The Bad and the Ugly of Weird Duty Roulette Behaviors! 

This is more noticeable on alliance raids, but I hate players that keep the rest hostage by not rolling on loot. Also people that can't wait for other players watching a cutscene

Can confirm: Talking like a human being resolves most problems most of the time. Had the nicest Mentor Roulette experience the other day where me and the DPS taught a baby tank to pull wall-to-wall. It was great. We got him to use his Mit skills and everything. And it all started with me just asking him to use 'Rampart.' Talk. Ask questions. This community is generally very supportive.

I wanna point out something that I’ve been noticing more frequently lately, and it actually scared me away from tanking back in 2013 until last year when I finally tried tanking again, getting an attitude with someone who is trying to learn a new role. My very first dungeon back in 2013 I was new to tanking and trying to learn. I wasn’t completely sure with what I was doing. The healer says, and I’ll never forget it as it stuck with me for YEARS and i refused to tank in any mmo, “why is our tank such trash?” And proceeded to say some other things. I finally broke past my fear and now my friends consider me one of the best tanks to bring along. I try my best to help new people, and will call out anyone bold enough to attempt what that healer did to me 10 years ago

Special shoutouts to ninja pullers on the Atomos fight in Labyrinth of Ancients. Having half the raid in the A lane while only one or two people can fight the boss in the B and C lanes because someone pulls early enough that a lot of people don't make it before the arena is sealed off (and the teleport only takes you to the A lane) and it taking forever as a result is not only one of the least fun experiences the game offers, it also is completely the opposite of the ninja puller's intention (unless they're trying to grief, I suppose).

As a tank main, I typically don't care if someone pulls the next group before me. But, for the love of Hydaelyn, at least pull them towards me so I can grab aggro. I'll only YPYT ninjapullers if I have to keep chasing them all over the map

I was healing as a SCH once in expert roulette and the DRK tank wasn't using TBN on a mob pull. It's the most conspicuous mit, since the shield actually shows up on their health bar. The pull was nearly a wipe and the tank did die during it. I asked them why they didn't use TBN. Their response? "It's a dps loss"..... For DRK who don't know, TBN is a short duration shield that, if popped, gives you a free mana ability. Meaning that as long as it breaks, it is mana neutral and you get a mit. I explained this to him and he still didn't use it in the second pull and died. I left because the dungeon was gonna be a chore. Unfortunately, you can't heal stupid.

Its such a strange coincidence that you posted this video today. Earlier i had a rare bad party experience in expert roulette where the tank had a massive ego. Him and the DPS summoner were bullying the scholar healer saying that he's not doing his job and that a healer is supposed to only heal and not attack - which is an outrageous take especially for a lvl 90 dungeon imo.... we wiped once at a boss fight and then they started grilling the healer. And instead of just being chill, the tank started purposefully standing in all the AOE's racking up vuln stacks. After the 2nd boss i confronted him about it and he decided to just completely stop, not pulling anything. He went on to say "go and show me to kill all them without a tank" and that "a healer must heal a tank, this is the point and i can not trust any healer.". Now it was at this point that i told him to stop being a little bitch in the chat and that we should go, bc this was literally just his huge ego and god complex as a tank talking. He was actively making it more difficult for the healer and then claiming that they weren't healing. At that point we ended up just voting to abandon the duty. I play healer as a main normally so i could see that the healer WAS doing their job perfectly fine. And i did defend them in the chat throughout the dungeon even when i had to use google translate sometimes bc the tank was talking in german sometimes. The bottom line is that it is never okay to behave that way as a tank. Belittling and bullying a healer because of 1 wipe or under any circumstance is not right. Its a rare occurrence but it is very jarring when it does happen.

When you started off talking about ninja pulling, I completely expected it to be the case of ninjas pulling enemies because their mudras about to run out. I am guilty of such behavior and I apologise.

A couple of extra notes for DPS, from someone who almost always plays DPS, since the video focuses a lot on tanks and healers (rightfully so): - If you do ACCIDENTALLY pull something, don't just stand there or run around like an idiot. Pull the extra mobs over to the tank. While the tank is there to tank, it's not their responsibility to chase your butt half way around the dungeon trying to peel mobs you aggro'd - Use your mitigation tools. Yes it's the healers job to heal/shield, but using your mits costs you nothing and helps them out. Plus, it might not seem like much if you're just running a casual dungeon but if you ever do any form of harder content you're going to NEED to be used to using your mit tools. Might as well get used to it now. - Don't just expect the healer and/or tank to do everything because "it's their job." Don't just stand in mechanics because "the healer will just top me up" or stand in bum F nowhere with your stack up marker expecting everyone else to run to you (and why were you standing in bum F nowhere to begin with? Just because your job might let you attack from anywhere in the arena doesn't mean you should). Part of playing a DPS is maintaining your DPS while doing mechanics. That's your responsibility.

One thing I see often that makes me pull my hair out is sprouts that don't look or touch the chatbox, ever. I get feeling nervous about talking, but man, all I wanted back when I started a year and a bit ago was for people to tell me what I was doing wrong. It's hard to relate that memory to the tanks that spend the entire Duty with their Stance off at lv 50 and above...

I remember the good old days of 4.0 and earlier where every dungeon I got into started with everyone saying hi and agreeing on the pace. I don't expect everyone to wanna talk the whole time but I do miss making friends with strangers every run.

My favorite are the people who don't follow the tank in a wall to wall pull if they accidentally get aggro on the move(like a mch/dnc critting with a big skill) and staying back in the last room, fighting the mob on their own while the tank is up against the wall in the next room. It rarely happens when I'm tanking, but I see it a large amount when I'm healing.

My biggest pet peeve is people who don't wait for first-timers to watch cutscenes. Had a Thaleia run recently (as in, one where you REALLY want to watch the pre-boss cutscene) where we got to the boss room, someone put up a ready check, and I told the group "we have someone in a cutscene in our party". Someone immediately jumped on me going "duh, that's what the ready check is for" and before I could finish typing out "well sometimes people pull even if everyone doesn't ready up" the person who started the ready check had already pulled. Another Thaleia run there were a bunch of people in cutscenes and someone literally said "screw your cutscenes I wanna get to bed" and pulled like two seconds after the cutscene started. Then spent the entire boss fight arguing with people about why they're allowed to do that and threatened to report anyone who yelled at them for it. Good ol' NA servers.

