[TF2] In Defense Of The Wrap Assassin 

epic

Love that you're making dough, but every VPN service straight up steals user info and sells it lol

hey fish which primary do you think it go's best with? (be sides the baby face)

no

@@jolt8133 yes

A classic Valve moment

Like how they hid the "Guaranteed Critical hits" stat on the Ubersaw?

@@Killerbee4712 Actually no. It's just that Medic's crit rate doesn't just increase from his own damage, but also his heal target's. Plus since the Ubersaw is the most commonly used medic melee outside of self defense, that makes it more likely to get a crit.

@@kingbib0fbubyt377 you missed the entire point of the joke. Congrays

@@shadowdragun you're welcome

cool

My guy, that joke gave me psychosis.

Touche

Trueee

A steel rock

"Zenyatta needs to slam his balls in the head of an enemy to be effective"

Baseball, softball, tennis, golf, croquet, cricket, field hockey, ping-pong and billiards: "Are we a joke to you?"

yes because baseball isnt a game

@@bac0ntoast it is

@@Henrex2000 and sarcasm isnt a concept

Sensible Dog 09 said it best The Sandman is a straight upgrade as a damage dealing melee on a class that isn't expected to deal damage with melee. Using the Wrap Assassin means not using the Atomizer or Boston Basher, and most Scout play styles are hardwired to incorporate those two weapons. Also, and this is the really important reason, it's too festive. Using Christmas themed weapons on months that aren't December feels blasphemous.

Because soundsmith said it was bad, and his word is gospel according to the tf2 community.

They didn't because sandman was literally better Sure the recharge rate may be slower, but stun is infinitely better than bleed

However that doesn't change the fact that people who think it's *still* bad are idiots

@@Archimedes.5000 it was, but now it isn't. Sandman is almost useless

I'm more surprised that sniper having any sort of close range combat ability is considered OP, but Scout having any long range damage is considered garbage.

Oh, for years it was considered hot garbage. Back in the day many people called it scout's worst weapon besides the SoaS.

@@BasicallyGoblin SOAS and the SVF aka the RIFT items need a alt fire that does fire damage, I thought something like a flare gun shot for them, but now Dragon's Fury fireball would be better. for the Wrap Assassin, I just considered it a funny weapon, but now I might start using it.

@@Hungeryan I wouldn't say garbage, but you have to factor in arcs and projectile travel time. It isn't as reliable as melee unless you're already in melee range.

@@Hungeryan TF2 Community's opinions on weapons are outdated and/or biased. Pick weapons on your own.

Rolled haha

This is exactly how I felt with the Scottish resistance. "Hey, I like to play with traps and this weapon is both good at making traps and destroying enemy traps!"

I like fish slapping people to death.

@@Vukan.Kos. I like hands slapping people to death. Really slowly

It's one of those instances of impractical Violence that always makes me laugh. Like in that one South Park Game, Butters has a power where he full force throws a hammer in another kids face at point blank range. That shits hilariously impractical.

The scout's Vitasaw.

@@kirbyfreakyt4695 except worse

@@NormalThe7th Well... technically, it's better. While all damage is basically halved, it has a rechargable projectile stunning at long range (It might just crit now...? I thought it stuns after like 7 seconds of the ball being in midair but that's almost an impossible shot), and it's on SCOUT, who could get in to make use of that full 40 damage per swing. The Vitasaw being on Medic, who is slower, means it's SLIGHTLY weaker.

@@kirbyfreakyt4695 i mean , scout has to face a more harsher damage penalty for 15 damage I mean you lose 15 health to deal 15 health , equivalent exchange i guess

@@NormalThe7th Yeah that's what I thought using the Sandman for the first time. "If I hit a light class with the ball (good luck) they'll be at as much of a disadvantage as me and then they're slowed down!" I can only barely take down light classes with the scattergun alone, much less at a disadvantage.

and you know why wrap assassin is trash ? bc Flying Guillotine exists

@@Drawnix1983 it’s here if you want more bleed, or want bleed + pistol Edit: also as a fellow commenter states below this comment, the guillotine and wrap assassin bleed stack

@@Drawnix1983 If you want to give up one of the best items in the game mad milk. Or the very good pistols. Comparing melee to secondaries doesn't make sense.

@@Drawnix1983 and sacrifice Mad Milk in the process?

@@Drawnix1983 if you still unironically have mlg glasses in your pfp in 2022, your opnion does not matter

Well they said sandman was good and Valve nerfed it. Obviously to stop the wrap assassin being treated as badly you need to say it's bad just to keep it good.

@@Treblaine I see... THE NATASHA IS AS GOOD AS THE OLD SANDMAN!

@@shadowsnake5133 chad move

True. The nerf happened yEARS ago, why do people still think the wrap assasin is comparably worse?

