THE 4K FAULT - There's some good news and some bad news... but mainly good! 

Home video discs have always given a few problems. 4K looked for a while like it was going to be a major failure rate but thankfully it's far lower than feared. Buy with confidence and if you do come across a faulty disc in the future hold off buying a replacement until you can grab one for a tenner or less. It's not worth worrying about. John.

On Amazon Canada I return them when faulty.

@@moviecollector5920 You’re right,John, but I’ve grown so weary of double dipping, no matter its impetus, that I just want to minimize it as much as possible. I love your channel and hope to see more content.

Just a follow up hearing or reading about an American pressing plant whose quality control was so bad that down the line many discs were going into laser rot prematurly. Mostly the discs affected were Warner DVDs even new discs were faulty upon first play. It would be interesting to know if European or US versions of the same disc showed the same failure rate. Mike

@@robertrobitaille320 I don't know they'd accept them when they're years old over here Robert. John.

If people start to send me the correct contact details and addresses then I'll compile them all into one place for everyone. John.

That's the stress I also found with the situation when the first five discs with the fault turned up in quick succession Robert. The good news is only Hunter Killer has turned up since - two faulty copies as it goes. Check for residue on your copy of Jaws as it may be something simple. I've re-watched a lot of discs and the problem is nowhere near as common as I feared so this story is more good news than bad news. John.

Thank you Boss. It's always easier to talk in front of the discs and simply pull them out. John.

👍🏻😎

That's a good solution Chris. So far I've re-purchased five discs I think so it's not exactly been that costly. I think I've only spent £39.50 replacing the faulty discs. John.

How do you deal with the hdr layer?

@@jon4715 what do you mean by “deal with”? I use makemkv to rip the entire movie file (not the entire disc). I can deselect any audio tracks I don’t want, subtitles, etc. The ripped file plays through JRiver media player on an HTPC in my dedicated cinema room and through Plex/Infuse via Apple TV in all other rooms of the house.

Nice video as usual. As @chriswhite8717 mentioned, I too have a media server that I rip my DVDs and Blu-ray onto and it does a very good job of things. However I am after a Blu-ray copy of "Kelly's heroes" if there is a copy available. That film is a classic and it is well worth watching.

Evening Martin. I've been in the home cinema tonight with Trevor from Double Bill Movies and we've really done a job on the new 4K of True Lies and achieved pretty good results with it. I think we may try to do a video about it in the morning and put it up on Trevor's channel. Back to the 4K fault. I'll have a look for the discolouration at the outer perimeter of the disc as I haven't spotted this previously. I'm not too bothered if it's only a handful of discs that have gone down but I was thinking the overall problem would be much worse. The hassle of sending discs back isn't something I relish the thought of but if a load more faulty discs turn up then I will start doing just that. Thank you for confirming my findings. Many others have done so too so I think we can state with some authority that this problem does exist even if it's not as catastrophic as I was fearing some time ago when the first five in my collection turned up in short order. John.

@@moviecollector5920 Thanks for your reply, John. I used to manage laser disc and DVD quality control at a well-known label and we always traced 'laser rot' back to the specific pressing facility and stamping machine. Problems were typically in batches, so the issue could usually be contained. I've met you a couple of times at BFCC, John, so we'll have a chat at the next one, I'm sure!

I've been through all of that Rocky. None of these things have proved to be the solution for any of these six discs. It does seem to be laser rot. John.

Same here

Finger prints will cause problems at the disc edge and using a microfibre cloth is definitely the way to go. But as John says, that's not always the issue.

I haven't come across any more faulty discs since this video so it does seem that the main cause was living in the wettest area of Earth (Cornwall) until our move 2.5 years ago. Hopefully that means our problems are behind us now but I'll keep looking whenever I have some time. I have come across a couple of Blu-rays with similar faults and loads of DVDs so it's not isolated to 4K but I believe they're more susceptible owing to the tiny data contained. John.

Have you re-watched all your discs though? I haven't. Only found Hunter Killer (two copies of it now) with the fault since the first five showed up in quick succession and I've re-watched a lot of discs since then but nowhere near all of them. John.

@@moviecollector5920 Yes, I rewatch all my discs every year, and they all play perfectly. This is a very strange issue that you have.

I had a problem with my Oppo 203 not playing a lot of my 4ks. I sold the Oppo for a Panasonic ub9000, and I haven't had any problems. It plays all my 4ks flawlessly

I am wondering if it’s a result of aging equipment and disc manufacturing imperfections.

@@robertt9342 That is possible. But the exact same results on two different players seems a little unlikely... but you never know. John.

Morning Dave. A colleague had a regular similar issue to what you've seen with The Abyss. Longer discs get towards the end on his system and then go through the same process you've just had. A change of player was required for my friend but the new player did not meet all his requirements so he's on the lookout for another that more closely matches his outgoing machine which I think is a Sony. I've not come across any more 4K discs with the notorious 'fault' yet but I'm sure I'll find a few hiding away up there. John.

Thank you for posting this. Quite a few reports of one or two disc failures that correspond to what I call 'the 4K fault' but nothing quite as extensive as the list you've put up. I have getting on for 300 discs and I've only found six faulty discs so far so it isn't as bad as I first feared. Keep your eyes open for cheap replacements which is what I've done - £39.50 only so far for five replacements which is pretty darned good. John.

Marc, I had an email notification from RU-vid with your comment and I've mentioned humidity to a lot of other commenters since because we lived in Cornwall until a couple of years ago and that is the wettest area on earth so your suggestion certainly holds water! Sorry about the awful pun. Enough reports have come in from other collectors to now confirm there is a problem. Perhaps many more will start using 'the 4K fault' label because it does seem to sum it up. John.

