Some people aren't understanding the premise of the video- I'm not saying the old features people liked from old official servers shouldn't or couldn't come back. I implied the opposite. This video is about the people claiming Quickplay is a solution to the bot problem because community servers aren't being attacked by bots. These same people often blame Matchmaking with the downfall of community servers when that simply wasn't the case nor would Quickplay solve the bot problem. It's not Matchmaking VS Quickplay video #531. There are/were good things about both.
I think you have a lack of understanding on how Quickplay returning (at least in the pre-Valve server only by default version) would actually fix the problem, funneling players into community servers fixes the major issues and turns them into smaller issues like bad moderation or bad server features, which is a thousand times easier to manage on Valve's side. Banning bots that are numerous and keep popping up is difficult, blacklisting servers that aren't that plentiful is not difficult. In-fact, we might have never gotten to the point of Casual as is right now if Valve actually did what they claimed they were going to do from the start, they had a whole list of "dos and do nots" for servers in quickplay, including things like no P2W mechanics or forced HTML MOTD, but they just never enforced it. Just what sounds like the easier option, managing thousands of bots that can pop back up, or managing a few hundred servers that can easily be flicked away if problematic, setting a standard for every other server wanting to have a healthy population? The problem was never that "Quickplay was when the game was wholesome and fun, and every server had their own community!" it's that just community servers can moderate themselves, and Valve servers can't, but Valve CAN and SHOULD (but in the past, hasn't.) moderate what community servers are being boosted by the quickplay menu.
Not gonna copy and paste my full comment but the there are ways in which quick play could help: 1. skipping the matchmaking process lets you bail botted games and join others way quicker and 2. so long as the game continues players can only trickle in individually, when others leave, which would make swarming those games much harder.
@@LeahThe3th Why did Valve add the Valve-server only option. Why do you think they thought that was necessary? Why do you think that's what most people started to use when the option was given? The answer to any of those questions pretty much answers why it's not a bot solution.
@@SquimJim As I said, it's kind of Valve's fault, they claimed they were going to blacklist servers that infringed on the "do nots" of servers listed on Quickplay, but they never did, their hand was forced by themselves, most of the servers you described were of a few branches, particularly Saigns and Nightteam. Also, I'm like 80% sure that the "Valve Server Only" option was on by default, but I could be wrong about that. But that doesn't answer why it "isn't a bot solution" at best the strongest argument is that "well valve doesn't do shit about bots, so they wouldn't do shit about servers either" But at the very least it'd make it a thousand times easier to do the moderation, so if they DID do something it wouldn't be filled with the logistics of "okay can we do this if so how do we do it is it feaasible on source 1" etc. but rather "Okay, this server is doing the wrong thing, let's bulk blacklist their branches of servers, and that'll make future server hosts unlikely to try to do this again."
buddy. it BEEN 8 YEARS. how long we going to keep this failed experiment of matchmaking system going. Quick Play just worked. you honestly think a system that has few problems is worse than a fundamentally flawed system that harm the game experiences and enables bots ? tf2 quality of game went downhill ever since MYM and no one bring that up. do you even play casual server ? i do because i have no option where i live. also matchmaking as system kill lesser played maps. the summer 2023 add so many great maps that no one play on. everyone one keep playing on badwater over and over and over. every improvement to casual mode that been added. was a removed feature from Quickplay. why are we remaking a worst Quickplay??? matchmaking as system was something no one asked for. i struggle to find anyone who asked for it. everyone asked for comp back then, that's right but to remove quick play and to replace it with casual mode that no one asked or knew about. Valve just did it without testing. we all been brainwashed by competitive gaming hype when tf2 never really needed it to survive. Valve lack of interest in tf2 was because of MYM failure. WHY ARE WE MAKING EXCUSES NOW. are we going to ignore that when jungle inferno dropped. tf2 hit it old player peak but right after. tf2 hit it's historically lowest player count. because when people returned. they found that Valve double downed with their mistake after one year of radio silence an they didn't bring quickplay back. many players left and that why the bots have easier time to ruin the game. less real players. more bots. #Fixtf2 by #AddQuickPlayBack #RevertTF2toPreMYM
I miss playing with my friends in valve servers (I was auto balanced because there were 9 people on blue and 10 on red and there was 30 seconds to cap the point)
Agreed. Those drawn sketches had so much life into them and felt distinct and unique from the rest of the game’s design. Now its all just boring rendered 3D pictures.
Also who actually sticks around on servers with voilate staff? Had one buttfucker threaten to ban me cux he didnt like me not liking dischord chat being intergated and how i said 2012 mods did more then his work. 😂😂
@@luthfihar3211or if there is, you jusy bounce and find something else to play. Like i used to like Slendrt Fortress but thr mods and owner are shitheads and gameplay was lazy so i bounced.
The primary problem with 'matchmaking' vs 'quickplay' is actually what OTHER things matchmaking has brought along side it. Those being: -unable to chose your team -unable to change team -unable to vote to scramble teams -map HAS to change after 2-3 rounds, EVEN IF just to reset the current map
@@SquimJim The problem isn't about people arguing over bringing these things back or not. The problem is * CAN THEY * be brought back ALONG SIDE the new system ? And the short answer is 'no'. The long answer is that many things have to be changed, and in the process many things which, ironically made matchmaking good would be forced to be discarded. One of those is the general joining process. The current system has the server highly integrated with the matchmaker to strategically reserve spots for players/parties to be able to join smoothly. Re-adding stuff like the old server browser integration would directly break this, and bring back quickplay's dreaded 'a match was found'-'OOOPS, someone joined before you, try again'. Many things can be put in balance, and some features from the two system can be picked and chosen to create something better, even if not perfect, but the road is not smooth, and will likely need at least 25-50% the work it was put into the creation of the matchmaking system, work which i wholeheartedly believe valve is NOT willing to put into tf2 anymore
People seem to confuse pre-2011 and post-2011 Quickplay. Before 2011 Quickplay only offered community servers, but since 2011 it was possible to join official servers (or both if the player wanted). What the current system is missing is still features like spectator mode, switching teams at will, autoscramble if one team pubstomps, no round limit but a time limit, no parties (just join your friend at any time), no mmr, no votes to extend time limit and vote on the next map (currently, it is nothing like before; it was possible to vote on the same map or pick from 4 others).
Genuinely, what I do remember from the old old days of playing TF2 for the first time was the amount of ear bleeding ads. I swear, one time I joined a random server and the first thing I hear is 500% volume ad about Polish MMO game.
Yeah, I never experienced that super cool community environment where you recognise people and have chill conversations, it was a minefield and clicking Quickplay was you bellyflopping into said minefield
I like how it "people who looked through advanced options" and people that couldnt find options debate. 😂 Seriously there a option to disable HTML and i remember it being in since 2013 when i would play community VSH and stuff.
Yeah, and actually well working autobalance, that trully balanced 24/7 mildly stalematey feel like community servers had except on official server with no gimmicks. It just felt CASUAL truly as in it was relaxing to play, with not tryharding, almost no steamrolls. Meet Your Match ruined that aspect and it remained ruined like so to this day.... I want Casual mode to feel like playing quickplay did, not for quickplay to replace Matchmaking.
This, this this! And what did they add? Worse versions of everything! No one asked for warmup times, constant map changes or freaking lack of spectator mode! For every "good" addition, they ripped out and modified everything that let you drop in and play quickly!
