[TF2] The Curious Case of the Homewrecker 

The developers making Spy: "This is a fun idea, I like how it changes the game." The developers adding a third of all weapons: "Words cannot describe how much I hate France!"

I'm surprised you didn't mention the tendency for rattlesnakes to bunker up with desert tortoises as an example of symbiotic relationships. It would have been such an ingenious metaphor for the relationship between pybros and engineers.

I once saw a spy disguise as me, used voice chat to warn my team and someone started making what I'll describe as "overdramatic confused grunting noises". It's not just that people don't coordinate in pubs, they actively resent any attempt to do so.

I think it is worth mentioning that not only does the homewrecker remove sappers, but it does so faster than any engineer wrench.

I watched a jetpack pyro fly above and land on a rangled sentry without the engineer noticing. The pyro killed the engineer with his flamethrower and then beat the sentry to death while standing on it and circling it to avoid its fire. Probably the most badass and effective things I have ever seen. Unfortunately they pyro did not fare to well against my minigun though. He's still working on that I guess.

I once went onto a 2fort server with an absolutely absurd nest in our sewers. Like 5 sentries at least. I went in as a Pybro with an Uber Medic, and we ended up decimating the entire nest. Of course they set up again 10 minutes later but we don’t talk about that-

I love when people cause divorces and get between relationships- oh wait not that type of homewrecker

It's so bizarre how much there is to talk about with a weapon with its biggest flaw being redundancy. Great video, regardless.

Giving the homewrecker to the sniper would be the ultimate middle finger to spies. Pyro having it makes sense since he is meant to counter spies, but sniper having yet another spy-counter just doesn't make sense to me. Plus getting quickscoped by a razorback sniper who then goes on to undo my sappers would give me a brain aneurysm from sheer rage.

0:12 the cucumbers, surprisingly, don't like that very much and some have developed spikes on the inside to deter the pearl fish Like the relationship between a razorback sniper and a spy Or the relationship between a pybro engi duo and a spy

Honestly whats weird is that not only that the homewrecker is able to destroy sappers, the Neon annihilator is able to destroy sappers too, like goddamn, valve REALLY hates the spy

7:42 This is the single most accurate depiction of how it feels to play against the home wrecker.

The Homewrecker is the kind of weapon you bring in case of an emergency: it's not something you want to actively use, but you need to have it just in case something happens where it would've been really useful.

Just what TF2 needed, another weapon to counter spy.

I think part of the Homewrecker’s purpose is to encourage the mindset of Pybro. Especially when it was first released. I don’t recall that many Pyros existing as dedicated Pybros before it existed. The Homewrecker adds an easy-to-accomplish reward to protecting an Engie, in a game where most people don’t care for their team.

10:10 probably cause the spy saw you, and immediately gave up. 90% of the time that's what I'll do if I see a pybro. It's much more beneficial for your team for you to stab medics than vainly die over and over trying to counter a pybro. Like you said, Pyro is already a DIRECT counter, there is literally no point in throwing yourself against a brick wall.

Okay but consider this: Being able to use the Homewrecker as spy

10:10 No reasonable spy would attempt to invade a pyro infested nest.

A small, but important thing that wasn't brought up in detail with the Homewrecker: The damage penalty is specifically only against Players - Thus the melee damage on buildings is 130, and not 98. Most probably already know this, but it is somewhat important to say.

I use this both because I like helping out engineers, and because I don't use the shaprest tools in the shed. I'm just an expert in blunt force trauma

The Maul's design makes it so good to equip. Actually, it's the only reason I sometimes play full on pybro and not just Pyro babysitting Engineers

One thing I wanna point out, is tons of comp or serious players despise this weapon. Essentially, it fucks over Spy (the worst class) and erases the good things he's done. Spy should be rewarded for managing to sap ab uilding, but Pyro can just insta-destroy it and say "no"

The Homewrecker has always seemed like a strange case to Fish-

Giving the homewrecker to demoman would lead to some insane sentry buster demoknight plays

So there was this one time when a spy stabs Engie and saps his nest. I give him a puff and eject him, then proceed to remove the saps which decimates a push when the sentry goes back online. I also deflect a rocket or two. The screaming and laughter from the Engie over voice was priceless. Made it worth lugging around the Homewrecker.

It would be really interesting to see this weapon given to Demo for the potential offensive capability. Anti building Demoknight is a really weird idea that I feel lik would be interesting to see.