As a tank main, I don't mind other people pulling as long as they pull things in a predictable and controllable way. If they pull and stand on me or near enough that I can grab them with an AOE - great! If they pull them and then run around like a chicken with their head cut off, despite that not actually helping them dodge damage and making it harder to group the mobs, that's when it's bad. I've only seen it a few times, but there's also a DPS side to the coin my ex-WoW healer friend refers to as "Healers will adjust" mentality - where the DPS refuse to dodge any AOEs and instead greed their rotations for the sake of maximum parse, and end up putting the whole of their survival onto the healer. Sometimes we joke it's ley line /black mage syndrome. It definitely feels rarer than the ones you brought up though. It would be interesting if there were more DPS downs as the AOE affliction than everything stacking vulnerability. We so rarely see anything outside of poison as status afflictions either.

Thank you for teaching me what YPYT means - something that had gotten thrown my way a few months ago and im only just now learning what the acronym means. Context: i was leveling my first tank job ever, PLD, and was in Qarn (Normal) with the usual mismatched gear you’d find on a new person, and i had only tanked once before (all my other XP was side quests, hunting logs, etc). All three other party members were level 90 (i could tell because i inspected their characters and they had max level gear, and two had mentor crowns). I began typing into chat “hey im new to tanking, im gonna do small pulls so i can get used to my rotation and using my mitigations at the right time” - and i didn’t even have time to press enter before the other three sprinted ahead without a word. By the time i did send the message, their names in the party list were greyed out from the distance, and no amount of me sprinting could catch up until the first boss room … where the moment I arrived, the healer immediately pulled with one of their DoTs. I had to fight all the trash mobs *and* the boss at the same time. During the run to the second miniboss, i asked them twice to slow down. No answer. I couldn’t catch up with them (it was a bard using peloton and sprint, and using repelling shot at the right angle to “jump” ahead further whenever they gained enmity, and the healer and other DPS would ride that peloton as long as possible). And i was admittedly wasting my sprint because i would *try* to grab aggro with shield lob and then sprint up, but that would halve my sprint time. The other three wiped twice trying to do this, and then when all the enmity flipped to me, I’d get destroyed in seconds. Then, in chat: “keep aggro better please” I tried again to explain that they needed to slow down and let me take the lead, no reply. By the time i respawned, they were already sprinting ahead again. I then just … turned off my tank stance. I figured “fine, if they want to rush ahead, why should i even bother?” SECONDS after turning off my tank stance, the chat lit up with “turn on stance” “shitty tank, turn on stance” and so on. I snapped back with “what’s the point if you won’t let me get aggro on more than one or two enemies at once? Slow down, or tank it yourself.” The healer (a mentor, i might add!) said “ugh another YPYT sprout, this is why the game is going to shit”. They then proceeded to votekick me. Ten minutes later, i got pulled aside by a GM because they got a report that i had been griefing. Thankfully once I explained what happened and they said “they’d review the logs” they let me go, and a day later I got a follow-up message from the GM team saying the issue was dropped and apologizing for me having such a bad experience. I never bothered looking up what YPYT means and I didn’t try tanking in solo duty queues for another month, only with friends. I guess I know now, and I also know that they were Ninjapullers!

This isn't regarding any sort of toxic player behavior, but rather two things that I've found helpful when trying to communicate. I dunno how many other people have this problem, but it's a little hard for me to keep up with chat because I have limited brain RAM-I'm already focused on playing the game so I might miss something in the chat. If that's you, I have two bits of advice: 1. Make a separate party chat (I usually have it be party chat messages and loot) 2. Arguably more important, give party chat a notification sound! At this point my brain has kinda been trained to hear the sound and make my eyes flick down to see what's up. Extremely helpful. Actually helped me not get a little salty at an instinctive accidental ninjapull, lol.

I hit sprint when the tank hits sprint. They stop, I stop; they go, I go. Cuz manners 😌

When I just started learning DKR, I had my first run in Sastasha, and the SGE constantly kept running ahead and pulling mobs, and then wrote in chat that I should pull more, they can handle it - despite me constantly dropping very low on health in the mobs. I didn't die, and I didn't state upfront that I was gonna pull small packs. But I was a Sprout Tank in literally the first dungeon cause I wanted to learn, and constantly dropping to low health and running after the Healer was making me extremely nervous, and I wasn't fast enough to type a response in chat. Luckily, one of the DPS immediately responded in chat that they should "let the Sprout Tank go at their pace". After that, the SGE stopped running ahead and all went well.

I feel the notion that the group gets to dictate how each member plays their role based off of their understanding of optimal play is a bit of a slippery slope..

Always good to communicate whenever something goes wrong. Best way to make the run go by so much better. But remember Tanks, the best way to be petty against a Ninja is to move the mobs out of their Doton~

I rate your "using human words an 8/10 on the sarcastic scale. Coulda been more drippy, but solid mocking of people allergic to words. Another part of Ninja Pulling: Some jobs may be trying to rush for maintaining a combo or some such. Farming 43 runs of Lunar Subterra (chest pieces, BiS), I'd Jump at the end of a pull thinking the enemy had enough HP but then it suddenly goes from 25% to 0. I need to rush immediately to the next pack, or lose out on a Mirage Dive - a key DRG resource. Not all Ninja-puling when done intentionally is even malicious. Sometimes we just trying to maintain rotation. Long as we don't run off with the mobs, should be easy to take em back.

I've had a whole mixed bag of experiences but I would just say this: It might help everyone if we don't automatically assume bad intentions off the bat. What can be attributed to malice is more often ignorance or inattention. Using your words can be helpful instead of making assumptions in the heat of the moment!

As someone who started using WAR as my main in Endwalker, part of the problem I run into is I barely have time to use my human words in dungeons. I'm comfortable pulling wall to wall, but if something goes wrong mid-pull, i don't have time to type in chat box trying to make a suggestion or ask for something lol.