@@Kacpa2 Nah, I'm personally on the side of Matchmaking is better, but the people that argue in favor of Quickplay forget how terrible Quickplay actually was. It was not quick, you joined into random servers constantly that got so bad that Valve had to add an option to essentially ONLY join Valve servers, team balance was always terrible because you'd have groups of 8 people that are all together on 1 team and would just steam roll every pub, the server browser that was built into it was very lackluster and gave even less info than the steam browser does, you didnt get to pick what maps you wanted to play if you didnt want to dig through a terrible server browser, on match end it would just go to a seemingly random map (determined by the server's map rotation file) which wasn't always even the same gamemode on community servers, and the list goes on and on. The only features that are "missing" that were better is being able to switch to spectator and pick your team but its a double edged sword because it can cause way more imbalance. Matchmaking is straight up better these days and people let nostalgia blind them to the fact that quickplay was atrocious. You just grew up my guy, back then you were a kid without many responsibilities and could play games until the sun came up. Old isn't better, you just miss being a kid. I've played TF2 since 2007; matchmaking is a far superior system.
Quickplay wasn't best of three where people dc after every game because it's easier and faster to find a new game like that. That helps bots to fill servers and ruin the games for everyone very easily as no server is ever full. You cannot even extend maps in matchmaking without reloading the server, unlike back in the day with vanilla format. "But now bots would flood servers completely!" Except they would stick around alone in a server they flood, while servers with 22/24 players would kick the bots before being filled with real players. Matchmaking makes bot-parties ruin games easier You could easily blacklist servers back in the day if they ran obnoxious ads or had p2w or bots and in the end would at least find community servers with quickplay. People also used to want to just play a game instead of wanting to play a specific map. That's why the rotation was useful and made people play other gamemodes naturally or switch if they really didn't want to play some specific map. Or even extend the map they were playing in on top of the normal 45 minutes. Or even if a horrid map came along, I remember being able to vote for another map right away(has been quite a while so am not sure if it was a feature on Valve servers). Now it is competitive larp where you play the standardized best of three. The level system and experience stuff makes people subconsciously play to win which encourages tryhard attitude and generally sweaty atmosphere. Especially situations where enemy has won one round of KotH, and if you don't win now, you know you'll be going back to matchmaking search. The whole game feels more stressful and the system was built after OW and other modern shooter systems because "it was popular". And now that Uncletopia runs the same system, it is the only thing many newer players know about(as they escape bots to there), or at worst older players defend "because it is how it is".(Nothing against Dane even when he runs comp-lite settings. Just not for me). People just want to have the option of playing one map as long as they want before leaving to do other stuff. Now I see people in ctf BEGGING to cap so they can get their exp. And the leveling-thing is just an artificial reward system without any impact, just a "number go up" instead of playing a game to have fun(See OW1 and lootbox system). I'm not sure what is the sudden kneejerk reaction to fixtf2 that has gotten people defending current matchmaking so much. There has been lots of sudden defending of the state of the game and both matchmaking and being anti-preMYM TF2. On top of the whole "KillTF" movement. I just wanna play 45 minutes of upward with same people. Quickplay allowed that, and I made lots of friends with random duo Engi hijinx or playing Pybro for several rounds in row for one engi. Or pocketing one Heavy/Soldier/Demo. MYM doesn't allow that, it's "EVERYONE OUT!" the moment third round is over. And in quickplay even with scramble, there was a chance you could join the scrambled teammate(used to do that a lot when playing Medic). Now if the next match starts and you are on different teams with the person(who already didn't dc to find a game faster), it's gg. You better add the relative stranger that you only have played 5-10 minutes with or deal with it. MYM was a horrible mistake and only exists because Valve wanted to chase more money and popularity instead of making the game better in any way. Please don't defend it by taking the most extreme cases of easily blacklisted servers everyone knew was bad. It's like saying "Overwatch custom servers are bad because I joined 7 RP servers in a row and I didn't like them".
I've seen the exact opposite- the knee-jerk response has been the "revert to Quickplay" crowd in response to the bot problem. But there's no reason at all to believe bots wouldn't target official servers through quickplay in the same way they do it through matchmaking. What would stop them? And it's not unfair to call out the poor quality of community servers at the time because that genuinely was how most of them were. The switch to the game mostly being Valve servers wasn't a sudden thing.
@@SquimJimit's understandable, those takes are becoming more popular because of our distaste at Valve neglectfullness, and how desperate we are for an alternative of the situation in casual, and it doesn't help that in community servers it's all non vanilla servers, with the closest option being Uncletopia which is fine at best for me MyM used to be only a talking point to blame competitive players for things they really weren't responsable
@@SquimJim You never addressed the 45 minute map time and not having to sit on map voting and queue after 2-3 matches. I don't understand why not, it is a huge point of the old quickplay. EDIT: You did mention the 3-round thing, my b.
@@PaintyMainy I did address the timer? I talked about it when I was talking about the differences. And I implied it could come back along with other features casual doesn't have. What else was I supposed to say? That's not what the video was about.
@@SquimJim Well you just quickly mentioned it off-hand so I didn't even remember it. Still, my bad and I was wrong. The thing is, that it is a HUGE preference for many people when it comes to quickplay. So it is strange to not take it as much bigger point and argue why you think matchmaking/casual is still superior even with all those things lacking from quickplay. "What else was I supposed to say? That's not what the video was about." I thought it was about matchmaking being better than quickplay so I expected tiy to go over things that people miss from the quickplay. People don't like matchmaking because of many reasons, and that is one of them and it felt like you brushed it aside with quick "these are things that existed" which is strange. And you can't really add those things back to MM/Casual because it might as well be quickplay at that point. All you would be left with is the funny level-icon to click-spam in main menu when you got nothing better to do. It would be a cool to go over the criticism from the comment section and elsewhere if you do a follow-up video on this one. EDIT: Also do interview people who used to host servers, it could be cool information on how matchmaking affected TF2 and it's community servers.
I think the main argument is that matchmaking makes it easier for bots to join games. They can join a casual server as a group of 6 and basically shut it down. Also the best of three rounds is pretty bad for casual games. Most players will just leave the game at that point allowing bots to come in a fill those slots. If Valve actually bothered to fix the bots casual would be fine, not ideal but fine. Also the Furry Pound still being one of the best vanilla Tf2 servers after all these years is great.
I mean if adhoc qp was still a thing bots would fill in parties of 12 or more instantly. Old quickplay couldn't operate in the bot wave today. Settings for casual are a different thing entirely tho
@@hajimehinata5854 idk why you want to be boring. It like playing Mario Party and expecting pin perfect no rng mess. If you want to play no crit and spread, just go to those servers. Dont force it on people who dont care either way.
12:17 After mym update, some friends of mine who were hosting a few community vanila-ish servers told me that they've lost from 2/3 to 3/4 of their playerbase because the servers were not accessible via quickplay anymore. Even though quickplay system had it flaws, it was much more friendly to community servers hosters than the current system. People want quickplay back because they think (and I agree with them on that) that is the only way to make new people play on moderated servers and not suffer from bots. The issues with quickplay you are addressing in this video can be fixed simply by tightening requirements for a server to appear in a quickplay menu. So overall I believe quickplay can work if done right. However we're talking about a game studio that made artifact and mym update, so Its stupid to expect something done right from them. I believe the best they can do is to made community server search ui not to look like a fucking command prompt.