I think it's down to manufacturing flaws Byron whereby the silver layer starts to break down after heat from the laser. Fortunately the problem isn't anywhere near as bad as I feared when I found those first five discs in quick succession. Only one more has turned up in recent re-watched of so many 4K discs. John.

One day I'll get one of those disc polishers to see if that can solve the problem but the evidence so far does suggest laser/disc rot on the six discs I've cited in this video. What a bummer! Still, it was looking much worse initially so it's been a bit of a relief to find only one more faulty disc after that initial five all turned up in quick succession. John.

I've noticed that is highly prevalent on discs manufactured in mexico, I wonder if specific factories use more of that oily shmoo than others lol

I've only ever come across a residue build-up on a DVD before but a few people have reported this oil like film on some discs. It's not the problem with any of the six 4K discs I've cited here but high humidity has been suggested as a cause and that sounds about right to me. John.

I can skip through the fault on a couple of mine but others won't allow it other than a skip to the next chapter whereupon I then have to try to go back to the ending of the affected area. It's all a bit of a palava at times but at least these discs don't cost hundreds of pounds and they're cheap to replace. The general consensus is that these faults tend to occur at layer changes or thereabouts which does make sense. It also looks to be caused by high humidity so don't ever live in Cornwall like we used to because it only stops raining five days a year down there!!! John.

The stupid name of 'Blu-ray' didn't help either Andrew. 'HD DVD' was self-explanatory and everyone would have known what it was and the inevitable benefit but the Blu-ray label helped to kill the home video disc market. It seems to have recovered a little owing to the more widely adopted '4K' label now but the damage that was done is never likely to be fully undone. Hopefully the title of this video won't make people think there is a generic problem with the format and therefore 4K is not worth purchasing. I hope it's more of a good news story because it was looking for a while to me like the format was a disaster. Thankfully it's nothing of the sort. John.

@@moviecollector5920 That's good news. There needs to be a studio-recognised file format which allows viewers to legally store movies however they wish, negating potential issues with disks. Pigs may also fly, who knows?

So how long before you have to replace the replacements. Seriously, if that was me then I’d have given up buying discs altogether! Luckily, I have never had a faulty disc and I own around 1,500 discs, mostly BDs but around 700 4K discs. I use a Panasonic UB820 player but did have loads of disc freezing issues when I had a Sony X800 4K player but the discs would always play fine the second time and have ben flawless on the Panasonic. The so-called “disc rot” was especially prevalent in the DVD era, something to do with the paint seeping into the disc surface causing a sticky residue, but I always assumed that quality control had massively improved with BDs and then 4K discs. I mean they are almost impossible to scratch so they must be more resilient than DVDs, right?

@@DoctorHades Like I said... Allow people to download files, not order disks. They can then store them however they wish. Disk, hard drive, memory stick, punch card, paper tape, etc... 😉

@@DoctorHades Read through a load of the comments on here and you'll find plenty of people reporting similar problems. It's to be expected with any disc format but with us all sharing information we might get to the bottom of it for sure. So far it looks like high humidity is the biggest cause of laser/disc rot. Don't live in a wet climate seems to be the best advice... and never pause a 4K disc! John.

Good comment there Steffen. I had considered the heat to the player issue so moved it away from all other equipment some time ago. My other player has nothing else around it and never has had but the same faults in exactly the same places are displayed. It seems that the whole run of Hunter Killer discs has a poor silver reflective layer as both my discs have the fault in just about the same place as your copy. Fortunately mine are just far enough apart that I can play one and stop it when the problem first appears, chuck the second in and it will continue from that point and go to the end having started beyond the point where that second disc has a fault. What a palava! John.

Panasonic ub9000, 820 and 420 turn off the automatic feature. Will solve heat problem. Player will take few seconds more to turn on. But good idea to give player space to breathe.

@@robertrobitaille320 I'll have a look for anything still set to 'Automatic' Robert. Thank you for the tip. John.

@@moviecollector5920 only speaking for panasonic models I mention. Its under system panel tab, than you have a quick start option, turn it off. No this trick is mention. Only on a forum. It work rihht away. Now my player are cold. Before they were hot even when not in use. Of ub9000 is much bigger model it les of a problem . I just turn it off now. Have this model since 1 year about. Cheers.

@@moviecollector5920 Interesting. Thanks John. As I said, it has to be a combination of more than one factors as that "old" high end Oppo player plays that same disc without an issue.🙄 I'd still be interested in a different player...

True, but the susceptibility to scratches was well known to CD/DVD, so a hard coating was made a feature on Blu-ray. I've yet to find a scratch on even some of my oldest Blu-ray discs.

That certainly does help Joe. Thank you. It seems that the silver layer has to be more perfectly manufactured than any previous format for the disc to survive long term if it's going to get through any significant error rate. John.

​@@joshzwies3601Same with me. The only issues that I've ever had are whether or not it's a manufacturing error in the first place or the coating has been distorted in some way. I've had distorted coatings before when I ordered from the US throughout the Summer period. It must have been heat etc that affected it. I have also bought second hand blu rays from CEX before and the coating didn't look right at all! My player couldn't read the disc and after several attempts at cleaning, the disc was ruined and beyond repair. Only happened a handful of times over the past 8 years or so though!

Yeah, the density of pits is much higher, and you're correct that it is less fault tolerant as a result. I've had DVDs and Blu Rays which have arrived with visible scratches on them in the post, and they still played perfectly well. With 4K, most visibly long scratches have caused players to stutter and halt -- so when they arrive with any, I tend to return those discs straight away.

A triple layer 4k bluray has a maximum capacity of 100GB , double a standard double layer bluray. 3 layers of 33GB ad opposed to 2 layers of 25 GB. Issues that arise are more the extra layer than the extra capacity of the layers themselves.