So here is the logic of it all. You said in the video that it’s not the tanks choice always how much to pull. The faulty logic there is a tank is one who has to take all the damage and who can see their current cooldown layout. If they misclicked a cooldown and don’t have anything and dps force the pull and the tank get nervous and uncomfortable and so you ruin that experience for them. Communicate with words not actions. Ask them to pull bigger and accept if they aren’t comfortable

Was taking a friend of mine through AV a few weeks back. The tank was new, my friend was barely getting used to healer, I was on summoner for emergencies and we had a max ilvl ninja. Right at the start the tank asks if we can go slow which both myself and the healer agree to. The ninja says nothing and as we are taking mobs slow as my friend was nervous as well, the ninja pulls half the room and rushes back to us. The first room took 20 min cause of the ninja. They even blamed the healer and myself for not battle rez'ing them while we tried keeping each other alive. Insulted the tank and healer the whole time, but we eventually got through it and all 3 of us reported him. No idea why players are like this.

Healer Main (AST): I dont ninja-pull, but i often run ahead, to hint to the tank that i can handle more dmg. Some bite some don't... ( i dont force it, as i dont aggro mobs ahead)

In my defense as a SGE main, pulling mobs for extra toxicons feels super rewarding. My shields break faster than a tank's since I take more damage, and they're quick to cast, so I can easily keep myself alive for 5 seconds once we're done pulling while the tank gets aggro (assuming they didn't already while pulling).

I occasionally get tanks in expert roulettes that refuse to use any mitigations - "it's the healers job to keep me alive" - , but still pull wall-to-wall. Since they also tend to have worse gear, of course they end up dying before the healer even has the chance to react (seen them drop from 100-0 in less than 2 seconds). So yeah, friendly reminder to use mits, or if you can't be bothered or don't know about it, ask or only pull as much as you can manage.

The amount of times I have stated 'Hey, I'm getting used to my key binds, I might be slow, sorry' at the start of a dungeon/raid/duty, and everyone went 'dw its cool' is so nice. I even had the tank go 'I'll pull smaller' and he did, which I appreciate. One time we had a newbie DPS, a newbie tank, and myself as a healer learning the new key binds, we took it slow. Who'd have think that communicating before hand helps?

This is a very nuanced topic. In my book, the only irredeemable bad actors are YPYT tanks and god complex healers, since they invariably make the experience worse for everyone in the party. Bonus points if it's a premade party doing both of those things to assert their dominance over puny DPS players. On the topic of ninja pulling, it heavily depends on how it's done. If it's less "ninja" and more just "puller" (as in, they're not trying to hide the fact they want to go fast and they're just making the run more efficient), then I'm fine with it. If it's a melee or ranged physical pulling with Arm's Length, that's free mitigation and I'll comm them after the run. If it's a Sage, that's also good for the group, since they pull with shields on themselves to gain another charge of Toxikon, which is a big DPS gain in trash pulls (and they're the healer, so they can take care of themselves if necessary). As long as they bring it to the tank, it's all good! If I'm the tank, I'll typically throw Nascent Flash or Heart of Corundum their way and they'll be fine while I grab aggro on everything. Teamwork makes the dream work! I only get mad at ninja pullers if they pull and then run away with the mob to try and solo it or god forbid actually keep running away with the mob until they die. Don't be shy, bring it to the blender!

As a scholar with a lot of time on my hands both to figure out funky game mechanics and also humour strange behaviours, whenever I get the tanks that only pull one mob, I try to make them take 0 damage for the entire dungeon run, to see if they might feel comfortable pulling more knowing that they're taking... literally 0 damage otherwise.

My worst queue was as a WHM healing a DK a few years ago when they were lacking in their low level kit...the DK kept overpulling and I was only able to heal and I was running out of mana. When I ran out of mana from the excessive healing and cleansing, we wiped. I asked to pull less, tank refused and said I should just heal better...then that it was not my place to say anything about his pulls because he was tank. I did snap back that I was more important because I was healing and couldn't keep up which imo is valid in that moment, it's not like I demanded something, I asked and explained I was not able to keep up. The run ended about 8-9 wipes in with me healing no one, leaving them dead, and taking the packs on myself one by one. Imo I was forced to behave that way and did the right thing and I am thankful every day I've never been pushed to that point again because of an unreasonable tank.

Just a few days ago It was my first time tanking in low level dungeon and our healer inmediatly went all like "I WANT YOU TO PULL ALL OF THEM, PULL LIKE A BITCH, KEEP PULLING, YOU ATACK AND KEEP GOING" and honestly I don't know if it was half joke or not but It felt terrible and I had a lot of pressure, they just stopped when a friend told them I was a beginner, but then they started pushing again and repeating "I'll keep you alive" but end up picking all the mobs for me pushing a lot and getting ahead. Clearly our commendation was not for them, tank anxiety is a thing and that didn't helped much hahah.

Worst case of ninjapulling I've ever seen was when I was leveling my first healer job, I loaded into Bardam's and immediately crashed (happened a lot back then, turns out my harddrive was dying). Apparently while I was gone, one of the DPS ran off and tried to start pulling. Tank and other DPS stayed at the start to wait for me. When I got back in the ninjapuller and the tank were arguing because _the healer was literally not there, no we're not pulling yet_ and eventually the puller got kicked. We waited a bit for a replacement and when we finally got one, it turned out it was someone who was watching the original ninjapuller streaming and immediately tried to kick the tank! Which obviously did not go through. He started throwing a fit and we were all like "Really dude". Eventually he calmed down and we actually got through the dungeon together just fine lmao.

There is a lot of things to take into consideration too, sometimes with the following I have met DPS that do the ninjapulling but they do in a smart way, if is a RPR with their shield + arms lenght and Bloodbath they can perfectly take away a couple of hits plus put slow over the pull before you (As tank) use 1 AoE to take the pull back, as tank it only takes 1 ability to have all the pull back to you (Which nobody knows) Me as DPS usually do that trick to encourage tanks and/or help with mitigation as well As Tank I have mentallity of pulling wall to wall doesnt matter what dungeon is, Unless the healer is new/sprout I will do a slow pacing, otherwise in any Expert I will just vroom And as for healer, you can perfectly push the tank pulling the rest of the room, if the tank gets a tantrum is their problem, you as a healer can even determine if you are capable or not to manage a pull I always say to tanks "Pull everything I can handle it" In the end is a matter of Communication, but you can and people do choose how to not waste time in a dungeon, I have had Tanks leaving because I push them to pull more as healer, or healers leaving because they refuse to heal, so is a total /huh

