The one thing I did, on all my Break Cues, was put on a new hard leather tip, with a Crown Radius of a quarter to a half dollar. It cuts down on squirt & throw & diminishes mis-cues. It's more important to learn the Break Shot, than it is to buy a Break Cue. I never had a Cue that taught me anything...
I agree and have always felt that a heavy cue breaks better. But what I've noticed, at least for me, is that you can get similar results with a lighter cue if you don't pause your stroke. In other words, instead of stopping your stroke after your warn up strokes, you fire without stopping so that the momentum of your warm ups carry through. I'd be interested in your test results.
Physics says that makes sense. Force=mass x acceleration. The pause however is only relevant if it causes you to not be at the highest acceleration at point of contact.
@@donkeydiehard879exactly. A lighter cue with the same force (person) results in higher acceleration and higher cue contact speed. This translates to increased cue ball energy and better breaks. That's what I am thinking.....
I have an 18oz BK Rush and I tested it up against a 25oz I think it was an Action. The BK I was getting speeds of 23mph and the rack would explode on impact. The 25oz was only 20mph but also had a nice impact. These are using my standard break controlling the cue ball. I also tried a 16oz BK Rush and got the speed up to 25mph but lost control. The lighter the break cue the faster the break speed. Through my testing the 18oz BK Rush murders the rack! And talking to many players about their thoughts on the break determined that high rank players go for the 18oz while lower rank players go for the 25oz. For lower ranked players the 25oz is much easier to control as the heavier weigh tends to keep their stroke straighter. It might be worth making a video myself about this topic because of the many different opinions. All these tests were done on a 7ft Diamond with Andy cloth.
Finally, someone else doing some tests! I think this is more evidence that break cue weight is not a one size fits all. I don't challenge that pros use lighter cues, but that doesn't work for me. And the 22 is definitely working - last night I made at least 2 balls on every rack and balls moving everywhere, the rack explosion you describe. Skill level may be a factor (I'm an 8-ball league 6). I'd also be curious to factor in body type or even just speed baseline - for someone who can generate 20+ mph naturally, the weight might become a deterrent, but sub 20 mph the weight seems to be a boost. A theory anyway. Definitely consider getting a weight bolt for the BK so you can try a test apples to apples.
@@PoolandBilliards - I tested my cheapie little monster break cue vs a BK Rush. I felt i got a little more action on the BK, but it wasn't world of difference, but it did seem a little noticable. I connected my extension on my little monster break cue which adds about 4 ounces to the break cue and it seemed to hinder the break just a tiny bit, but not much.
been playing almost 50 years. When I started using a break cue it was 42oz. Today I use a 31oz breaker. Putting some ass into it I can get a break speed in the mid/upper 20's. I settle on low 20's shorter bridge and around 14" of follow thur. Breaking from center head string with left or right half a diamond depending on the rack rotation. Full lead ball. I drop at least 1 ball 70% of the time. Average a 8 or 9 on the break 1 in 30. Personally I find hitting the lead ball full far more impactful when breaking balls than the speed itself.
Working on this very thing myself. Just ordered the 27 oz elite. It's no 31 but its the most you can buy. Will run some speed tests on it. I'm also trying to fine tune my "pop" break and see if it actually spreads the balls better, and how the weight of the cue impacts this technique. Do you aim to have the cue ball pop and drop center table?
Man that is the video I really needed. I have a spare Lucasi cue that I have laying around because I got a Pechauer cue to replace it. I've been planning to get the Black Ice break shaft for it and now I'm gonna crank the weight up to 25 oz. as well as change the tip on it thinking the Kamui Sai Control tip will do nicely.
Glad to hear it. Let me know what tip you put in it and what you think. I've tried a few composite tips and felt they left some power on the table. I plan to put a leather break tip on it next, but haven't decided which.
I just went down a deep rabbit hole about the difference between momentum and kinetic energy... not sure I cracked the case open any further, but sure is interesting. But I think you may mean momentum?