I use wrap assassin lmb for the joke

the boston basher also gives you a third or even forth jump if you have nearby health packs, a medic friend or are high on ketamine

@@griss295 wait scout isent always on ketamine? like he drinks bonk which is 33% toxic shit and he drinks crit o cola which is bonk+sniper piss and he's ok throwing cum on his dad not to forget that the health packs proable are 60% ketamine.

...but it's a ranged attack.

@@J4hk2 That's not the point. The comment is about how most Scout mains use their melee as a utility tool than an actual offensive weapon. Besides, the pistol is also a ranged weapon.

@@charlsondemong4922 But the logic behind the reason is clearly invalidated by it being ranged. Not to mention it does more damage at long range than pistol while not actually occupying your pistol slot so you can use both or switch out pistol for something and still have range capability.

Ball

Thank you

I love my ball

Also the crit after being in the air for more than a second

Classic valve Weapon starts out bad Make it OP Small nerf Big nerf Repeat

They always were great weapons since the CS 1.6 days, it's kinda hilarious that the only thing that held down their use was the weapon value. Talk about a stale meta.

The AUG is still one of my favourite weapons though

Oh, the tragedy of SG553. At least it was a fun alternative to buying fucking AK every time, but now you can outgun 8/10 people with R8 ffs (and as much as I love this weapon, it's still a complete trash.)

Hmm, maybe the pros are saying the wrap assassin is bad just to stop valve nerfing it.

Even back then it was still pretty decent unless you were playing on a bugged map

*Cough* Acetheocarinamaker *cough*

You can’t blame us, Jungle Inferno aside, valve hasn’t truly cared since 2015

all of us are lad all of us are

yes, you can self damage with wrap assassin, but 10-15 self damage per 7.5 seconds wont help build uber

@@teshinthai2541 But self-damage is possible

@@dragonslayer7724 ah, yes the 10-15 self damage that is really useful to uber building/damage boosting

@@teshinthai2541 I guess it's more a thing to watch out for than actually helping

I mean, even if you aren’t getting the long-range crits, connecting with both the ball and cleaver can still kill a light class if they don’t stop the bleeding.

Bleed scout

Flava

@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 yummy

Glad im using this combo for long and i will never not use it

Agreed! Seeing him look at underrated weapons is really enjoyable!

In defense of the Scottish Resistance is my favorite video he's made, great series

I believe he said in his community tab that he plans on doing "in defense of the Ambassador" sometime in the future, so there's that aswell

I’d imagine that if the cleaver wasn’t banned,the combo would be fucking everywhere

@@Rappii318 just look at highlander, its literally the meta there

Wow, I kinda hate comp games for this reason of constantly deleting things from games, but the fact that my favorite scout weapon is still there brings me sadistic joy.

@@keithbrannon251 it's the sad consequence of comp tf2 being fundamentaly different from pubs That doesn't mean it's a bad mode, far from it, is just that obviously using a weapon designed with 24 players in mind in a mode with only 12 or 18 players is gonna make them super busted. And even then, it's not like the comp community WANTS to ban weapons, in an ideal world every weapon that isn't busted on a technical level would be allowed, but I don't want to get into competitive balancing discussion as that's a touchy subject that Fish has already talked about pretty nicely

It's fun but not viable against any half decent player.

they are more likeley to shot you to death before you even comes into melee range, cause at max you only have 185 hp(125 with overheal)

@@teshinthai2541 flank it’s literally scout

@@chairuptop Please never repeat that word again

any competent player can deal with that. just because a gimmick can work doesn't always mean it's viable. fists of steel+steak can get some kills but it doesn't make steak good.

average 2fort corner

It’s the equipvalent of getting punched both in the dick and the face

Honestly, using the Wrap Assassin and Guillotine for the standard ranged flava can be improved if you have the Shortstop! Along with that devastating 8 ticks of damage, you can pepper your enemy as they flee from the battle.

It's all about stacking as many stats on the HUD as possible. The *holy meter trinity* is no laughing matter.

Make it double. -16 dps ticker. The wrap assassin and the cleaver deal -4 damage every HALF a second. Add them up, multiply it by two, and you've got a ranged cancer cannon. That sounded way worse in execution.

a single bleed is already 8 dps, since it ticks twice a second, so stacking these gives you 5 seconds of 16 dps

The atomiser is banned in 6’s isnt it?

@@donaldmacisaac8479 was about to comment that

@@donaldmacisaac8479 Yeah. If it wasn't then most scouts would use the Atomizer over the Basher.

@@donaldmacisaac8479 its actually unbanned now, it was banned before be it used to damaged you when you triple jumped making it a more useful boston basher, its now a mobility tool these days

@@donaldmacisaac8479 The atomizer is not banned. Gonna copy+paste this to the others that ask as well.

