TF2: Post  

@@ZestyJesus the idle bot hosters feeling that this might be the end, throwing all their bots in maximum overdrive to make the last bit of money left before getting banned ?

My guess is that the current growth is either mostly or at minimum 50% real players. While people returning due to the bots leaving is a possibility, idlers could be adding more bots to attempt to steal any secret Saxton/gift a pults during this time of cheer.

I can’t watch your videos anymore because you don’t sound zesty

Idle bots are hardest to touch because you cannot take everyone into account and can negatively impact an idle-ing service. This is why those might be almost impossible to ban and may never will. Now to address one thing from the video: probable reason. Money is not the only reason they responded after all. It's a PR nightmare if they wake up with as you said 'the first game to include cosmetics for micro-transactions' to be killed instantly or not cared for. Whether they like it or not they have to allocate resources to TF2 in order to sustain their credibility. This in a sense is why they should now focus on CS2 for the time being as it is a big problem for that community too! Enjoy this long comment. Life is lovely btw, live it

You are in full right to complain and to be pessimstic, Valve is gonna not do jack shit we should deffintly boycott the summer update no questions just becaused they fixed the game, **for now** dosent mean we should pretend the last few years never happend. Valve deserves to be boycotted no questions asked.

I would like but funni number

I've seen this joke at least 6 times last week.

​@@ColonelKlink1965 Start getting 1 Coin for everytime You see this joke so You can became Rich and maybe be able to buy a house inside the U.S.A Just maybe :(

overrused joke

ok redditor

People are hunting the accounts to mannually report them. Vale owns steam, but its not omniscient

They're hiding from People, not Valve

@tiagocf1208 you can still easily find and report any private account though.

​@@tiagocf1208 He refers to the fact that employees can see profile info even if privated by the user

some of them get community banned which forces it private

actual fact.

Apparently Zesty made a comment that was taken out of context by people, and unfortunately, it got enough traction to earn him a poor reputation in some circles. I may be mistaken, but the N-word may have been part of that comment, which was why it caught attention from lots of people to begin with.

It's just mentally ill people going by the slur I probably can't type, so just imagine I did because on any other platform that doesn't automatically deletes comments I definitely would

People don't like critical and logical thinking, they'd rather hold on to status quo than do something radical for once.,

He said "tranny" once and people dont like that he thinks TF2 should be a 100% casual game. They also dont like that he criticises workshop creators

That's because there's little to no blizzard fans left to boycott modern wow classic. Side note: funny oxymoron.

back then WoW was blizzard's main revenue. Now they have other successful games, plus they have Activision.

exactly this. I am hoping this is a turning point and people stop going to bat for Valve every time someone delivers basic criticisms to them.

Not only TF2 but Steam as a whole.

Valve needs to keep the ball rolling or we ought to steam roll their balls

I feel like we won't have to be worried about the ball stopping from rolling. I hear this from tons of tf2 players in comments like these. They are all in the "cautiously optimistic" side where yes it's nice th bots are gone but we gotta be careful.

I am not celebrating yet. After all the years I am well reserved pessimist in valve work.

yeah seriously, if theyre unable to then theyre just proving theyre addicted and ESPPECIALLY need to stop

It’s a tale as old as time. People demand change, but they themselves don’t want to change. People complain about shitty games but still go out and buy them every year anyway.

This doesn't actually revolve around money for me, but it does involve gambling. I was a huge overwatch player for the longest time, but I quit because at some point I stopped playing to play the game, or even be a comp player, but rather to open up loot boxes to get the skins. When I realized that I had to force myself to stop playing the game, which was hard to do since there was still enjoyment in it for me

Gambling is mental illness, people who become gambling addicts are victims of the machines created and designed to trap them. A person who has become a gambling addict at certain point no longer gambles for the money but for the motion of gambling itself. We label these people as whales, but they are victims of the people who profit from them. Highly recommend watching this video if you want to learn more: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jQIHqkudgNY.html

is that when you decided to conquer 86 tribes?

I’ve thought about this before

I genuinely believe they started working on a solution to the bot problem but ended up putting it on the indefinite backburner until fixtf2, when they realized that they really couldn't just shut up the tf2 playerbase with wacky gamemodes and new cases full of community shit that they never even made.

It doesn't make sense since with savetf2 they took ~4 weeks to respond. Meaning that they could've fix it 2 years ago. Probably at this time they thought:"maybe we should do something?"