The quickplay sentiment about killing the community server base is sorta true, but also not. Everyone was accessing servers through the browser before. People were just choosing to play casual instead since thats the way Valve wanted people to play. Also seeing a lot of "restricting" what kind of servers are allowed in quickplay. Again, this was tried by Valve and people still broke through all the time. Once someone finds a way around just wait till the bots make dozens of servers to lead players into and download shit.
@@h20gamez Not to be mean but you are effectively trying to "balance" something like 2b2t where some vanilla ass minecraft people weaponized a bible to crash and lock people out of a server. You got to wait for a thing like TO happen before you fix it, you cant be a doomer over a thing that unexists. So much is focused on "how to exploit it" over "how valve can reallistically fix it" and.. our current system is a straight up worst matchmaker then Quickplay with no bells and whistles.
@@Subject_Keter But why chance it? You have a system where the bots are fully contained inside something and instead want to give bot hosters the ability to run there own servers to ruin players more. When you are allowing someone the opportunity to do something, it likely means someone will take it and run. And besides, the whole problem is Valve isn't fixing casual. Who is gonna want to trust Valve to fix bot hosters putting malware on peoples computers before it's too late?
I think the point about quickplay feeding into community servers is largely blown out of proportion. I just miss the old server settings where maps were played for 45 minutes instead of just 2-3 rounds. This isn't really a problem on maps like Dustbowl where those 2 rounds can drag on, but for game-modes like KOTH it can mean you get to play a map for as little as 6 minutes before having to wait another 3 minutes for the map vote and pre-match timer to start the cycle again.
The most annoying part of matchmaking servers is all the time you spend waiting. Pre-game, post-game, choose server post-game, setup after pre-game and so on.
It's frustratingly slow, and the server is dead before you know it, pls youtubers stop pretending Matchmaking was evon remotely playable compared to Quickplsy EVEN without the bots, it had issues of course, but the work around was literally just quit and rejoin to find a more vanilla servers and there were definetly plenty compared to now
As a kid who grew up on trade servers with a huge variety of custom maps, i feel like modern day criticisms of matchmaking are that it does its job TOO well. Modern TF2'S default queue settings singlehandedly killed gamemodes like Payload Race, Arena, Special Delivery, Pass Time, Player Destruction and even official VSH. People only ever play the "core" gamemodes in modern day because theres so many maps in this game that the default settings are by far the easiest ones to use. My memory of those days isnt the best, but iirc, with quickplay there were no default settings. Just different modes to try and if you wanted an even remotely custom experience, you NEEDED to LEARN the community browser. That is my theory for why community servers fell from grace. Casual matchmaking is so good nowadays that the only valid reasons to use anything else are: >Bots >A firey hatred for random crits >Jailbreak/death run for people who are into that? >Uhhh... Custom maps/sprays... I GUESS?? >A well-populated lazypurple/samwiz/trade silly server if you're LUCKY???
The argument myself and all other proponents of Quick Play I know actually make is very different and two fold: 1. It's actually quick, skipping the process of looking for a game, which allows you to bail bad games and join other ones much quicker. and 2. the more important part - continuous play makes it harder for larger groups of players (bots) to join the game all at once, by forcing the players to trickle in and out one by one, so long as the game continues. Where community servers enter the argument is once you venture into valve's neglect - if they are unwilling to take care of their game might as well let the community handle it. In all other cases I believe everyone agrees that Valve's own officially sanctioned servers are best as default quickplay option. Even tho I myself do prefer community games.
Despite, I'm gonna put blame on competitive: The Comp beta got much praise from people trying it out, but sorta were betrayed when the Casual was made into "competitive" too. Nobody expected or wanted that. Casual servers first and foremost were made to mirror the comp servers and cater to same audience. TF2 only had minority playing the game with strict ruleset like this and most people never had played in a ecosystem catered entirely around winning and sweating for XP. Even now people get mad for tryhards, yet that's what the servers have been built for. ... If Valve had just added Competitive servers as an option in the menu like MVM (I think this is how beta was presented) - I think things now would have been better for the Competitive too. Difference between Quickplay and Competitive would have made trying out Comp exiting. Now, only tangible difference is the ranking as XP in Casual is a meaningless sink. ... The July,2016 was actually the most downreviewed month in TF2 history before FixTF2. It's the competitive obsession that caused Valve to cater to a small minority and ended up killing the reason people played the game for.
And keep in mind that Valve kept radio silence for full year until Jungle inferno (other than few patches to fix the broken casual mode) tf2 hit it's old peak player count but right afterwards, tf2 hit it's historical lowest player count when people realized that Valve. doubled down on comp tf2 and casual mode. if the Zesty bot video showed us one thing. tf2 stagnated ever since. We still didn't recover from it. I know so many people who quit tf2 for good because of MYM. NO ONE ASKED FOR REMOVAL OF QUICKPLAY. Why people are copeing for MYM. It been 8 years. Wake up.
It's really sad how valve made the experience for everyone worse. Comp players didn't get a good pugging system and made casuals hate comp because the system was really poorly implemented. Casuals meanwhile got a worse pubbing system and started the whole bot fiasco. Valves out of touch devlopment really killed the hope for anything great.
The worst part about the initial matchmaking implementation is that it used the existing MvM matchmaking code, which was godawfully slow (as you said "Long wait times for matches"). The good thing, is it forced them to fix it, which ALSO fixed it for MvM. 3:52 - You're correct, there were no official servers back then: just community servers. And they were very hit and miss. Some were fairly benign, running a HTML advertisement before you could join. Others had paid memberships which gave some benefits like priority connection over other players. Even more were gated and you had to be a part of the community surrounding them to be able to join.
I miss not having to be in loading screens so goddamn much and being able to extend the current map. Why does casual have to reload you into the server even if the same map was selected at the end vote?
I just hate that it’s a one and done style. A couple rounds of koth, or two sides of the match and then you’re done. Next map. I miss the map timer. The allchat, the auto scramble, the sense of drop in-drop out. Casual is just not the same
I vastly prefer Quickplay over Casual cause it was... more casual. Current Casual feels like a light competitive mode with no stakes, you NEED to wait a minute at the start of a game for everyone to connect, you CAN'T change team, NOR can you spectate cause it's unfair, and you mostly MUST join starting matches and MUST start with your friends in the same team. Also think community servers died cause the community kinda died with time (but I'm also gonna blame MyM for "hiding" the browser)
I think it's a little unfair to say they died when uncletopia is full nearly 24 hours a day, but having an actual brand representative (Mr uncle Dane himself) definitely helps
@@TheGhostThatWasDane was involved in the campaign to force other community servers to become 24/7 map since he is hosting his new no crit and clas limit servers. its not a coincidence that all the vanilla community server gone the moment he announced uncletopia.He is also one of the influencer responsible for the matchmaking mess since valve asked him and other competitive tryhards opinion when they made the stupid update.
This 100%! I just want to fight and kill not have the match end after 2 to 3 rounds. I just want to play and dip out if the map i dont like comes in. Like look at how Hightower is now, someone caps and half the server gone.