Oh my lord, I used to do that too..! I called it the Christmas Vampire as well.

nice pfp lol

@@chicoscience502 The meeting of the Gigachads

probably not what you mean, but he probably *knew* that, just misspoke

The way it is listed on the weapon is wrong. It isn't saying -35% damage, it is saying 35% damage, so -65% damage.

@@turtley8581 Yeah, he did probably does know, just messed it up somewhere in the scripting/editing process.

What nightwing said, he's just saying what % of the stock bat damage the wrapper does on hit

@@damnation4562 "It deals minus 35% base damage" -fishstickonastick. So no. He is not saying g what % off stock it deals.

To be fair, you can do the same with the Boston Basher. But still with the Wrap Assassin is easier to do so still fuck spies

Bleed is kind of a weak effect on spies... but it still EXISTS.

@@kirbyfreakyt4695 Tribalmans Shiv: What? No. No! Its totally working against spies bleed is so useful! Right?

@@kirbyfreakyt4695 Wrap Assassin's bauble has a small area of effect and is a ranged weapon, so you don't even need to get close or land a direct hit

@@alargeredlizard3003 Right? Southern hospitality: R-right...?

Will definitely give it a shot with the BFB

That actually sounds really fun. I'll have to try that

your epix

Cool i found this comment

*Follows up with 3 scattergun shots, 2 to kill due to the sniper's ping and one more just to shoot the ragdoll*

It's exactly what fish points out, for years everyone based their opinion of every item/cosmetic on what soundsmith has said. It's the same reason why people thought the amby was somehow bad after jungle inferno.

Uncle Dane also called it out in his direct upgrade slide in his stock wrench video

Zesty Jesus also rated it very high, even above the Basher since it has more general use

@@justinbarton717 so many people have bad opinions because of youtubers like soundsmith and uncle dane, especially uncle dane

Seriously, I don't understand how people can't see this. It's free extra ranged damage as long as you hit the ball. It's so spammable you can basically toss it at whichever enemy you choose to fight, giving you an added edge for zero downside. Even if you miss you haven't lost much except a very small amount of time you could have been shooting your shotgun or pistol.

I have literally never heard anyone, ever, say the Wrap Assassin is anything less than top tier. Some people say that the Boston Basher is better (probably because they see it used in 6s and assume it must be the best?) but I don't see it.

@@Acidicheartburn As scout you don't want to shoot enemies until you close the distance anyways since you will trade alerting the enemy and getting the jump on them for like 15 damage with your pistol or scattergun which is not worth it. The baubles travel time negates this as by the time they react to the bauble you are already right behind them and pumping them full. So saying the wrap assassin has a downside of taking time before a fight to get damage in really doesn't even apply! I really love this weapon!

The thing is, being the cheeky flanking class scout is, there are just several more useful utilities that other bats provide (maybe not the bat lol). Atomizer allows you to go for riskier sniper picks/out maneuver a heavy. Sandman allows you to better duel other flanking classes or high mobility classes. The boston basher for christ sake can get ubers out lol. The fan is a very good utility in MVM (ok maybe the assassin is better than the fan). Regardless, there are so many more things you can do with other bats that award more playstyles, whereas the wrap assassin is just... kinda annoying. Scouts can twoshot/three shot 90% of the classes in tf2 by very quickly unloading his scattergun, so that 10 second delay slow damage buildup just isnt as effective when entire duels/fights dont even last as long. Its not a bad bat, but its also not as gamechanging than some of scout's other melees.

@@Killerbee4712 and the wrap assasin has ranged bleed. ill take ranged bleed please.

Why?

thanks

@@JessicaMorgani usually fish puts timestamps himself but today he forgot I guess

11:45 Creepy scout moment

add the timestamp for him hitting himself in the balls

exactly, scout is a close-midranged class which relies on big damage meatshots. not fucking whacking your enemy to DEATH WITH YOUR 3 DAMAGE MELEE. EVEN FUCKING STOCK BAT YOU WILL GET OUTDAMAGED BY A MEDIC USING A BLUTSAUGER.

I would argue that even a new player would realize that Scout's melee is trash. More than likely, the people who label the Wrap Assassin as trash don't realize how much of a difference the weapon makes. Doubly so if they aren't good at the game, since they'll usually miss, and when they actually hit all they see is a 20. They don't see the bleed, they don't see the difference it made, all they see is that number and think "trash". They want to see big numbers because they don't need a deep understanding of the game to understand that, and the Wrap Assassin doesn't do that.

the thing is: how can you reduce literally taking your weapons away? reducing your aim? making you shoot slower? I'm not sure what they should have done.

@@maestrofeli4259 I think they should have certainly at least reduced the time it stuns and heightened the distance/hit registration required to ensure that stun. But let's be real, Moon Shots were amazing, even though they do leave you stunned for too long.