Anything cinema related is up my alley GammonMaster but my interest in the motion picture is all down to Super 8 from the age of 3 years old. Today we can purchase movies on 4K home video discs for so little and I find that amazing. But it hasn't got the same excitement as occasionally managing to purchase one of the greats on Super 8 years ago. Expensive for sure but very special and I still treasure every print in my collection. John.

I just need more time to be able to watch some of them Daniel. John.

None have any marks or scratches at all. The laser heat does appear to be the way the flaws in the silver layer are revealed as indicated by my experience with Hunter Killer when I did have it on pause during the second viewing. It then immediately staggered until a complete lock up. John.

I have found a cleaning has helped even with no visible marks.

we clean our discs before every viewing, and blow compressed air into the player too, discs that previously froze at the same place every time magically stopped, almost never have the issue anymore

@@tompoynton I haven't tried compressed air. Still funny that two players display identical results on each of the six discs cited though. John.

@@moviecollector5920 I agree that is odd

There are quite a few fellow collectors confirming we all have similar issues. High humidity causing disc rot to set in has been suggested and this has a ring of truth for me as we used to live in the wettest part of England i.e. Cornwall. John.

I've found it on two so far I think Jack. The problem with 4K discs appears to have a different cause and that is high humidity. We no longer live in the wettest area on Earth so hopefully this problem is behind us now. I still have plenty of 4K discs to check though. John.

What a surprise that great film was Clive. But there are plenty of people out there who don't like it so it's not for everyone. I think many of them were expecting a horror film for whatever reason rather than a psychological thriller. I've had my Triumph TR7 since I was a young lad so you can imagine how thrilled I was to enjoy that on screen ride in a TR4 through the West End of London in 1965, Pure movie magic. John.

That hasn't been the case with any of my discs Lee. Glad it sorted your problem out though. John.

@@pieter6361 Various players and tvs can do it. I've seen DV working with android TVs and external boxes like Nvidia shield and apple tv. Software for example would include options like Plex and Jellyfin.

@@pieter6361 Looks like my other comment got deleted but you can play back with apple tv etc using jellyfin

Many others have reported similar issues to what I call 'the 4K fault' now and it does appear to be a real thing but a minor problem at worst. I've worked in IT for too long so I don't want to have to bother with RAID 5 arrays and backup systems any longer. Work out the cost of doing all that properly and you'll be into the thousands of pounds so it seems that the best solution is to just replace the occasional disc that fails. Don't live in high humidity areas and never use pause is probably the best advice. John.

We're going through a whole lot of LaserDiscs lately and so far we haven't turned up any more with the dreaded laser rot. Most are about 30 years old though so perhaps the problem was mainly seen on earlier discs. John.

I second (agree with) your comment about turning 4K upscaling off, on Sony players. I noticed this setting would make some of my low quality old DVDs look worse with upscaling turned on.

I think the Apollo 11 disc is a single layer but I may be wrong. There's not very much on it though. They all played fine originally and then a year or more later the problems have begun. 2001 in particular, is getting worse and worse which points to laser/disc rot. John.

I had frequent problems with lots of discs on my Sony player until I turned off the 4k upscaling and also adjusted a couple of other settings after finding a video here on You Tube about that player.

@@DavidDunneUK It is possible there's something in the Panny players David but I haven't come across it yet. Please let me know if you come across anything. John.

Return of the King was freezing in two chapters.

My two Panasonic's give exactly the same results on all six discs cited in this video Russell so it is the discs. It's possible another make and model of player will successfully error correct some or all of them but if it's rot caused by previously living in the wettest area of earth (i.e. Cornwall) then the rot isn't likely to get better and eventually I expect nothing will ever play them at all. Then again, the laser rot on that Dante's Peak disc never seemed to continue rotting throughout but I'll have to check that again now that I've thought about it. John.

It seems that high humidity caused our problems so if you live in a wet area of the world then possibly the solution is to run a dehumidifier in the room you keep your discs. We moved a few years ago and the problems appear to be behind us now. John.

Interesting. It's as though the player is trying to do more processing than it has power for. I don't think I have any 'enhancements' on within either of my players. But these discs did play fine when first purchased so that's a factor to keep in mind. John.

I have to admit that after a lifetime of backups and massive drive array solutions, I can't be bothered with all that for a home video collection. John.

Hdds also degradate due to ferromagnetic degradation. Depending on use, it could take from 10 to 15 years, or even less than that.

@@Groucho3321 once you extract the data from the plastic discs, you can keep transferring it to the newest available storage technology indefinitely. It is no longer locked into plastic disc jail.

That's a good summing up. Thank you. High humidity where we used to live is the apparent cause of our issues so it seems our problems are behind us now. John.

I still haven't watched Cross of Iron so I'll keep my ears open for the children singing to the opening titles. Many fellow collectors have reported the 4K fault with their discs and a good cause of high humidity has just come in which rings true for me. The heat from the laser and then sitting on the shelf during consistent rain for many months might just have tipped the six discs I've cited over the edge if they had manufacturing flaws to the reflective layer. John.

I think all players tend to vary from different manufacturers Axel but this issue I've reported is consistent on both my Panasonic players on all the discs cited. It's possible a different make might manage to error correct one or two of them but if I'm correct in my assertion of laser rot then the problem is only going to get worse so eventually nothing will play any of them successfully. John.

I was only 11 years old when I first saw it. Jaws is probably a big reason why I've enjoyed cinema so much... until the big downgrade in 2011 I suppose but I'm still able to enjoy occasional real films in cinemas so it ain't over yet. John.

That's the way cinema should be Jesse. It was all part of the magic of the movies so we're lucky that there are still a few cinemas that can still give us that magic. The IMAX GT 15/70 projector is huge and because of the incredible work it's doing for us is louder than anything else. I still want to get to the BFI IMAX to see this 4K blow-up for myself but a lot has been getting in the way and still is. John.