Yeah Deadlock is sorta like a double edged sword, assuming the bots arent fixed by the time it releases; if it has counter measures for the bots and tf2 doesnt, what the fuck? If it doesnt then everyone will laugh at them

​@@crem444tf2 both is on source 1 and had a shitty linux vac version that allows botting, theres many reasons why botting may not exist but as zesty said, it already has cheaters before it got even released, let alone announced

@@SrMadru It's on Source 1, Has a shitty port, Implemented numerous mechanics that make botting easier (Party Q) Is largely dead from both a development and player-base perspective and the only defense the game has is VACC, an Anti-Cheat that hasn't been updated in over a decade and doesn't even have a true project lead in charge of it anymore.

Better yet, hope nobody buys the game. Boycott it, abstain from purchasing, whatever it needs to be called- don't buy games that make the player into the product.

A true boycot would include people not playing the game at all and moving on to something else but these addicts can't do that..

​@@panthekirb7561 that's stupid, the servers take money to run, people playing on the servers, but not giving valve a dime, increases their net loss

But...there's still plenty of people that are not willing to spend money on the game yet

@@iizepic9788 Its a gain for the playerbase though

"But how am i going to feed my gambling addiction now?"

o7 Thank you for your service

that moment when the Peoples Republic of China Saves tf2

A warehouse full of homeless people who manually ban steam accounts

+100 social credit

Secret Valvitary sweatfortresses are the true anti cheat.

There is an epidemic of weebs in this scene and nobody is talking about it

The amount of anime girls of questionable age as pfps with male voices in vc is way too damn high.

@@TheSuperappelflap it always have been

bro you dont even have to look outside of this video he's got a booby pyro mod

@@TheSuperappelflap gamers and weebs go hand in hand that’s how it has always been

Story as old as time. Happens to every good game (except for bot part, obviously)

happened to minecraft

Ah yes, when saying anything remotely negative and critiquing the game is "doom posting", I don't understand why these people defend Valve with their lifes like they're getting paid for it

What happened to minecraft? Toxic positivity? But half of community is always talking about mojang's fails... ​@@afro4059

@@c0smic959 They defend Multimillion Dollar Company which can't do basic things more fiercely than their loved ones lol

oh shit hi chara

Valve employees when William Edward Staub presents them with his latest invention in 1968

All employees at Valve found passed away after one of them discovered Breathing was 'Treadmill Work' "Why should I breathe if, in a few seconds, I will just have to do that again?" -Valve Employee

I'd wipe my ass on a treadmill, like a sanding machine

wipe their bussies

Fair point.

for cosmetics without halloween restriction and cosmetics that doesn't scream "halloween" nor "Christmas"

good one

Yeah, we're not gonna repeat the cycle again now, hope the tf2 community is smart enough to understand

right, a permanent solution, which is what exactly?

@@Helperbot-2000 hmm, maybe keeping the cheating bots out of the game? (oh no, treadmill work)

@@jockin learn to read please, i asked what the solution was, not the end goal that solution is supposed to fix. oh no, you dont understand what they mean when they say treadmill work, what a fucking surrise

@@Helperbot-2000 proper anti-cheat? Valve actually maintaining the game regularly so that this bot crisis doesn't spiral up again?

But how will we know this? What will be the thing that shows they will stay on the treadmill?

​@@thatguythere6161valve being on a treadmill

Sadly Itll be like keyless crates in halloween

​@@thatguythere6161 A long-standing and committed effort to upkeeping the game; simple as that.

You do realise that the talk when John McDonald said that line, he also said they Valve does do treadmill work and that it's important work but that the issue is cheaters constantly evolve and you're in a constant arms race with them, right?

Lets go gambling!

I've spent 0$ on TF2 in the 10 years that I've played the game.

See here's the problem with your complaint... We're normal people. Why do we care about downvotes? Why are we even on Reddit to begin with when the corp that owns reddit is even more corrupt and evil than Valve?

@@koalabro6118 Ironic writing that on RU-vid, now innit?

It could be, maybe possibly even nine dollars

this might be a far stretch, but it could even be ten dollars

Maybe 10 if we’re getting crazy

@@soygacho7945 Not that far of a stretch compared to what the conspiracies are saying about the whopping 11th dollar TF2 made for valve...

it was obviously a typo, the lowest amount they could've made was probably eleventeen dollars at the minimum, but thats just a guess

Most fun I’ve had in ages

Enjoy it while it lasts, it wont be like that forever.