Homewrecker is my default melee when our team has a medic. I usually play offensively with DF and go to engineer to resupply and heal, sometimes when i go back there are those OH SHIT moments when i see everything sapped, that is when i use homewrecker, mostly out of selfish reasons so i can have a dispenser to fall back to. Sometimes i switch to pybro if i see engie really struggling, but i much rather have fun on the frontline or flank.

The thing you have to remember: most scenarios dont happen in a vacuum. It's not usually engi and pyro vs spy. Its spy, and heavy, and demo too. The demo may be the more immediate threat that requires airblasting; meanwhile the spy slips in. Engi can save 1-2 buildings but not all 3. Thats why the homewrecker is needed.

In my pub experience, it’s rare enough to see an engineer willing to hang around his own sentry nest. Asking a mobility-curious class like the Pyro to do the same for someone else’s buildings is really assuming a lot about that player, and how much fun they’re willing to not have.

The way I see it, the Homewrecker allows you to be a hybrid pyro. You no longer have to sit in the nest constantly spraying fire, and instead can still go out and play proactively. Maybe the spy is going for your medic. If you are a full pybro babysitting the engineer there’s not much you can do. The Homewrecker let’s you go out and protect the rest of your team, while still giving you a tool to go back and save the engineers nest if you need to.

I think the homewrecker does the opposite of what people use it for. Instead of incentivising camping a sentry nest, it allows you to move around more and come back to save the buildings if a spy comes while you're out.

The Homewrecker has GOT to be on the top of my list of weapons I don't get. It's like giving a security job a way to literally reverse time. Oh, you failed your one purpose of protecting the Engi!? Don't worry just use one hit to undo half the spy's damage! Cause that makes sense...

When homewrecker first came out, it did not have the ability to destroy sappers, it was just for offense. The sapper destroying function came much later, so the original function of the weapon was never to babysit engi nests.

Honestly the Neon Annililator deserves a video of its own cause it has a near common theme with the home wrecker. *In a bad Weapon Academy video!*

In my experience, the homewrecker is more of a symbol than a useful tool. It’s how you wordlessly communicate to your engies that you understand how helpful you can be to them. It’s not always the case, but I can rely on a homewrecker pyro a lot more than the average pyro.

Just thinking of the homewrecker makes my spy main brain scream in pain

I just remembered, wasn’t “the curious case” mentioned in a stream to be the original name for the Candy Cane video before that became a bad weapon academy? I know “curious case” is a common phrase, but it's cool to see it. Also, fuck, as a severe arachnophobic who flinches at even photos of spiders, that tarantula in the first minute nearly gave me a heart attack.

I think it might also have something to do with mindset, the homewrecker makes it clear what you're expected to do and causes you to naturally gravitate toward the most efficient use of it.

12:08 seeing sniper trying to put out the homewrecker from the ground and engineer watching him is funny

The primary function of the Homewrecker isn't even its direct functionality. Its presence is the indicator for an intention to Pybro. It's a little round sign that says "I've got you, engie!"

I think when the developers made the homewrecker they went "Pyro doesnt have an effective or even useful way of destroying buildings without wasting most of his ammo or even just being countered by an engineer sitting on the other side of a teleporter" and then they made it. It makes sense given the name that its specifically a weapon to destroy engie nests. However i think they also went "Well Sappers are technically buildings in the game. So lets just add that on as an added bonus" and instead of the building destruction being the thing it got known for, it was the sapper removal

I've gotten more use out of this weapon when walking out of spawn and seeing a teleporter entrance sapped than in any other situation.

I have it equipped just so people know I'm a pybro. In hopes that god will have mercy on my soul for the evil that I have allowed to consume my secondary weapon slot.

great line of argument leading into the discussion: why does pyro, spy's hard counter, need another way to counter spy? every class has items designed specifically to either counter spy or pyro: Scout: madmilk and fanowar, boston basher, wrap assasin and flying guilloutine to a certain degree. Solder: batallions backup with crit resistance. Demo: to a certain degree the swords with extra melee range: Persian persuader, Eyelandeer, Claidhem Mor, Half zatoichi, Skullcutter. Heavy: Huo Long heater. Engi: Southers Hostpitality. Sniper: Jarate and Razorback. Medic: Crossbow since disguised spies receive a hit and give a hit sound instead of a healing. And Pyro the kinda bad child of Tf2 classes has: Flamethrower, Degreaser, Phogistinator, Backburger, Manmelter, Flare Gun, Detonator, Scorch Shot, Homewrecker and Neon Annihilator that can also break sappers. there is indeed a slight unbalance issue here. the only thing spy has to kind of fool pyro are the deadringer (ew) and the spycicle and thats it.

