Thank you for watching our film. We appreciate you taking the time and caring enough to respectfully comment. Please visit our website www.24HorseBehaviors.org where Dr. Dyson will respond to questions, as well as address some of the views expressed below. This is just the start of a very long conversation. Thank you for being open to talking. Padma Video / The Train With Trust Project / Dr. Sue Dyson
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR WORK❤ I think it's so extremely painful for equestrians to admit how much pain we put our horses through in our quest for personal glory and status. I think that's why these deep conversations and corrections are not happening In the equestrian world. Humans that love horses are struggling to admit how wrong we've been in our treatment of horses. Maybe we should start listening to them more, and put our needs aside for awhile. We need to relook our idea of horse connection, training, tact, stabling....everything. Everything needs a rethink with more consciousness and more awareness of their needs.
Horses - (like humans, saying this as an MD) do not primarily need medical treatment. First of all, they need to be provided a lifestyle that promotes health. They need to be provided the opportunity to satisfy basic needs, at a minimal: Free forage & water 24/7, social relationships on a daily basis with other horses, freedom of movement, hoof-, and dental preventive care, basic immunizations. On top of that, in interactions with us humans: freedom of pain (properly fitted tack, no medieval torture bits or spurs, ridden correctly: no tucked-in noses, taught to properly carry a rider, freedom of fear (predictable, consistent, patient TRAINING by humans, meaning ask for something nicely adn reward when correct), variety and fun in their use. No human-driven status-driven stress from trying to force the horse to perform for you to gain 'glory'. I'm sad to see how horses generally are kept, and the fascination with gadgets, with bodyworks/chiropractice/acpuncture, horses stay healthy when given the chance to live the life horses need to live. Horses owe us nothing. That should be the ethical principle behind all of our interactions with them. Humble collaborative beings.
Crying like a baby at this. 😭 My mare kept having hoof issues so I asked the vet to x ray further up since the hoof x rays came back normal even though she was lame. She has a whole bunch of bone fragments in her fetlock and the vet was astounded she has ever been sound...which means my darling horse has just been "cooperating" to make me happy and it broke my heart. The guilt you feel even when you are trying to figure it all out is awful.
I feel your pain, I'm so so sorry you had to endure that. It wasn't your fault. I'm sure you did everything you could at the time. I went through the same nightmare with my sweet gentle giant. When I bought him he was this huge, gorgeous amazing FEI dressage star, a 10 year old Danish Warmblood at 17,2 and made chins drop where ever he went, Mr. Fancy Pants. I was SO PROUD!!! And he was the kindest , most loveable big baby I just couldn't spoil and love love enough!! We were inseparable! And riding him was an honour. But less than a year later he started having strange issues with basic things like picking up the right lead canter and suddenly rearing which made no sense, he was normally so well behaved. He was such a mommy pleaser though, he pushed on, most likely in constant pain but I had the vet run every test possible and he thought I was nuts and blamed my riding for the issues...... that was very annoying. I knew he was in pain, I could literally feel it. And then he just started to fall apart, new issues popped up everywhere and sadly....after being told for months it was all my fault..... the vet discovered he had a degenerative bone disease....everywhere. I was shattered. And oddly, I too was in constant pain which I tried to ignore but what was so bizarre was, I was feeling pain where he was feeling it and could tell the vet where the issue was which my vet had never seen, he thought I was nuts at first but then realized I was right. And oddly where ever I felt this pain, the vet was finding issues he never would have found normally, right down to the exact vertebrae in his neck and back and even an ulcer due to stabbing pain in my stomach. It was so so sad, we both went steadily down hill together. We tried everything until it was clear it was just not fair to him and he had to be retired at 11 years old and I was soon after diagnosed with a rare disease in my bone marrow that I was told was terminal. I made arrangements for him to retire at a wonderful facility where he would be spoiled rotten and could just be a horse and live out his life in peace but saying good bye killed me. And I began horrible treatments and went down hill from there to the point of being stuck in bed for long periods of time. He was my soul mate, I had only bonded that strongly with one other horse remotely that close back in my junior jumper days who I lost tragically.... and I swore he was the same soul who had come back to me, as weird as that sounds. I spent nearly every day at the barn, even on his days off, just to hanging out treating him like a king and he and I were so connected, I hated to leave him. After he left, I was in a deep state of mourning and felt horrific guilt that he had been in so much pain but because he wanted to make me happy he performed beautifully for a year when we now know he had most likely been in pain for years and the prior owner, a professional most likely knew and concealed it and most likely had pushed him way to fast, way too young as his Grand Prix prospect. Poor baby. And he showed signs of physical abuse too. He was such a sweet boy who deserved so much better. I got notified when he passed away at 21 and was destroyed all over again. Had I been healthier, I would have kept him closer and cared for him but my prognosis at the time was so grim and I was unable to care for myself. I haven't been able to ride again since, due to my physical issues but more-so because emotionally I just can't..... I think about him almost daily and dream about a very different outcome for us, a much happier one. Sorry for my ramble, your comment struck a nerve, Much love to you xxxx Here is a video I made about our journey..... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-whLfNUuc5eE.html
While there were other elements in the care of this horse that I would love to have had addressed (hoof care, species appropriate environment, nutrition to name a few), this is a start for better lives of performance horses. Once you see this, you can’t un-see it. This owner is just starting her journey. I cried at the prognosis because I got one of those 2.5 years ago. My horse and I hike together and hang out. I know how it feels to lose your dream but there’s always room for other dreams. And I’m a better horse person for it.