The good news is that I still haven't found any more faulty discs so it does appear that the suggestion of high humidity being the cause is true. We no longer live in the wettest area on earth so it looks like we left the problems behind us. I may still be able to get those six faulty discs working again one day too because I do plan to purchase one of those disc polisher/resurfacer gizmos eventually. John.

It was difficult to find when I purchased my copy years ago Reuben so it's good to know it's now in HMV for £20. I'll keep a look out for a cheap replacement in CEX myself now that you've mentioned it. It's possible there was a production run which had some flawed discs in there susceptible to the fault. The good news is that I found it difficult to discern a difference between the 4K and the Blu-ray at the time of this review although we've purchased another video projector since then so the difference may be a little more obvious now. I hope you enjoy the disc. I actually met one of the chaps who worked on creating it a couple of weekends ago and he was surprised to meet anyone who actually had a copy. A chap I was with also had a copy so that made for an even bigger surprise. John.

I have two different Panasonic players and both display the same identical faults to the frame. Different players have different error correction capabilities so it's possible another make or model will get through a faulty part of a disc but for how long if it's a rotting issue? I think I prefer a disc problem to a player problem as we may find we'll all be replacing our players every year just so all the discs continue to play. High humidity looks to have been the cause of my problems which are now behind us because we moved out of the rain forest of Cornwall a couple of years ago! John.

I've offered to create a list of contacts at the studio distributors so we can all make them aware of issues and hopefully return the discs in question. If you have any such contacts let me know and I'll start to compile them into a list within the description of this video. John.

I've just had notification of a comment come in that suggests and seems to confirm that high humidity causes disc rot to set in. That has struck a chord as our last address was in Cornwall which is the wettest place in the world! John.

Thank you Scott. John.

No residue on any of these discs Paul. Sony's don't seem to have such capable error correction abilities as Panasonic players but I dare say some that will no longer play on a Panny would play on a Sony. Disc rot seems to be the cause with my six faulty discs. John.

I had figured that the data would be tiny compared to previous disc formats so would be more likely to cause issues. There's nothing on the six discs cited but it is possible there is invisible scratching around the outer perimeter caused by the player although that seems unlikely as it hasn't adversely affected every 4K disc in my collection. Laser/disc rot therefore seems the most likely cause and it's been confirmed that high humidity is a cause of this. We lived in the wettest area on earth until a couple of years ago so that does make sense. By the way, I always try to answer or respond to every comment as I appreciate them all. Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts about this problem which has turned out to be a much smaller problem than it first appeared it was going to be. John.

Latest possible suggestion for a cause is high humidity. Even a dehumidifier running in our media room at our last address doesn't appear to have been able to keep the air dry enough if that turns out to be true but it certainly has a ring of truth to it. Damp setting disc rot in. Quite possible I think. John.

The trouble is with this flaw in some discs is that you only find out when you re-watch a year or more down the line. I can't think of any films I'd wish to have as a 4K. It's something I'm quite often asked but perhaps because I have most of my favourites on film 4K discs are not as important as they otherwise would be. John.

I do purchase quite a few discs just out of curiosity too though but they're generally fairly cheap (to say the least). I planned to keep this channel to a high standard from the first video I ever created for it so that people would be able to watch just about any video and expect it to be a serious look at whatever the subject was or is. A few of my purchases during this time have been to review the discs so I have quite a few that I'll probably never watch again and one or two that I never watched all the way through as I know the films off by heart and could write the scripts out verbatim... Alien for example. Just watched enough of that to say how closely it represented a 35mm print. John.

Good to know. I only stumbled across the first five in my collection because I often check that my reviews are being consistent and to do that requires sticking other discs back in to take an updated look. And that usually means the very best picture quality discs go in more than others. I was beginning to think we had a bit of a disaster on our hands because those first five appeared one after the other in a short space of time. Fortunately it looks like high humidity is the cause and we moved two years ago so hopefully the problems are behind us now. John.

It's possible there is something else going on but each of the discs I've cited have the problem in the same places on two different players. Have they both been ageing at a similar rate and a newer player with superior error correction may manage to get through the adversely affected areas? But I expect the afflicted discs will continue to degrade so that idea is probably academic really. The good news is that I still haven't found any other faulty discs. John.

It's not that common Lasse and I suspect it only became so obvious here because I have to go back and look at previous discs so often to ensure I'm giving consistent results in review videos. I also used pause quite often to write notes which might be an important factor if my assertion of laser rot is correct. I re-watched up to 40 4K discs and only found Hunter Killer and that was possibly because of pausing it to make a cuppa'. John.

Very interesting issue. It definitely raises some concerns about what will happen to these discs over time. Thanks for the great content!

Consider whether this may be more a result of the shortcomings of your 4K Player. I had an entry level player that got hung up ALL the time. I suspect too much data for the processor to handle, maybe? I got the Magnetar UDP-900, and I haven't had a single problem with any of the exact same 4K discs.

@@CarlScherz Afternoon Carl. I did say in the video that the same problem is identical in two different players. The fact that each of the six discs cited were fine the first time they were played does seem to suggest some sort of rotting issue. John.

Don't get too concerned about it Mr. Braddock as my investigations have confirmed the problem isn't nearly as widespread as I first feared. And where there is a problem I've replaced the faulty discs for a maximum of a tenner. It's not worth worrying about. This is more of a good news story as a result. John.

@@moviecollector5920 You say that, John, but if you've found so many discs I would say that's quite a percentage (i.e. an unacceptable percentage in my view) of faulty discs just sitting there in your own collection! Most of my 4Ks I've only watched once so far so this has concerned me a bit, admittedly. Thanks for highlighting it though. Paul

It's a hassle though. I'm sick and tired of using computers all the time so putting a CD sized video disc in a drive and selecting PLAY is what I prefer to do. John.