I just had a great match kritz gambling with a god tier random heavy, no bots and infinite fun

Enjoy it while you can, the bots are already back in European Servers.

@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 they're already back in Europue.

Exactly

The fact that they literally had their own "csgo" update with the contracts and weapon skins, introducing an already existing feature in the game (strange weapons but now it's stat clock or whatever) and nobody saw this as a money-grabbing scam is beyond me.

It blows my mind that most people seemingly don't realize this about Valve. They popularized loot boxes and microtransactions, they hold a monopoly on selling PC games, they make millions per year from getting kids addicted to gambling, they've basically abandoned all of their game series, and yet people still treat them as "one of the good ones" of video game companies? They deserve no leniency here. I'm glad that big channels like this are talking about the problems with their games, and what needs to be done to deal with them.

On the game front? I only hear good things about Valve's earlier games, and rarely hear about anything good about their newer games. On the platform front? Valve is probably one of the most decent platforms for getting games, and definitely the most decent major platform for getting games. (Even more so for computer games) Nintendo keeps their games to themselves and their online service is apparently awful. Xbox is either dead or dying. PlayStation is owned by Sony, and security is a problem. I don't know what's going on with Epic Games, but they're owned by what looks to be a much greedier company than Valve. Otherwise it seems that they would normally be a decent competitor. Valve honestly runs steam pretty well on the consumer's end, and while I think that their cut from developers is a little high they definitely know how to keep their consumers at least somewhat happy. Plus extra features like the steam workshop (which I don't think I've seen any company even try to do besides Bethesda) and frequent sales make them better than their popular peers. Key word: popular There's probably a lot of smaller game hosting websites out there which could become real competitors to steam if they got popular and funded enough... But right now they aren't popular or funded. Honestly if one of them got big enough to rival steam then I think it would be positive for both websites due to them both having to innovate to better the other. Oh and on the Valve gaming stuff, I'd say they've become lazy and stagnant on that part, and are basically coasting off of the success of their website. But by no means is Valve THE original lootbox company. Loot boxes had been in western audiences for about a year before Valve introduced them to TF2. EA actually beat them to the punch with adding loot boxes to FIFA 09. Eastern audiences had "loot boxes" (they weren't called loot boxes, but were basically the same thing) way before the west too (MapleStory to name one game that had them). This isn't to say that Valve isn't one of the first western companies to add loot boxes to their games, but they definitely aren't the original. I think comparing Valve to EA is in bad faith, though. If you want a specific weapon or item then you can just buy it off of the marketplace without ever engaging in loot boxes (unless if it's a rare item (which are cosmetics) in which case you'll have to sell your house and all of your body parts to be able to afford it). With EA you're likely going to HAVE to engage with whatever loot box mechanics they stuffed into their games to either be on par or to actually be able to play the game. EA will nickel and dime you every step along their games, while Valve doesn't force you to spend that much extra money unless if you want to. TL;DR Valve's modern games suck but people like them for their website. Also comparing them to EA either oversells how greedy valve is or undersells how greedy EA is.

they’ll keep trying too, with their “weapon” being “lul hes a biggot!”

Mah heckin transphobia

@@darthgamer9861 as someone who's not up-to-date anymore on the community, why do people accuse him of being a bigot? i've been curious as to why people say he's a bigot for a while now - i dont expect a whole summary, but i'd like to be directed to a specific post or something that can clear things up :D

@@whilemycookiegentlycrumblztoo be honest I’m not entirely up to date on the details myself as I tend to only follow people on youtube rather than Twitter.

I have been convinced he was toxic for "attacking" workshop creators. Only to find out it was just fair constructive criticism. He is in his right to express his dislike for certain items

One thing i can appreicate about zesty is his honesty even if its something people dont wanna hear

well i mean he is still correct its just we were clueless.

Plenty of people already have. Obviously it's not everyone but no shit it's not everyone. People are still not spending money on the game, myself included

The whales are the problem pray for them

the movement was started by an mvm gambling addict who never brought up boycotting so he could keep gambling

Doesnt mean you stop yourself. The smallest profit at the wrong time can make all the difference

**COUGH** **COUGH** wheezy...

That's the thing, it just "feels" like it. We didn't accomplish much

No long-term fix plans have been announced. That's what we want.