0:16 muscle memory goes hard

10:32 usually through fault of the other spy

Imagine you're beating up this guy, hes on the ground, bleeding out and unconcious and you decide "You know what? Lets use some brass knuckles"

& redundancy some engineers leave their buildings spread out more and you'll just come across a sapped dispenser or teleporter out somewhere

The problem with the homewrecker honestly is how it overly punishes spy for managing to do his job effectively, and overly compensates for engineers and pyros with poor spy awareness by giving them another “get out of jail free card”, which in this case is saving the sentry gun or other vital buildings. It unintentionally encourages bad habits from both pyros and engineers, which is turtling the gun and then dying horribly when they get overwhelmed instead of retreating. It seriously needs some kind of change to the sapper destruction mechanic or rework

I think one of the biggest benefits of the homewrecker is as a suggestive weapon. You're definitely right that you don't actually need it to be an effective pybro, but just having the weapon in the game suggests to new pyro players that maybe they should consider sticking by and supporting their engi teammates -- whether or not the weapon itself is actually necessary to do that.

7:02 me a gunspy (Pyro cries when he sees me)

I honestly think the Homewrecker is overpowered. Spy is already the most fragile, most easily killed class- To have a Pyro run in and delete the Spy’s attempts to destroy a nest while/after destroying him with their flamethrower… Absolutely insane balancing decision.

Homewrecker didn't use to have the ability to destroy sappers. It's was only added a few months later

As a spy main fuck this weapon. Legitimately makes our difficult job even harder, with a specific fuck you weapon.

I named my home-wrecker to the better "kneecap remover 3000" I just chase people with it and remove their kneecaps.

Big fan of the sfm frames! Look forward to seeing more in future videos!

7:38 I have been in this exact scenario multiple times and it's the reason I seriously hate the homewrecker. If the pyro, who can easily *deny* any chance for me to even approach the engineer's nest, is away, and I stab the engineer and sap his stuff... I feel like I earned that... It's the pyro's fault I managed to sap the sentry, so why should he be able to deny that?

The worst part about the homewrecker’s spy countering, is that it was added later. On release in march/may of 2009, the homewrecker didn’t have the “Damage removes sappers” stat. It had to manually be added on later when nobody was using it. The weapon used to not have its single defining trait being “I hate France.” I always hated how the way people saw the weapon was “this thing destroys sappers, the damage bonus only makes them get destroyed in one shot” as if this isn’t amazing for destroying any buildings. It one shots minis and destroys everything else in 2 shots, regardless of health.

In my opinion, there needs to be at least a bit more variety of weapons for other classes. An example I had would be another kind of zapper for spy where, when at hand, can zap multiple buildings in a radius. Or maybe focus it more on other things as well like an ubered class. That's just my idea on this matter, a really good video!

In other words, the problem you have with this weapon is "stop, stop, he's already dead!"

I see spy as more of a distraction class, whose role is to soften up or distract the enemy team from the spy's team.

The homewrecker reminds me of the meme "name more iconic duo, I'll wait"

today I found an enemy engineer all alone upgrading his tele exit. by the power of airblast, I moved him aside as I promptly deleted said tele exit with the homewrecker.

It took me one TF2maps test where I was in a VC with the spy I denied to understand The prerequisite for spy to use the sapper is to kill the pyro and the engineer in under 20 seconds, as well as survive whoever looks at him between those two kills and the sapper. And of course the pyro-as stated-is a brutal counter to spy either way

It's even more funny when you notice that the developers give Pyro not one, but 2 weapons that can destroy zappers: Homewrecker And Neon Anahilator

I love that weapon being made to f up spies, cause I hate spies. something that I love doing with the homewrecker is when we're holding the defense well enough I sneak into the blu engie nest and destroy its buildings using, focusing the teleporter first.

Imagine if the homewrecker could repair buildings, 30 health per hit and it'd take 40 ammo from your primary ammo slot per each hit. Be pretty cool.

It's been well over a decade and one-shotting minis never gets old

6:42 The matchup between Spy and Pyro is actually kind of fun if both players know what they're doing. Spies can counter Pyro by using their revolver, and changing playstyle to accommodate for there being aggressive Pyros on the enemy team. The Spycicle and Dead Ringer are great at letting you get extra revolver shots on Pyros.

