TF2's Stair Problem 

Translate to English “Stair-ghetto queues”

fard-getti

Ba dum tss

Quake physics saying hello

Stairway to Pootis

underrated comment

Yeah, i don't think we have to """fix""" them if they are clearly just canonically accurate

Thank you Abraham Lincoln

Thank god for Abraham Lincoln and his invention of stairs.

Abraham Lincoln, the first Pyro and the first man to create stairs!

💀

💀

🏴‍☠️

☠️

🩻

The Americans with Disabilities Act salutes you!

This is a pro-ramp agenda and we will not follow silently

should we tell him

Did you watch more than 5 minutes?

guys he meant literally replace them with ramps so that you don't have to use clip brushing at all, which makes the appearance of the ramp match up with the collision perfectly, no gaps to trick you into thinking you can shoot through when you can't, decals apply perfectly, the sound matches up, and rockets can't pass through.

That's an interesting idea

Note that a func_illusionary adds one entity towards the entity limit. If it causes issues you can (according to the wiki) change the func_illusionary to a func_detail with a %CompileNonSolid material

@@WaffeFIN perfect!

Wouldn't that make the player's feet clip through the steps

@@deixos2224 and is that worse than player legs constantly being on a flat plane no matter what angle they’re standing on while floating?

I feel that

whynot add a tiny block bullet ramp to the bottom? so rockets dont get caught in that lip, and lets players still experience that bump

Lol I think we all tried that

I think a lot of players aren't going to be too bothered with some lower quality lighting on staircases. The differences in some of the before and after lighting fixes I've seen in LED's videos seem so inconsequential to me, that I think no one but a mapper would really notice. That's not to say it wouldn't bother the mapper, but sometimes "good enough" really is good enough! At the end of the day, gameplay functionality trumps everything else.

That’s how little content is being added to the game

The funny from the tf2 cant be denied, as doing so would wipe out the only hope against "them"

cl_ragdoll_fade_time 0 is a crime

The tf2 funny is a sleeper agent, once you have any slight thought of doing it, you instincts do the funny​@orlandodanielgonzalezalcar3360

"Ayo the pizza here"

I didn't understand anything, and I've probably been playing TF2 since before you have touched a computer. Care to translate into English, for normal people, please, kid? :O .

See, they warned you about the stairs, bro.

IT KEEPS HAPPENING

You told them, dawg.

I'm so happy that people are still making these references

@@IAMStormyNautilus *Refrances.

So giant robots are just upscaled bots ?

@@drucy. same technique as on halloween map Crasher.

This isn’t true in TF2.

That’s true, though it’s irrelevant in TF2 since the game doesn’t have NPCs like Half-Life 2 does so in TF2 there isn’t a practical difference. Since there’s no difference I like to use one for out of bounds areas and the other to smooth out movement within the playable areas (stairs, small corners, simplifying complex geometry etc)

"Bots" in TF2 are technically AI controlled player entities, so the brushes act the same whether or not you're a bot. That makes Clips and Playerclips virtually the same in TF2. HL2 meanwhile, like @@ultr4nima mentioned, have NPCs which are completely different entities. Those can walk through Playerclips.

What about MVM ​@@ultr4nima?

Bot players? No. Mvm robots and skeletons? Maybe.

Thanks for watching!

Lol

Stairs?!? NOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Yup. We should be able to control many more things, but we're restricted to a finite amount of settings that often can't even be adjusted (like how sticky bombs bounce off of func_brushes, there's no way to get around that)

Hmmm, you might be on to something there...

I'm very glad to learn that I'm not going insane! Sometimes I shoot through stairs, and sometimes I can't. Ugh.

@@irregularassassin6380 I mostly try with the machina for sniper. Let's me know if it did get through or not in testing.

@@KimFareseedAh, very clever! I'm terrible at sniper, so I'd have to test the stairs in every map offline to not be a dud to my team. lol.

Yeah, it'd be nice if you could specify each type of collision for everything in the game. That'd be an all-in-one package

I'm glad you enjoy it!

I didn't mention it in the video, but it's an especially big problem on Upward in Blu's first spawn. There's a staircase by the main exit that you can hide behind as Sniper, but cannot shoot through.

problem 🙅🚫

sairs

I'm a Medic main, so explosive jumping isn't my bag, but _dear god_ is it annoying to be running away only to trip over nothing. You go from having a chance to escape to winding up a sitting duck for a horde of angry mercs.

Yeah, those flat parts at the bottom of the stairs can potentially sling you straight up if you launch into them at too shallow of an angle, killing your momentum

To be fair, not a lot of documentation exists about mapping-related stuff.

Oh you haven't seen everything 😉

In Source 2, they've sort of become one of the same!

Yes

😟

I think the same. I do not consider it a game mechanic because... it is not. It's unintended behaviour that also makes no sense. Rocket jumping is more real and intuitive than this.

But what about issues with explosives and bullets?

why does my brain automatically read anyone that says "my friend" with a arab accent?

@@zer_pp Because I am indeed arabic.

Yeah, gotta be at least a week since i've seen this

lol

❤️

That wouldn't fix all of the problems though.

Several people have commented that they do this, but it's still kind of weird considering that you start floating in the air when you're not even in front of the staircase. It can work if you have a stair that is extruded outwards, but if it's flushes with the neighboring walls, it's weird.

As far as what an actual example of what the code could look like as an outline, that's what this reply is for. Keep in mind I don't have experience with Source. TF2 and other source projects could make use of hit detection for when players hit a wall of some kind, similar to how they handle landing. For this to work, ideally, we'd want as little overlap with whatever code for slopes exists so we can minimize how many bugs these changes inevitably present. A lot of code from how tf2 already handles steps can probably be used over when the player or other characters are airborne. So a lot of this might sound familiar. To do that, we can probably check the normal vector of the surface the character hit, see its Y or Z coordinate, whichever corresponds to height in source, and just see if its 0. This ensures that whatever surface we did hit is a plain-as-they-come-by wall. (Or step) Next you can check the vertical boundaries of this brush surface and do some math to figure out how close to the top they are. Because we already checked if it was a wall, we only half to worry about height. If the difference between the player's minimum boundary (the bottom of their collision) and the top of the brush surface is less than the character's step height, then we've found a candidate for a step we can walk up. If we've found a proper candidate, we can do a quick collision check to see if there's any room for the player. We have to do this to ensure the player doesn't get teleported into a wall where to brushes meet or anything like that. If all of these conditions are met, the player can be teleported up and their momentum preserved.

Yes. But also, things like stickybombs have to stick to it and not deflect off.

@@LEDs That was implied with collisions/projectiles. Anyway, I scrolled through the comments and saw some interesting stuff and want to ask if you've experimented with some of the things suggested or otherwise further done more research/testing and possibly found a solution?

That would probably require IK leg rigs, which might be possible. I think a Gmod addon did this, and I even saw the tech used in 2002 in Ratchet & Clank, including responsiveness to the surface’s angle

​@@DrHundTF2 true, Ratchet & clank had that. I don't understand coding but as an editor I understand how it works from a directing and looking for x solution. So I would like to see that in TF2, and in the big update (I HOPE SO) they add it.

@@superbasement4.567 The problem is Valve doesn't really care so anything related to code fixes/additions is impossible. We can only help it with maps and existing properties for assets.

@@fantastikboom1094 Let's mention this in our FixTf2 invasion !

Thank you 😊

It can look weird though

I was trying to talk in Layman's terms

This is what I've always talked about