My heart is broken and I am in tears thinking that my mare Heaven has been trying to tell me that she has been in pain for sometime now. I don't know if I can ever forgive myself for not understanding this much sooner. I found this video when looking up "pain face" in horses. She had a body score of one when I rescued her 9 years ago. Within the first 90 days she had gain the appropriate amount of muscle and weight and became my heart horse and best friend. I started noticing some things a couple of years ago and had the vet out for lameness. They said that she wasn't lame. I just recently had the chiropractor out and he did some adjustments but claimed nothing serious. Recently, I started noticing tensed eyes, tripping, bolting, head shaking and not wanting to be tacked up. I thought that it was the saddle so I tried different saddles and different padding with no avail. It just breaks my heart that she has been trying to tell me that she is in pain and I didn't know how to listen. She has been the best horse that I have ever owned. I think being a rescue she has been trying to pay me back all these years for saving her life. If she only knew that all along she was saving mine. I want to jump in the car right this minute and go give her a huge hug and tell her how sorry I am. Tomorrow when I see her I will do just that. We will not ride. We will go for a walk halter and lead, graze and spend quality time together. I can not thank you enough for making this video that has opened my eyes to my sweet girl's pain and unconditional love. A love like I have never experienced before.
This hit too close to home. My lovely sweet wonderful mare had a sudden personality change. Trainers wanted me to be tougher with her, but I knew something was up. She now gets lite riding in a western saddle and is perfectly content. She is no longer an athlete or show horse, but she is comfortable and loved.
People who seek out help already do the first step to help the horse, they already listened to the horse telling them something is wrong. We don't live in a perfect horse world, but we can make it better when we just listen to our horses
The world is full of horses screaming and people willfully ignoring their attempts to communicate. Every rider should watch this video and start really looking at the horses they ride.
I did nit expect to cry at this video. This is a great video to learn from, after watching this I went to my barn and lunged each one of my horses to examine the way they move closely and found out that my 8 year old mustang that I used for Extreme Mustang Makeover in 2018 was lame. It was heart breaking to find out the he was putting up with me to keep me happy. I am glad I got to watch this video at the request of RaleighLink14, this helped me find out that my horse was lame before it got worse. Thank you for exposing this video to the public!
I was a “problem” horse specialist for decades. My first job was to identify and address all physical issues before moving into the behavioral. The large majority of horses that I came across had pain induced behaviors
A very important story to tell. Thank you for spreading more awareness. About 80% of the ridden horses I see as a trainer are lame and/or showing multiple of these pain signals. It is important that horse owners also understand WHY the horses get these problems in the first place. Proper management and correct training can help avoid many of these problems. We have a long way to go in the horse world to educate owners, vets, trainers and judges. Looking for the pain behaviors is a good start. The next steps are to educate people about saddle fit, training, hoof care, nutrition, dental care, social behavior and housing solutions that allow the horse to be sound, healthy and happy 24/7.
I think this video's focus shouldn't be on "24 behaviours" (which any sensitive and empathic person would recognize) but rather to open a discussion about our todays way of using horses and prioritizing sport. Horses are not made for performing the way people would like them and this video is a perfect example of it. This horse is no exception... It is absolutely crazy how horse world managed to normalized things like injections just to cover pain and continue performing. I cannot imagine how people learned to close their eyes for continued damage done to horses. Although the owner seems very carrying it is beyond sad when she asks at the end on "which lever she will be able to compete" - like that is the most important thing! I guess horse community has completely lost touch with real priorities... For the owner - I think it can be a turning point for her to actually start a real partnership journey with her horse, to discover how amazing creatures they are, to put more work into learning and listening to her horse's needs (the scene with brushing is just so frustrating...) and why focusing on performing is a path that goes to nowhere and make horses only anxious... Don't get me wrong, it's not that I am against riding - horses need to move to be healthy. The problem starts when the way of doing that is not anymore healthy but only focused on achievements that people expect. There is so much knowledge out there on what really horses could benefit from but still ignored for a sake of humans pride and fun. And I am talking from all perspectives - in order to get what people want from horses they force them into harsh trainings (not even mention such a simple things...as for example trotting a horse continuesly for more than 5 minutes rises the risk of ulcers significantly), keeping closed in a stalls, small boxes, provided very limited time out isolated from other horses, on small, boring paddocks, on crazy diets (limiting forage for example), putting metal shoes that we already know are not beneficial... list goes on.
I agree with much of what you are saying. But this is Ms Dyson's area of expertise, and if more horse people could recognize signs of pain in the horse for what they TRULY are, and not just dismiss it with 'oh they always do that', it can only benefit the horses in the long run. As she mentioned in the video, the horse world is slow to change. Maybe this will help start some folks in the right direction. :)
Humans normalize injections to continue to perform in their own bodies so - crazy as it sounds- it can’t really b a surprise that that’s accepted for animals. I do think the owner was just coming to grips w reality and grasping at straws bc acceptance is a process. Likewise, I think the horse world is just starting to recognize how much damage horses r dealing w and the next phase is prevention 🤞🙏
@@LeslieKazadi yup I know that, the difference is that humans accept to ruin their own health and bodies for sport achievements and that is what they give consent to. Horses don't have a choice, they are being ruined for humans sake - and that is simply not ethical :(
@@terryst9835 yes absolutely, my point was that - pain is just a tip of a mountain. We need to open a discussion about "what are causes of all of this". The horse world changes very slow... We still have alive ideas from middle ages. Twenty years ago when I talked about some of those behavioural signs as an "underlying problem" not as "misbehaviour" I was laughed on and being called oversensitive. Today I am glad there are finally professionals studying that subject - I just hope to see faster a bigger discussion about the real causes of all of that damage and pain.
If anyone watches this video and does not realize how humans are breaking down and damaging horses for their own riding gratification you need to reexamine your level of selfishness and sanity.
It was brave and courageous of this girl to put herself out there in hopes to care for her horse and spread the word to others. That took a lot of courage and she shouldn't be criticized for it. It's not like we're all born horse experts with a veterinarian's education on horse medical care. Also, I really felt for her. A lot of us love horses and equestrian sports too. Not everyone can afford or have to the time to lease or buy more than one horse, so if your horse is completely lame it can mean either not competing in that sport for a long time or selling off your beloved horse. Both are difficult decisions. It would be nice if the RHpE is standardized and offered as a common tool for all of us to check our horses with vets.