in my second dungeon run as a dark knight (and my second run as a tank ever), i went into haukke manor and was typing out a message in chat to say like "hey am new here will do my best" or what have you, and before i could even finish typing, one of the dps in my party ran right ahead and started pulling mobs. and then continued to pull a lot of mobs to me for the rest of the dungeon. it was.... certainly a run? i felt really overwhelmed and kept getting really low on hp - not being able to tell if that was bc we were pulling too much, i wasnt using mits correctly, or if our healer just liked the thrill of letting the tank drop really low lmao. one specific thing that i remember completely aggravating me is that theres a pack of mobs near either the first or second boss that you DON'T need to pull. you can just leave em alone and walk into the boss room. and i intentionally only pulled the mobs that u need to - only for the dps to stop fighting, run to the side, and pull the unnecessary ones. i was too busy making sure i didnt die to ever actually type in chat. at no point did we wipe, but i remember just being really annoyed about the whole thing and ranting to my girlfriend about it later. but ive thought about it a bit more lately and well - the dps was definitely just trying to help. they even wished me good luck on my tanking journey at the end! they absolutely had 0 bad intentions in pulling things for me. at the same time, i sorta wish they had just... waited a few moments at the start to see how much i was gonna pull in the first place? or asked me if i wanted to try doing big pulls. as you said, communication is key! (to be fair, i didnt exactly communicate either for them to stop lmao. ig in my defense i was very overwhelmed)

If I'm playing tank and I see others pulling ahead of me I am thankful. Your health bars are free mitigation, you also get extra love from me plus a free dinner at a class restaurant if you are a melee/ranged DPS and you pop Arms Length and bring back the mobs pre-slowed. (Of course I only advocate for non-tank pulling if it is already established we are going wall to wall - in that case if you do pull in front of the tank they were going to grab those mobs in a second anyway). But please make sure you run back to the tank... I ain't chasing you all over the dungeon to save your rear (I mean, I will... I just won't like it :P)

i’ve gotten complements for using mitigation on pulls i think need it and that just shows how bad a position tanking is in where multiple healers expect tanks to not mitigate

With a couple of my other friends we had the worst possible luck with Healers and Tanks in some instances, it can be iffy but when you get a combo of them in a duty it can be painful. I had the chrysalis in trials roulette where one of the tanks announced "I'm a bad Tank XD" who then proceeded to not cooperate with my Tank friend the entire instance using no cooldowns with his stance constantly on. It felt like he was doing it intentionally because he turned it off after my friend did a couple times. Fortunately both Healers dealt with this by only healing him, not walking into any of the orbs & not doing any DPS to then blame the DPS for killing themselves to the mechanics

It's more of a problem in the first few alliance raids due to encounter design, but tanks who decide that *they* have to be the main tank for the alliance and provoke on cooldown cause a lot of problems if there's more than one of them. Bosses spinning to face a new person or worse, running across the room, makes the experience not fun for basically anyone else

When I tank a dungeon I usually try to be forgiving of ninja pullers, and keep ahead of the DPS so that I can get aggro before they get there. BUT, if we're waiting on someone to finish their cutscene and you pull the boss, I'm gonna keep my butt planted on the ground and let you 1v1 the boss

This might be bad but the only times I don't heal or revive someone is when they die so much they aren't even worth spending swiftcast on. However if it is a sprout I will do everything in my power to keep them alive and revive them no matter how many times it takes.

I just returned to the game earlier this month and decided to try tanking while running through NG+ and omg the ninjapulling can be terrible sometimes. Even when telling the party that I am new to tanking I would get some DPS running ahead and grabbing more enemies without saying anything. You'd think the first step would be a simple couple of words asking to pull more but nope. I've only had a single person ask me to pull more instead of just taking it upon themselves to pull everything. Despite that I still try to do my best and not let them die.

I want to bring up that people should also be aware of themselves, asthey might become more of a problem in certain circumstances I know for me, I tend to be more reckless and wanting to get through things faster when I'm exhausted. There was a point where, during Satasha in the process of leveling DRG, I just started pulling things and bringing them to the tank. We did wipe, and I was (justly) called out for it, but I didn’t really take it to heart until several days later, when I realized that I was lacking sleep and have been leveling LNC/DRG for several hours by that point, and was just so dang tired of the queue times. Ever since, I've been more mindful of my wakefulness and how I'm acting as a DPS.

The issue I have with this is the "ninja pullers" vs "YPYT". Yes, communication is fundamental in dungeons when you have a bad actor in play. But continuous ninja pulling should not be sat upon and waited for after the instance, report during the instance. A multitude of new tanks deal with added stress of tanxiety, because if they lose agro, they are doing their job wrong (what is in their heads) this coupled by the real life anxieties just compound it. You are ACTIVELY making someone's life worst by forcing someone out of their comfort zone and putting warranted stress on someone, decreasing their enjoyment just so you can save a few extra minutes on the final count down. While reporting the person, let them pull to their hearts content if they don't want to listen to reason. There is never a time where it is okay to pull faster than the slowest player's comfort level. mistakes happen, but the intent should be the fun of the players, not forcing them to "overcome" for your need for speed.

Most dungeons are around 15 Minutes, so I never understood why people create so much drama in those short timespans. I'll always adjust to every weird thing happening during dungeons/trials and usually don't care about it and simply focus on completing the duty - no need for Drama and the dury will be over more quickly. Well i'm in a kind of priviliged situation since I'm also a tank main, but for example, if someone pulls ahead of me, I simply stick as close as possible to that person for the rest of the dungeon or move ahead just seconds before the last enemy dies, so I'll be in front of that person. I would never imagine letting someone die or "teach them a lesson" because of things like that but I do know a lot of people with such a mindset and it always baffles me. Other example: If a healer is struggling with healing during my big pulls, I just start using Clemency or something similar, doesn't matter to me if it's a dps loss in that situation, I want to help out my healer while also being able to continue with the big pulls, since they're so common anyways it's better imo to simply help out the healer instead of pulling less so they can get comfortable with the situation. But in case something like clemency isn't available and most mitigation is on cooldown, then of course I will only pull as much as the group can handle, so I won't force big pulls and potential deaths just out of stubborness or again "teaching the healer a lesson" if I know there is a possibility to wipe, it's just bad behaviour. For me it's all about adjusting instead of following a strict formular in this kind of content. Sometimes you just get really weird people but know what? Try out to simply roll with it and adjust instead of argueing about their behaviour, usually those runs turn out to be a lot of fun and can be weirdly satisfying at least that's my experience and that's also the advice I can give for those situations :D

"running around and dancing isn't in the healer role" We all know heals are stronger when jumping around between cast times... and snacking to refill aether... healing takes a lot of energy!