I like how Team Fortress rewards teamwork and combos. Battlefield 3 and onward punished it. Teamwork strats were either not incentivized with points or rewards, or nerfed into the ground. All to promote lonewolf K/D over objective play.

We also have to mention the neon annihilator which does the home wreckers job but underwater.

You know, with the backburner, plus the homewrecker, and maybe the detonator for easier flanking... Pyro can pull off a half decent spy.

Too situational, but insane in that situation. The powerjack exists and is better everywhere, except where the homewrecker is the best.

honestly? I really like using the homewrecker when I know an engi on my team is new and either doesn't even know what's happening, or simply can't handle everything at once and there's also the use case of having it as an emergency tool when you _aren't_ babysitting an engineering all while hugging a dispenser and holding m1 24/7, sometimes you just wanna press W for a moment, or, dare I even say it, play around with team nearby, and still be able to help an engi in an emergency situation

Homewrecker should take at least two swings to remove a sapper

The homewrecker can easily be described in one word: overkill. You’re taking the class that’s already an extremely hard counter to spy, and giving him a melee weapon that further counters spy and can be used at (let’s be honest) no real downside. It’s just a massive middle finger to the spy, since it can take a lot of time and effort to infiltrate and sap a nest, but that can all be undone in an instant by someone who wasn’t even actively guarding the nest and just happened to be nearby. Having your sappers destroyed by a homewrecker when you’re playing spy feels super frustrating. Having your engineer nest saved by a homewrecker pyro after the spy makes a genuinely good play feels unfair, like you’ve cheated the spy out of the sap. Even if you were to give it to another class, like you suggested, the interaction that sappers have is so specific that it really doesn’t make sense for any other class to be able to interfere with them. It would be like giving another class a weapon that could directly farm Uber for friendly medics, or giving demo a weapon that can headshot, it’s not something they need since that mechanic doesn’t concern them. In the case of sappers, it only concerns Spy and engineer. As you showed in your video, the homewrecker is pretty useful as a building smasher. I think it should be reworked to spec into this role entirely. For example: * -50% damage against players * +100% damage against buildings * -20% swing speed * Knockback resistance while active * can no longer remove sappers That way it has a single, clearly defined role (as well as a clearly defined and noticeable weakness), it doesn’t serve as an additional hard counter to a class that pyro is already strong against, and it gives pyro some counterplay against engineer, a class he’s otherwise countered by.

Even if a pyro unsaps a building that building has still taken generally 25-33% of its health in damage already, damage that pyro can't repair and has now positioned himself next to an immobile potentially very high priority target holding his melee. As for redundancy, the Homewrecker's idea during defense goes great only for Pyro who has to choose between chasing down the spy or letting him escape while unsapping the building in critical health, and during offense thanks to his close range aptitude and combo tactics.

I think you mean “8 of the nine classes are out for themselves and no-one else”. Medics are team players basically by definition.

Yup, it's true. Despite being the pybro's signature weapon, a good pybro's homewrecker goes mostly unused. The primary duty of a pybro is frying frenchies, after all. If the spy is busy running for his life, then the engi can unsap his own stuff. He knows how that works.

But I mean... What *else* would Pybro use as a melee? Pyro's melees already function almost exclusively as supportive roles, and none of the other options really fit the role of Engineer Buddy. You get less healing out of the dispenser if you run the Back Scratcher, the SVF and Third Degree are both redundant to Pyro as a whole, the Hot Hand is more a joke than a weapon, and the Neon Annihilator is just a worse Homewrecker unless you're Pyrosharking. Only the Axtinguisher or maybe the Powerjack act as any real competition for the Homewrecker, and I'd argue both are just as redundant to the play style as the Homewrecker. The Powerjack's healing is redundant when around a dispenser, and a detonator jump provides more versatile mobility. The Powerjack really just encourages you to flank, rather than guard an Engi. The Axtinguisher, on the other hand, is great for combo Pyro! ...except that you really don't want to go for melee on Spies, and you probably don't want a slower switch-from speed when you need to pull off a clutch reflect. Overall the Homewrecker might be a rarely used tool that only exacerbates a flaw in Sky's design, but there's just not a better alternative for the play style. It's benefits are rarely utilized, but the downsides don't interfere with the Pybro's role.

Honestly, seeing heavy one hand the homewrecker would be sick.

Homewrecker, Manmelter, and Dragons Fury (for range, damage, and consistency) is my ultimate pybro setup

I like using the homewrecker when you are still trying to play the game beyond just babysitting for the engineer. With the homewrecker you can still make plays with your primary/secondary of choice and fall back to clean up the nest if a spy slips through. Plus two-shotting buldings is really fun.