I has always been on valve

Weezy was against the idea of a monetary boycott until yesterday. The biggest mistake of this shit was giving the movement face leaders instead of just hurting valve where it really matters. Like titanfall 2 or apex didnt need people or ecelebs to back it up

​@@bensadfleck9972Titanfall fans aleady had a workaround of their own for the game, and the devs responded once the Titanfall problem bled over to Apex.

What?

@@comando1762 Essentially what the commenter is saying is that ShorK commonly works with TF2's voice actors who don't participate in the movements, so his involvement in something that could lose Valve money would also hurt his channel.

Medic VC and Sniper VC indeed made posts about FixTF2 supporting it and talking about bot crisis, Spy/Pyro VC reposted and commented Shork's post about FixTF2 and Heavy/Demoman VC wasn't active on twitter from may 17 with means your theory pretty much falls to dust. Also Weezy was mainly against boycotting and I don't see him working with TF2 VAs, Shork is not even the main leader he is just one of them.

@@Anakondrai from what I've seen from the first movement, shork was definitely very vocal on reddit, making sure he gets his point across that this is a peaceful protest. He is also pretty active on twitter, which is where a large chunk of the community resides. Also, Robin's tweets are saying that he wants the game to be fixed and not calling out Valve's shitty actions against their players, which is like the main point of the #FixTF2 movement. To make valve feel ashamed that they have left this game to rot, which will hopefully force them to remove the bots. but you don't see the VAs calling Valve greedy cunts. I severely doubt that Valve would have severed any sort of contract due to a fucking tweet saying that a VA loves TF2. But if the VAs started shit talking Valve about their neglect across all their games, then there's a case to be made about slander of their image and a potential termination of a contract. Lastly, Weezy's content is literally him playing MVM, which may I remind you requires money to play and have a chance to win prizes, which is glorified gambling, and he hasn't said that he plays Mann Up for footage. Makes sense that the gambling addict doesn't want to boycott. Also, mentioning Weezy in general doesn't help your case, since he said in his debate with Zesty that we could use the VAs of the game as tethers, which is very manipulative language if you ask me.

but the voice actors, or at least the most active ones like Robin Atkin and John Patrick, did participate in the movement though.

idk, I would say yes if it happened to fortnite but tf2 doesn't have that much influence. Also if they keep servers up for l4d, they won't shut down a game that makes money (whatever the amount is)

I think this is a true enough statement. I've been trying to educate myself recently on business practices, and I've just had a different way of looking at things as of late. I believe, IF, somehow, TF2 had to be shut down, it would create an absurd domino effect. The first thing I see happening is lawsuits. While these suits may not do a whole lot in terms of being valid or earning funds to players, what it does is set a precedent; win or lose, digital assets mean nothing in the long run. In time, I'd imagine companies will begin to see that microtransactions have ultimately resulted in only short-term profits, so, almost as a knee-jerk reaction, press about in-game items will be rampant. Investors are likely to panic, and a market crash would happen in the video game industry. As a result of this, people would perhaps look at a grander scale: if my digital items in a game aren't real, how much of my other downloads do I actually own? In fact, the sentiment around digital downloads of movies and shows, books, etc. already seems to have acquired this stigma about it. (I'm mainly referring to a bit of info about how, if Steam were to go offline or shut down, a large portion of most players' libraries goes with it. While this is unlikely right now, imagine TF2 shuts down and the games market goes with it. Why would Steam be kept around?) The point with this is that it would affect the technology market at that rate. Of course, this is all hypothetical, heresay, imagined scenarios, but who's to say that this wouldn't happen? In this same vein, imagine if consumers won their hypothetical lawsuits against Valve. This would trigger, as Zesty put it, a seismic shock of negative sentiment toward the digital market. And, again, this would in time bleed into the tech market as a whole. Thinking about this on such a scale really makes me wonder, however. How bad could something like this truly get? Obviously, I'm spitballing arguments, making up scenarios, and, overall, not really educated on this. But if I, a random dude across the internet, with only a small bit of knowhow and some thinking skills, am able to conjure up this sort of idea behind what would to a near-17-year-old game, where ~70% of its player count is botted activity, it really puts it into perspective; this really could be a huge event, fixTF2 that is. Counter-Strike could have had this happen some years down the line. Imagine the shockwaves then. If there's one bit I want a reader to take from this, it's this: Team Fortress 2, if it were to be treated like a bomb, seems to be ticking. Valve aren't demolitions experts, either. If this "bomb" were to blow, the metaphorical fallout could affect technology as a whole. Of course, I'm being dramatic. TF2 is funny 2007 hat game. But, at the very least, consider what could happen from treating a digital asset like it has value beyond the binary that makes it up. Anyway, I'm done, thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