​@@moviecollector5920it's really a do it once and forget it, with just selecting the movie from a list and playing it instantly

I get it, I dislike it as well, but these discs are so vulnerable to dirt and fingerprints. Rather have them fail while copying them over to my server, then having them fail while watching them.

Nice, my comment got censored by RU-vid again

@@MrBrax It's not in my 'held for review' section Mr. Brax. Please try again and perhaps slightly rework what you said just in case there was something misinterpreted. John.

I have done that once or twice Justin but can't remember the outcome. I think I recall a faulty disc still halting at the damaged point. John.

Thank you Alan. I hope this all came across in a positive manner because initially it looked like I had a disaster on my hands with five faulty discs turning up in quick succession but when I started looking further I only found one more - Hunter Killer. What a relief. Samsung never did have a particularly good reputation with their 4K players. The reports about Sony players indicate they don't have such good error correction capabilities as Panasonic players but if you don't have any discs with this possible 4K fault then they should cope with everything fine anyway. It looks like my collection has suffered due to living in Cornwall until we moved over two years ago because it's the wettest place on earth! John.

@@moviecollector5920 oh it was very positive John. Like yourself I love collecting 4k discs with a passion. My credit card isn't perhaps quite as keen 😅 but such is life!

I've had them all under bright lights and all six look perfect. No residue is evident when cleaning. I've been through everything and mentioned the problem several times in previous videos to generate suggestions and input and nothing so far seems to have fitted as a solution but I'll keep an open mind. It does seem to be laser/disc rot and possibly caused by the fact that I sometimes write notes for review videos and therefore have pressed pause. The best advice for everyone therefore seems to be obvious. John.

There are reports of the differences between Sony and Panasonic coming in and that appears to be down to the error handling withing the different makes. What doesn't work on one may still work on the other. The fact that all six of the faulty discs I've come across all played perfectly the first time through suggests a malaise has set in after that first play and that's why I've suggested laser rot. It does make sense, particularly now that humidity levels have also been cited as a factor. John.

Many have reported that 4K discs require cleaning sometimes before they will play properly Gary but I have never come across that particular problem. I have had one disc that had a fault from new but there was no residue on it or anything obvious so it must have just been a flaw during production which does happen occasionally. With regard to The Fifth Element, when I did a review of that disc I had many comments tell me the US version was the superior release. Bit rates and all that sort of thing aren't as important as many tend to think but it does mean you can put a RU-vid video up, slag something off and get loads of views. Slagging off videos always seem to generate a bigger following. This particular video is supposed to be more of a good news story because the 4K fault is not as big a problem as it first appeared to be. In fact, it's a tiny problem so I think you should give the US 4K release of The Fifth Element a try and see what you think. John.

A lot of reports confirming the 4K fault within these comments now. Does appear to be fairly widespread but not a huge issue except perhaps for people living in high humidity areas. John.

I need to watch my 4K of Blade Runner again sometime as I haven't run it since my RU-vid review three years ago. It could be that our players are aging and the lasers are not picking up the information as well as they once did but that doesn't explain why a replacement disc then plays fine all the way through so I'm likely wrong there. Enjoy your new home cinema now it's finished. John.

High humidity has been confirmed as a factor in this so that does appear to explain our six faulty discs. We lived in Cornwall and it doesn't come any wetter than that so a likely answer has been established. Don't move to areas of the world with excessive rainfall and never put a 4K disc into pause mode seems to be the advice as a result of this video. It seems like the problem discs you've had have had some sort of invisible residue or something on them. I've tried cleaning my faulty discs thoroughly but no banana I'm afraid. John.

@@moviecollector5920 Sorry to hear that. Hmm, excessive rainfall, guess it’s not really made for us Brits then!😄 I hope you fair better in the future with your 4K collection. I recall an odd quirk with my DVD of Cruel Intentions. It would always freeze at the same point. Though if I started it fresh at a later chapter and then jumped to first chapter it would play without fault. Probably won’t work with 4K, but worth a mention.

@@physicalmediaodyssey It stops raining for about five days a year in Cornwall.

@@moviecollector5920 That’s some record. All the best with your collection, and thanks for the great videos 👍

It also had a Super 8 feature release by Marketing Film International in about 1978/79 but I never saw that one. In fact, I've never seen it since a television broadcast in about 1980 when I was surely too young to fully appreciate all the nuances of the plot. Hopefully this time it will have a bigger effect on me. John.

Most of the issues do seem to be the layer changes. Purchase a new copy of the disc though and the new disc plays without the fault. Apparently my issues were due to living in the wettest area on planet earth (Cornwall) so now that we've moved the problems appear to be behind us. John.

Two players with identical faults on each of the six discs does seem to point to a disc problem Floyd. It's still possible it's caused by tiny, invisible scratches somehow applied by the player but this seems unlikely. There has been a plausible explanation from another collector who lives in a particularly humid part of the world and that is high humidity. As we lived in Cornwall until a few years ago that suggestion holds water! John.

@moviecollector5920 Thanks for the reply John, perhaps I'm suffering from a case of denial..... whatever is going on its not filling me with confidence.

@@floydianpink2524 I would always expect an occasional disc failure with any digital video format Floyd but it appears I've had more than anyone would fear because of the wet environment. If you're in a dryish area then you probably have nothing at all to worry about. And even if a disc or two do show up sometime they've been cheap for me to replace so they probably will be for you too. So far I've spent £39.50 replacing five 4K titles. Peanuts considering what real films cost. John.

