Tesla Cybertruck Climb : Analysed & Compared F-150, Rivian 

Thanks can you post the other video here please? Appreciate that comment!

I dont think RU-vid is allowing me to link the video@@L2SFBC

OK can you send me a link here l2sfbc.com/contact/

Just checked out your channel. Very cool; offroading in an EV, and tracking one! Would you be available for a Zoom interview, be fascinating to hear your perspective!

@@L2SFBC let me connect with you this weekend, getting ready to head to GIGA Texas for the delivery event

Even in combustion engine cars you will notice when the esp was trained well or the just used the besic program of the shelf. Had a car where the esp the was working with me and you could even go sideways as long as it detected you're still in control. And some the work against you like mommy and daddy sitting behind you ready to take control. So you need to bring it to the max to train the computer all possible situations. The rear end going sideways could be compensated with the rear steering...as it's all ECU,you just need to tell him what to do. Even Nissan made it was with the gtr 34, the rear wheel steering was turning against to get tighter turns at slow speeds, at higher speeds it was turning with to make smoothe lane changes and cornering, plus when the car got unstable it counteracted the wobble from the rear to straighten the car back out

That's exactly what the Tesla engineers have said it will do, against at low speeds, with at high speed (over 40mph) and using smaller angles (2-3 degrees)@@mammutMK2

Thanks!

If you ask someone that was there on the trail that day, the Rivian was rock stacked, dragged across the Rubicon, and took every bypass. The Rivian support vehicle R1T even broke a tie-rod and was blocking the trail. That's why there is no video online, only a few pictures. Dragging a 7k lb SUV across the Rubicon isn't something you'd gloat about too much.

​@@CallsignVega... It's only a matter of time before we get video of a Cyberstuck that has bottomed out & is up in smoke ... just hoping the passenger doors have a mechanical release.

That surprises me...I'd have thought it would have been quite capable?

yes finally a truck that says I'm vaxed and boosted

It looks really ugly too. 😂

The body itself looks stiff.

@@paulelledge8977 Yeah, not just touched with the ugly stick, fell out of the tree and hit every branch on the way down.

@@2URLex Its meant to be stainless steel construction and stainless doesn't like flexing much. It work hardens quickly and then cracks. All the welds separating is not a good look.

@@hoyks1 yea you’re right, I saw no articulation either. That couldn’t have been comfortable in the driver seat.

Thanks, something about "Tesla" and "cybertruck" sends people mad...

Yes, could have mentioned that, did look a little stiff

A HUGE weight and a lot of perfomance, need to be controlled. It's a difficult compromise.

Exactly right because it has little to no no flex and that setting

This is an issue, because sus has to be on its highest to even match the standard F 150. The "Cyber truck" is maybe meant for cyber space but not for off road driving.

@@bjorngve F150's standard ground clearance is anywhere from 8.3 to 9.4 inches, Cybertruck is at 17 inches at its highest setting. In order to get close to an F150's standard clearance, the Cybertruck has to get into its lowest settings, which brings it down to 8 inches...

Thanks, please share!

Thanks!

Glad you like them!

I appreciate that, thank you

To some extent I agree; for ICE vehicles I've not found anything better than a lockabke c/d. However for electric I think IWD would better.

Yes lower tyre pressure would help to some degree but it is a hard surface so not so much as a soft surface.

I hope so as damaged batteries are a fire risk. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Cm7Z8LshHJw.html

@@L2SFBC Awesome, facts no bull.

Glad you enjoyed it

Glad you liked it!

Not really, more about being able to maximise the available traction by sending the appropriate amounts of torque to the right wheel at the right time

Rivian driver has just commented see pinned post

I agree but it probably has cameras

I'm not sure

The market is people who want to be seen. Certainly not people who want a truck.

30 000 fanboys will buy it at first. Then no one. I doubt there is a market for a truck that can't do any truck things and looks like a prop from a 1980s scifi movie.

In salted winter roads the stainless is a plus. I have a gas hog wheeler but the awd model 3 is a great daily car and superb awd on icy roads.

✅ In salted winter roads 🔲 🔲 🔲 🔲 🔲

It depends on the rivian. Some have four motors, some have two.

exactly

to be fair it is still in development doing development things

@@L2SFBC Why does it always feel like Tesla is reinventing the wheel?