Thank you Bri, for being so sensitive and astute. You are right. Courage is the perfect word to describe how hard it is to be super honest and put yourself out into the world for the good of all horses.
Anyone wanting to call themselves a horse person needs to watch this. Thank you for putting this out there. This is so incredibly and vitally important information, all who ride or handle horses must learn from this, once again thank you 🙏
My 27 year old Savannah has had hoof issues on and off for years. When we could ride we did. When we couldn't we didn't. I decided a long time ago riding didn't matter. I was with her. Recently she had a tumor (originally diagnosed as a granuloma) removed from her left cannon bone. 1st vet said granuloma won't bother her (at the time she was not walking well). Had another vet to look at her hoof- he had been a farrier and had gone back to school and was now a vet. He just looked at it and said it was a tumor (subcutaneouscarcinoma)=. Fast forward 8 weeks and she hasn't walked this good in 2 years. So glad I got a second opinion. Pathology said good margins, so prognosis is good. Although I can probably ride her around the pasture a little, the important thing is that she is comfortable. We have to learn to speak their language. A wonderful video.
My boy is 21 and a similar story to yours, he was found to have HUGE Enteroliths we did the surgery 15K and he was a changed horse, a year later. But I still listen to him, to how we spend out time together.
My horse has a similar story to the one in the video EXCEPT I never pushed her even though people were telling me she was fine and just being a mare. It also helped that I had a veterinarian who believed and agreed that there was something wrong even though she wasn't obviously lame and we couldn't find the cause. It took 3 years in total to figure out what was wrong but because I decided not to push through the behaviors like everyone was advising she's still sound with no limitations at 17.
I had a peanut gallery of boarders who thought I just couldn't ride when my horse was lame. Lots of gossip. I had some diagnosis but the maintenance stopped working and the horse became visibly lame in a leg and it was subtle but consistent. Still peanut gallery scolded me. I finally retired the horse. Then magically I bought a new young horse and developed it myself, achieved a national USDF ranking, championships, etc. Peanut gallery is dealing with cognitive dissonance now.
It's really awful to think there's horses all over the world who's undesirable behaviours are put down to the horse being naughty and not recognising the horse could be in pain,
My older mare would be cranky some days & my dad & I decided it must be arthritis.. One day my neighbor "rode" his donkey to my house & my horse was terrified of the donkey.. I called the lady I bought my mare from & she said my horse had come from Wyoming in a huge truck w/donkey's & mules that had kicked her much of the way to the East Coast..My vet said she probably had mental & physical issues from that ordeal.. Today she would've benefited from massage & chiropractic therapy.. Back in the 70's probably only racehorses had those treatments.
They also need to change their aids and tack, I notice a lot of spurs and whips or tight flash nose bands that exaggerate pain, take those away and you've got the cause of the pain as well as the bits and the riding style that encourages horses into a movement we want that damages their muscles.
Thank you for making these important points. I was surprised that they didn't look into those. Dr. Cook says: “From research completed since then [1997], I now list over two hundred negative behaviours and forty diseases [resulting from the use of a bit]. I kick myself for not having recognized sooner that the bit causes so much mayhem. Bronze age man made a mistake putting a piece of metal in a horse’s mouth.”
@@marindahappypets while I do personally like bitless riding, Doctor Cook really isn’t a good source. He sells a bitless bridle which can lead to his research being biased. I just think a lot of people use his study as a source to prove everyone who uses a bit is bad. This is not meant to be rude :)
@@Super-es7xp Didn't consider your reply rude at all! 😊 I have seen very similar sentiments expressed regarding Dr Cook. I do wonder, though. He has been researching the topic since 1997. When did he start selling bitless bridles? AFTER he concluded bits are bad for horses, or before? It seems a logical progression to me, if one figures out that bits are detrimental, to go ahead and develop a solution, i.e. a bitless bridle. 👍
@@Super-es7xp if you knew anything about Bob Cook, you'd know that this is something used to try to distract from his research. The bitless bridle was *because* of what he discovered, and he currently gains nothing from the sale of the bridle but continues to push constantly for improvements in equine welfare, even in his 80s. He's a remarkable man.
@@Super-es7xp He did the study before he chose to ride bitless. So really, he just makes profit off his research. At the same time people who swear by bits will link stuff from veterinarians who developed bits that actually use their Dr status to say it's ok and it's better when it's just as bad if not worse than some other bits.
I am a medical professional that has never owned a horse but always loved them. I am so glad I met this specialist that reads horses perfectly. they are in pain. there is absolutely no reason to ever make a horse jump 4, 5 or 6 ft in the air on a day in day out basis. I know dressage has a very long. there is also no reason for a cutting horse to have to spin in multiple circles. There’s no situation on a ranch that would require a horse to spin multiple times. It is horse abuse.
If it’s necessary for the horse’s well being, I think it’s a good thing. But if you’re treating a horse just because you want them to preform, that’s messed up.
If young human athletes were given “routine joint injections”, it would be considered abuse, potentially criminal. One injection might be useful to kickstart an adaptive process… but more than one should throw up a million red flags that we’re covering symptoms without ever helping the horse recover healthy movement.
I was raised among Standardbreds from toddlerhood. They taught me what an uncomfortable horse looks like. When I see head poles, "controller" bits, gaiting straps, etc. used on a trotter or pacer, I know damned well that something is wrong somewhere. The frustration is in getting professionals to see this also.