@moviecollector5920 I live in Aberdeen about a mile from the North Sea so now I'm even more worried!!! I have nearly 400 4k discs so it's definitely causing some anxiety. Thankfully my only issue thus far wa is the Trainspotting disc which I managed to rectify. It's very strange that the issues people are having seems to be with layer changes on 100GB discs.....

@@floydianpink2524 We now live in a fairly new build so there's little chance of damp getting in. If you're in a house with a bit of condensation or humidity perhaps have a dehumidifier running during the night in the room with your disc collection. It may not be humidity that's the cause but I don't suppose we're going to find out quickly, if ever, so it's probably a good precaution. Cornwall is a seriously wet area so if high humidity is the cause then we were ripe for the picking! John.

I think that's to be expected with any of these CD sized video discs Steven. My 4K issues largely seem to be due to having lived in a high humidity area but we moved so hopefully the problems are behind us now. John.

Watched it last night. Good fun but I think we all need to be pre-prepared for it before watching as it's a little violent and chock-full of terrible language. The blurring at the base of the image during quite a number of shots wasn't the best example of film making ever though. A faulty or misaligned lens for sure. John.

@@moviecollector5920 It's very definitely a guilty pleasure film of mine.

A lot of people have reported similar problems to you with Sony players since I first started talking about the problems I was having many videos ago. It is frustrating to have to faff about when a disc won't play properly but my six 'faulty' discs all played the first time around and now they won't on either player. High humidity looks to have been the cause so hopefully the issues are behind us now. It seems that you'll have to get a Panasonic player at some point. I think they start at around £100 so perhaps that's the way to go as they all do the same thing providing you can run off just one HDMI port. John.

Enough reports have come in to seem to confirm it Craig. Humidity seems to be the best suggested cause because we lived in Cornwall which is the wettest area on earth. John.

These are cheap home videos so inevitably there will be a few problems, there always has been. 4K is an unbelievable format and the value is unsurpassed. However, the tiny data does seem to make it more susceptible to data read errors. If you are also living in a high humidity area then you may start to come across more faulty discs than you otherwise would but now that we know that is the cause we will ensure the dehumidifier is in place if we ever have to move back to the wettest area on earth. We moved a few years ago so it looks like our 4K problems are behind us now. I spent £39.50 replacing five discs that had succumbed to the humid air of Cornwall and that was good news. It's also good news that five faulty discs turned up in short order a few years ago and since then I've only found one more. No doubt some of the smaller distributors would happily replace faulty discs but I haven't come across anything from such companies as Second Sight or Arrow that have the problem. The 4K fault is a problem I'd been reporting on occasionally for quite a long time but is not the big problem it was initially looking to be and that is therefore good news. I hope you will agree but if not I would prefer it if any replies and comments are friendly because we're all movie enthusiasts on here. John.

Sorry for the delay in replying Fred. I've been a little tied up working on a video for Trevor at Double Bill Movies as he brought the 4K of True Lies over so we went through all of that quite thoroughly. An interesting disc that we managed to get to look rather good in the end. Back to the subject in hand though, I always get a little concerned when I run a disc for anyone in here. I'm actually more relaxed screening a film which probably tells me something... like I'm nuts perhaps! To be serious, these discs are home videos and we've been taking them too seriously. If I took home video more seriously I'd have a massive RAID 5 array and an even bigger automated backup system to try to guarantee longevity. What a major investment that would be so I'd rather just purchase a few home video discs and not worry about it all. I should have been at the PPT AGM the other day but when I finally looked at how to get there it seemed almost impossible other than driving and getting around the country in a car now is also almost impossible so I didn't make it. I want to see that VistaVision projector in the metal. John.

I'll try to get people to let me know the contact details of anyone they've dealt with so we can return faulty discs in the future. Different players have varying levels of error correction capability but if the fault is laser/disc rot then it's unlikely to work forever. John.

Your experience does seem to confirm that suspicion with 'pause' then Lee. Sometimes discs don't give us the option to recommence where we left off so when I have a situation now when I should pause I let the movie run on and then fast forward back to where we were. Perhaps that will be an easier solution. It does seem unbelievable that the laser could do this but I don't suppose anyone ever checked it thoroughly enough. I doubt it would be all discs though, just a few with a somehow flawed silver layer and that seems to give more credence to the 'rot' theory which might not be rot just an inadequate silver layer, particularly at the outer perimeter of the disc perhaps. High humidity is has been suggested by a fellow collector with a similar problem to me and we did live in Cornwall so that suggestion rings true. John.

@@moviecollector5920 Hello John, I have been checking to see if the laser could be damaging the disc on pause but most people seem to say that the laser switches off on pause and the still image goes into a cache with the disc still running so i do not think there is nothing to worry about.

@@Justin-fy7xk That sounds good to me. But another collector reported leaving a disc on pause recently and then immediately had the 4K fault when resuming. It's possible the players could be malfunctioning at times so perhaps we all need to beware of that. John.

The good news is that after those five discs turned up in quick succession only one more has appeared despite me looking for more. Apparently this fault is caused by high humidity which makes sense as we lived in the wettest area on earth until we moved a couple of years ago. It is a good news story after all... unless you live in a rain forest and don't have a dehumidifier! By the way, the five disc replacements cost a total of £39.50 so peanuts compared to having to replace a single film print of a trailer. John.

I don't think you'll be surprised to know that no end of cleaning any of these discs solves the issue. High humidity appears to be the cause so try to avoid living in a rain forest is probably the best advice. John.

You are the first to report the same 'fault' Juanjo. I do think it's caused by flaws in the silver layer so down to manufacturing errors that are exacerbated by the heat from the laser which then causes the rot to set in. Invisible but deadly! John.

I've not seen any film or fluid on a 4K disc ever so perhaps it's something that's done only in certain labs around the world and I haven't come across one yet. To leave a residue on though would be a manufacturing flaw so hopefully any lab making that mistake will have sorted out their processes by now. That's not been the problem with any of the six disc I've cited in this video though. High humidity appears to have been the cause and that rings true because until we moved we lived in an area where it rarely stopped raining. John.