LOL

What the dog doin

More like SaveTF2 was looking at Valve with puppy eyes

@@orangejuice8279 as is fixtf2

@@pootispiker2866 if SaveTF2 is looking at Valve with puppy eyes, FixTF2 is an extremely drawn out growl

I mean they were the one who cut us off from the copium of the twitter post and made us aware tf2 was dying

The toxic positivity is still there mind you, kinda prevalent on twitter and, ughhh... Reddit. But otherwise it's been getting better. I mean, around winter update last time, a workshop creator tried to falsely accuse Zesty of being a pdf file, (because Zesty at some point played a gacha game) I confronted the bozo in dm's and he basically said that he does not even truly believe what he says and thinks it's "funny". Funny to accuse a real human being with a following of people who might be stupid enough to believe you that their favorite creator is a pdf file. Whoever was the person that had a quote that went like: "People are getting too comfortable with shitting on others and not getting punched for it" was a prophet, because this anonymity shit only keeps getting worse

im glad zesty isnt taking credit for anything because the reason savetf2 and fixtf2 are a mess is because of the focus on youtubers and that would still end up the case if he decided to become leader or something

I don't understand the mindset that the first fixtf2 movement didn't work. It got a response out of Valve and a huge number of changes that greatly helped the bot issue. It didnt FIX the game, but it enacted Valve to do something. Once again, the community made a big movement and once again Valve did something. We just have to wait and see if they'll continue to work on preventative measures. Why is everyone acting like this was a complete and total failure? Why is everyone acting like its our fault for not "protesting correctly" and harboring "false positivity?" The only thing this video is doing is fueling community infighting. Sure, boycotting will help push the message that we want change, but I think already pretty fucking clear to Valve that we want change. TL;DR, "False positivity" isn't the problem. Its the bots that are the problem. We don't need to turn on eachother.

​@tranquil3727 It enacted valve to pull a PR move and slap a bandaid, ban a couple cheaters, and continue the status quo because "big wholesome Volvo cares, guys! They want TF2 fixed as much as we do, just gotta be wholesome 100 chungus uwu". The reason the old SaveTF2 didn't work was because we (until the recent ban waves) were STILL suffering the same issues that we have been since Jungle Inferno dropped (really even before Jungle Inferno, valve servers had spinbots from day one of Meet your Match)

Spoiler: it doesn't

Its not like there is some """huge""" update, with you know, content other more than just new shiny slot machines.

Valve does need more toilet paper, sure.

That printed petition will just be more trash for the custodians to throw away lmao

We might as well try.

They're gonna try every single method except not playing the game at all

This was always going to be the reality of the situation though. No matter how hard we protest, we cant really force valve into "working harder." All we can do is make our voices heard and hope Valve is able to find a solution. I don't really think its a matter of us not protesting loud enough or hard enough yknow?

Cheats, not bots

It's a closed beta

@@sufficient4834 alpha*

@@sufficient4834 it's closed pre alpha wdym

to be fair it usually happens with live services games and gacha games. games that are usually played by this audience.

It actually happened but OK keep talking out of ur butt..

Except that actually happens to a lot of multiplayer games Literally watch any DOAG video and like at least a quarter of those dead games were shut down because they didn’t make enough money.

If they shut down a game, just play another game duh 🙄. Spend money on that new game instead of the one treating you like 🗑️.

@@bucket321 well... most tf2 fans think tf2 is unique (and it is).. and they are also addicted to it so it would be quite hard for them

valve has nothin to lose from it lol, WE have everything to lose, tf2 makes a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction as much as anything else they own, and at worst they could just shut down all support for the game. it doesnt incentivice them to do anything

@@Helperbot-2000 Friend, millions upon millions of dollars is STILL millions upon millions, even if it may be less than billions. Don't lose the forest for the trees; Yes, Valve rakes in literally 13 billion USD anually. Yes, TF2 rakes in literally 0.1% of that at most. But at the end of the day, $8-15million is still $8-15 million.

The amount of money isn't the point. Even if it's just a drop in the bucket, the more people that stop giving Valve money for a service that barely works, the better. Yes, we've seen fixes recently, but don't let the bare minimum placate you.

​@@JagEterCoola ... Millions? Since when is it millions?

