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Well the entire reason why they were going to make it side by side is so you can give BJ's in the car but I suggested that they make it front to back seating and the front seat can slide all the way up and the back of it can lay all the way down into the back seat to where it makes one big huge seat and this will be a perfect platform for getting bj's in or having sex in... pasta makes it so you can increase the safety because you can make it thinner and less wide because it's single person sitting in the seat front to back and I think that the depiction you showed is a very good depiction and I think that shows a single seat version and I think that's going to be almost exactly what it looks like... I think it will be a three wheeler unless 4 for regulation purposes exactly like you stated.
The front seats going to be able to lay into the back seat and slide all the way forward and the headrest will be able to retract into the seat or it will be removable so you can have sex in the vehicle... the shape is good but imagine front to back seating instead of side to side this will cut down the amount of total face that is hitting the wind which will increase the efficiency even more
The best production on topic. 🙌 The best is 4-6h usage per day. since similar non fsd services have 4h 30000 km/year so Tesla gets more out of it being delivery car adds another 3h to service time so those cars while serving as taxy will have 5 h and 3 h asdelivery cars have 2x advantage to regular non fsd version whil cost is 25k they offer 30-50% lower cost so under 10 cent per minute and 20cent per mile
Unpainted plastic seems inevitable. Nobody buys plastic cars, but nobody cares what their taxi is made from. (best badge is no badge, embed them in the mouldings)
Not caring about would be buyers egos is the biggest change to the design brief after the lack of steering wheel. There are so many costs that can be cut when aesthetics are less important. I would love to hear about the meetings where they went through what got cut when building back up from first principles that don't require appealing to status and only to practicality of getting fro A to B.
The Smart had plastic panels and sold great (especially in Europe). Corvettes have fiberglass and plastic panels and people LOVE them. Done well, especially with modern composites, plastic is not an issue. Lighter, easier to manufacture, can be branded easily for fleets (3rd party robotaxi operators) - it’s a great solution for next gen cars
Never mentioned point: Better traction and??? Trigonometry 101: You can draw a flat plane through any 3 points in space. ie: A three legged table NEVER wobbles, no matter how uneven the ground/floor/road. ie: You could build a 3 wheeler with solid tires and no suspension and all 3 wheels would ALWAYS stay on the ground, never losing traction... This means that with suspension, said suspension has a much simpler job to do..? I would love to hear what suspension tuning specialists, designers, etc have to say on this subject..??? (It's also simple to make such a vehicle lean into corners, somewhat like a motorbike, with some simple tuning of a single Active (electric) Anti-Roll Bar)
When Sandy Munro last interviewed Elon he asked him what his thoughts were on building a 3-wheeled EV. Elon said he would never consider building a 3-wheeled model as he doesn’t believe they’re safe enough for Teslas high safety standards.
I remember Sandy didn't specify number of wheels. He's just ask about making EV motorcycle and Elon say he's almost die from motorcycle accident in his youth. So he won't do it. This imply Elon meant it's 2 wheels that he won't do it, not 3.
@@mukamuka0 he did say something about 3 wheels at some point if not that interview. Sandy was doing it for Aptera and Elon was aware of what they were talking about. Sandy wanted Elon to assist Aptera somehow or buy into it.
I bow to your analytical process. The logic of your argument is captivating. If there were such a thing as engineering poetry, this is what it would look like to me. Other people shrink their brains with reality TV. I watch your videos - and my mind expands.
Love the video. I doubt the three wheel theory. There is a safety aspect in terms of puncture, driving on wet tarmac (traction) and snow. Also in the pic with Franz in front of the cardboard car at 3:24 the rear wheel is somewhat inboard of the front wheel but clearly not in the center as evidenced by the briefcases? Also I agree with no rear window (those who want to see behind can use the screen). However I don’t see the point of removing windshield and side windows and rather add screens? Seems complicated. Windows work well. On the windshield wiper this is needed to clean for the front camera.
All around screens may be good for entertainment purposes, revenue generator? E.g. can make the entire car look like its driving under water or a wrap around movie
Or the employee/Optimus that cleans out the taxi plugs in the charger and you don't need to waste energy making RF pollution and paying for a new system of chargers.