I once had a run of lapis Manalis where I sprinted and the tank didn't so I dotted up enemies first, it's not an issue because I know how to tank so I just stack with the tank and he gets aggro no issue. Then he proceeds to not proceed to the next packs. Instead crying in chat. Me and my friend ended up duo-ing from 2nd to 3rd boss on reaper and scholar still wall to wall pulling without a tank. Then we duod the boss. Obviously we couldn't kick cus they were intentionally not rolling on loot, such a terrible stante

You know gets me, people that stop fighting mobs/boss to stand at the exit of the room until they're able to move to the next spot. It's annoying in dungeons and especially alliance raids where you see a group of people standing there and doing nothing while there is still fighting going on because of the "Me first" mentality.

I am growing tanks and recently I had a party where the healer and one of the DPS were behaving weirdly. The healer would just heal but incompletely and would rescue me randomly with no reason or explanation, despite me asking every time why they did that. I pulled less, naturally, because I didn't trust the healer and their bizarre behavior, but the DPS would go ahead and pull more. I did get the mobs off of them and as I reached the stopping point the healer stopped healing completely and let me die. Now, I absolutely agree that communication is very important. But what can you do when people straight up ignore you when you're trying to communicate?

Loops back on game theory. When you shirk you incentivize everyone else to shirk as well because if they don't they're just being a sucker. Still, within a roulette scenario tanks have the most responsibility in the group. Pulling and pacing are a part of the tank's job, while being considerate of healer resources, are their job because both are components of protecting the party. Since it's their responsibility it is their choice, everyone else's choice is whether the terms work for the run they want, or to leave the dungeon and wait for a different tank. Raids, trials and prog content is different.

I've been playing as a tank recently with PLD and I'm loving it. My experiences are people being more than nice, specially when I tell them it's my first time tanking in the dungeon. Particularly, with Brayflox's Longstop I had a ninja (fittingly enough) ninja pulling to show me the way when they realized I did not know the way. He'd type in the chat "Over here boss". Can't get angry at that 😄

The tanks job is to manage and maintain aggro, not to pull especially in dungeons. Ninjapulling is only ever an issue when they are obviously overpulling in rare instances like Mt. Gulg where you can really pull a lot more than usual (though even that can be w2w easily if you know what you are doing). I say this as someone who mainly plays tank in duty roulette, ninjapulling is not problem behavior at all. It is also usually easier instead of harder for the tank to grab all the aggro back because they get piled up, again it being much rarer that they pile up awkwardly.

I have also seen a healer using rescue to drag a tank along faster and then complaining when we wiped, until the tank got fed up and left. Please, just be nice to each other and don't force someone to play your way if they don't feel like they can keep up. It was a level 50 dungeon and tank was a sprout iirc.

I had so much anxiety about being a tank at first because of people who would constantly pull for me, even after I stated I would like to go slow since I was learning. I still don't care to tank as much, but i've gotten a little more comfortable doing it.

I remember once getting in cutter's cry as a healer and found out part way through the lancer had level 1 glamor pieces on their chest and legs.... There wasn't any saving them by the end, they were dying to unavoidable damage.

As a healer main who dabbles in tank from time to time, the thing that irks me the most is people don't take the time to learn what their actions actually do and then refuse to take any sort of advice. This is specifically in regards to tanks not knowing what how their different mitigations and invulns work and healers who for whatever reason refuse to use oGCDs. If I had a nickle for every DRK who used Living Dead at 95% hp, I'd probably be the richest man in the world.

Maybe it's just me but as a healer I don't enjoy wall to walls for every dungeon. It's mostly fine but other times it can be quite stressful ^^ like there's some dungeons where half a wall pull does a hefty amount of damage and a full pull means I'm basically a heal bot unable to dps because the mobs are bringing the tank below half each time they hit. (I think that's slower) At least when I'm tank I remember those dungeons with tricky pulls and will ease into it first before picking up the pace. I don't mind going faster if people can handle it though.

The closing words; "Try and challenge yourself" have been my mantra for a long time on "those" runs. It's wise advice.

A DPS pulling slightly ahead is mostly fine to me. Certain fights I don't like to W2W because it's faster to not do that in certain dungeons. Otherwise? If you pull it, just bring it to me, your health bar is just more mitigation for me.

I hard disagree on it being a group choice of being a group choice on the pace. To put it simply, if the tank dies then its most likely the healer dies, when the healer dies the DPS die. If the tank is new and is unsure of themselves I much rather have them pull light then to put them through extra stress. It is not my place as a DPS to force them out of their comfort zone. If they want to pull w2w and the healer can support them, good! The next person who gets a choice is the healer, once again if the healer is unsure then as a tank you should pull less. If they are wanting to pull w2w and the tank can do it, awesome. The healer should NOT rescue a tank into the next group if said tank is uncertain (See pervious point.) (5:13) Yes it is a problem, because again the tank dies, the rest of the party dies. It does not matter if the DPS and the Healer think they can compensate, if the tank dies they will get blamed.

As a WHM main the idea of a healer not healing (the thing in their role description) because they don't want to in any instance is wild to me lol

I mostly agree, but when a ninja puller refuses to stop despite being asked to and told that the tank or healer is new, I think it is entirely justified to refuse to tank or heal for them and let them die repeatedly until they cut it out.

As a tank main, sometimes I accidentally pull packs when I'm in anything *not* tank... 😅 Muscle memory goes brrr

My opinion about dungeon pace is that the group moves as fast as the tank or healer is comfortable pulling, whichever is slower. Wall-to-walls can be stressful for new or returning tanks/healers, so taking it slower until they build up their confidence is beneficial for everyone.