@@Helperbot-2000 They cant shut down support for the game. It has community servers. If Valve try to shut it down, worst they can do is shut down casual and take down the master server (through which your computer downloads the list of community servers). Then someone will put up a new one that Valve doesnt control. People have done that for far less popular games once the publisher shut down the servers. And if they take the game off Steam, well, there are other ways to procure software on the internet...

True , still hella money for a game this old

That's still good for an older game

You all didn't get the joke, I believe

@@LatiosGigetto 8 dollars. and don't forget the quarter!

​@@Thomas_Angelo you sir are a fish

damn so I really did smell a rat reading that comment of his.

W

My fuarking hero

A WOMAN?

As a gentleman would

erm what the based

Idk man soldier mains are known to have ridiculous spending habits on this game

*Laughs in broke*

for real i've been laughing at that for about 10 minutes now lmao

I love doing that lmao, everytime I know I’m not making it out alive I gotta hit one last taunt

Your comment said so much, and so little at the same time

The CS community is barely a community tbh. I think that's why

​@sorrydudebros True, but not because there isn't comraderie, but because there's so many players that any attempt at an organization would only be done by like 2% of users.

bro they dont need to start it since its valve favorite child there has been less cheater and spinbotting

It's too early for that. While the game is in a bad state it's not nearly as bad as tf2's neglect. Give it like 2 or 3 years and we might see something happen.

iirc I remember seeing a few videos on a potential start to one

AY YOO

Pyrocynical back at it again

did you see the cut off prevention in the last seconds

@@PinkIceCreamTruck every youtuber does that when they die

Boobas

Boobs jumpscare

bro got flashbanged

me too lmao

I thought I was watching Zesty not Pyrocynical 🤔

"wiping Valve's ass for them" *showing FemPyro ass*

5 years of neglect tends to do that

agreed. if this becomes consistent, only then will I offer a slow clap to Valve because they should have taken care of this when the bots started appearing in 2018.

Makes sense, valve has been known to use TF2 as a guinea pig to test new shit before they abandoned it

There is no anticheat... its just manual hwid bans by valvvo

Damn never thought of that. Also I believe that now we should encourage valve to more and more. Like: "yeah damn that's good, but it's not enough and you can do much better."

🔥🔥🔥

Yep we sure did.

Not yet.

*hundreds of servers burning in the background*

the match havent ended yet keep fighting

SlopJesus

the realest

AI- Automated Indians

*900,000 janitors

Pajannnies*

SAAR DO NOT REDEEM THE BOT

SAAAAAAAR DO NOT REDEEEEEEEM

Return to the upgrade station before they return.

Another good hitter might be playing fan mods like TF2 Classic or Pre-Fortress 2 instead of the original TF2 and actively promote them as the alternative, draws a lot of parallels with the WoW situation since people there also moved to unofficial "better" ways to play the game (private servers)

a man can only dream

​@@PentaromaLMA0a MANN

Keep dreaming, i gave up long ago

@@PentaromaLMA0 mann*

Not gonna happen. Not any time soon anyway

There's probably something in the terms of service that specifices players never actually legally 'own' the digital goods

@@lachlank.8270 Terms of Service aren't actually legally binding.

at the very least ... it will definitely look bad on them for the foreseeable future.

Watched the video award (rare)

"You see this? Yeah? This is sand! It's sand! You know what it's gonna be a hundred years from now?" "IT'S GONNA BE SAND! YOU LIVE IN A F*CKING DESERT!"

I just snatched that memory back, thank you for bringing it up😂

It's a fucking 17 year old game my dude.....shit they coulda just dropped it like other companies do. Like holy shit I do not envy having to delve into that spaghetti, fuck that.

​@@OfLanceTheLonginusLeave the multibillion dollar company alone...‼️‼️‼️‼️

@@iv0453 “Don’t be mean against my 17 year old game :((((“

@@iv0453 17 year old code that no one wants to touch with a 10 ft pole

​@@OfLanceTheLonginusa game being old and full of old code is no excuse for not maintaining it in the slightest stop defending valve and their poor actions

honestly though I see this attitude of live-service games more often now, so who knows what sort of new lows will be accepted. It is everywhere.

the fact that the gas passer extinguishes teammates lmao

Shut up

New Mode:Players Vs BOTS

ostracizing does help though, especially when you can see Valve's bad consumer treatment across their other games - it is not a habit you should want to see. I agree it is not the main point of a boycott.