I think this discourse is coming up for reasons such as these listed here 10:21 Is easier and faster to say "revert to quickplay" than explain the whole idea. But yeah implementing the features quickplay was great at (matches not ending until there is a vote to change map, not needing to wait for almost full teams to start, etc) in casual would be the best scenario. Sometimes playing casual you spend the same time playing as waiting for a game, which sucks
quick play just kinda worked and it felt strange to remove it for something else, maybe there were some quirks with it but did anybody even ask for an overhaul? people only ever asked for hats/weapons/balance changes
If i remember correctly, the community was happy valve comp got brought in and was working well but we thought all this junk we "love" now would say to comp. And i remember people wouldnt argue about quickplay to be better.. cuz it never got brought up that much. Like how i meet a person eho believes we should of not when hard on Cyberbug 2077... when ig FIRST came out... cuz phantom librety now exists? Wtf 😂
tbh, i just miss being able to play for half and hour or more on the same server and repeat the map even if the match already ended 3 times. queueing for a match to play it for 2 min because you roll or get rolled its not fun and it is boring needing to repeat the queue process after 2 min every time without fail
Playing since 2009 here. What people used to do was to use quickplay to find servers by the same group/community. So if you found a decent hightower only server, there would be a command that would redirect you to other servers by the same hoster. I used to play on Rocketblast servers. Very high quality servers in the european region. The old system was way better, sure you had to find your favourite servers, but it is still miles better than dealing with bots.
It's pretty easy to see why people consider quickplay better than matchmaking, the game got undoubtedly worse with the update, and that's what people remember. Also, quickplay is objectively better simply because it had the option to show servers before joining. Which means pick a server with the map you want (and people are actually playing it), the lowest ping and even the amount of people you want. I dont really care for community servers but this is a fact that matchmaking is simply not as complete as quickplay.
True, also games felt trully casual like 24/7 community servers. Autobalance kept tryhards in check, games felt stalematey in a good way, it was chill and relaxed as in word casual. Meet your match ruined all that and it never came back to how it felt to play before. Matches end prematurely, usually after 2-3 rounds of painful steamrolling. I cant do anything about it, i cant even change teams to the weaker one to try and fight the tryhards and make it a bit more even. Its truly awful.
@@AnotherLuckyStarQuick play let you select maps by the catagory i think? (Edit: Duh you can change vote to change the map ingame) Also imo our casual is a losing winner since it has more negatives of gettibg into a match to the point where it faster to leave abd reque.
agree with all of this, bringing back pre-2014 quickplay AND dealing with all the shitty fake ad-ridden servers that bot hosters would immediately shift their focus to (making the issue 100x worse than it had been in the past, which people keep failing to realize) is the type of work that Valve has already proven they don't feel like doing. tiny correction though, quickplay was actually introduced with the Uber update, it just wasn't called quickplay (or "ouickplay") until they tried the failed party thing in 2012 and then i guess the name stuck
Bot hosters would do what they do anyways... i dont see how squidjim or this arguement means anything beside.. being like a goblin trying to muddle the facts.
I dont want Quickplay to replace Casual matchmaking. What i want is how Quickplay was to play when autobalance worked even if it was a boit annoying to be switched it TRULY kepts matches equal and balanced. There were usually no steamrolls. Servers run 24/7 so you could stay on as long as you liked just like community servers instead of getting a boot after 2 rounds. Matches were stalematey in a good way and actually FELT casual. I dont say remove casual and bring back oversimplified Quickplay, but MAKE Casual feel like quickplay did.
@@samttk359 Me too, sure it was annoying to scramble it up and got those edgy people who couldnt handle the enemy team having /decent/ snipers. But our current system feels like option Y, bottom of the barrel.
I appreciate the historical perspective, but I strongly disagree with the notion that casual mode is easier to queue into. I believe that a "2014 quickplay" system, limited to only Valve servers, would undeniably benefit the player base. While it's true that servers were once limited by game mode, players could still vote for the map they wanted directly on each server. This often led to faster access to desired maps compared to the modern casual mode queuing system. The quickplay system that existed before still underpins the current Valve casual mode. The argument that bots would more easily take up server slots is flawed-it actually means that players could more easily fill servers themselves. While bots could occupy servers, this visibility would indicate which servers to avoid. The reduction in player freedoms for the sake of bot security is a necessary compromise given the current situation. I was there too, I firmly miss the days of joining Valve doomsday servers and waiting for 3pm-3am for when kids are done playing scrims would essentially load into "Hightower 2." I’ve seen how matchmaking has fundamentally changed gaming. The present ELO system in casual mode attempts to balance servers by matching experienced players with newcomers, but this is a broader issue in gaming rather than a specific fault of Valve. If you look at older games like Halo or Call of Duty, you would just join a game with others queuing for it, and while additional filters can enhance the experience for some, they can also detract from it for many others.
As one who was also there, the big problem I have that people never actually address behind the "revert the change" non-arguments is that the inconvenience of competitive mode's matchmaking mechanics were pushed wholesale onto the much larger casual community and it was never brought back to "normal." You can't leave a team to spectate a suspected cheater. You can't use the "Join Game" button on your Steam Friend's List to go into your friend's game. You have to join the queue as a party and will OFTEN get your party broken up by autobalance. You can't call a vote against a person on the opposite team, and voting majorities are terribly inconsistent. You have to play best-of-3 to get your XP (which doesn't do anything except give you a different badge that doesn't even show up half the time), and not a second before the match ends. Not even mentioning things like map votes breaking, post-game polls on map and match quality that almost certainly do nothing, and team-based wallhacks on spawn screwing over Spies in a way that even they do not deserve. Even after the fixes from the initial train wreck release, it's still a mess that Valve never fully cleaned up, even when begrudgingly accepted as a new normal.
The spawn wall hacks thing is so, sooo so so soooo annoying as spy. Sometimes I have assumed the other team is hacking when they beeline towards me as a disguised spy hidden in another room near their spawn, but nope, just a gameplay mechanic apparently.
I miss the server communities we had back then, most of them fell apart due to the updates at the time changing the game in such a way that broke the features of the mods for the servers that made those servers particularly unique, Intox caved in, combat surf servers don't have a good enough map rotation anymore, the list goes on, skial became D-tier vanilla, blackwonder got rid of their server variety for too many x10 randomizer servers on exclusively like two maps, and many of their features are broken. Nobody has the time or company to really open up a list of servers that cover every niche anymore. So they're dominated by the ones that barely ever put the effort to do that right. Most of us who play on them are reluctant with the choices. It's been six years since tf2 had a no-gimmick vanilla map rotation vanilla stat randomizer server. they all got reworked into x10 highertower to keep chasing the expired hype of seriousmartin wacky maps. Shit I was featured on seriousmartin's randomizer video years ago and that server's gone now. I'm just kinda typing whatever comes to mind but like. If it were easy and affordable I'd be happy to host a handful of servers to cover the niches and necessities TF2 currently lacks in servers. But the scope's too big for me to afford it on my own, Two servers per gamemode type with the entire map rotation available, one for vanilla maps, one for community maps each, wacky maps, nintendo maps, single servers for specific gamemodes that are lost to time, at this point I'd just be reinventing 2013 Intox.
That reminds me. There's these Gungame servers I sometimes join that I usually end up stomping. And I noticed that so far almost every time I join the server, it's two people claiming to be in a duel and they'd get mad if I intercepted. In my mind I'm thinking "It's extremely rare people join this server, I want to enjoy what this server actually offers" and now I'm the bad guy for ruining their duel. I mean sure whatever, they can have their duel. But I still find it frustrating that; that server basically never gets any actual players anymore besides these people. I personally find it weird.
