In this one we touch on why I dig back up or offset dots for redundancy and for strange circumstances. Even in conjunction with conventional dots as the main source of aiming. Try it out! Bet you’ll like it!
Point of back up irons is that it's a chunk of metal/ high quality polymer that does not get affected by weather/ dirt / or any outside elements. It's supposed to be a fail safe so if anything or everything fails. You have them to rely on
Interesting points. Having learned to shoot on irons, I really have no problem using them; in fact out to 100, I’d argue I’m more accurate, if not just as accurate, as I am with a dot. Back up irons still make sense to me.
I really dig offset dots, my personal guns have irons on them still. I like that fact that irons are not bothered by rain or humidity and or dirt/batteries. I really like that for a backup aiming solution. I have seen far more electronic sights fail than irons fail, even though red dots are far superior in regards to aiming the gun. No wrong answers on this one. Just make sure they're zeroed 🇺🇲.
this guys an idiot, don’t you dare do this set-up… say it’s freezing outside electronics don’t work; batteries die, in a long fight; don’t have electricity. life goes to crap, irons are back-ups BECAUSE THEY WONT FAIL!!! jeez how dumb is this comment section, you’re not dropping ppl long distance w/ that stupid optic off set: while i’ve dropped people w/ eotech & irons over 600yards
I’ve got a 509T offset to my 1-6 on my go to rifle. I do have irons as well, but only because I already had them. If I didn’t already have them laying around, I certainly wouldn’t have bought another set. If my razor and dot go down in a fight, God’s calling me home pretty loudly at that point.
This method is logical in the current social environment. And if you have a dedicated WROL or grid down weapon it is perfectly viable to have a primary rifle with this set up. But I only have one rifle. And in a prolonged WROL society, I definitely want irons. In the event that I can’t necessarily get my primary optic back up and running due to lack of logistics, I don’t wanna be stuck with an offset sight for a long period of time.
Never really thought about this as an option but after listening to you explain I think it’s a far better way to go rather than irons. It’s definitely has a weird vibe to it just being that it’s 2 red dots but like you said everyone agrees it’s ok to have a red dot with a lvpo. Thanks for the info 🤘
don’t be stupid lol if you guys can shoot irons well, you shouldn’t be using optics. you guys miss the point of irons will never fail, never fall off, always be their. two optics still have a chance of failing and having nothing. you’re in super cold weather seen optics go out, seen electronic issues from tough wear and tear, battery issues. both have to always be on. everything about it’s stupid, and if you can’t see that you’re clueless on a real firefight war and having back-ups irons. flip up irons are dumb also, fixed only way to go. you can even do fixes 45 degree irons. you don’t out 2-3 optics on your firearm you idiots 😂😂 i’ve seen optics shot and both out of the fight. seen irons hit; and still finished the fight
The older I get, the more I believe every rifle needs non battery operated sights. Regarding iron sights falling off, that's user error, unless they bought cheap sights. Remember, loctite needs you to use their primer since the metal has a coating. If loctite can't touch bare metal, it needs their primer. Or, you could switch to VC3 or nail polish. Vortex recommends nail polish.
Ha... great vid!!! I just recently did the same thing. Built a new pistol and was missing a set of irons... had an rmr and an offset mount layin' around... Figured I do it on scoped rifles so why not. It's the best thing I ever stumbled upon. Think outside the box boys... it's awesome. YMMV
How do you address the issue of rifle cant with the offset mount? The trajectory is no longer in the same plane as the line of sight. I totally respect Mark and want to know what he does. Each method is a compromise, and I would like to get some good advice about handling the issue of canted sights. I've asked my local police instructors for advice in a similar polite and respectful manner. They did not understand what canting the sights does, so they ridiculed me for asking the question. The rest of the students and Police Officers piled on with more insults. Gotta love it. Mark is so respectful and has integrity and expertise.
Each optic is zeroed independently. So long as the rifle is zeroed to each optic independently while they are parallel to the earth, all that is required is to make sure as best you can that they are in the same configuration when shooting.
Great points! And thanks because now I don’t feel as stupid, lol. Thought about doing this but no one does it so figured it was a “solution looking for a problem”. I don’t shoot rifle much but do want a higher mount than my irons will be visible through so thought about an offset dot. Very good points on shooting in awkward positions and using a solar version. Thanks for the practical knowledge 👍
Another option would be to instead of using a magnifier, using a prism optic (3x/5x/1x) on a qd. So you take it on and off like a magnifier based on need, but it also has a reticle if your rds battery crashed. Also you can have different zeros. As long as you change your batteries you'll be ok. The idea is to have something analog available.
This genius. I love eotech’s but the battery life and auto shut off has kept me away. And like you said I don’t like irons. You have any experience with the Holosun 509T. I like that’s it a closed emitter but I’ve heard the glass isn’t good. As in distortion central! Thanks and keep up the good work. I learn more from you than any of the mainstream channels.
The 509t x2 is the second gen that reportedly has clearer glass. I’ve got about a year on my 509t and the distortion is exceptionally minimal only noticeable when specially looking for it
I have an LCO on an ADM QD riser that makes it the same height as the Unity. I’ve been seriously thinking of sticking a small dot on a lower mount behind the LCO to try out for something like this. With the QD I could rip it off just like I’d have to do to use the irons anyways and have a better sighting system as mentioned.
