some of the problems that would be encountered. This demo was very enlightening. I'm re-thinking it now. Thanks!
Thank you Joe! It took me a paying attention to the way you allowed the tailstock to kick out to avoid the drill grabbing. I'd love to see how to do this on the mill. Have a great weekend!
Joe I couldn't find privet messaging so saying it here. I ended up using some of what you taught in this video in my latest video "Making a Custom Slitting Saw Arbor Pt2" @ 32:00 What you teach here is really helpful so I decided to mention in my video where I learned it from. Thanks for showing us all that you do. it is very much appreciated.
The best video on deep hole I have seen ! Your explanations are clear ! GREAT teacher !! Just use this technic for a 3" deep 1/8" diameter hole and it worked flawlessly ! I am working on a mini lathe: I would like to know how to proceed to drill a 1/2 inch hole .... 1/2" drill from the start OR 1/8, then 1/4, then 3/8 ... Thank you for your attention, from a subscriber.
If you leave too little material for a finish cut, you risk burning the edges off your drill. If you leave too much, you risk an oversize hole if the drill isn't ground correctly. Its going to be trial and error for different materials. What ever you come up with, just remember, a pilot drill is effective when it relieves the material equal to or greater than the web thickness on the next drill in line. I usually go for 1/3 of the hole size as my pilot on smaller holes.
Hi Joe, Do you have any videos that deal with aligning the tailstock? There are plenty of videos out there, but with most things, there’s usually some Joe Pie trick that makes it faster and more accurate.
Very good info. I was failing often, resizing existing worn hole in part, by simply thinking drill would ‘find’ appropriate center and happily follow center of worn existing hole. Hahahaaaa…. Thank you Joe. You not only explained what was happening in my fails, you gave the solution. Because of you educating me, I now chose methods with tooling I have or make, to not fail job. Thank you. My jobs are 13” - 28” deep. If people don’t believe a drill can walk a hole out the side in that distance, I will laugh at them! Yes it will . Excellent explanation of what was happening with my work!
Using carriage to stop tail stock also excellent. I mount/ align tool on carriage instead of using tailstock. I lay a piece of metal on the ways to move carriage back to cutting position after retracting for chip clear out. When you’re doing 28” deep, mounting tooling on carriage is faster .
Also, on existing long through holes, I make 30” tool to go through existing hole. The use carriage to pull cutting tool through existing hole. Then use tooling for final hole.
Thanks Joe - I picked up several good tips! I can't think of a better way than your videos to disseminate the considerable experience you've accumulated to the rest of the world (literally). Thanks to your videos as well as others on RU-vid, I have been able to learn machining well enough to hit the numbers needed to implement creations and repairs with good success :-)
Sperry Sun developed a system called Slick Drill for drilling oil wells taking out the spiral typically seen in drilling. They designed a drill bit with a gauge reamer directly above the cutting structure. The reamer needed to be 1.5 times longer than the diameter of the bit. An 8 3/4" bit with the reamer built on was 16" long. Worked extremely well.
Thanks for the demonstration. Great advice. Never thought that the starting hole using a boring tool would hinder bit wandering. I'm a big fan of using the center drill due to the short shank and the rigidity it benefits from.
Hi Joe, recently I make some small boring bar holders for my lathe and mill, but the HSS 1/4 rods were not smooth going all the way through. I redo them , and follow your procedure of drilling, boring, reaming, under my milling machine (hole needs to be eccentric), and now the HSS 1/4 diameter rods slide smoothly in over a distance of 60mm. Many thanks for the great explanation and video! It works excellent! And yes, be patient the entire procedure.
Hi SirJoe! Teach us and make a living out of it, while we learn and make a living out of it. A thousand THANKS sir. I am a self taught air gunsmith, accuracy and precision is key, measurement are very exacting. I couldn't wrapt up a day without applying a learning from your video.
Great video Joe, ---- I never thought about the helix angle affecting the depth needed before the body of the bit to start guiding the cut. Also, great tip about the diamond pin, " Constrain somthing once, and do it well" or they will fight each other.. Pin 1 = location, but not rotation..... Pin 2= rotation.. It totally makes sense. Also nice tip about knocking the corners off a square pin, That's a lot eaiser to make that the rhombus shaped pin. My lathe is worn badly and I have taken to putting the HSS paritng tool in the tool post when center drilling. I clamp it up higher than the Centerline ( I don't have to change the height screw) . By gently resting the end of the paritng tool ( below the cutting lip) against the straight side of the center drill body, I get much better results. It sort of takes any run out from the worn tail stock /chuck/center drill assembly. Be well..
Adrian Davidson Believe it or not, this is inherently more accurate. Kudos. Although by not cutting on center you are introducing some Ill effects unless your bearings are worn to the point that you are accounting for material climb.
Once again, a very good description of a difficult process. I was taught a drill will make a hole with one more chord than the number of flutes. That is, a two flute drill will make a trichordal hole, a three flute drill will make a four “sided” hole and so on. Not sure if this tidbit of minutiae is important but I find it interesting.
They most certainly do exactly that, as I discovered to my chagrin while trying to drill a 20mm hole in a 12.7mm plate. The hole was so triangular that the matching 20mm rod wouldn't go through... Ultimately I had to bore the hole out on the lathe (thankfully the part was small enough to swing in my 4-jaw) and sleeve it to get it on-size, which is what I should have done in the first place (cutting corners never save you time).