@@moviecollector5920 Hi John The residue isn't a full "liquid" as such. It's a soft aerosol lubricant grease that's applied. If you have a brand new disc freshly unwrapped you may not have noticed, as no doubt like many your fingers never touch or go near the data face on the underneath as you handle physical media with respect. But... on a new/just opened title if you gently run your fingers along you notice the texture or sensation of something greasy or slightly slippery to the surface compared to an old DVD or CD where naturally it was either never applied or, worn off over time. But all pressing plants now use it as it helps disc cakes from sticking together. The full "audiophiles" treatment on a new disc would be to clean the underneath with lukewarm tap water and washing up liquid, then (this where I only perform the following on special title as a just in case) after dried, gently wipe with an anti static cloth on the top of the disc and the plastic jewel case and on a Dvd or Cd run through an ultrasonic cleaner, and once every 3 - 6 months, I'll wipe the DVD, Laserdisc and Blu Ray tray with the antistatic cloth. It might make a small difference. It certainly worth having a try on the gentle wash as the others mainly make a difference when the player is using an on board DAC and not as Digital Transport. Mind you.. just after you video RU-vid pushed a short video from a smaller channel, where his Panasonic UB820 has started having issues you mentioned and he went and bought a new player replacing his first (only three years old) 820 and that fixed his issue in the video, which is really sad if that's the now lifetime of a high end player. £500 every 36 months is a lot. Especially when I have Laserdisc players and DVD players pushing almost 30 years old soon. Hope some if it might help. Regards

@@jefffan171 It is possible something is aging in the players but for both of mine to display exactly the same fault on each of the discs I've cited in this video - identical staggering and everything else in exactly the same places seems a little unlikely. I did consider getting another player to start with but another £500 outlay for something that would return a few years down the line would be a waste of money. As it currently stands I have purchased second copies of the affected discs for £39.50. I do expect to find a few more but some of them I won't be bothered about so I'm hopeful that now we're living in a drier climate we won't get a repeat of what went on with our collection prior to the move. If there has been a residue on any 4K discs I've purchased then the laser must have dealt with it okay. By the time I had to clean each of the six discs with the 4K fault there was certainly nothing on the playing surfaces at all. All were a few years old by then of course because they all played perfectly the first time around so I had no need to look at them at first. John.

Another report has come in for Hunter Killer with the fault in the same area as the two discs I have. It is possible it's a batch production issue but I think it's more simply poor silver layers and the laser heat sets in disc/laser rot that it left to fester on the shelf. I'm open to alternative theories and solutions though of course. Plane had a problem from new so that one went back. The others have all been years down the line when the problems made themselves known. John.

I have two players. Identical results on both on all six discs cited. Apparently the deterioration has been caused by high humidity in the area of the world we used to live. John.

Sometimes it will be incompatibilities with the disc and player Jordan but I do suspect laser/disc rot to be the main issue. Slight marks on the discs are more critical on 4K too. If you do find any discs that have definitely gone down though hang around to get cheap replacements like I have. Only £39.50 in total for five replacements so far. John.

Marc Evans from Jamaica commented shortly before you did and he addresses this environmental possibility and says it's due to humidity. That makes sense because we lived in Cornwall and it doesn't get any wetter than that. John.

Maybe I should turn my player upside down! That might work as it's working with you down there!!! John.

Now there are three 4K discs I haven't checked - the Christopher Nolan Batman films. I'll get to them eventually. Thank you for reminding me about them. John.

How many 4K discs have you watched for a second time though? That's when the problem turned up for me as I was taking a fresh look at some regularly to ensure my reviews were consistent. John.

@moviecollector5920 upon a rough count, 10, I've rewatched 10 all the way thru. There are many many discs I've gone thru again to make my 4K reviews, but not an entire rewatch. Still just the one disc for me. I'll keep you posted if I encounter more

A lot of reports and evidence has come in that appears to support the laser/disc rot possibility. Whatever the cause there is certainly something going on. Different players will sometimes manage to play a disc that others can't but it's the fact that the six that I've cited in this video all played successfully the first time around that points to disc rot. I'll have to find a disc polisher at some point just to give the possibility of scratches one last try even though they're completely invisible to the human eye if they are there. John.

Now there's one 4K disc I should have checked already. A really surprising film that I didn't expect to enjoy at all but I thought it was pretty terrific. A good suggestion for the likely cause of me having so many discs with the 4K fault is the fact that we lived in a high humidity area before we moved a few years ago. It seems to make sense. John.

A lot of people have confirmed the Panasonic players tend to have better error correction capabilities than Sony players but I still expect there will be some exceptions. John.

Your problem sounds like a memory issue. I have a friend over here with a Sony player giving a similar issue. The fault I've detailed is thankfully much rarer than I thought at first. John.

I didn't enjoy it at all I'm afraid Daniel. I didn't care for the live action version either so it's a story that just didn't work for me. John.

I didn't have any issues either until I re-watched a couple a year or two down the line. This is part of the problem because we only know a disc has gone faulty until we actually sit through it all again. It could be I have a bigger problem because I've sometimes paused them to write some notes for a review. I don't know though. John.

But how do you know? Did you rewatch all of them recently?

@clewsys_movie_corner Which 4K bluray player do you use?

Panasonic UB820

@@MatheMachtSpaß I stumbled across the first five I found simply because I have to refresh my memory (and opinion) of some of the best 4K discs to ensure I'm being as accurate as possible for other reviews I do. Because so many displayed the fault it looked like it was going to be a major issue with the format and that's why I recently started re-watching so many 4K discs and I am now able to reveal that the problem is not as widespread as it first appeared. John.