@Florida Man HVACR saving an optic is the least of my concerns if I get to the point that I seriously need the gun to work and don’t have time to diagnose the primary optic.
@Florida Man HVACR man you’re getting too deep into hypotheticals for me to choose this hill to die on. I simply stated that I had considered trying it out to see how it would work. I’m not attached enough to something I haven’t even tried to argue with a stranger on the internet over.
I always 45 degree a red dot with scoped rifles are acog rifles, but my eotech rifle it’s setup to have back up Troy irons god forbid the eotech goes out. Haha of course it’s got a dbal and mainly used for nods work so I doubt the irons will ever get used I don’t plan on grabbing that gun for a all out war gun. That would be a the acog with a rmr on a 45 degree to the right side in left handed haha so it like super smooth to tilt the gun slightly and basically have a regular red dot setup . For anything farther than point aiming and less than 50 yards it’s money but the acog is surprisingly good for like 50 yard and farther transitions.. tried a lot of LPVO and in the end stuck with trij acog 4x it’s just the perfect optic for a 556 carbine.
I think the best, bad only, argument against this is ambiguity. I still choose an offset closed emitter because of the holdovers though. Good video, well said as always Mark.
Why not just go with irons with a lower 1/3 cowitness ?.. That way your sight picture isn't too crowded. It's the same concept as having a red dot on your pistol. Better to have that than 2 optics that could give out from malfunction or batteries. I hated irons for the same reason, but I came back around for practical reasons. Right now I'm running a vortex uh1 with scalarworks peak sights at a lower 1/3 and I have no complaints. I can look over the sights and directly at the reticle or slightly nod my head and be in alignment with the irons. Even if you are looking through the irons, the rear sight is barely visible if you're focusing on the reticle.
Lots of reasons. The eotech is the finest, cleanest aiming dot, unmatched in window size, and under NODs it does things no other dot does as well as it he eotech.
With the fact that the small red dots are now as durable, and as long lasting battery capacity as anything larger, I cannot understand why anyone would choose not to do this. Holding true to this old iron sights ideal seems silly. I even match my green lpvo to a smaller green red dot. Why not?
Why not get the Unity offset red dot arm for the unity tactical riser? They rarely show it off but the screws and hole pattern looks like it matches their LVPO mount.
I actually prefer iron sights aiming with red dot is too easy... plus the fact their reliable and basically can never fail. It can but it's extremely rare especially if you upgrade to Troy's back up sights since thier made of metals instead of weaker polymers from magpul. Although I do like that magpuls springs up with a click of a button.
@@jbstraininggroup3640 Could you tell me which brand or style? I tried the same thing with my patrol rifle and got these Listos marking pencils and they rub off very quickly. Tried asking our armorer and he didn't have a clue lol.
@josephcoates879 I grabbed a paint pen at hobby lobby while there with the wife. Works great for witness marks. When you pick it up and shake it, it'll have that little ball in it like a spray paint can
@@jbstraininggroup3640 lol 10-4 the never ending rabbit hole of what ifs. I was watching a trijicon scope review from 1911 syndicate and that was a concern of his, and why he chose a tritium scope
It's not that hard to shoot with irons, this is getting into LARPing territory. I would go with irons because they are indestructible compared to any red dot. The red dot is to solve a gap for lpvo's for the CQB part that lpvo's suck doing.
Not that hard? Meh. Maybe. Easier with dot? Yes. I don’t need it to be indestructible. I just need it to be a backup. Do you. You’re getting into FUDD territory.
This "idea" would have been new in 2010. It's been around long before you and hasn't gained traction for a reason. Two dots is also the absolute worst version of it.
Aw man. I really thought I was onto something. Thank goodness you came along with this info. I never said I invented it. I just made a video about it. More training, less internet. Ok. Bye.
I hear you, I really do... However, I respectfully disagree. Running two powered / energy dependent optics for the sake of shooter comfort is like putting two socks on each foot instead of wearing boots... It'll keep you warm and make you feel comfortable, but compared to boots, socks won't offer much protection from a steaming river of shit when you have no choice but to trudge through it... In the event of an EMP attack or other scenario that knocks out all electronic components, what are you gonna rely on for target acquisition if you don't have material backup optics? Hopes and dreams? At that point, you're fucked and your entire weapon just became useless. You said think outside the box brother. Those are outside the box, yet extremely possible scenarios. Just some brain food for you to chew on. I digress. Cheers.
I have optics stowed in faraday bags for such events. Along with other plans. We aren’t there yet. I also have many sets of iron sights in case it happens this Saturday or whatever. But it ain’t. Thanks for your thoughts.
@@jbstraininggroup3640 fair enough. Hopefully we never get there, but with the way the world is these days, who knows? No problem. Also, by no means was I trying to be a chode about that. I simply enjoy some good talking points and exchanging ideas. I definitely dig the concept. I've used offset dots on friends' weapons and they definitely feel better than irons. I just can't ditch my BUIS. But hey, to each his own. If it works for you, it works for you!
Offset optics have been used in 3gun competition for a very long time. What you’re doing isn’t anything new or innovative.. Open division will run dual rds on their shotguns. If you’re just discovering this, you are very late to the party.. lol 😂