My worst dungeon experience to date almost made me fall into the YPYT mindset for a while. (I did always provoke after letting the puller take a few hits lol.) Happened when I was still pretty new to tanking. The party had a BRD that immediately ran ahead and pulled the first mob. I took the aggro from them. Wasn't a big deal over all... until the healer decided to only heal the BRD, and not me. So I died to the first mob, and while I respawned the BRD and healer ran ahead to the next mob and pulled that as well. (Other DPS was my friend, who waited for me.) Tried talking to those two, but the BRD just told me I don't pay their sub and the healer, iirc, did not say anything at all. So me and my friend just left after a couple minutes of that mess. Didn't want to deal with it. So anyway, I stopped tanking for a little bit after that, but got back into it and (fortunately) never encountered players like that again. Started to trust healers again and don't get anxious about Ninjapulls anymore (annoying as they can be sometimes) lol. All's well that ends well, but thinking about that time still makes me mad.

I think the most annoying thing to me is DPS that appears to be *trying* to mess up every pull by hitting whichever enemy the tank did not hit with their preferred pull method. It's just...exhausting to deal with as a tank, and irritating to witness as a healer. (I don't notice when I play dps cause I'm focused on making sure I'm punching whichever thing the tank has already hit). These are thankfully extremely rare, they just stick in my head really well because the kind chaos and exhaustion it causes isn't even fun to work around/through, like certain other kinds of challenges. One thing I love to see in tanks at low level is the ones that try to play at the level of their party. Like if they can see that half the party are the greenest a sprout can possibly be, they play a little bit chiller, but still keep up a good speed. Gently teaching the sprouts about dungeon pacing without singing "Welcome to the Jungle" while throwing them off a cliffside.

On ninjapulling i’m only a sprout but i had an early on issue where our puligist just decided to pull all enemies in the first dungeons last room. I stood there as we were fighting a smaller group and bro just ran back with a bucketload of enemies. That was a moment where i literally was like oh no why why why. I only remember one time i acidentally ninja pulled. I was playing healer and the next monster group was closer thsn i expected so i was slightly further behind the tank and ended up pulling the next group by accident.

Something else that comes to mind is when the tank died, I got aggro, died, and the healer saw fit to not rez me even after getting the situation under control. That was annoying. I fought as much as the tank pulled and did my rotation, ended up as second target and died for that. All I can say is that it took me a while to find my sprint button to return to the group. Something else that's really just bad behavior is not using your mitigations or self healing as a tank and forcing it all onto the healer, then complaining that the healer is trash when they struggle keeping the group alive or at least need to heal way more and the dungeon takes much longer. Another potential problem of YPYT is that the new tank might run to Narnia if the DPS doesn't trust the healer or the healer doesn't trust the rest of the group, possibly making everyone wipe in the process or delaying the dungeon a lot. Couldn't blame them.

I will admit to some level of "You pull it, You tank it" when I play as tank, but this is only for people who continue to run ahead of me and pull the mobs *after I have explicitely asked them to stop*. I will do my best to wall to wall, but if you keep going out of your way to pull before me, be the tank you want to see next time. I know that may be wrong but I will at least check, I know it only punishes the healer, but after asking that they let me lead the pull as the tank (because I have damage reduction and mitigation abilities suited for getting hit). Worst I've done is tankbust a healer who practically refused to heal me though and that got me a warning. I will say that as a tank main who's currently a DPS because my favourite tank is in a bad spot imo, the most annoying thing is a dps or healer that will intentionally pull for the tank. Pulling by accident? That's ok, bring it to the tank and it'll be fine. Pulling for the tank intentionally? I know some tanks don't have a problem with this. Pulling for the tank after being asked to stop? Now you've kinda crossed the line...

I like this balanced perspective that pulling is a team decision and both ninja pullers and ypyt tanks are in the wrong. I’ve had a couple of extreme ninja pullers who pop up sprint at the start of the dungeon and immediately start pulling everything and don’t stop doing it even if they do end up dying. If I’m the tank, I usually give it a few pulls, say something, then leave if it continues. It’s a team effort, we can talk about pull pace rather than me or you being a dictator about it.

Was tanking a dungeon- the healer decided I wasn’t pulling fast enough and would USE RESCUE TO DRAG ME AROUND. Then the bard would run ahead and bring me things like a cat bringing dead mice. They didn’t use the chat. I died so many times because there were just TO MANY and the healer WAS TOO FOCUSED ON DRAGGING ME AROUND Just use the chat and I usually will pull more- I often pull half the floor because I play healer a lot and know a lot off different healers who don’t like a floor pull. The only time I’ll say no is if we were already having problems. Weirdest experience ever. Never had before nor since a healer using Rescue to manipulate me around the field like that. Only had them ever use it to pull me out of an AOE or drag my body along.

Legendary parties are those who remember that dps also have mitigating tools. The shock when I saw a ypyt tank watch a monk solo a pack using his tool kit and then kick the tank from party was chefs kiss lol.

The only bad experience I’ve had with the game so far was getting yelled at in Shisui of the Violet Tides, I didn’t watch a guide cause I thought it would just be a steamroll (and it was) but I still messed up two mechanics and all the healer said was “the water” then proceeded to rail off on me. How was I supposed to tell what “the water” meant, the whole damn dungeon is underwater. It’s simply unavoidable with all the WoW and Moba players.

As a still new (end of ARR) player and currently hard Healer main, I've had enough situations where I either barely managed to keep the Tank alive through a W2W, or (on blessedly rare occasions, mostly first times) *didn't* manage to keep them alive and we wiped, that on the occasions I try to tank I tend to wind up too nervous to do more than 1-3 pack pulls ^.^; Haven't had anyone get angry about it yet, fortunately, but seeing other tanks in action it also makes me nervous that someone will.

I do YPYT if im playing as tank, and am watching a cutscene. you ignore my cutscene you die. as usually i take a drink or eat a snack during cutscenes. i also use the arena border as a small ready sign, if ur in the walls of the arena withotu watching a cutscene ur ready to fight.

