This is another test of the new Black Fencer synthetic sabres. We are using them to represent the 1803 British flank officers sword, taught from the Rowarth/Taylor manual.
Moulinets. They are really essential when you have a sabre with some blade mass. That rotation creates cutting power, but it also includes many core parries. They also really increase the speed of a blade heavy sabre. Rather than fight to stop and start the blade, you use it's blade mass and presence to carry it through into a rotation and the next cut or parry.
It's pretty universally shown in historical fight manuals of all manner of weapons, and certainly those that we study for longsword, sabre, rapier etc. It seems most masters taught an automatic response of when someone goes for your lead leg, retract it to the position of your rear leg (or further for a full backward pass), and cut or thrust to a high target zone. Normally head or lead arm. Later on you can see a similar thing when I struck to the head.
I am on the left, one of the two instructors in the club. Sabre is one of the styles I regularly teach. Jonathan moves well and his moulinets are clean, but many of his counters are delayed and he needs more aggression. These videos are a really helpful way of analysing peoples ability as an instructor.
Well it is not that his techniques are bad but he has very agressive style of play which matches poorly against your counter attacking style. I see it alot in my experience in that being too agressive w/o good analysis of the opponets tactics leaves you open to a person with strong defense who is a counter attacker. Moulinets are nice but done too often can become predictable. He ma want to consider expanding his repretoire because his timing was getting predictable.
Jesse Kangas Not exactly, we're in the UK :-) However there are a tonne of US clubs. Go to the HEMA alliance website/forum, a collective of US clubs, they will help you find something nearby.
Jesse Kangas If you are up in Seattle there are quite a few HEMA clubs in that area, they actually just had a tournament up there in August. If you are still interested they should be listed on the HEMA Alliance home page.
Another thing Nick, how would you rank your self skill-wise compared to the fencers and knights of the old days? Do you think you could be considered a tough opponent or do you think they still had knowledge that we don't have?
I think it's going to be very difficult, maybe even impossible to know how to fighters from different centuries would match up against each other. The wealth of fighting manuals that we now is incredible, to the extent that I do not believe we are likely to be missing anything in terms of technique and fighting system. But, it is impossible to say what the quality of a fighter was back then. I would say the chances are a good fighter is a good fighter no matter what period and weapon, so I'd like to think I would be a good level amongst such fighters, but on what scale, we will never know,
I have a quick question about sabers. Where is a good place to purchase a quality sharp saber? Are there any places where you can get a good quality saber for a nice relatively cheap price?
There are not many Smiths who make quality sabres. Cold Steel are reasonable if you are in the US, but they go for a premium over here. Peter Regenyei (Hungary) will make you something to spec that will be very good, for no more than Cold Steel, you'll just have to wait. Otherwise, go for an original. Sabres are still common and easily found for a good price. Many 19th century sabres can be had for £100-200, in good condition and well suited to test cutting etc.
Historical fencing seems interesting so I looked at your website and it said the age limit is 18. I'm 16 at the moment so is there anything I can do besides wait 2 years to get involved?
18 and over is a standard rule, however we have occasionally accepted those in the 16-17 range. If you bring a parent along for the first time you turn up and have a grown up and sensible approach to training, then you will be welcome at the club.
Pretty good fight! I got some questions for you, Nik, hopefully you've got the time to answer them: 1) Are these Black Fencer synthetics compatible with the Rawling nylons from Red Dragon Armories (KnightShop)? Are all synthetics interchangeable in a fight? 2) What (fencing) jacket and arm protection are you wearing in this fight? The jacket looks almost as if it were short-sleeved (?).
Yes we have used Black Fencer synthetics against knightshop, hoiwever they are heavier and halfway to steel. They can feel a little slow when put up against knightshop and they can also beat through the KS models. So overall, if you need to yes they can, but it's not ideal. Fencing jacket is the standard Spes AP model, it if full sleeve, just the padding in the upper arm puffs up and gives the effect of looing short sleeve. They are great jackets. Arm guards are Police Riot ones. I prefer them to any of the models made for historical fencing. As long as you get ones with elasticated straps they are great.