@@christophercharles3169 Because no one else makes the wheel they want to build. And then they build it, and everyone else scrambles to catch up.

@@aaronlabertew7739 Now that wouldn't be reinventing would it. I mean a stainless steel car is not new. Neither is bullet proof although when you're windows are not I fail to see the point. What does the Cybertruck offer that one really needs?

@@christophercharles3169I've seen this point made so many times about the lack of bullet proofness to the windows. Does everyone making these comments honestly think you wouldn't squish down in your seat and drive the heck away from a shooter? The doors on the CT have a VERY high sill, for almost everyone shorter than Kareem, there is plenty of room to duck down and drive away. Turn on the front camera and you could even do it and retain view of the road. A regular car is absolutely as effective as a sheet of paper for stopping any sort of round through the doors. The only safe place behind a car from normal fire is behind the engine or wheels, outside the vehicle. Someone opens fire on me, I'm speeding away, like a "not idiot". The CT will protect me from basic fire for 70% of my body, and if I duck down, all of it.

Yes all explained now in my EV Powertrain video

Rivian also sells a two-motor R1T.

Is that still current and was the same true of the R1S?

It means 285/65/R20 which is a sort of skinny 35 (Compared to my "little" tires I run in the winter on my Jeep which are 35 x 12.5 x 17s).

Good question...I was referring to tyre diameter, not the rim size. A 32" diameter tyre with a 17" rim is better offroad than a 32" tyre with a 20" rim. For more on the evils of low profiles please watch this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xyc8HYzEZPE.html

@@L2SFBC just watched it. excellent explanation. 👍

I'm running 17 beadlocks and 35s on a raptor. Mustang wheels fit a model 3. It would be cool if the cyber had 6x135 like the F150.

I agree with that!

That would be sweet! Especially since there is no transmission or transfer case in a Rivian or a CyberTruck.

No it does not as IWD is better anyway

@@L2SFBCthe one in the video was not showing g the locking differential but the press release and tesla both state locking diffs on the dual motor and cyberbeast.

It's just the battery needing extra cooling, not a fire risk. The car would have failsafes to shut down before that, like an ICE.

@@L2SFBC The Tesla that went into the lake from the boat ramp accident had the failsafe too but it kept the flames going while underwater. I just can’t trust them.

​@@L2SFBCactually it's not the battery it's the electric motors and inverters that needs alot of cooling since the vehicle isn't moving faster and the electric are been heavily used. I've seen alot of tesla and Rivian Offroad and they were even much louder than the ICE they were together.

Pure insanity to drive something that POSSIBLY can catch fire, but can't be extinguished, into the wild. Hello wildfires that we don't need!

ha love that expression!

Wouldn't make a big difference - that hill is about sending torque to where it needs to go.

@@L2SFBC You are kidding, right? Of course the type of tire can make a difference.

not in that test

It’s a little bit over 3 tons. It’s actually lighter than the Rivian, despite being bigger and stronger.

Abd will be about as successful as the Delorean.

it's enough of an obstacle to learn something. Unfortunately I don't have a Rubicon video on which to commentate.

It's not silly as the problem is sending torque to the right place not grip of the tyres. If it was tyre grip then all four wheels would spin. Once the torque is sorted, all cars make the climb.

exactly.

Yes I think 3x energy density is what we need

All all-terrains.

I’m intending to buy one in Australia and I’m only expecting 500-600km range.

Its only about 1000lb more than a raptor

... John Cadogan ordered one, I believe.

@@kradius2169 I find that highly unlikely.

@@timmo42... 🤣

Sorry, had to edit that to refine the thought.

The waste disposal problem is already being solved, if you've checked into that much. Lithium Ion battery packs are 97%+ fully recyclable. There are at least 3 companies I know of (one right here in Colorado started by a former Tesla Engineer) that are perfecting the process. By the time the batteries really start failing in numbers, it will be ready and running. And contrary to some people's beliefs, the lithium is fully re-usable to make new batteries, thus lowering the pressure on Lithium mining, brining, gathering needs. There really is no explosion danger (like taking L-Ion batteries on board airplanes and subjecting them to extreme pressure differentials, we don't generally do that with our cars). the fire potential is there (no worse than gasoline, which is far more flammable than anything in a L-Ion battery) but the trick is putting out ANY metal fire once it starts. Notoriously hard to do. But mostly that will also be solved with solid state battery tech which is coming soon. 5 years or less. Solid state also removes the formation of the dendrites that cause degradation of those batteries over multiple recharge cycles. The dendrites can only form in the liquid spaces between cathode and anode, like icicles reaching from one to the other. Solid state removes the space for that to happen, plus a lot of the fire danger. It is all coming.