Perhaps the “change to the front” is to use the front module at both ends. If you’re rethinking the vehicle from first principles, and mix in unboxed manufacturing, it’s easy to think it could be extremely efficient to build a front module and a passenger module, and assemble a vehicle out of two “fronts” and a center passenger cabin. Better camera placement, two trunks, and no need for reversing - the vehicle is *always* driving forward! Admittedly this likely works better for 4 seat vehicle, with face to face seating.
When I was young, I loved little sport cars, low to the ground and drivers' legs almost straight, surround visibility and interior space somewhat limited (think Austin Healey, MGA, Fiat Spyder, even Corvettes, etc.). Plus, those were mostly 2-seaters, for me and a friend. All of the pictures in your video were similar. But nowadays, I can barely get into and out of such cars. A successful Robotaxi will require easy in- and out-egress, comfort and spaciousness, food & drink holders, and storage for luggage, groceries, book bags, whatever; as well as nice windows for external visibility. Most taxis, Ubers, etc. provide that (the Lincoln Town Car was about the best; a Tesla Y is about as good.)
@@darylfoster7944 Might agree about the Midget but I had a circa 1960 MGA. It was definitely NOT crap and I drove it for 1,000s of miles. .. Until I accidentally drove it off a cliff (called Devil's Elbow by the locals - really!) at night, flipped perfectly in the air, and landed, splat, on all four wire wheels in a (very handy, soft, country roadside) garbage dump. My younger brother, then in high school and about to inherit that car, still tells me that event changed his life .. his planned social life with a cool car! 😂
The new tire technology that is impervious to flat tires should be used as one less thing to have to maintain or worry about for robotaxi/autonomous vehicles.
@@0HOON0 Run-flat tyres make the ride a bit firmer,, but with 3rd get run-flats it's barely noticeable. I've driven BMWs with run-flats for nearly 20 years and it's good to know that even if you have a flat you can still drive for 50 miles at up to 50mph. Avoids disruption to customer service.
If you make the rear wheel/wheels to be on a platform like you have with an office chair, and put 2 motors on front (which can be used for acceleration and decelerarion by regenerative braking + running the engine in kind-of reverse to active braking), you can remove the entire steering and brakes while being able to do a tank turn by simply making one wheel run at a different speed than the other. Or inverse the direction for tank turns. More space, less complexity. And it would change the entire front.
The cost and complexity of replacing all windows with screens makes that unlikely. Three wheels is a possibility, but two front modules plus a passenger module is more likely. If Tesla implements independant 4 wheel steering, we could be looking at a cab that can rotate to any facing on the spot. Wipers to keep the cameras clear is essential. I do like the idea of plastic body pannels. The badges could be integrated into the molds and the colour could be added to the plastic. No paint. Smaller, lighter battery packs are likely. If the cab can only go 100 miles between charges, that could be plenty for city driving. And, the cab won't need neck breaking acceleration so massive amounts of power are not required either. I eagerly await the unveiling!
You could also throw in Buckminster Fuller’s Dymaxion Car as ancestral to this concept constellation. Three wheel with two up front, taking advantage of teardrop aero and other features.
A 3-wheeler thats would be a fundamental but very good change. Except its more difficult to avoid holes in the street there are many advantages. Then we are with the Aptera.
No... 3 wheels seems more efficient but is not really much more efficient than 4 wheels. Elon also said a few years ago that the 3 wheel design was not used for the "model 2". An argument that I find extremely important is the space gained for the trunk if the wheels are on the outside. Aptera chose to lengthen the vehicle to have an elongated trunk. But given the length of the cyber cab, I think it would be just impossible to have a trunk if the wheels were in the center. (don't forget the suspensions system) I think if it was a 3 wheeler it would look like the aptera, unless it had 2 trunks on the sides which could be unbalanced. AND the cardboard show a 4 wheeler, so... The wheels are CLEARELY NOT at the center line.