There's one consistently played on randomizer server right now that's usually pretty dang full, and it's a class wars upward only RTD server. I play on it pretty often but I always have the same gripe in the back of my head over the fact the defending team respawns far too quickly. They can bypass the entire respawn time by just failing a class change. I really do miss playing no-gimmicks randomizer on harvest.
I miss when people would try the weird oddball servers like Zombie Fortress with Perks, random VSH or like Warcraft 3 source. Now they just like play one slender man 24/7 and too boring or a VSH thay has cool custom stuff but to find it is RNG. Just sad.🤢🤮
As someone that played during this time, I really don't feel like "good" community servers in 2013 were "few and far between". I don't have any data, the STAR_ video is definitely accurate, but there were definitely plenty of good, no-gimmicks, no-ads community servers around. I met most of the friends I still talk to today over there, and I really think its a massive shame that new players won't really have that kind of social experience anymore.
The part I miss from quick play is being able to play multiple rounds on the same map without having the server reset. I miss not having to go back to the main menu every time a match ends. I miss the old ui and wish Valve would be willing to make a hybrid ui. I want the map vote bug fixed.
Yes. It's the configuration of Valve servers during the quickplay era that I want back. Freely choosing teams, map timers, being able to freely connect. I hate how restrictive current casual is.
Yeah because people see Quickplay in the title and then immediately start talking about teamscramble and stuff when that isn't what the video is about. It's as much a myth that Matchmaking killed community servers as it was that Quickplay was a bastion of them.
why is there no scramble on official servers??? this vital function to keep steamrolls from happening was just up and completely removed for whatever reason - but autobalance gets to stay with pre-2007 parameters. this game suck. aaaaeeee.
I want quickplay back because matchmaking fundamentally doesn't work. I do not care about community servers. I miss map timers, map voting, team scrambling, picking teams, etc.
@@SquimJim sadly I think has too much pride or they put too many csgo stickers over the design docs to do that. This shit was in 2016 and hasnt changed. If it was to happen, they would need to remove their pride, remove all the csgo and donta stickers and code it.
@@SquimJim imo, the programming behind the removal of casual mechanics and introduction of matchmaking does not allow both to coexist at once. The quickest option is a full revert. The hard option which, you're wishing for, is going through the matchmaking design and programing process from scratch, AGAIN, and i'm sure valve won't bother with that now.
@@HaartieeTRUE I believe what you said 100% no way anyone at Valve would be willing to work on this. They would have to purge it and slop it back in or not. I personally rather have the chance to be proven right then.. never given a chance and told "your idea sucks cuz i got a pateron and i stream to my cat!"
@@SquimJim I don't think Valve would do that unless they removed casual mode as a whole, keeping in mind I also want the Glicko (or whatever the CS system is called) gone. The only options, I believe, from Valve's eyes, are removing casual or keeping it. With that being said, I don't think Valve will ever go back anyways out of pride.
The quickplay ecosystem is a great solution because Valve servers at the time (called pubs instead of casual) allowed you to freely switch teams and spectate That alone would be a huge advantage against bots Sprinkle in major changes to the votekick system and greatly extend the server bans and the bots will be a non-issue
How would switching teams and spectate help against bots? And what would overhauling mean? Wouldn't bots just abuse this like they do now? Besides adhoc coming back would allow 12 bots to join instantly given the chance and hold the entire game hostage
@@h20gamez BECAUSE THERE WAS NO AUTOMATED SYSTEM TO PUT BOTS IN A NEW GAME AFTER THE BOT WAS KICKED. also community servers were lively unlike this video tells it.
Cactus Canyon and Asteroid 24/7 Quickplay servers were a delightful time. I had no problem finding Valve servers through Quickplay, and technically Quickplay offered both matchmaking (automatically put you into a server of a chosen gamemode) and ad-hoc with “show servers”. I preferred using the latter and appreciated the streamlined nature of the former. To me, I miss the social space that pre-MYM matchmaking had. I met great friends through TF2 and I don’t see that as feasible with faceless matchmaking being on the game’s sleeve. People disconnecting at round end en masse during MYM was one of the many first signs of the culture shift.
I still think quickplay is better, I just wanna be able to hop into a Valve server on my favorite gamemode and just play the game. The way casual servers are is you wait in a queue for 3-10 minutes to get put in a match (likely on the losing team in the last minute of the match), the match ends, and everyone leaves during the voting part and the server becomes dead. With quickplay the match would end and teams would scramble and people'd keep playing, if people left they'd get replaced pretty fast. Casual servers also don't let you join team spectator, so you can't spectate potential cheaters to scout them out and get evidence, and you can't swap back to your team if you get autobalanced which makes that feel much more harsh in modern TF2.
In my experience, I can find a casual game in about 15 seconds while queued for all main modes sans CTF. I do agree with the other points, though. Team scramble and spectator should be brought back to casual.
@@dabmasterars The map voting at the end should also be done away with. That shit just takes way too long, people would rather re-queue. Map rotations are generally better, even though it will never retain all the players.
Here is what I miss from old tf2 servers. The ability to scramble teams and the ability to swap to the opposite team. I also miss how you could pick and choose your favorite valve server from the server browser and quickly join and leave whenever you wanted with no downtime. I also dislike how long it takes for games to start aswell. You have to wait 30 seconds for everyone to join then another 60 sec for the game to actually start and sometimes games can end really quickly. A CTF map can end before everyone is able to join and there is only one round before restarting again.
When Quickplay was a thing you could add Valve servers to your favorites list and hop between 5 different servers in under 10 seconds. You cannot do this currently with our current match making. Yet match making apologists NEVER address this fact when they try to bad mouth Quickplay.
If we're talking about the bot crisis, I don't think "you could jump between 5 different Valve servers in only ten seconds" is a good selling point for Quickplay advocates. I do think community servers should be spotlighted significantly more, (eg. a new quickplay rotation of vanilla-friendly community servers) and MYM introduced tons of unnecessary problems to the game, but the idea that rolling MYM back will fix all of TF2's current problems feels downright cultish tbh
@@darthvaderreviews6926 Both sides are, any idea that has more then one person is a cult. 😂 If you lay it out and show it compare and contrasting, you pick what is good and try to work it. Also ... you do know the bot makers are already doing whatever thry are doing. It like trying to control who finds maids unsexy and ban them.
@@darthvaderreviews6926 so you would rather queue up for matching and spend 5 to 10 minutes trying to get into a bot free game instead of hopping through several servers in the same amount of time?
As for the MOTD ads, you can disable HTML MOTD pages, removing the ads and resorting to the text-only message that's usually something along the lines of "You must enable HTML MOTD in order for us to keep the server running." But I don't think I've ever been to a server that's straight up kicked me for keeping it disabled, and if I have, it'd be blacklisted pretty quickly.
Pre casual, there was a tab for community servers, different than this old style server browser. I was always less than 10s away from joining skial/ugc or others, never had trouble to join map I wanted. I think valve server was also on that list and you could choose what you want. Now it's either uncletopia (that are either full or empty) or nothing.
@@SquimJim The He said- She said argument isn't exactally working, and the pinned comment goes against what your saying in the video. This feel's not only rushed but also not well thought of. Though Lucid and Zesty say's it better than I ever could.