My horse is a Standardbred who raced as a trotter until he was eight. I found this video really interesting because suspensory ligament issues retired him. I got him (at a "just to make sure you're not from the meat man" price) when he'd failed in a proposed post-racing career as a beach trek horse. He just couldn't handle other horses around him, which says nothing good about his racing days. The other thing he can't do is jump. When I got him you literally couldn't walk him over a stick on the ground. Now he'll pop low cross-poles at a trot, but that's as much as I'll ever ask. Luckily I'm a DQ anyway, and a little bit of strength work over cavaletti is much more our style. I have no proof, but I know his racing owner used to ride him and I suspect that she may have tried a little jumping with him while his legs still hurt, even though he was assessed as sound. These days the pain is entirely mental - remembered and associative - but I'm never pushing it. From me he gets every luxury - good farriery, regular body-work, properly fitted tack (including bridle), twenty-four hour turnout and, importantly, regular riding lessons for me - and he's so much more comfortable physically and mentally than he was when I got him five years ago. This is only because, influenced by people like Sue Dyson, I've always taken resistance on his part to indicate a pain problem that needs fixing, not an attitude problem on his part.
@@anne-mariecass7085 sounds good, and I thank you for taking time with this one. May I make a couple of reading suggestions that I think would be helpful? One, find either an older or newer edition of "Lessons in Lightness" by the late Mark Russell. One of the first lessons Mark taught a horse was relaxation before starting a lesson; many, many Standardbreds aren't taught relaxation at all, and this is the source of many of their physical and mental resistances. Not a huge book at all, but well worth the read. Second, search out any of the horsemanship books by Ross Jacobs. Ross lives & works in Australia; he also teaches relaxation, indirectly. Ross can teach you something about timing and about rewarding the thought that precedes the action; this has helped my feel a great deal. Lastly, buy a copy of "Horse Speak" by Sharon Wilsie. This one teaches you to use body language in a way your horse can understand, to communicate clearly with him. Eye opening. Thanks for your reply, and lots of good luck to you and to your friend! 👍
@@comesahorseman Thank you, I'll look these up! I have to say, of the many horses I've had and ridden, my Standie has taught me more than any of them. He came to me with a high level of internal tension due to always being consciously on his best behaviour. We now have a relationship where he can be his authentic self, and it's been a huge reward!
Keep sharing this video and it will start to spread so that owners understand and demand that the professionals either learn this or they choose another professional who is willing to learn.
Danke für dieses wunderbaren Film Hoffe so sehr, das dieser Film dazu beiträgt..das Leid in der Turnierreiterei zu lindern vielleicht sogar zu beenden.. Danke .. teilen.. teilen.. teilen
I happened to be a senior boarder at a performance barn (hunter/jumper) and although I think it adorable watching all the kiddos be lessoned in this discipline, I am grateful I ride our beautiful mountains trails here in Utah. Ride at peace with nature, breath the fresh air and know that my paint gelding is happy for his life. I wish nothing but the very best for all domesticated horses who's owners care enough to engage with their mounts on a regular basis, whatever the discipline but there's nothing like a beautiful trail ride. Continued good health to you all.
Horses don’t really like the slap, they accept it but it’s not the sensation that they do for one another… a rub or scratches are more to their liking.
I absolutely agree. It’s time all horse owners realize that horses, who have nerve endings so sensitive it causes shivering when a fly lands on their body … feel slaps like our bodies feel slaps. It’s aggressive and painful. STOP this habit, people! Horses respond to a stroking, loving touch or a light scratching, as a connecting reward. Watch how horses touch and communicate among themselves, and observe how your horse reacts when you are gentle, and touch with intentional love, instead of hitting them.
This video is beautiful put together, thank you for sharing this to the world. I hope more people will realise that the ‘bad horse behaviour’ can be a sign of pain.
I really got into it with this one woman on Instagram a few years back. She had just neutered her colt (Weaned only months ago, barely a yearling), and was complaining about how lazy he was now because he didn't want to trot while being lunged. *He had literally just had life altering surgery on one of the most delicate parts of his body -- he was not "lazy," he was in PAIN.*
I love this! I've recently gone through a similar situation. Lemme was just not himself. I'm so glad I listened to him and not everyone around me. He ended up having sesamoiditis in both front Fetlocks. I've decided to retire him, he owes me nothing and will be a beautiful pasture pet. I'm so grateful for my Veterinarians who spotted his slight lameness and figured out what was going on. ❤
WHAT AN AMAZING WOMAN AND AND A VERY IN DEPTH LOOK AT PAIN IN HORSES. WHAT A DIFFERENCE THIS MARE LOOKED SO LOVELY AFTER THE BLOCKS. LIKE SHE SAID SOMETIMES THE RESULTS SHE GIVES ARE NOT AS HOPEFUL AS THE OWNER WOULD HAVE WANTED AND SAD THEIR COMPETITION DAYS ARE OVER. WELL DONE TO EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS HORSE'S STORY. LOVED THE CREDITS AND PICTURES OF ALL AS YOUNG RIDERS, WHO PUT THIS VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEO TO HELP HORSE KIND!! Susan
It's so messed up that riders will continue to ride a horse over massive jumps when they need medical help first in order to continue doing so, there's studies that show how bad jumping is for horses and how it shortens their lifespans and damages their spines. Arthritus is often present in show horses due to their bodies being over-worked at a young age or even at an okay age. Horses aren't machines they shouldn't be showing or being ridden loads, just enough to keep them fit and healthy.
Most people don’t what to hear that their horse is unable to continue performing. They’ll keep asking “well what level can they still perform at?” Or “Well, they really like doing this.” The owner will find any excuse to keep the horse going instead of retiring it and just enjoying the horse for what it is.
@@kativasimonetta9069 Yeah they want horses for what the horses can help them achieve rather than actually enjoying and being with the horse as a partner. I think as owners we all go in with black beauty expectations and find out it's a hell of a lot of work.
@@kativasimonetta9069 the very term, what do you want to 'use' them for always sends shivers down my spine.. they were never ours to 'use' in the 1st place..
I absolutely agree with you. Some people push their horses too much. Over time, jumping will cause small damage. That damage builds up and turns into arthritis or other degenerative conditions.