@@PoolandBilliards - Momentum and Kinetic Energy are slightly different but the idea is the same. Think of someone shooting a Bow - When you use a lighter arrow the arrow may be traveling faster but it doesn't hit as hard. There is a happy medium with that though. When these Bow companies put out speed ratings on each Bow they are set up at a certain Draw Weight & Length and Arrow Weight. When you increase the weight of the arrow your kinetic energy goes up to a certain point where then the energy goes down even though the weight of the arrow keeps increasing. I don't think your speed would decrease to much by using a 25 ounce cue over a 19 ounce but I believe if it could be measured "I think" the energy the cue ball has when it first connects to the rack of balls would be greater with the 25 ounce over say a 19 ounce. Something to think about.
Thanks for doing the research. While speed is a big factor, the ability to control the cue ball and ball separation is not discussed. What good is hitting the rack fast but you loss the rock often? I personally use a light Cuetec WCT break cue with a Samsara break tip. This combo affords me adequate speed with control and ball separation.
Definitely true that speed isn't everything. For me, the idea is isolating one factor at a time. There is an undeniable correlation of speed to ball spread, so let's first figure out the best way to generate speed, that way, when I let up a bit to focus on technique I will maintain the highest speed possible with that technique.
I own BK Rush and appreciate your taking time to do the research. I think your finding on the relation between weight and speed is sound. But, maybe, for people who use more technical breaking techniques with controlled spins, higher speed might be less desirable? I imagine it would be really challenging to establish the relation between cue weight and spin speed, but I’m curious about it.
Do you mean spin for an 8 ball or 9 ball spread? Either way, we should add rack gaps to the list. Good info out there on this, but few people apply it.
The reason the heavy break cues seem as good is because they are roughly the same speed. For instance my controled easy break is about 20.5mph with an 18oz cue. We did a test with the Predator BKRush, Mezz Power Break G, Go Custom, Tiger Icebreaker, Pure X, Original Sledgehammer, Cuetec Breech, and the 25oz Action. With the same stroke the Action performed the worst because it was almost 2 mph slower with the same stroke. (Tested on a 7ft Diamond) But speed is not the key to measuring but acceleration is. The cue ball is still accelerating when it hits the rack. That is why 20mph sounds like a gunshot. If I hit every break at 18mph the Action would be right back with the other cues. I can get the break speed up to 26mph on a 9ft because the acceleration distance is longer. My wife used the 25oz break cue to begin with because the weight helped train her stroke. She used to break about 14mph with it. Once she hit the balls solid with a controlled stroke I bought her the Pink Pure X she wanted. Her break speed immediately went up tp 16.5mph-17.5mph. I hope this helps!
Thanks for your take on this! So few people actually do tests of their own, I can only respect your results. I wonder too as I progress if someday my results will change, favoring a lighter cue. But we both are right in a way - I'm arguing for mass, and you for acceleration. There's a balance of the two, a sweet spot for every person holding a cue that translates into force.
@@PoolandBilliards You are right about the sweet spot! Every player has one. Try this, practice for 1 hr with the heaviest break cue you have. After that try the lightest and I think you will be amazed at the difference. Great channel my friend!
Another test... maybe someday, though I suspect this would have very limited results. However, I do have an Irish linen grip that is legitimately slippery. I wax it by rubbing a candle on it every few months. I should just get it redone... but I bet that grip would be slower.
I think the optimum weight goes with how much you can personally handle. A 120 pound woman or man probably can't handle what a 200 pound man could. A heavier cue allows a stronger person to leverage their power. Anyone breaking with a chop stick would get lousy results. Using a 50 pound pool stick would probably be very slow. I saw something interesting before in an old video, Howard Vickery had a break cue with a titanium shaft. His breaks were good, but didn't seem superior.
This lands in the realm of untested theory for me. Sounds good for sure, but is it true? My hunch is that actually the most important factor is perfecting the ratio of cue weight to ball weight, with the the range of normal human strength being the least important factor. Someday I will test cue weights with lightweights and see what happens. My guess is actually the opposite - the less force a human can generate the more valuable it is to have a heavy cue for producing cue speed.
I used to think the same thing. I used to also think that MASS x Velocity = Momentum...which would make my break better. But like I said earlier, I left my cue extension on my break cue, which adds about 4 more ounces to the break cue. It didn't do much for whatever reason. I'm sure you can come up with some creative ways to add weight to your break cue. And maybe for your stoke, it might make a difference. It didn't work for me.