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Thanks for your answers, Nick, but unfortunately I've got some new questions now: What do you think about the Black Fencer wasters in general? I've been looking at their homepage and they seem to have a nice variety of weapon simulators, however the lack of a crossguard at the base of the blade (not the sides) seems weird - does that affect fencing in some way (e.g. the opponent's blade more easily sliding across the flat and towards the hand) ? Concerning police riot arm guards: Are there any models that you can recommend (like the one you're wearing)? I've found it incredibly diffcult to find good ones on the internet that are for private sale. Where does your club get yours?
Hexates Overall I think they are great. The only problem I have had so far is that all of the models I have tried have balanced too close to the guard, but this is something I have been discussing with them and hopefully we'll see some changes or options at least. The sabres here I love, so we will be getting a lot more. In regard to the longswords, it depends what you want them for. They hit a lot harder than the KS models, but are also a lot more realistic. For us that is sort of a middleground between the KS synthetics and the steel feders that we just don't need. If you want to do a lot of drilling, or want something close to steel that is a lot cheaper, the BF longswords are great. And no, the crossguard piercing the plastic does not make any difference, a blade will slip down the flat and hit the hands on any open hilted sword, that's just bad parrying. These are the arm guards we use. I get them from a military surplus shop in Bristol (Marcuss stores). They also come up on ebay fairly frequently. www.deenside.co.uk/deenside-product-catalogue.php?cid=1012|30&pid=2965
HEMA Instructor Nick Thomas Thanks a lot for your insights and links, Nick. Seems like we have to try the Black Fencer line ourselves. One more: When you were saying that the BF wasters can "also beat through the KS models", did you mean that they'll push them aside through force/mass or that they'd break them?
Hexates I meant they can force through. I have not seen them cause any problems, though I suspect they will put a little extra strain on the tangs of the KS models.
+Allistur These are the V2 curved sabre, which only came with angular guard at the time. The slightly curved is an almost straight blade. It's now up to V3 with some nice improvements, and we highly recommend the curved guard, which is now our standard.
Thanks!! I have already ordered two of them a month ago. I was just wondering how deep the curve was, because their website doesnt really have that good fotos :)
Allistur Fair enough. The curved model we use here is perfect to represent Napoleonic British sabre, or Polish sabre. The slightly curved model is similar to the British 1822 onwards gothic hilt sabres.
+doppelwaffen The grip could be improved yes, but it will be complex to replicate anything like an original, the shape is rather complex, it is very easily fixed with simple mods if desired. For such a cheap training tool I really don't think that is a problem. What problem do you have with the balance?
+Academy of Historical Fencing The grip twists and spins in the hand. Black Fencer's swords are perfectly well, so somehow they blew the sabre design. It's a pity because the swords wasters are impressively close to steel. Nick mentioned the grip was too close to the guard. I'd go further saying the grip is way too heavy against the blade.
+doppelwaffen Well I would remember that they improve the designs all the time. I use the sabre twice a week and whilst I would say it isn't perfect, I do not find it spins, providing you hold it low so that the tapered pommel sinks into the base of the hand, as it does on many originals. I would like to see the grip made shorter and I know they are looking at doing that, but it may not be able to go too much shorter because some people want to be able to fit Spes mittens in there. As for the balance, early on all of their swords balanced too close to the hilt. The first sabre (as in this video) was 8cm, I gave some pointers and the current version is now 11cm. I would be wary of going much further than that. An original 1803 infantry officers sword is 15cm, though you can feel the hitting power is substantial as a result. 19th century British sabres are commonly around 11-12cm Pob. I think its about right now for getting feel to safety ratio, though the reduction in grip length will clearly bring it forward a little.