I think a big reason i miss quickplay are secondary reasons, like being able to switch teams, or being able to join the official valve servers from the server browser
I distinctly remember hating matchmaking so much after meet your match that I stopped playing for quite a while. Quick play was AMAZING, and given that I literally stopped playing because of it, I’m gonna go ahead and say yes, matchmaking wasn’t a great move. I loved being able to switch teams so I could always play, for example, payload offense
Quickplay as a solution to bots is a lopt more viable because you can't be forced into a low player count server. that's where bots thrive. Abusing matchmaking by taking your solo queue against their party of six. if instead the bots were forced to divide up their numbers among those servers more evenly, they'd need far greater numbers than the actual amount of cheater bots that exist now. Plus, quickplay makes them easier to avoid AND easier to keep out of full servers cause they can't just all join and lock down a team at the same time. The cheater bots ABSOLUTELY benefit from matchmaking and it's shortcomings in a way that would not be possible with quickplay. As to your point with the death of community servers, look at the timeline more critically. From 2007 to 2011 Community servers were good. the F2P update brings in a large group of players that don't really know what the game is about coming into the game. They'll play basically anything cause they're a much more diverse group of players. The community servers adjust to this and serves player more options in gamemode variety. this HUGE surplus in supply leads to most servers trying to "out wacky" the other to try and stand out, compounded by the fact that valve official servers now exist and all the people just trying to play the regular game are going there. So you have 3 groups of players now. Old heads that have been playing on the same few community servers that have been running standard gamemodes since the beginning of the game. The F2ps that DO want to play on those plugin filled community servers. And finally the brand new guys who haven't developed a preference yet. Despite the state of community servers at the time, Valve removing ALL community servers from quickplay, forced the servers that the old heads were using to die because that 3rd group of people stopped flowing into them. Removing community servers from quickplay FORCED them all to be even worse than they already were to try and stand out. After MYM, community servers started getting Good again specifically because people were looking for a reprieve from the bots, but none of them could survive long term because they inevitably run out of that flow of new players. That's the issue here, because valve has put their servers in a separate little box, you HAVE to be a non traditional game mode server to survive nowadays, Bringing back quickplay with even the slightest bit of moderation to keep the P2W servers out would solve this issue entirely, and even if they didn't, we should assume that players can have a little bit of agency to see " wow, that's a pinion server. Not gonna click on that one again". The beauty of community servers is that once you find 5 or so good ones you can favourite them and be set for life, something that isn't possible with matchmaking. I strongly disagree wth your premise that quickplay was just as bad of a system as matchmaking, because they have the exact same issues. It's a lack of bare minimum moderation that fucked both of them, but bringing back quickplay would not only make a lot of people happy, it would also be much easier to moderate.
@SquimJim yeah sure if you just clicked "play now" it could do that, but if you did that one extra click to show the servers, it would show you how populated a server is. That's the risk you take when letting something else choose where you play, it might get it wrong.
This video feels silly. Yes, it’s factual, but it’s not actually tackling what people mean when they say “I miss Quickplay.” Like I said in your discord, nobody is really having their mind blown by this because 95% of people arguing in favor of quickplay are arguing for reasons that you are plainly ignoring. Most people aren’t arguing in favor of community servers. Factual video arguing against a mega minority opinion, posted at a time when people are saying “bring back quickplay” at large. I don’t want to assume bad faith, but your video is just strawmanning a sizable chunk of the TF2 community. Very unfortunate.
What did I plainly ignore that wasn't in the video? Explain. If you look into it you will see a surprising number of people claiming Quickplay is a solution to the bot problem and that matchmaking killed community servers. Especially lately.
@@SquimJim Yes. Why do those people say that Quickplay is better than Casual or that bringing it back in some form is better than what we have now? Most people aren’t arguing about the community server aspect. Like you said, the people who weren’t there for it are arguing for Quickplay, but you also said that these people probably don’t know about how bad the community servers were at that point. So then they CAN’T be arguing for what you’re describing in the video. As for the people who WERE around when Quickplay was a thing, they would know how bad most community servers were, and thus, wouldn’t be arguing in favor of it. People are just using “Bring back Quickplay” or any derivative of that as a blanket statement because Valve Casual mode stripped away a lot of features from the game while adding some bad ones. Some examples would be: -ability to switch teams -ability to spectate -ability to pick teams upon joining -actual auto balance -team scramble? (It goes hand in hand with the auto balance thing) -Valve forcing players all onto teams instead of letting them pick -Valve removing good auto balance/team scramble -The ability for 6 people to all join the same team at once, which creates way more steamroll games and is what makes bots such a nuisance in casual Etc Your video IS correct in what it’s saying, but I’m just unsure who you’re even attempting to debunk here, when everyone already agrees with you on this. Like I said in your discord, nobodies’ heads are “exploding” over the revelation that community servers sucked, because most people aren’t arguing for that. They just want Valve servers to add back the old features that made Quickplay Valve servers so good, and remove some of the new ones that make current Casual mode subpar. Again again, I don’t want to assume bad faith. If anything, it just feels misguided. But in any case, this video further muddies the discussion about Quickplay, as it doesn’t actually address what the broader discussion talking points are in the first place.
I dont understand. All those things WERE mentioned in the video. People ARE asking for quickplay back specifically because of the community servers. How often do you see people claim community servers are a solution to the problem? How often do you see people say this wouldnt be an issue if it weren't for matchmaking? Just because that's not what YOU mean when you say it doesn't mean that it's not a common talking point.
@squimjim I agree with @pikachufrankie here, most of the people who are arguing for bringing back quick play are arguing for the features quick play had that the current casual doesn't have which was already outlined here. The play on community servers argument seems to be a completely different argument from what I've seen. There's some overlap in who's saying it but I mainly see different people spouting those two arguments. they aren't one in the same.
@@SquimJim Except that most of the comments on this very video are expressing their reasons for saying “bring back Quickplay” aren’t the reasons you outlined in the video. I have heard people say “the bot crisis wouldn’t be this bad without casual mode”, and then they actually explain their reasoning when asked, and it’s basically never been what you said. It’s almost always been things that I said they argue as points. I’m sure the people this video is meant to debunk exist, but again, they are nowhere near as prevalent in the discussion about Quickplay Vs Casual as this video makes them out to be. They are a mega minority opinion, and again, most of the comment section seems to agree on that.
Hey! It's me! I am not 'regurgitating' shit. I've been going on about this since day 1 of MYM. Quickplay was never perfect, because community servers were never perfect nor can they/should they be. 2014 to mid 2015 was the best state the game was in bar none.
Very early 2014 was when Valve pushed community servers to the side and made Valve servers the default. Community servers as they once were had mostly been killed off by that time period.
2:15 >The worst of the problems were dealt with fairly quickly Yeah, no, lol. Casual was an unplayable gamemode for 6 months. They only kinda fixed it by smissmass time, and even then it was still an inferior product to quick-play, both by design and by efficiency.
I did, and i dont misremember things. Autobalance worked even if it was a boit annoying to be switched it TRULY kepts matches equal and balanced. There were usually no steamrolls. Servers run 24 hours so you could stay on as long as you liked just like community servers instead of getting a boot after 2 rounds. Matches were stalematey in a good way and actually FELT casual. I dont say remove casual and bring back oversimplified Quickplay, but MAKE Casual feel like quickplay did. I especially miss ability to change teams so i could help out the weaker team if there are too many tryhards on one side. In current game i cant do anything if i am on their team. Meet your match ruined the game for me.