If u bring your back hand forward on the cue. Stay loose concentrate on hand speed and follow throu... get that down ...then focus on where the cueball hits the rack if your hitting the head ball there is definitely a sweet spot. What I'm getting at is you DO NOT need a huge backswing. Then work on weight shift and timing. You'll controll a much harder break
I do like my hand toward the rear for my level break, but definitely having to move it forward for the jump break I'm working on. Still messing around with distance and elevation but it's harder to have a full follow through with a downward angle and the forward grip helps... I think.
@Poolometry you don't need to jump. Just a small hip and torso turn timed right. Also no need to force the tip throu the slate. Quarter tip high and finish low with the follow thou produces a flat(no spin) cueball for me anyways. Cue ball squats mid table after hitting rack if executed proper
My research consistently results in phenolic tips being inferior to hard leather or hybrid tips. But certainly a break tip on any old cue is a very cost efficient solution that will perform respectably.
Yes, I have heard the same thing and no reason to doubt it. But in this experiment I question everything, trying my best not to have any preconceived notions about the best method or equipment. I think of the "pros use 18" argument like this though, in a match when I give a coach to a 2 or 3 rank it's not the information that I would give to a higher rank. Their skill set just can't do the more complex shots that better players can. You see it all the time when a higher level player asks a lower level player to do something they can't do and it just is a mess. Same goes for equipment. Does a 2 who shoots with one speed and no English need a carbon fiber shaft? And for most of us amateurs, the gap between us and the pros is probably even wider. To simply say we should do what the pros do might not be the best advice. Everyone needs technique and equipment that matches their skill level.
@@PoolandBilliards In addition, most people overlook the amount of added mechanics the pros incorporate into their break. If you look at SVB's break, the only stationary component is his bridge hand. And, sure, he uses a lighter cue - but the combination of the rest of his mechanics is what differs from from a beginner/intermediate player's break. It is pretty well documented that a lighter cue does a better job of transferring your cue speed to your break, at this point. BUT, like you said, giving an amateur a lighter cue and telling them to "do it just like Shane" isn't going to work. Thank you for the time and effort that you put into this series to present some objective data for us "mere mortals"!
@@clinttaurus247 Yeah for me this is especially how they throw their body forward. If I go at it that hard I lose the accuracy on the head ball that is priority #1. Plans to get a breakRAK someday and maybe put in the time to develop my stroke a bit more.
Can I ask you please, about your bk rush cues are always without sport grip, if you have a point at this choice tell us please, before I get one expensive bk with sport wrap.
On most of the break cues I bought it was just the only option whether it had a wrap or not. For the BK I now hold the cue so far back that I am basically beyond the wrap and I tuck my pinky around the end for a firm grip anyway, so on both accounts I wouldn't really use the grip. The grip is going to benefit shorter players who don't have as far rear of a grip location or players who choke up on the cue as a technique. Without it it's cheaper and one less thing to wear out over time although that's not been a reported problem. Overall I'd say whatever you feel more comfortable with. I don't perceive the wrap / no wrap choice will make a significant difference. However there are some new reverse taper cues that are a very interesting concept but I have not tried them.
Thanks for this decent response, I enjoyed your videos, and they're really helped me with your information now to make my final decision about my next new break.
@@khalidb2199 - you have probably already made that decision--I had the older BK break cue with the sports wrap and loved it for about two years and then the wrap completely fell apart as if it were dry rot. After speaking with others, it sounded like a fluke. A teammate of mine purchased one right before we went to the VNEA together and I planned on buying one at the event, however, they were sold out and I used his--absolutely loved it. The tackiness of the sports wrap makes a loose grip feel like it's still in control and I broke great with it. That was back in May and I used his break cue again about a month ago... the original tackiness became much more smooth... still felt nice but clearly different than after his original purchase. My playing cue is also a Predator with their leather wrap and I've been shooting with it for several years--another teammate bought a predator cue with a leather wrap this past year--at that same VNEA tournament, I took a few shots with his and had a similar experience... his was much tackier than mine... mine smoothed out so slowly over such a long time that it wasn't noticeable to me until having a new one to compare it to. So for me, I look at the variables of the cue that can change--wooden shafts can warp or actually get a smaller diameter over time with cleanings, wraps can get smoother and the tip changes shape and thickness... by going with a carbon fiber shaft and no wrap, only the tip becomes variable while the other two are constants. My plan at the BCA this year is to purchase the BK Rush with no wrap... at some point, I'll upgrade my playing cue to not having a wrap as well. Love those sports wrap and leather wraps when they're new... but they will inevitably change.