OMG Thankyou Sue for your insights. Having had horses since a young age, I know that one has a great responsibility to ensure they are cared for in every way. Most horse owners need education. Imagine the distress a horse feels, like us, or anything with a heart beat, of being forced to hunt, jump, race, etc, and there is pathology, disease, pain. Horrible. And sometimes we must do the right thing and retire the horse, manage its pain and look after it.... I hope this information is given to not only horse owners, but every animal owner and especially equine vets. As a nurse it is imperative to keep up to date with emerging medical data, and Im sure like GP's ( MD for USA) they never have the time to keep up to date with all the continuous professional development. My Doctor thanks me when I give her some new piece of research. I Hope Vets around the world do their due diligence.
Agreed!! Horses hooves need to feel the ground, flex and push the frog to stimulate blood flow through the hoof to nourish frog and hoof health. Shoes are an abomination.
Her heels not only look contracted but are also far too high. What is interesting is that they did observe that her hoofs land toe first at each stride, both her front and hind legs. Yet, there was no mentioning that the reason for it are to be found in her being shod and therefore has a much reduced hoof functioning.
The task in this video is to identify lameness and the existence of the origin of pain in the horse & primarily attempting to teach viewers the pain indicators way beyond & way before limping lameness becomes obvious. Imaging confirms fibrosis in the suspensories. After diagnosis may come a consideration of the causes of the symptoms & the pathology…. poor saddle fit is mentioned as something which can impede correct movement & correct muscling. The effect of shoes/no shoes, high/low heels & a whole lot of other things associated with hoofcare is a program in itself. This video is not about preventing the development of lameness or of the causes o fibrosis in the suspensories due to a whole lot of possible causes, of which one would undoubtably be poor hoofcare….. right back to a horse’s juvenile years possibly.
And the fact that we need to have more empathy and education regarding posture, age and development, biomechanics, nutrition, conformation, training, self carriage, breeding, not to mention jumping is really not a natural task that horses do. And, rider fitness, the list can go on. Thanks for showing this. Very emotional 😢
This is great, however, I would ALWAYS look at feet/hooves first!! I recommend X-Raying hooves, only then can you tell if you have a proper trim! When you have a proper trim, then I would move on to what is fantastically explained in this video.
You can take comfort from the fact that you listened to her and took the action needed to help her ❤ .. sadly too many people still don't listen, even when their horse is screaming "HELP ME! I'M IN PAIN!" ...you listened x
That was very interesting. However, not once was the metal shoes looked at as possible contributing factor in the injuries suffered by this lovely and much loved horse. Really are horses designed to do this sort of riding?
That speaks from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for this amazing and honest video. I got my mare 5 months ago and she had pain with her hoofs and didnt want to be ridden. Today we improved all that at least for 80 % and she's now a happy horse, living in a herd, 24/7 outside with gras, shelter and hey. She tells me exactly what she wants and not and i listen to her. So she is learning to trust me and for me its my first priority: I only want to ride a healthy and happy horse in a 100% horsefriendly way. No Sport, no expectations she can't fulfill.
This video is AMAZING. I`ve learn a lot of new things and more ways to observe. But i think that its time to consider the posibility of horses without shoes. The hoof has a function too for a good health and we are blocking it witha piece of metal.
Galina is a stunning mare. So glad you're trying your best to relieve her pain & will keep her no matter what! I'm glad owners are starting to consider ulcers (which are extremely painful) & poor fitting saddles, etc. The US is horribly behind in proper fitting for saddles. Have you checked her for Kissing Spine? Jumpers in the US are started too young & worked too hard which is what causes Kissing Spine - a career ender. Great video, thank you so much. ( Her back left hip seems very stiff)
Every single rider and person involved with horses should watch this documentary, it’s so important! I feel so lucky I was trained later in my riding Years to really keep the horse as healthy as possible. With enough movement, being able to go outside 24/7 in a herd, the right food, gymnastic riding even if they are hacking horses and to really check regularly and watch out for pain. These horses lived a long and happy life! Our Arabian horse did short, easy Hacks with small riders in his 30s! The gentle movement helped him with his arthritis. So you can keep a horse healthy for many years. It’s just so important horse owners, riders and handlers know how to! Thank you for this amazing lifelong research and work that lead to this documentary. I just hope they found the best solution for Galena!
Thank you for this video, I have a horse I have taken on at 15 years old, now 17 who was showing all sorts of attitude problems before I got him, that he did not have when he was younger under his original trainer. Was passed around and maybe not ridden well, I can never be sure, but definitely has worries about anything he may associate with "work", grooming, groom stalls, tacking up. I don't ride him, just have been observing, and seeing where his flags are. We have started in-hand work to help strengthen his body, and he does really well, and does relax but his worries are very obvious. He is a gentleman, comes from exceptional bloodlines and he is from my dream breeder and a horse of a lifetime, but I may never get to ride him, and that is okay.Sad, but it is much more important he feels life is wonderful and not pressured than me getting on top. I noticed lately he seemed a bit stiff gaited and maybe neck pain, and had an assessment which will now be ongoing, and it is suggested he may have very early stages of DSLD which was a shocker, but if true I can imagine his fears of pain. We will keep assessing so I can ensure no other pain is added to his world, and protect him all-ways. I hope it is not his outcome, but am realistic and if so will not let him suffer long term. We have to have big hearts and iron wills to care for our beautiful friends.
Just a really fantastic beginning to subject that os too often ignored. I wish I had known all of this when I owned my horse. Knowledge is never wasted and I intend to watch this at least xxx more times. It is our responsibility as the owner to make these observations and make the right choice for the horse. Aside from it being the correct moral choice it is also the safest choice for the rider.