If you use Waze at all, people already input the presence of potholes. As we move towards highly smart cars, which is what a Tesla is, it is not too difficult to see a future where the cars or drivers note the pothole or fault in the road and the local government or counties use the data to direct their repair crews to those sites. Once repaired, users or the repair crew themselves remove reference to the pothole/fault. So if the cars are automated, they are potentially already alerted to an upcoming pothole and looking to avoid it. The potential of smart cars is mind boggling. Everything from talking to one another, talking to traffic signs and signals, the improvement in capacity and safety as a result of the interconnectivity is awesome to imagine. Even pedestrians and pedestrian safety. Mobile phones are becoming more and more prevalent in society. What happens when you are walking on the side of the road and your mobile is a walking beacon. If you cut a path towards the road and look like crossing, smart cars can see the movement and within an instant dtermine if there is an issue and they need to perform an evasive manoeuvre. Who knows how far all this can go.
3 wheel vehicles don't have cargo space, so all photos what we saw from Tesla was 4 wheeled, because in one you said is 3, they put suitcases and this would not be possible if wheel would be in center.
Very thought provoking ideas and points. I wasn't aware of the regulatory advantages of a 3-wheeler. Elon is such a perfectionist, it would be very difficult to draw the line on innovation and stick with tradition. I had proposed luggage space in front instead of a windshield earlier. Passengers don't have a front window in a plane or train and very limited front view in a taxi. A monitor up front could display a camera view of the outside or games or other entertainment.
Just split a single wide rear wheel into two wheels at half the width, when 4 wheels are required to avoid restrictions. If the single rear wheel can turn, the car can pivot around the center of the front axle, & turn in place i.e. “turn on a dime”.
Great content. I live in NYC and the quality of life has dropped tremendously with the advent of food delivery. E-bike people have no regard for rules and go the opposite was down streets, ride on sidewalks etc etc. I would love to see order restored to this great city.
Its really stupid that city this dense and anti car has taken so long with this. Micromobility took off especially in Asia where elecric bikes and scooters are everywhere.
I agree that the delay change may involve the fronk but also believe it was Elon really wanting the car to look more futuristic and cool. In the past he made comments that he hoped people wouldn’t be disappointed by the look of it and that the car was utilitarian by design. He wants it to be a car that people want to be seen pulling up in.
Would like to see Tesla brave enough to consider (at least) Hemp for body panels; as advocated at one time by Ford (back in the day) as strong as steel, yet lighter and far more planet friendly!
My main disagreement is the picture at 3:28. I do not see this as a picture of a "wheel at centerline" even with the overlaid text and arrow. I see it as more or less in line with the front wheel, maybe slightly inboard. If it was at the centerline, it would protrude into the middle of a cavernous luggage area, where in a compact car you would have space for several suitcases sideways on both sides of a car wheel in the middle. I do not accept this.
EXCELLENT video! ALL your suggestions would be desirable in the new dedicated Robotaxi. In fact, many of them if not all of them would be desirable even in an affordable private car! I have always wanted to buy a T-Rex, but even here in Canada it cost about $50,000! if I can get the equivalent of a T-Rex in electric form for less than $20,000, my oh my! Whether Tesla actually adopts your suggestions or not, they definitely SHOULD!!! Bravo. Bravissimo.
I think the cybercab will disrupt the airline industry as well. If you could get a 10-20 hour car ride so you can sleep or work, why fly for 8 hours and pay more? Go Cybercab
A plane going 800 kmph will fly 6400 kilometers in 8 hours.. Even if you say 5 hours of flying and 3 hours to and fro for the airport it will be 4000 kms.. It would only make sense for ultra short distances of less than 800 kms..
Yeah, sitting in a car for 20 hours is really comfortable. How many times will you have to stop? You might cover 1200-1400 miles max. That's a three hour flight, and you can work on the flight, and get to your destination the same day instead of the next day. And FSD or not, flying is still safer. It's an absurd idea. It might make sense for a 200-300 mile trip, when you take into account the time wasted at the airport.
@@darylfoster7944 I see, so there is a curve between distance and car/plane. At a certain point the two curves cross. The longer the distance, tilts plane, but 500 is the mid point. Below that 500 tilts: car.