The way I see it, there are two big problems with the homewrecker: First, a spy can't tell if a pyro has it equipped until he uses it to break his sapper. The spy doesn't know that killing the pyro is as much (if not more) of a prerequisite to take down the sentry as the engineer is. Second, assuming the spy knows the pyro is running the Homewrecker, he now has to kill two classes under the watch of a sentry gun, one of which counters him easily. Ultimately the Homewrecker is too forgiving to the pyro. It rewards the pyro who failed in his job to keep the spy away, and all the spy can do is switch to demoman.

homewreck being an overkill is what make it balanced -with a good team you will barely use it since other spy-aware teamate will do the job and engineer will unsap -with a bad team it's going to be god send gift since you're going to be the carrying multitask guy of the team protecting against projectile class and the flanck while taking care of building since the bad engineer is not doing it -since pyro is a good supporting class the homewrecker becoming an overkill actually make it balance in bad situation where you are the last one standing by taking care of the dispenser even without medic your team will have heal the sentry will replace any power class your team is missing to protect and the teleporter will ensure your team's mobility in short when your team is not doing it,you will -meanwhile in a good team with medic, power class and aware teamate you will find it suprisingly useless since the spy will have a hard time getting to your engineer anyway at that point you are better off using the powerjack to check the engi once in a while and go back to the fight or the backscratcher to help build ubercharge -basically being a multitask guy in a team that is already doing the job you will have no real job to do but having more capacity in a team whose player lack the skill to utilize their own capacity you will become the anchor of the team

Before the Powerjack, this was my go to Melee

a sniper weapon that would work as a homewrecker could be a funny can opener or a comedically large swiss army knife

Homewrecker feels like bullying spies, I kinda feel that the neon is more fair since it is alike to engi's wrench when it breaks sappers... and even so, it is still feeling like bullying.

As a Pyromain, I find his melees have some of the best examples of what sidegrades should be. The Powerjack offers an always useful buff but gives you a harsh penalty if you're caught out while using it. The Back scratcher is perfect if you want to play aggressive and flank heavy, but makes you far less receptive to team aid. And the Homewrecker as you described gives pyro the ability to help his engineer even more, as well as another out to buildings if you don't use the dragons fury, since fire damage doesn't really cut it. They are all equally powerful, but none overlap in usefulness, giving you a reason to use all of them. But then there are his other melees. The Stock axe is literally the only item in the game that is straight up outclassed, The Third Degree, despite being a direct upgrade has a usecase so infrequent that it might as well be a stock reskin The Neon Annihilator is literally just for pyrosharking (also it's still bs that gasoline soaked players don't count as wet) and a poor mans homewrecker and the hot hand is just kinda there

I think homewrecker would work good on a Heavy

I've been playing building wrecker pyro for several months and it is one of my favorite ways to play him. I hope this prompts more people to give it a try, it strikes a good balance of offense and defence with pyro.

As a Spy-main, I would like to have at least some of your reworks from server to be in TF2. Sadly, there'll be no balance changes in Summer "Update" and I wonder why so. They was able to change Iron Bomber's pill hitboxes, why they're unable to change weapons balances?

It's worth noting that the Neon Annihilator can also delete sappers, though it takes two hits instead of one. So any lurking Pyrosharks can also become Pybros in a pinch.

Honestly the feeling of nixing a spy and saving a nest of a dead engie is too good for me to pass up when I have one on my team.

Pretty sure the strongest force you can have on your side is B4nny

0:08 Australia jumpscare

Feel like this weapon is just pointing out that engie and pyro go well together rather than defining the game play

homewrecker is only ever used to counter spy’s sappers which is extremely unfair because pyro already noskill counters spy in every way and that doesn’t have to be talked about. what could be done to homewrecker: while active, 30% sentry damage resistance take less knockback and push from sentry guns while active remove the ability to remove sappers because that’s the engineer’s job to be alive, and his teammates shouldn’t be able to manage the sentry nest with him dead. not to mention engineer stacking and wrangler engis

Being able to break sappers is unfair to a successful spy who can pull a stab and sap. Nobody should have that ability but the engineer. This shit is overpowered in competent teams

I think people might not have examined the homewrecker closely before because it itself doesn't kill the spy, or do anything to him directly (although you can hit him with it, why would you). Unlike all the other spy countering weapons