Morning Andrew. I don't think your comment has posted twice but if it has I don't remember it. One of two other people have reported problems with their HUNTER KILLER discs so that one seems likely to have had a manufacturing flaw that was quite prevalent through a production run. The two Panasonic players I have are different models but they both display exactly the same faults on all the six discs cited in this video whereas none of the discs displayed a fault the first time they were played. That indicates to me a problem has developed after playing and while then sat on the shelf. HUNTER KILLER may have been caused by sitting on pause for a few minutes and it is possible the player malfunctioned and didn't disengage the laser. That shouldn't happen but how will we ever know if it does? However, a likely cause has been suggested by someone with multiple discs with the 4K fault and that has been caused by living in a high humidity part of the world. We lived in the wettest area on earth so it rings true. John.

@@moviecollector5920 that’s concerning, if they played fine first time but then didn’t again after, even in a different player, that suggests physical change to the disc. Despite being hit continuously for hours with a laser that should NOT happen, or at least not after a single watch. And as far as I’m aware, even when you put a player on pause it still continues to spin the disc, so I don’t see how the laser could do that amount of damage. The mention about moisture in the atmosphere ‘could’ be a contributing factor but even here in Scotland ( surprisingly much more wetter for only about 400 miles difference) if that were it I’d expect it to be worse. And only in the right circumstances - you don’t seem like the type of collector to leave your discs in a bad enough damp condition or that would leave discs lying in the air out of their case and not back in them once out of the player, and I doubt the air inside the player would be that much different in most players, so if that were the fact it’s a VERY short window for the damage to occur? And it’s not like the length of time like with disc rot on DVD’s, since 4k’s are relatively new. It just doesn’t add up for me. I’m wondering if it may be an issue of laser alignment, with 4k discs using an especially thin track on the disc surface (moreso than DVD or Blu Ray) to fit the huge amount of data required (some 4k movies are up to 100gb in size - more than double dual layered blu ray’s capacity) that the laser must need to be extremely focused and accurate to read the information. This would mean that the technology needs to be more accurate and whereas a blu ray might read fine if a laser is 10% our of alignment, a 4k might start to mis-read much sooner. It would also make the technology more susceptible to read errors for things like disc scratches or warping - could just be a flaw of the technology being pushed to the limits of what’s capable beyond a margin of error.

@@ahdvd I would expect the tiny data to be a factor but because of how tiny it must be it surely requires that everything is in near optimum condition and if anything adverse occurs to the disc such as a flawed silver layer then the disc presents the problem I've detailed. Five of them turned up in quick succession and it was looking like we had a disaster on our hands. Fortunately that hasn't proved to be the case so this is actually a good news story. We moved out of Cornwall and because it only stops raining there for five days every year if a moisture problem was going to adversely affect video discs anywhere it would be in Cornwall. If you think Scotland is wet try spending a couple of weeks in Cornwall at the height of Summer. There is nowhere else like it for wet weather. John.

The six discs I've cited all played fine the first time they were watched David so that's the conundrum that has baffled me for possibly two years. High humidity appears to be the cause of the disc rot if that's what it is. No longer a problem as we moved a couple of years ago. Trevor from Double Bill Movies came over with True Lies 4K yesterday. First impression was awful but we managed to make it look pretty darned good by the end of all our experimentation. Video coming soon but the main one will be on Trevor's channel as it's his disc. We both blather on about it for about 20 minutes so hopefully people will enjoy it. John.

Yea high humidity is a good shout. I'm looking forward to that video john.

That's all good information Nigel. High humidity has also been cited as a cause which rings true as we lived in Cornwall which is the wettest area on planet earth! John.

That does seem to be a memory issue with your player Daniel. I have a friend with a Sony player (I think) and he has the same issue quite regularly. John.

All of mine were first time around apart from that new purchase of PLANE which went back. John.

I've realized it's important to watch a 4K disc within a couple of weeks of purchase for this reason. PLANE is the only one I've had new that was faulty so that clearly wasn't laser rot but the other six do appear to be. John.

@@moviecollector5920 oh yeah, I definitely learned that lesson

2001 and TENET are now giving trouble in several places so that is further evidence for the laser/disc rot possibility. Another comment an hour or so ago listed about ten 4K discs in his collection with what I call 'the 4K fault'. We're not alone. John.

It's not much of a problem Gary and hopefully this video does clarify that. It appears to be manufacturing flaws in the silver layer and hence laser rot/disc rot. Only six discs out of about 250 and when you consider I have often used pause to write notes for a review video you can see why I'll uncover the issue more often than most ever would. In other words, this 4K fault is not as bad as I initially feared - nowhere near as bad. It exists on Blu-ray and DVD but probably not quite as common. John.

It's possible all six of these discs were manufactured in the same lab but it seems a little unlikely. Apparently they're all 100Gb triple layer discs so that probably tells us something. John.

All the evidence points to rot but it could be invisible scratching somehow caused occasionally by one of the players. That seems unlikely but I will investigate further when I stumble across another disc. High humidity has been confirmed as a likely cause and that resonates. We've moved but some of the discs spent up to four years on the shelves in the rain forest of Cornwall!!! John.

Maybe it’s just the UK because in America I watch a lot of RU-vidrs and no one’s come up with this problem as of yet sure you might come up with it’s a defective disc and take it back to the store and replace it. Or the actual 4K disc got loose in the mail and it scratched. But other than that, it sounds like a problem I would definitely look up the player that you have to see if that problem arises with other people. People buy 4K players thinking it’s the best. Maybe the best is the worst.

@@movieedge7370 A lot of other collectors have reported the same 4K fault so it is a definite problem. Fortunately, unless you live in a wet area it's not ever likely to be much of a problem. John.