1> I posit closely spaced rear wheels that carve. These wheels could be quite narrow like a motorcycle wheel. 2> I also posit the body being an anodized aluminum alloy. 3> I can see a rear generator for only regeneration. No drive force.
Incredibly insightful video; I was not familiar with all of the engineering insight behind 3-wheeled vehicles. Cybercab will be a very interesting product!
3 wheeled two seater makes sense to me. Since there is no significant competition in the robotaxi space the only big way to make more profit would be to make it cheaper to manufacture. Plastic panels? Sure. Larger Frunk? maybe
I really like your temp controlled enlarged frunk and it would be amazing (but not likely) That Optimus would be in there, but a wheeled bot could come out to do the final delivery (like a square r2d2 with arms). I could see that!
Given how Tesla's standard design is a strong stamped steel cab bracketed by 2 casting it will have bolt on body panels like the CyberTruck. The only question is what to make them out of. I am guessing plastic of some sort. Maybe engineered for rapid replacement. Retain the same system as the CT with a crush layer under the skin.
Suppose it was to move the steering to the rear- significantly reducing the components. Since it's going to be steer by wire, there's no linkage - and you only have one component turning, you don't need a tie rod, rack and pinion gears, just an electric motor (maybe stepper?).
I've thought this many times (was an early fan and had a deposit down on the Elio Motors 3 wheel car). But, there are safety drawbacks to those (far easier to roll over in a collision than if it were on 4 wheels), and safety is #1 at Tesla. And they're classified as motorcycles in the US (I think laws have changes in some states, but I think some state still require the driver to wear a HELMET...lol). So yeah, I don't think it'll be on 3 wheels. I'm sure they've explored it, but I'm just as sure they've rejected the idea on safety (and styling) grounds.
no window in the front sound intresting, maybe combined with backward seats :D (weird but safer i guess) also would bring better teardrop shape options
The Zybercab is brobably bade out of staneless steal like Zybertruck, with means no exterior platic panals! You get the same advantage of redused youse of bodypaint, and easy replasement advatige. And added strech, with mens as bulletproof as sybertruck.
In terms of helmet regulations, companies like Eleo did a lot of legwork, at least in the U.S., and other 3-wheeler companies are still pursuing changes that would allow them to compete in many markets. Tesla is a large company with the resources to enhance that effort, so I suspect that they could get 3-wheelers that meet certain standards (i.e. full seat restraints) to be excluded from helmet laws. It's really inevitable that 3-wheelers will become a large part of the vehicle network in many places, so laws will simply have to adapt; that's a painful and slow process, but it must happen.
@@longmuskox4194 teslas production Philosophy is always to keep their lines simple and fast. I can't imagine they would build so radically different models of the same car (3 and 4 wheels)
@@Matzes I said prototypes. We will see what production model(s) will come to fruition. It seems to continue to be delayed, but so was the CyberTruck. I think the 3-wheel would be great for inner city and the 4-wheel could specialize for other markets. Of course, the production will be simple and fast, even if the engineering isn't.
Hm I'm curious whether Elon's front idea has anything to do with an innovative way to reduce the drag and/or rolling resistance. For EVs, reducing resistance is beneficial on multiple levels. You either keep the same battery and improve both the total range and the effective charging speed (minutes of charge / miles of range achieved). Or, you use a smaller battery, get to keep the same range but also lowering the weight, cost and still improving the charginig speed.
Two rear wheels avoids motorcycle helmet laws, provides more rear traction, allows a single rear drive motor & dual brake sets. Centering two rear wheels close together avoids most of the inefficiencies of a 4 wheeler. I don't expect the confusion of offering multiple rear configurations. I expect a 4 wheel "tadpole" trike layout with a "dually" rear wheel.
3:18 three wheeled and offset wheel vehicles have poorer dynamics and dont track well in snow and rain. Safety being first, I doubt this will be the case. Narrower tires will yield similar results in economy while preserving performance in inclement weather.
They won’t do 3 wheel vehicles. Not as safe, for sure. Also, the robo taxi platform (chassis) is going to serve multiple new models so the 3 wheel wouldn’t work for that.