@@maestrofeli4259 Maybe something like the tranquilizer from TF2 Classic but shorter

Honestly I think the Wrap Assassin could even use a nerf, but that's a part of a larger issue of stock melees being shit. As for the Sandman, maybe make it reduce the hit enemy's firing and reload speed? I think that's a good advantage in fights that isn't too frustrating to get hit by.

@@catke590 maybe

I think the next 2 he’s planning on are The Ambassdor and The Pain Train

@@Rappii318 pretty sure he's not going to do the ambassador

@@perhapsYoYo it's an in defense of the amby and pain train, not bwa.

@@perhapsYoYo I thought he said he'll do it

I hope he does one on the Air Strike. The Air Strike can be a phenomenal rolling weapon even without the BASE Jumper.

the big youtubers dislike bleed because it's annoying and they spread misinformation so they don't get pestered by 3 scouts with long range bleed

@@themultiversalasbestosdeal7771 it’s more that all the videos regarding the wrap assassin are massively outdated, they came out before it’s buffs and the sandman’s nerfs, back then it genuinely WAS a bad pick, like how the backscatter currently is (as of the time of posting) there was just better options that could fill the same niche.

really, before jungle inferno it was just a worse sandman, but now sandman is terrible and never worth using outside of MVM, but for some reason people wont change their minds about it? a lot of big youtubers before j.i. said it sucked for good reason, but now its outdated and most of the community still takes their outdated info as current day fact

The sandman used to be OP and overshadowed the wrap assassin. Now that the sandman is basically worthless, people still have their opinion on the wrap assassin colored by the past.

Stats in the game are unlisted so players have things to discover, learn & master from playing the game. Unfortunately, some of these things are hidden too well.

In Defense of the Scottish Resistance already exists, one for the Ambassador is already planned, and I think one for the Pain Train as well.

There’s already a bunch of them in the channel

dragon’s fury, soda popper, pain train(?), Natasha, banana/dalokah, quickie bomb, solemn vow

@@nicholasho1595 hows he gonna make a long and interesting video about the *pain train*? not that its bad by any means but its just so boring

we NEED it for the enforcer. I'm upset it got a bad weapon academy, someone please explain to fish how good it truly is.

I have hit a lot of balls indeed (do not take that out of context) but I just dont think a ball that does bleed damage is better than a uber building/min-critting melee. Just my thought.

@@creatorofcheese oh well then i guess thats just your preference then. I quite i enjoy the wrap assassin and i find it a bit more enjoyable than the boston basher in a serious setting. Then again, i am the dumbass who runs at people trying to hit them with the boston basher in community servers soo...

@@monke5866 Lol welp. Also you can make yourself taste salt if you shake an lmaginary salt shaker over your mouth. Im serious, try it.

Everyone: Wrap Assassin is bad!1!1!1 Reality: Wrap Assassin is the third best weapon for scout and in some situations the second best.

@@alargeredlizard3003 melee or primary + secondary included?

As I seem to recall Soundsmith mentioning the stun mechanics and new scouts overconfidence with the stuns instead of calling it garbage, I am going to assume this is true.

Yeah I remember the segment opening with a CinemaSins reference with him saying "Discount Sandman" followed by a ding and a counter. It was definitely before The Sandman got nerfed.

Yet now it is probably his most memorable thing because Clockwork Smurf decided to pair it with the Guillotine for being pure nuisance and bleeds.

@@astralguardian5930 FLAVA FLAVA

@@mewmew8932 FLAVA FLAV!!

😢por sold

I don't really see what's wrong with the combo. I mean, yeah, it's not great, but that's just because the BFB sucks, not because the loadout itself is bad. I'd say it's the best option to pair with the BFB, or maybe substitute the cleaver with the Winger.

He a man of commitment

He did it twice

@@dutchdutchman3633 Yep

he prob meant 35% of normal damage

65%

it says 65% damage penalty in the weapon stats

Its pre-festivized by the power of wrapping paper

Damn thats a good point

I mean technically it is festivized with the whole Christmas wrapping paper thing... but it'd be funny if Valve just added lights on top of that

@@blazingwaters7469 I mean, let’s be honest. That sounds like a Valve thing to do.

the basher is only good for uber building the wrap assassin is just the basher but as a projectile

@@sheenfromtf2 Well yeah why use melee for anything but utility.

@@UsingGorillaLogic Because you can use the Wrap Assassin? You've missed the point of this video entirely.

@@UsingGorillaLogic If you already have another scout on your team with the basher (assuming comp because why would you use the basher in casual), then it's actually worth using depending on the map, since you might benefit more from the ball than you would an extra jump. You see competitive scouts run all three for a reason.

@@spiceforspice3461 I guess that just makes sense I am just a jump addict.

People automatically format their opinions to their favorite youtuber (soundsmith, lazy purple, etc.)

@@poopyjoe7435 the soundsmith thing happened when it was overshadowed by sandman

That was a good one.