The whole video can be summed up by "Just pull"

As someone with a 90 on each class my thoughts: When I'm the tank: Lucy Pyre's guide to tanking might be a shitpost, but also contains literally 90% what you need to know. Be faster. Get that sweet 20 second sprint buff and leave dps in the dust, rotate your defensive cooldowns and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE YOUR AOE ROTATION. And don't forget arm's length. Be the ultimate ungabunga and solo the dungeon if you have to. As a warrior, I know I can (if I'm level 56 or higher). As a war main, I'm the healer now. I guess have both the healer and tank god complex at the same time so boo me >.>. The only acceptable pace is full frickin throttle. As a healer: If the tank ain't pulling, I am I guess but I'm also dying inside as end up queued with the dark knights who refuse to use shadow wall the entire run and only use rampart on boss fights. And not for tankbusters. I feel at times I can genuinely heal myself or a melee dps using bloodbath better if the tank can't perform. With sage as my favorite healer I can even eat tankbusters if I have to. I might also decide you're cheaper to rez at 3 vuln stacks than babyshit you as you try to collect 5-6. >.> As DPS: This is a vacation, spam aoe go brrr don't stand in the orange collect free loot.

i do have to ask is it counted as ninja pulling if im say the healer and im running WITH tthe tank but as we aproch the next mobs still running with the tank i start casting my dots (the hope being yeas they may all run at me but im literaly running/standing with the tank so all mobs should go into their aoes befor i start my holy spam

I have an unrelated question: how are positional for melee calculated on bosses like Ozma or Zeromus etc. where there is no flank or rear? Does true north still help? On the topic of the video, I have been leveling both tanks and healers lately and I have been on all sides. When I’m a tank and others pull, I simply pull aggro back and call it free mit. I had a 90 dungeon recently where the tank kept stopping and going in the weirdest spots, almost like they were purposefully messing with us. The healer and other DPS rage quit and so I pulled a group myself and just used bloodbath until the tank decided to join and use their aoe. Sometimes pulling for a tank is necessary to show them they have enough defense if they are being unreasonably slow. At least two groups for the most part. When I have a good healer and I use my mits correctly as WAR or PLD I can always pull wall to wall and having the DPS pull a little for me might actually help mitigate some damage. Of course, everyone has to be running at the same speed.

DPSing as a healer is such a goddamn chore, though. I am a new player, and just recently leveled my first healer to 50. It didn't even really occur to me that I shouldn't keep everyone topped off at all times, and when it did I got to DPSing. It is then that I realised how mind-numbingly boring it is to do damage as a healer in this game - I'd rather play a curebot and watch healthbars go green.

Had a tank try to kill me in smileton the other day cause I was pulling whatever enters my range as MCH........ despite me literally being on top of them and having all the mobs come to us 😅 Unfortunately for them I main tank and actually know how to use Arms Length and mitigation to survive 🤣 They also did not say a word before straight trying to kill me 😛

I've definitely been guilty of attacking too much as healer. I greed and see how much damage I can do, then panic cause I forgot the tank can die. Usually I can risk letting the tank get low but there have been times I underestimate the pack's damage and they almost or do die.

I'm new to tanking, and have only just made it to 90 on SMN while working my way through the story. When I started DRK, I had a PLD main friend on DPS guiding me through and making sure I knew tank etiquette. I was actually pretty discouraged by the number of people who expect you to know exactly what you're doing right from the start, even in regular dungeons. I think it's important to keep in mind that just because someone no longer has a sprout, doesn't mean they've been playing the game for 10 years. Have a little patience.

I had a Stone Vigil run where it was first time really tanking with DRK. I wasn't used to the rotation, DRK has limited tools, and my Healer was rusty, so I didn't w2w. Well the BLM didn't like that, and said "You know you can pull more than 3 packs at once". -Very passive aggressive phrasing, instead you should ask why the tank isn't doing W2W. So my friend(the healer) kindly explained that I wasn't very familiar with DRK and wasn't comfortable doing the pretty rough W2W in Stone Vigil. Well the BLM didn't like that, and said something to the effect of "I don't want to be in here for an hour, pull more." -You want more pulls, queue as Tank. Don't be passive aggressive because the run isn't going fast enough, then rude when it's explained to you why. So I said "No, I will die and then it will take even longer." Well the BLM didn't like that, so after the first boss when I stopped at about 50% pulls, he ran ahead and pulled more and brought them back. -Predictably, I died near the end of the pull, and the Healer clutched. BLM didn't say anything. So after the second boss, he did it again. -This time, I purposely aggroed everything except the Ice Sprites that were on him and let him die. My friend thanked him for taking a bit of the aggro off of me. We then completed the dungeon and I got the comm from the other DPS, who was very nice and understanding when it was explained why I wasn't doing W2W. My whole point with telling this story is that dungeons are casual content, and there could be a dozen different reasons for someone to want to take it a bit slower. If you take casual group content so seriously, you're only going to upset yourself.

The amount of people (tank players especially) outing themselves in this comment section as the exact thing you're describing (and still thinking they're in the right???) is crazy. Tanks shirking healers who "aren't healing enough" and DPS who pull ahead and even bring the mobs to you?? YPYT is always unacceptable, end of discussion. Just hit the bad guys and use your mitigation, it isn't that hard or that serious, people. Some serious "I'm the main character and you all have to cater to how i want to play" energy going on. Re-evaluate how you play a multiplayer game please. Sometimes you'll have to go a little out of your comfort zone and that is okay! It is how you learn and get better at the game. Be better players and better people.

Ive only recently started my FF14 Journey and am going it as a Marauder. Watching these videos of yours is helping me avoid bad behavior while also letting me know what to expect when i encounter different jobs/roles in my journey.

If I tank, I don't have an attitude. I just want the dungeon done. Sometimes I need to hold in my frustration in some runs that said.

For me, it's the sprout tank that has no levels on healers pulling wall to wall and are very stingy with their mitigation... I have my eyes on you TBN only DRKs. I have once burned all 3 aetherflow stacks, all pet abilities and spamming PHYSICK just to keep him alive.