This was a fascinating video - I wish I had known this vet for my boy - no one could help me and it was a simple problem - now its too late - it didn't have to be. Thanks for posting it
Thank you for this video. I am having a very similar experience with my 6 yr old mare. We have been able to fix the 'obvoious' lameness, but I know there is still something off, ear pinning, eye rolling when loping while attempted contact in hand, unwillingness to move forward, larger left shoulder muscles, crooked when cantering on the right rein, etc. It is disheartening when the horse is giving you their all even though you know something is off, but can't figure it out. Thank you again for putting yourself out there for the rest of us.
This was quite emotional for me. Some years ago now I had a horse who developed "mystery lameness", which we never truly discovered its origin. Although I did spend far more money than I had, on vets and therapists, she progressively got worse and I didn't have the funds to do such an extensive study such as what was done in this video. I do know that although I'm not a competitive rider, she gave me her all, and I didn't realize HOW MUCH she gave until I got other horses and realized they couldn't do half of what she did. I still feel guilty that I didn't realize how much I was asking of her as she just always gave it. I now have her 16 year old daughter, and we have hardly done anything together as I'm so deathly afraid of "ruining" her. I do love her though. Yet even though she LOOKS almost identical to her mother, her personality is definitely NOT! Haha
Wish all horse owners would watch this. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve told someone their horses were lame or in pain and they refuse to acknowledge it.
Very disappointing but not very surprising that absolutely no attention is paid to the shoes, pads and the shape of the feet of this horse and the implications of those factors. The feet=the base that the rest of the horse functions on. How can that possibly be completely ignored. It's just beyond comprehension.
The toe-first landing was noted, and with that I was hopeful there would be some discussion of feet. But, yes - disappointing in an otherwise excellent production that the integrity of the hoof and its role in whole-body soundness was not addressed.
Dysin has done hoof care research so I would suspect that, in this highly edited version of events, that wasn’t a problem in this case - rather than ASSuming it was ignored. We aren’t privy to the entire vetting.
While removing the shoes would no doubt benefit the horse, the injuries are most likely from jumping. And the ligaments have had enough damage that removing the shoes wouldn't impact a lot I think, though like I said it would be better for the horse. But it really is disappointing that it wasn't mentioned. But also the bit, which we could all see the horse have reactions to the entire time.
What makes you think the feet were ignored? Unless they made this video 4 hours long which is likely the length of this extensive exam, the video cannot cover every blow by blow thing they looked at.
It's sad, and I hoped they had a cure for Galina. I went through a similar situation, but the difference was that my mare was already injured when I bought her. The flaw was very well hidden by the seller, and the vet who did the inspection failed to notice the problem. When we started training her harder, she started having behavioral issues, so I called a different vet who discovered that the mare had an untreatable previous injury. Watching the outcome of this research made me travel in time and feel like the day when the vet told me that I had to retire her in their best interest, which I did. I miss her so much; she was only 7 and had a bright future. The video is excellent for making people aware that when horses have "behavioral problems", they are probably trying to tell us something. We should learn to listen more our horses.
Incredible video. So much to consider! I am going to find those 24 behaviors and also the strips to lameness exam. Feeling a little overwhelmed at the volume of information packed into this 30 minute video. Thank you.
I commend you for even watching this type of video and even considering that there could be a new pathway to understanding your horse's behavior. Good luck and remember to be gentle with yourself and your horse during this process. 😊
Thank you, I’ve been diving into so many areas and taking courses to improve my overall understanding of everything horse related, from the standpoint of the horse as he was created! It is so rewarding. Thank you for honoring my quest, because it helps me keep going!!
Kudos to all the people behind this enlightening production. Every horse owner and rider should watch this in order to understand the bigger picture of an animal's behavior and what their cues are telling us.
Thank you so much for this super important insight. It was very emotional for me as well… I had a lame horse once, a really lame horse. She was a gipsyhorse from Ireland. I didn’t ride her a lot, had an accident with her (i broke my leg). Then i found her a nice herd with gipsyhorses, far away from our place. I visited her at least once a month, we spoke to each other, our connection was so strong.. She told me that she couldn’t take the pain any longer, so she was put humanely asleep.. It did cost me a lot of tears, but i felt and i knew that i have done the right thing for her…. Her name was Angel and she really was one
Please just retire this beautiful horse. She has done everything she could for you from a place of love and she deserves to be pain free, happy and not put under pressure to perform ❤
I think the owner has options to consider & she has not yet made any decision about treatment ( an operation which may lessen the mares everyday pain level, even just as she walks around in a retirement paddock), to just keep her, hand walk her & “ love on her”. She’s obviously open to keeping her mare as a retired friend.
The question is how do we find a vet qualified to do this type of exam? When every vet in your area tells you there’s nothing wrong but you KNOW there is, where do you go from there? How do you know who is an expert & who is just throwing stuff agains the wall to see what sticks? (Especially if you’re hours from a major metro area.)
I think it would be impossible to get what you’re looking for without spending more money than most people have. If the horse is able to simply be retired, that might be the best option in that situation.
I’d recommend looking at a vet that specializes in equine sports medicine. I hire an equine sports vet because my local large animal vets are simply not effective. Hopefully there’s a good sports medicine vet near you :)
So amazing and shocking! I need to see more, listen more. And God knows, I am trying already very much!!! Thank you for doing this. and thank you for caring!
Absolute stellar production, surely a necessary view for every single horse owner, trainer and veternarian. The horse is speaking to us with every single tool at their disposal: it is our responsibility, our duty and our respect to and for them to l i s t e n.
I didn't know A-N-Y of this when I had my gelding. I feel horrible. I'm trying to memorize all of this instantly...I want to keep all this info for future reference...
I feel the same way. I grew up with my mother’s gelding, but I only really got trying to know more about horse behaviour and thinking critically about the “traditional” way of training and keeping horses after he passed away. Since then I haven’t been around horses much, but if I will be in the future I will try my best to be as much informed as I can.
As someone who has only had unsound horses this hits home. But I want to be an equine behavioralist so that I can see these things and be able to help those horses in need.