Interesting theorycrafting but I'm with those who doubt it will be a 3 wheeler. Seems to me that the delay will be something else. I would hope for some new gigacasting tech such as Thixomolded magnesium as The LImiting Factor explained could be great to reduce weight but who knows if that tech will be ready for this.
Given the CyberCab is driverless, why not fix the front wheels (and enclose them to improve aerodynamics) and have the rear wheel do the steering. Additionally the drive train, heat pump and electrical management could be in the rear with no trunk in the rear, so that the packaging would leave a large, unimpeded trunk to be in the front.
@2:36 So it's like an *Apterra.* Reasonable and would reduce the mass and therefore the rolling friction and energy consumption of the *RoboTaxi* by 25%.
The biggest issue with this design is its exposure to large vehicles (pickup, semis, etc). It’s just not safe unless vehicle regulation changes to allow these vehicles to operate safely.
Great info as per usual. Can’t wait to see what is announced. I think anything is possible as this is the company that produces the future. Exciting time to be alive. I wonder who said that recently. :-)
Four wheels give better braking and handling even if the wheels are not the same width on both axles … I’d choose four, ever had a flat tyre ? Four has redundancy that three doesn’t …
Robotaxi is heavily dependant on its fixed location camera based FSD training data. The formfactor will be more close to accomodate this, which means more or less similar to M3/MY, but could be a 2 door, or gullwing door, but with cameras in exactly same position. Also the drive dyamics of 3-wheel drive is vastly different than 4-wheel, and would involve a major rewrite of FSD. So one more reason for no "3 Wheels". Robocab is definitely a rear wheel PM drive only(could also be dual rear motors? for reduced turning radius and steering on tight corners) for efficiency. So, its possible to have a much large frunk, by freeing up more frontal space. Wireless charging and dedicated charging spots for Robocabs a high possibility.
@2:50 About two weeks before verne by Mate Rimac, i drew a three wheeler because the design makes absolute sense. In 2006 we raced QUAD for GREENSPEED at RACV Pedal Prix, then a three wheeler 'Flat Naca' to finish 4th and 6th respectively! i was given pole position in 2007 on my 48th birthday to set the team's fastest lap time. Go 3 or go Tree!
Since everything is already steer by wire, they could also sell a version of this to customers. To have their own automated small car and since it's steer by wire, you can put in a "videogame controller/steering wheel" that connects wireless to the car.
Most people know (have learned) to turn a steering wheel or apply brakes, maybe switch the car on and off. It takes training (and maybe licensing) to use a video controller (for game or drone), steer a plane with feet, handle controls of slow construction equipment, fly a helicopter, etc. Big difference also between a bicycle and a motorcycle. In a Robotaxi, better for it to just autonomously stop somewhere safe and passengers find another ride.
@@jeffharris7777 lol you are going to lose any money you Invested in them ... Then you'll be like .. I wish I would have listened to those people ...😊😊 Where are the production units ? How many sales ? How many years have they been done with the design ? ... Think a little man ...🤦
What if they removed the steering rack completely and all associated components and went with a rear steer option with a ring gear and redundant motors
While most of your speculations are very interesting and I hope some of them find their way into the Robotaxi, most are unfeasible since we know it will be built on the same production line/platform as the 25k model. This eliminates 3-wheeled version right away and many other things on second thought, in my opinion.
There is a way, with far fewer problems, than getting rid of the fourth wheel. Cutting down on max power and range. It is a EV, this will reduce akku weight a lot. For a transport-vehicle to cut one wheel means less space to use to. A good way to make it profitable is investing in the infrastructure. It could work pretty well in a city. Anything else..we have trains..pure electric long distance transportation.
It's not like they have a factory spitting out millions of cybercabs. By the time their first prodfuction line will be ready, they expect FSD to be more than ready as well
All very interesting just tell me how such a vehicle is going to be practical and usable for the disabled and aged users bearing in mind that the world population is getting older, just look at what people like to drive or be driven in - massive SUV’s that stand higher off the ground with plenty of space inside.
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