The tragedy of both the god complex healer and ypyt is that if you pull that move in a level 90 dungeon you are liable to have the rest of the group call your bluff and do the dungeon without you Yes, at level 90 an attentive party with a warrior (potentially other tanks too) can clear dungeons without a healer Scholar (and again, likely other healers) can SOLO specific dungeons, though it is excruciatingly slow Please be especially careful when ascribing blame in dungeons. If you die in a dungeon as a warrior at level 90 it is your fault, 100%, every time. The same is almost universally true for healers. If you die of boredom however then it might be time to point fingers at the tank not w2w'ing or the white mage spamming cure 1 (or the red mage not using melee abilities, etc)

While w2w pulls are generally expected they shouldn't be required...especially if the Tank or Healer is just not ready for big pulls...especially the extreme megapulls. Mt.Gulg, Ala Migo, and Doma Castle come to mind..... I still remember my third run through Mt. Gulg and at the start, I wasn't doing the big pulls. I pulled the first two groups and begun rolling Cooldowns.....and the mentor Sage healer just went forward without my knowing, pulling the next group. He runs past me with all of these extra enemies, and even though I was spamming AoE, I didn't pick up the aggro in time, and that healer died to Autos. He then went off on me, calling me a YPYT and abandoned the dungeon soon after....

I've learned that if I accidently pull something before the tank, the best thing you can do is run back to them with it. That way it is not only clustered up, but easy for them to pick up. If you get a mob on you, don't run away, always take it to the tank. If they are struggling to pick it up right away, or don't notice right away, you can run a circle around the pack the tank already has to stay out of enemy melee range, but stay near tank aoe range. Much as a healer can withhold heals from a tank who is being a butt, a tank can likewise shirk on a healer who is being a butt. Really though just makes headaches for all involved.

"You pull you tank" is soooo cringe

You know, I don't even play a tank, I'm a DPS main and heal secondary, and it's always been that way for me, but I still think YPYT is kind of right, sorry. At the end of the day, I get it's all about mutual respect, and no one is God of the Dungeon over anyone else, but in my mind, the tank is the boss and that's okay with me. I want them to be comfortable. They're the ones who have to hold the enemies and try not to die. It makes sense that they should lead the charge and set the pace. If anything, I'd like the healer and tank to talk it out, but as someone who is almost always dps, I'm just there to be the muscle and follow their lead. If I wanted to be a tank, I could. I firmly feel that DPS running ahead and repeatedly intentionally pulling shit the tank didnt pull is several orders of magnitude more disrespectful than the tank essentially saying, "okay, if that's what you want to do, you take it." It's just, look, I've been playing this game for 10 years now, and in the beginning, when the community was small, everyone was SUPER nice. You never, EVER saw a DPS intentionally run ahead of a tank to pull shit the tank didn't. EVER. People understood their roles and followed them. I didn't start seeing DPS completely disregarding the roles and doing whatever they wanted until the WoW exodus happened around just before Endwalker. Suddenly, there were DPS who would literally just take off at a full sprint the micro-second the circle gate dropped, and leave every other person on the team in the dust while they frantically attack everything in sight. It's stupid. It gets people killed. I've seen that shit wipe parties WAY more than any of the other issues on this list. I dont think its okay for tanks to grief DPS that are like this by letting them die, but if you're not the tank, dont pull. If you wanna go faster, just talk about it!

I've been guilty of YPYT a few years ago. When you have that DPS that's positioned to be a few steps ahead of you, sprints that 1.5 seconds first, etc... etc... and runs face first into everything it can be really stressful. As a DPS if I'm getting ahead of my tank I try to stop outside of pack aggro range so when they catch up they can engage how they prefer. Though tanks that face pull at higher levels still baffle me.

Was helping a newbie in my fc doing aurum vale and we ended up with not only the most incompetent healer but the rudest one at that and after the first boss we decide "lets just get this over with and we will most likely never see this dude again" but dude kept going on and on and we got fed up, so right before i pulled the last boss we vote kicked him

There's only one default speed and that is max speed. Unless a severe skill issue prohibits that (which, hey. It's fine, we all gotta start somewhere), expecting a tank to go slow by default is like giving Usain Bolt a cane or taking away a soldier's caffeine. It goes entirely against their raison d'être. If I am tanking, and I miss a pack, I WANT people to ninja pull to non-verbally communicate to me "Hey dipshit. You missed one". If the tank isn't trying to make things go fast, you might as well have queued in as a triple DPS + Healer. However, the real kick in the bollocks is that the FF community is on average more afraid to hurt other people's feelings than most communities that it allows bad habits and bad behaviour to fester like an infectious wound. You almost never can give constructive criticism without most people taking personal offense to it and getting their knickers in a twist. No matter the amount of sugarcoating. You end up with absolutely dumbass tanks by level 80 because they've been overcoddled and everyone is afraid to give advice. We all need to be more willing to take, AND give advice. Remember, "you're doing a terrible job" isn't inherently a personal attack. It can just as well be a statement of fact when supported by actual arguments.

So I agree entirely for the most part. The part where I 100% disagree with is where tank and healer get to decide the pace of the dungeon. I 1000% think the tank gets the majority of the say when pulling period, the healer second and the dps should just be happy they get to play dps. Tanks are literally the ones pulling, they choose the mits, ect. Healers are the ones who have to keep up the appropriate amount of healing so if they don't have the capacity for wall to wall then they can choose to slow down as well. Hell I dont even care if healers don't dps but it is very preferred obviously. This is coming from someone who plays tank/dps about as evenly as possible and healer not too far behind. I would also like to say that the tank "You pull it you tank it" should only ever be applied if there is repeated purposeful pulls on the healer/dps part. If I ever (which never really happens aside malikahs well golems) pull a single pack as a tank and another party member chooses to pull the next pack ON PURPOSE aka on the second pack after I said not too, then you better believe I am ranged attacking as a tank on the first mob pack only and shirking them. They stay in their lane clear as day. It doesn't take that much longer to slow pull. Either that or they need to stay tanking, either or.

If you want to pull only 1 pack as a tank that is your choice. If as a dps I choose to pull the 2nd pack, bring the mobs into the first pack, pop bloodbath and second wind to tank the 2 pack that is my choice.

Group agreement is one thing ninjapullers usually don't ask they just keep doing it cos they think they are deciding how fast you can go. I had one today, a healer who made my job twice as hard by pulling so far ahead it messed up everything. He was rude and aggressive as well, he is now blacklisted and my next run went smooth as a nut, same dungeon, next run different group. I play tanks and healers a lot but when I DPS I never ninja pull because I know how annoying it is. Also running way ahead of your healer at the beginning of the run is a sure way to die, noone can heal round corners and if they cant see you that's it, just wait a sec it will make the run go so much smoother and noone dies, also have fun it is supposed to be a game after all.