I rode horses for 20 years, in Germany and Ireland. I rode the last time 13 years ago AND I decided after several years of reflections ( I am a spirituel person and empath), I promised to all horses never to ride again. I can feel and see the energies of all living beeings and horses sending me the message that they don't want to be ridden by humans at all. I did and do cry when I see the pain inflicted by humans on horses. They are some of the most amazing creatures god created. Humans all should bow and ask the horses for forgiveness for all the hurt caused. Horse riding is cruelty, even the more gentle horsemanship riding. Xxxxx to alll horses
Important food for thought: I am sharing my insights as a therapeutic Equine Bodyworker with 22+years of experience. I have seen over and over again the damage that has been done. Whether the reason is inability or unwillingness of the rider or trainer to recognize and address the 'horses body and behaviour language', the devastating results for the horse are the same. PAIN, and a poor quality of life. What we as stewards of our horses need to realize is that horses are flight & herd animals. In a herd a hierarchy gets established. They have to follow the leader. In a horse & rider combination the rider is the leader. Therefore your horse will continue to do what you ask of it. UNTIL its is in SO MUCH PAIN that it is no longer able to 'behave'. It is hardwired in its DNA to keep it together for as long as possible. To show its 'weakness' i.e. PAIN, life as they know it, is over with. It's the fight to keep their place in the herd. To not be left behind. So, as you can see, by the time you as the rider 'gets the message' you have a horse that is in a great deal of pain and has been trying to keep it together despite of its injuries and the issues have been getting worse one day at a time. Besides the injury issues that are going on in the legs, the body also takes a beating. Having to compensate for any kind of injury, no matter where it is in the body, puts a strain on other parts of the body. Once the 'original blue print' of the bio-mechanics is out of balance it takes proper veterinary treatment and alternative modalities for a whole body approach, as well as adding CORRECT RIDING without INTERFERENCE of the natural movement of the horse to set the stage for optimal recovery.An other crucial part is Correct shoeing, skilled dental work, an imbalance in dental work also adversely affects a balanced, fluid movement. Proper fitting of saddle, bit and bridle: clamping down a horses mouth with a tight /cranked nose band will put an end to how the rest of the musculo skeletal train is designed to function. It puts the brakes on how everything behind the horses head is able to adjust and function properly.
@@prairiewindsnaturefarm Awesome, spread the word! Coming to this realisation should be a true wake up call. Once you know better, you can do better. :)!
This lady being able to examine your horse is priceless. I think that I would do anything for this lady to examine my horse? I think my horse is Lam and I can’t figure out why I’m being told no but I believe he is.
This was a wonderful video with so much to learn from. I’ll definitely be more and more on the lookout for any of these behaviors in any horse I ride. Thank you!!!!!
I really wish they had taken a deeper dive into this from some other aspects. She talks about looking at the horse as a whole, but I didn't hear any discussion as to this horse's diet, living environment, conditioning program she was in before rest, history before this young lady owned her. She's being given information strictly in terms of imaging and X-rays, with options for treatment that only include surgery and injections. Were there any images taken of the hooves? Is she NPA that's possibly caused the overexertion of all these suspensories? You may be able to seriously correct her discomfort by addressing the feet. And maybe they touched on these things and had to trim it down for the video, we don't really know, but I feel like this poor girl is being given a poor prognosis on this horse without a full fledged investigation into all possibilities. I have seen many stories of horses with a plethora of problems like this, and it all comes down to needing repair on a whole body level - changing diet, lots of turnout, proper in hand work to fix biomechanic compensation, addressing hoof problems which have also been normalized in our horse world, the list goes on and on. I hope she continues to be investigative in finding answers for her horse - diving into the natural hoofcare realm really opened my eyes and helped my mare who was struggling with some of these same problems. Much love 💕
Dayna, if all those topics you mention in telation to the heneral husbandry of horses were covered in this doco, it would make a multi hour presentation. This doco is to bring to awareness “ behavioural indicators” which may signal to riders & others watching including Vets etc that the horse is in pain when it moves. This doco gives good fairly concise info about indicators & the processes involved with discovering a cause for pain signaling behaviour. It’san education about a specific topic & I think for many viewers this will be extremely helpful.
It's a big deal to put yourself out there on RU-vid for the armchair critics for sure. It takes either a lot of courage, sheer ignorance or lack of care of what other people think. This video is the prime example of watching a human behave badly around a horse and do things that it utterly hates. To go along with that, I'm disappointed there wasn't any emphasis placed on the condition of the hooves and the shoes as an item to look at and fix to affect the rest of the horse. Nerve blocks and trying to identify a spot that hurts does not identify the why and everybody knows that if you wear the wrong shoes while going to do an activity, you can absolutely come home with pain in all kinds of places other than your feet. So not only does this exemplify the old culture of horsemanship but it lacks in quality to identify the main problem with horses that are forced to ride and jump all the time, their feet are "killing them". That said, if this brings even the tiniest bit of awareness to this part of the horse world that is still living in the archaic "horsemanship" times of ignoring a horse to a level of "she's not trying to bite me" while chained up in cross ties literally trying to bite her, then great. That would be amazing and a good first step.
@@StableHorseTraining Ironically, you kind of are the ideal person to review something like this. I think you have not just a comprehensive understanding of horses, horse health & horsemanship, but also experience with hoof care. Either way, your comment was well thought out and I hope lots more people see it!