They didn't run 24hrs though. They had a timer. I see just as many steamrolls now as during quickplay. It's naturally just something that's going to happen. And not saying it was good or bad but people did abuse the ability to switch teams to restack teams after team scrambles all the time.
@@SquimJim The timer could always be extended WITIHN the match, unlike now where the server resets, even if the same map is put back in. If i remember right, there were moments when the players in a server would be memeing and spamming the 'extend map' vote for no reason, and in some instances most of the server would just play ball and vote yes.
@@SquimJim I know they had one but it just felt like on a custom server without big interruption and pause of voting(map voting on community servers happens during gameplay so there is far less waiting and with all the time spent seeing the map instead of the score board and boring background for over a half of a minute. As for people abusing team switch, I used it for exact opposite, to help against such people, i cant do that anymore. Maybe that autobalance redesign idea you had in newer video could work for that, but even then it would only work if there was a player count imbalance and not excessive score imbalance.
I think it was more what casual represented, less the matchmaking system itself. Like there's a very clear distinction between 'get me in a game now' and 'ready to rank up your badge gamer?'. I'm somewhat 50/50 because the removal of ad-hoc connections, plus the fact you couldn't change teams at your leisure, both are taking away a lot of the, funnily enough, casual nature of tf2 for me. That and it's always not been fun when I boot up tf2 and have to wait for my friends to finish their game before I can even play lol. But I absolutely agree that if they reversed these changes for Casual, then I'm team Casual. One other thing I'm not a fan of though is the 6 player lobby you can make, since it's good in theory, but in practice you're gonna get stomp lobbies or, very relevant to today, bot lobbies.
Something I find often is a common opinion that sprouts from one person's mouth. And everyone bases their thoughts on it without going to the original material/sources. And often it makes their perspective disproportionately large, with a lot of opinions only being variations on that. Not to sound weird, but it's like inbreeding with opinions, as much variety as possible is generally healthy. I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it does happen.
The argument that the post MYM and Pre-MYM TF2 aren't actually that different but the real change being the introduction of quickplay is argument that I have to object to. Sure, making quickplay a button that took people only to Valve official servers was a funnel away from community servers. But even then they weren't made inherently separate, as they both stood together in the server list browser and used the same basic system for voting, choosing teams, changing maps, etc. Now we have a more modernized system that wants to be completely different from what came before, and something was definitely lost along the way. Its subtle, but the way servers would change between maps was one that encouraged people to stick around and get to know each other instead of the almost "end credits screen" that Casual uses, which often encourages people to leave and join the search queue again. The change MYM brought to TF2 is one that is subtle to most, but by all means the game is very much a different experience because of it.
A lot of my favorite community servers that ran non-standard gamemodes are dead, and no one has tried to replicate what made them special. I want my Azelphurs, my NoHeroes, my LowLagFrags, and my WXCDs back. I want to jump into a server and see the same people over and over again. I want to dedicate many hours to the same server because they had something unique.
I've been very heavily involved in multiple TF2 community server networks in the 2013-2018 period. I was close a friend with many server owners, and they universally say Casual WAS the reason for the mass dying of community servers. Basically all community servers experienced a sharp decrease in players right after Meet Your Match, and it was near overnight. If you look at old steam groups of dead community servers you can even see that most of them shut down in the 2016-2018 period. The combination of old players leaving the game (because of the introduction of Casual) while new players were discouraged from using community servers (because of focus on casual) was a deadly combo that community servers couldn't handle
I liked quickplay a lot more for playing with friends. It was an easy process to hop in their games and start playing. Just a right click and join, no need to leave the match every few games as people take mass exoduses between maps changing, and being able to change teams was nice. I never get to play against friends when we queue together in Casual queue, and I feel a lot of fun moments are lost in that.
6:42 I did get a perfectly timed RU-vid advertisement here. Overall, I understood that for quality control purposes, having standard Valve maps is important. But I am also one of the minority who doesn’t really play “stock TF2” anymore. I’m playing class wars, RTD, 100 players and x100.
I first started playing TF2 in 2022, I played a few casual games, saw the bots and switched over to community servers. I genuinely haven’t seen half the maps in the game because of the bot problem in casual.
The one thing i hate about matchmaking is i swear to god the game purposely autobalances people in a party at first i thought just a coincidence cause it was usually 2 of us but then recently we've started playing 4-6 stacks and the game will literally always autobalance one of us in the party or just straight up move us one by one to the enemy team then back if the people kept leaving
The decline of community servers is natural outcome of Valve's changes to quickplay. All community servers are either funded by nobody or by donation of people regularly playing on them meaning that the best servers have better chances of survival since players will more likely to stick around and generate traffic or will even donate to keep the server going. The introduction of Valve's official servers created a big problem for those servers since Valve's servers are funded by all of the microtransaction that the game has and additionally some percentage from trading on the market place. This created an unfair competition for community servers since Valve simply makes a lot more money and forced owners of the servers to introduce more adds and other types of ways to monetize the server or they would not be able to compete or survive in general. This is what started the decline and made community server for standard gamemodes largely absolute. Why bother finding a good server if official servers are always there and probably better? Ads that more and more servers would use made people start to use made players avoid any community servers in general since nobody would want to bother trying to find a good server when you have Valve's servers. So even if you as a server hoster did everything right you would still lose and it would be due to existence of official servers. An obvious solution to such problem is either to not have Valve servers or to only have Valve servers in quickplay. The second option is what they did before completely ruining the game with abhorrent matchmaking system. I've only played during the time when qucikplay consisted of official servers so I can't say how good were the "good old days" of TF2 but what I can say is that quickplay in it "final" form was leagues above current casual. Conclusion? Revert back to quickplay pre-Valve's servers or pre-Meet Your Match
rly disagree here, don't know why most of the video was based on the perspective of community servers only and does not talk about the show servers tab which was valve servers only. also idk who is complaining about causal hodge-podging different types of people (maybe it's on the reddit or twitter or something idk i don't use them) also also, pet peeve of the recent discourse i HAVE seen (mostly yt), half of the point of that star video was to destigmatize playing on valve servers like you said at 4:54 though i will admit the ranking system is neat
Because the claim is that Quickplay was better because it shined a spotlight on community servers and community servers aren't subject to the same bot problem that official servers have. Therefore reverting things to quickplay is a solution to the problem. A few of the tweets shown in the beginning say just that. It was all explained in the video.