We don't know Cybertruck, rest I could find out - be around 3.7-4.0t. However I've found that on hard surfaces like that mass is not a huge factor compared to tyre diameter, wheelbase, traction aids and in the case of the Jeep shown later...width! The 6t trucks like the Isuzus are immensely capable despite a huge weight increase over say a Ranger.

About 1000lb more than a Raptor. Basically about the same as a Lightning.

Making things up to strangers on the internet huh? Bold choice

Yes, throttle map is SO important and easy to do in EVs. A low crawl ratio would be great for that climb and not need any jumping to/from brake to destabilise the vehicle and risk a roll-back like the Tesla.

The Ford lightning is not an Offroad centred truck and it's also the least powerful of the group! The Rivian has 4 independent electric motors and it struggles alot compared to even 100hp ICE!

​@@L2SFBCit should have been great to include range rover for example! Or even Toyota! They have amazing Offroad capabilities and the crawl control system too.

​@@L2SFBCwith the crawl control system you can choose at which speed you wants to go, up or down! No need to use the pedals just steering

No, I mean offroad/rocks accelerator calibration!

The Jeep was not "mindlessly floored" but driven with skill, and it was able to avoid the ruts due to its narrow track.

@@L2SFBC I'm sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean the Jeep was driven mindlessly. I meant that flooring mindlessly would enable the EV drivers to drive up as fast as the Jeep did.

Yes. Except the Jeep was narrower so it could miss things easier.

In theory better, but in reality you have to wait for tires to start spinning and the computers to then make adjustments. The benefit of lockers is you can engage them prior to spinning tires and avoid slipping off your line in the first place. That's the same issue with any brake-based traction control - it will never be able to match a locker until it can preemptively intervene.

@@donhappel9566 You seem to under estimate the speed with which electronics can do stuff. Brake based traction control is always going to be much slower than an electric motor based one. Actual mechanical stuff has to move. With semiconductors, in under a microsecond,, 500V can be applied to a winding. Also, an electronic system can preemptively intervene to do the increased speed on the wheel that is traveling a greater distance. I am not saying Rivian does this because I didn't design it.

@@kensmith5694 Again, in theory it sounds great. In practice we've all seen them struggle - waiting for a tire to start spinning then applying correction. If you are doing any sort of technical driving you know that spinning = bad as you quickly move off the correct line and just an inch can often be the difference between making it up or not. Brake based TC can't do anything about this but individual wheel electric drive could if there was basically a "locker" switch which would force each tire to work together and could be engaged prior to attempting the obstacle. There is much potential for electric in the crawling world but thus far it hasn't been realized. But the possibilities are substantial.

@@donhappel9566 You will notice if you go back and read my comments you can see that I stated things as what an electric system could do if engineered correctly. I tend to do that, being and engineer. Yes, I presumed something told the electronics a hill was being climbed. In a machine as expensive as the Rivian, sensors and cameras and the like could do that for you.

Actually weight isn't always a massive disadvantage offroad, and in some cases, more weight can work to an advantage. But yes generally light is better.

@@L2SFBC agree, in shallow snow and in shallow wet mud with proper tyres (with deep structure) weight will be beneficial since it will push away the snow and mud for wheels to touch the understructure. But here in Russia and in Eurasia in general we have muddy, swampy lands which is poorly suited for those weight monsters. Even the paved roads will suffer from all these EV mass moved on four weels...

​@@4upkoBI competley agree with the weight issue. I visited my friends in my old home state. I rented a stock Gladiator Rubicon. At 4650 lbs it was significantly lighter than many of my friends modified rigs which can easily weigh over 6000 lbs. The trail we went on was covered with dense wet early spring snow. While many of the other vehicles sunk in the snow and needed to be winched out the lighter jeep could easlly just drive mostly ontop of the dense snow and was easily the most capable vehicle out that day.

@@L2SFBC other than very shallow snow or mud with a hard base under it, when would more weight help off-road? It could certainly be beneficial say as a tow rig but I'm not sure where it would help off road (?)