Thank-you Graham 🙏. This needs to be talked about. Even human physios know that “the problem that brought you here is not where it started…” that indeed the pain we experience as being in one body part is often not because there’s a problem IN that body part. Or as Ida Rolf said, “where you think it is, it ain’t.” Bodies are far too complex to say that chronic pain in body part [x] means body part [x] is the source and certainly not that [x] is what needs to be “fixed.” I think way too many sport horse owners end up playing Compensation Whack-a-Mole. If the underlying lifestyle issues aren’t addressed, “fixing” one thing means 3 months later there’ll be something ELSE that feels “totally random” but… isn’t. Feet seems like such a no-brainer to address. I know how inconvenient and difficult it can be to transition a horse to barefoot, but it’s literally the least we can do for them. Or, if shoes are absolutely needed, then at least to use non-steel shoes. I always amazed people think shaving vibrassae is cruel (it IS) but somehow don’t realize that horse feet are rich, crucial sensory organs and putting steel over them shuts down vital sensory information to the spinal cord and brain. We take their one interface to the ground, and basically shut it off. (Not to mention all the other issues). In this time when there are so many hoof protection options besides steel, there’s no excuse.
"This feels like the horse that I bought" TEARS!! May all of us with NQR horses take steps towards finding out what's happening and what to best to next.
Very interesting to watch. As a Bowen therapist, I find it hard with some horse owners/ riders that they need to listen to the horse as it tells them something is wrong. Some riders/ owners, and horses come to them, as they know the new owner is going to get help for them. My wish is for all horses to have an opportunity to be listened to and helped when needed.
My second comment, this very educational video did have me in tears because I saw the horse’s pain and how devastated Lauren was at the prognosis, I have experienced similar, with my horse basically reaching old age problems, tried to keep him as comfortable as possible with rest and hand walking, heathy treats, acupuncture, chiropractic, until he needed to be put to rest, my angel horse , had him 17 years passed at 26. Did low level dressage thinking it was easier on his body than jumping. Now have 2 younger horse s and ride low level dressage , at 77 still riding.❤❤
Excellent work. Perhaps we might realise that species-specific environments make animals (and us) the happiest. That doesn't include locking an animal in a tiny box for 23 hours a day where they eat and poop or yank a piece of metal in their mouth. Don't agree? You live like that for a week.
This relates so much to what I'm going through with my horse. A real eye opener. It's also sad as I think my horse may not be able to come back 100%. Lots of thoughts going on in my head and of course I have economic constraints. Great information in this video and well explained.
What a terrific message, thank you for this! It makes me feel sad but at the same time so happy with this educational presentation. I feel very fortunate to be a part of a human herd that allows the horse to express itself and that we listen. My personal horse training program "The Tao of Horsemanship Mastery Membership Training Program" teaches me step by step how to achieve the relationship of my dreams with my horses while developing them properly with Connection, Consistency and Attunement. I am so grateful to you all for carrying this message!!!Thank you! Thank you!💖
this is such a useful and important documentary. I wish the music weren't so distracting. Incessant heavy, dramatic underscoring detracts from the point being made rather than supporting it. However, Im fighting to ignore it because the information being presented is so helpful and I am very grateful to you for having made this film.
This is a good and model horse owner. I'm happy for this fortunate horse. Dr. Dyson is such a benefit to the equestrian world. I hope all the owners that consult with her listen carefully and do the best for their horses.
I actually think that instead of wanting to please us despite being in pain, they simply give up since most people do not listen. Most people do not understand their horse and write off signs of discomfort as being moody or disrespectful. Even humans will get tired of trying if nobody listens, so they comply as they always do and just endure. It would be so nice to have it be a requirement to learn about equine language first before being allowed to get a horse, it would definitely help avoid so much problems for the animals and educate humans alongside. A win-win, really, but given most people don't even 'believe in' equine language I doubt it'll be a thing. Ever, really. Hopefully people will educate themselves more, be it with videos like this or learning these things and raising their children and students with this knowledge. I'm at least hopeful this sort of thing will help. So thank you for making this video. :)
extremely educational video, thank you for spreading awareness! There is a horse at my barn that I worry about but everyone says that he's fine. He is abnormally angry and sensitive when grooming. He is too old to be ridden as a school horse in my opinion, and this video gives me more confidence in my opinion!
Always something to learn . Very eye opening and great to go through and watch ! Very courageous and amazing girl for putting herself and her horse out there. Would love to know how they are both doing now x
Straightness training helps! The natural asymmetry creates a lot of problems/ pain for horses. I love the work of Marijke de Jong; to help riders help their horses create balance and move without pain.
I loved the care and the science of the diagnostics, one way of listening. I know you folks love horses so I am perplexed why animal communicators are not part of your protocol. Going direct to the horse early on could have prevented long term issues.
This is why I gave up working with horses. I provided very positive treatment so the horse could recover from all these problems noted here. All this information is very good, finally?, but they are missing the basic understanding of the mechanics of anatomy. Meaning understanding the functioning body. They are talking about everything that's wrong, but not WHY the horse has all these problems. It's like owning a race car and ignoring the idea of proper tires for that car. Then sratching your head when the suspension fails. 80% of domestic horses are crippled or lame, but they want to please us anyway. This broke my heart after meeting so many horses with the exact same problems. (Thousands in 20 yrs) Everyone is missing this topic and just want to do injections and drug therapy which doesn't remove the cause, it just covers it up for a time and allows you to keep riding the lame horse. So sad. My heart couldn't take it anymore 💔.
I know something isn't right with my beloved boy. Maybe he just needs injections again but maybe something more is going on. Watching this was very helpful in my awareness and hoping I can figure out with my vet, what is really going on. He is an almost 16 year old OTTB that raced until 5 then has been a 3 day eventer since. I am sure there is some arthritis somewhere. He has many of these signs; reluctance to move forward and be in front of my leg, sometimes he grunts when landing after jumps, he often tends to invert and throw his head up with any upward transitions, he grinds his teeth and is very active with his mouth. It is so easy to just ignore and not realize that these are signs of pain. I am pretty sure I need a different jump saddle and the fit is just not right for him. I hope with my resources, I can help him in any way I can and figure out where the pain is truly coming from. Thank you for making this video.
Such a beautiful and lovely work and production. What a great heart for horses of all the actors do have. Good luck for further horses, and thank you for this excellent work, hope the world will change step by step a bit more to respect these big wonderful animals and their health ❤