I don't understand how you figure that you can move a 23-25 Oz. stick faster than a 16-18 Oz. stick. Mike Segal discovered at least 10 years ago that it's not how much weight you put behind the cue ball, it's how fast you move the cue ball.
Theory is great, but my experimental data consistently proves a heavy cue results in a greater force applied to the cue ball, for me. Emphasis on for me. But, I would add that it is basic knowledge that speed alone is not enough, but the combination of speed and mass - that's the ticket. Moving a pencil at 500 mph would not work as a breaker, nor a 4x4 at 2 mph. Move a 16oz cue and a 25 oz cue at the same speed - the larger mass will produce a greater force. It's finding the sweet spot. Mine is a heavier cue.
This is not accurate for EVERYONE. This is results for YOUR break. There are too many unique factors that impact the physics of the break. Height, weight, stroke timing, muscle type(fast twitch vs slow twitch), flexibility... Just to name a few. Momentum, Force, acceleration, velocity, energy and mass are all considered when discussing a break. The ONLY time a heavier break cue will GUARENTEE to produce better results is if the cue velocity and acceleration are the same with both light and heavy cue. Which never happens since mass is inversely proportional to acceleration. Just discussing basic force equation display why a heavier cue doesn't equal a better break. (Omitting torque, energy etc.) F=Ma. F=force a=acceleration=change in velocity per change in time= (dv/dt) M=mass So F/M=(dv/dt), meaning acceleration and mass are inversely related. Acceleration (change in velocity) is directly related to force. If mass increases, acceleration decreases. If mass decreases, acceleration increases, therefore acceleration increases. The key is to find at what mass(weight) someone can produce the most CONTROLLED acceleration. For the majority of people in this world, if stroke timing and stroke are correct, a lighter cue will produce greater acceleration and more force than a heavier cue. Taller people can sometimes have good results with heavier break cues because they have a longer lever arm and therefore more torque.
This comment seems to be about my best break cue weight video. Have you done speed tests at various weights yourself? What are your numbers for a test like this? Have you collected enough data to substantiate your "for the majority of people in this world" claim? I find people are more apt to throw theory like this back at me but have never tried this test for themself, let alone a large enough sample for your claim. For me, it is worth noting that it is not so much about top speed, but about average. I can hit 20+ now with any weigh break cue, but my average is better with heavier cues. The slight miss-hits on a lighter cue seem to really affect the speed, but a heavier cue bullies through. If you can, try the weight to speed test yourself with at least 10 breaks each with at least 3 weights and report back.
@@RichardsWorld Working on it. Can't play because of ankle surgery. But I've added upper body workouts to my daily PT. Will never be a hulk, but certainly am stronger than before. Looking forward to testing out my break speed in a few weeks and seeing any effects it has.
Yeah, there's a good chance it's a waste of money! If the flowers cue works for you though enjoy it and don't look back, but in all my tests phenolic tips don't work as well for me, tests I've shown and tests I didn't put in videos. Also the 58 in favors people who like to choke up on the cue but maybe because I'm taller I'm finding a longer cue is better for a rear grip. But if I get the funds maybe I'll spring for that one too and give it a whirl.
I also am using the J Flowers cue with phenolic tip. It’s becoming a very solid break cue for me. I’m 5’11 and it’s a good length once I got used to it.
@@Funkyfresh408 How did you get to 21 oz? Did you cut the weight bolt? You've got me thinking, I want to try the weight test again with that just that cue.
adding weight to a BK Rush will ruin it. tried that...many dry breaks. Work on your stroke; bridge; follow through on your breaks n you'll get consistent results
Ha. And it's my brand of choice! I've got two more Pechauer cues, four rogue shafts, and their jump cue on the way... to find out now I've been saying it wrong... Just don't tell me it's actually the BK Roooosh.
I have done this. I can provide a copy of the email. According to the company representative that wrote me back, it is pronounced Peach-Hour. However, the name is German in origin and a friend from Germany has told me that in Germany that name is pronounced Pesch-hour. So there you have it.
@@michaeltrumph121 It's all good. BK Rush is my favorite of these, but indeed I only had the budget for one high end cue. I wouldn't doubt others in that price point are also excellent.