@@SquimJim fair enough, but of the tweets in the reel only one of them mentions community servers at all. "wanting quickplay back" doesn't exactly equate to just the quickplay queue and community servers mixed in with valve ones, but also the show servers tab with valve servers only, which is what I frequently used since i only started playing during love and war. i think that's where the confusion lies here, it comes off as you brushing off the positive sides of the old system just because of community servers, which i don't think is the point. really if anything I just would want them to put the old voting system onto casual, with having both teams vote for kicks, map nominations instead of that weird suggested map choice thing, vote to enable alltalk, and vote for extending the map length. don't know why that got kicked to the curb with casual
I think you are wrong, causal just a slop tryinv to appeal to 2 different groups and we only put up with it cuz trying to find a good vanilla tf2 server sucks. Seriously who actually likes to reque or watch the map get changed for no good reason. I forget it but there a bias for things that "Survived" to the end to be deemed the best.. but that a faulty logic circuit.
the thing i miss most about the pre-MyM era is just the rules and settings it had. Let me spectate, let me switch teams i wanna fight my friends, let us continue playing why restart the server after every side switch, let us vote to switch maps, let us vote to scramble teams, let the game naturally scramble the teams like it used to. And most importantly, bring back the old quickplay artwork, it looks so good and i miss it :c Also there was something really nice about knowing exactly what map you wanna play, go to the server browser and find a valve server running that map and get into a game so much faster than letting quickplay search it or MyM matchmaking find one
@@bruschetta7711 his strawman of "Community servers suck, they will not filter the bots out and are shite to run" is like nonexistance? Like whwn you go through the comments everyone is talking about how quickplay worked better. And then jim like "but bots would bot doe"... like it pretty much irrelvant, bots would bot since.. that door been cracked open long time ago.
It's so frustrating how many problems with modern tf2 can be tracked back to the fumbled launch of meet your match. Like I know its like the coldest take possible but man if only they didn't rush it out and things like quick play and competitive worked on launch I genuinely wonder if peoples reaction to quickplay would be as bad as it was/is.
I remember playing (16 years ago) on Lotus Clan's 24/7 vanilla Dustbowl server and in the evenings it was always full up with regulars, to the point that if you wanted to get in you bought a monthly membership to be able to get in. It was a great community of regulars who knew each other and talked continuously to each other, and there were no ads at all. Then "Competative" and "Matchmaking" came out and the community servers practically died overnight. The only community servers left now are so full of BS, RTD, Bots, Cheaters, and abusive admins that TF2 is painful to play anymore. Pity Overwatch 2 is just worse. The original Overwatch was at least an escape from the swamp that TF2 became. But this kind of BS is the norm in MMOs and PvP games, especially the F2P ones. I've practically stopped playing anywhere near what I did in the glory days of TF2 and Overwatch. I just don't need the ulcers they give me these days.
Exactly. That's the part of the Quickplay days which made TF2 so easy to play. You open the Quickplay menu, you press a button which takes you to the server list of whatever game mode you selected, and you manually pick a Valve server to join, which functions the way any community server would. Switching teams, voting to scramble, voting to change the map or extend the current one. All of that was available to us. I don't quite remember when the "view server list" button was added to the Quickplay menu, as it wasn't there from the start. But I do remember using it.
For me, the part of Quickplay that I liked was being able to pick and choose what Valve servers to join. If I had a friend/group playing on a specific server, I could immediately join without having to wait an eternity for matchmaking to consider putting me in. If I wanted a chilled out game, I could pick a half populated server on a map like Watergate instead of being put into something like Upward or Badwater. If I wanted to play a game with just my friends and/or bash out some difficult contracts, I could pick an empty server and they could immediately join off me.
i don't know if the community server angle of bringing back quickplay is held by the majority of people. I just want for them to have the old quality of life features of quickplay again. Bring back a map time limit of 45 minutes, ad-hoc connections, autobalance, the ability to switch teams and i don't care if it is called quickplay or matchmaking or whatever.
Gosh I remember having a steam guide for how to block Pinion Pot of Gold favourited from back then, its still there. I knew it was coming before you even mentioned it... That 2014 update is what I remember killing off community servers, especially mine. Sure it was a UK 24/7 2fort, but we had no plugins, no ads, our own forum and I played it every day from 2011 but that update killed off the flow of new people which kept it ticking over. The regulars stuck around for about 6 months but we went from a community of over 250 regular people to about 100 and then 20 in that time and then it just died. We tried everything to keep it going, different maps but the day before we shut it down for good there was just 4 of us left playing and just...chilling. So many good friends that just lost touch with and cant/dont talk to anymore, I miss it. Quickplay was just a different era of TF2, I just wish community servers got a bit more attention on the menu for the newbies. Its easy to miss.
instead of community hosted how about community rented valve servers, so players can host their own valve server and the host cannot get votekicked but also has the freedom to kick other players if possible thus preventing bots joining the game, and for players who want to rent and host valve servers their account needs to be at least 1 months old and has some minimum of 2 dominations and revenge for at least 6 classes out of 9, and it will has its own server browswr which it looks better than the original server browswr and it also tells you which region is it, just like among us servers
Been playing TF2 since 2010/2011 and I gotta disagree straight up, quickplay had its flaws but its genuinely better than what we have now. Plus day 1 of matchmaking being added immediately resulted in spinbotting appearing in the game lol. There has literally been zero upsides to the matchmaking system.
That cp_fastlane example is me. I've been there many times. Easily the best part about casual is that it lets me play something other than the 10 most popular maps.
I think 2014 quickplay is better than current matchmaking and I will not buckle on this. I would be okay with the current system if they would: -Reenable ad-hoc connections -let me switch teams whenever I want, provided the teams are balanced enough -scramble every now and then to prevent rolls I guess it all boils down to the server settings rather than the matchmaking, but regrettably these arent seperate as it stands. I think by reverting servers to the way they used to be it would also soften the botproblem since servers would be more likely to fill up with players and remain full for longer.
I still prefer Quickplay because it didn't require all the finnicky matchmaking. The matchmaking system is awful. It takes up more of Valve's resources, makes games start slower and end sooner, and prevents you from joining non-Valve servers because it will automatically make you rejoin the Casual server. I've also just noticed that, ever since Casual was added, people feel incredibly compelled to leave as soon as a game ends. I don't know why, but like over half the players requeue instead of sticking through the map change.
I agree. The majority of people would stick around on the same server and you would end up playing with the same people/making friends a lot easier. Now a days you can play a round and have a good time with someone but they are gone after the round ends and you never see them again. Everyone leaving really bothers me with the bots. You spend an entire round kicking and keeping the server as bot free as you can get it and the round ends, the majority of people leave and the bots flood back in.
That seems like a bad reason to prefer the ad infested hell that was quick play, you'd get lucky if you even were to find a normal TF2 server. Don't forget the corrupt admins and that problem you were describing was worse btw As someone who spent hundreds of hours into quickly people left matches half way through, auto balance bearly existed and things were honestly a pub stop most of the time Matchmaking no matter how shitty it is, is superior in basically every way. Only real argument you can use against it is that bots use it to their advantage
@@Dribbleondo Yeah, and they probably end up requeuing like 3 more times because all the servers they end up joining are too empty/too botted... because others kept leaving them... see the problem? And actually, a lot of people leave the server even when we end up voting for the same map we were just playing. So I'm not even convinced you're right about that reason, sorry.
I don't even want quickplay to come back, I just want the official servers gone. Valve clearly isn't interested in doing the work needed to keep the bots out, so getting rid of these servers that are unplayable most of the time is the next best option. If they do that, then vanilla community servers will come back to fill the void. The only reason there aren't at the moment is because there isn't much demand for them, since casual exists. Also, I'm aware it's not a silver bullet by any means, but it would still be an improvement over the current situation.
I honestly just miss how quick play games felt like they could last forever, while in Matchmaking you have to wait to vote for a new map, I just wish there was a way to vote for the map before the round ends, plus I miss being able to join other teams and go spectator.
