Years ago I tested a vic jr and a perfomer rpm on a 355 with brodix track 1s, 265/275@.050 roller cam, 13/1, 8" ati converter, 543 rear gears. 14 ×32 slicks. The car ran a best of 6.78 with vic Jr. The performer rpm ran a best of 6.72 in the 1/8th.
Interesting. I have a Wilson ported Victor Jr. I have had it near 20 years. It's been on 6 different small blocks in that time. It is the best running intake I have ever had on any small block Chevy.
And that's why I run Victor Jr intakes. They have out done every dual plane intake I have ever used. If the car is set up for it, it will out perform a dual plane at a 4,000 rpm roll or on the track. Even on a 327, they work well. If you're going after groceries on Sunday after riding around in own Saturday night, a rpm might be more suitable, but for what I do, I prefer the Jr
I'll have to say, that's a little surprising, especially considering the competition but you said the key words: "application dependent". That's the ticket, and why I think even CNC ported heads have their limitations as well and why there probably isn't an absolute king of the hill in heads, ports, or intakes. It's the application that determines the success but the information and data you are putting together here is a HUGE step forward to helping anyone trying to build the best motor they can without having 20+ intakes at hand, and tons of time and resources to test.
Eric I agree. I thought the Super victor would have devastated hands down. but it goes to show that's not always the case ..as you explained the cross sectional area with the velocity works well. made outstanding power ..I really appreciate what you do always good to learn from you .. Keep up the good work ..
I'd love to see the same tests run with AFR 210 heads. I would think the 1206 port sized manifolds would improve due to not hitting a restriction at the head.
Hi Eric, great stuff...really enjoy! Some thoughts regarding the Team G. As you confirmed from your measurements the Team G is both lower and amongst other things, less volume. If you add a half inch spacer to the Team G, the flange height will be a closer match to the Victor Jr. The volume will obviously increase somewhat. You know all of this. Just setting the table for what comes next. Take a close look at the Team G flange (top). Notice the machine work at the center point from front to back. See the clearance flat and the sharp V configuration? Well...Weiand engineers did that for a specific reason. The Team G is machined in that way to accept an accessory guillotine style plenum divider which slid into a 1/2" aluminum spacer. The flat detent cut above the V in the manifold is there for clearance to allow the guillotine to butt up against, at the point of the V...when installed on/in the manifold. Suffice it to say, you'll find a very different result with that divider in place. The improved drivability of a circle track engine with that plate installed is notable. Would love to see the Team G retested with the added volume, height and Guillotine plate in place. It was specifically designed that way. The manifold you tested is the low height, designed to be used with or without the Divider. There are two other part numbers that are raised 1" and the other 2" for higher RPM application. I have one of the original plates here if you'd like to check it out. I'll send it to you...send it back when you're done.
This has been my experience with the Victor Jr on my moderate small block Ford. I've been happy with my choice for over 20 years now with different cams, carbs, etc. It does magic tricks.
so the moral of the story is, there is no 1 best manifold. each individual manifold may be best for a particular engine. im a big fan of the strip dominator, but have run vic jr's for hood clearance, and have never felt let down using one.
Eric, I believe if you would have done this intake test with an engine making 650+ hp and heads capable of 300+ cfm, this would be a more informative series of tests. Each intake would have been worked and taxed showing hp loss, rather than gains, which would provide more accurate data. I appreciate all your time and effort and this information is useful still.
MY COMMENT IS GOOD JOB.. THE RIGHT COMBINATION FOR YOUR APPLICATION IN THE RPM RANGE ALWAYS WINS. PEOPLE FORGET ITS THE COMBO NOT 1 OR 2 THINGS..PEOPLE GET EXCITED ABOUT THEIR BUILDS AND GO BIG WHICH SOMETIME HURT. I HAVE ALWAYS TRUSTED THE DYNO TESTED COMBO FROM OTHERS AND FOLLOWED THE RECIPE.
Ive been watching your vids on this and recently purchased an unported older victor jr intake for my 400ci sbc and I plan on getting afr 195 enforcer heads....yes somewhat copying your 406 build but also plan on building the shortblock for turbo as i have a single turbo setup for the small block. This will be going into my 74 cj5. 👍😎👍
Wholeheartedly agree. Last year I ran a AFR 4811 on my 427 SBC powered camaro. Over the winter I swapped to a Edelbrock 2892 super Vic 2. Both were only port matched. The car picked up .17 and 3 mph in the quarter.
Great video I have the Victor Jr on my bb 439 because they claimed it worked the best with the afr 265 oval ports and that Lil motor made 661 hp 605 torque with a Howard's 235x241@50 618 lift with a 108lsa. It really surprised me that it made over 600 hp
Awesome video really I have a team G in the corner and also will have a Victor Junior that I just took off for the Chinese intake in your previous videos picked up 2/10 215 dart heads 410 Engine 650 solid lifter cam S10 truck
I always liked the look of the Team G. It reminds me of my old Edelbrock Scorpion intake I ran on my old 327. It was fully ported though along with some GM 041 heads by Lynn Morris. Woke that little 327 right up. But interesting outcome with this set up. The vic Jr has always been a popular intake for the sbc. I'd be curious to see how porting the manifold would change things. But that's a lot of work.
We got .2 seconds with a vic Jr over anything we ran. 355 with camel humps insanely ported with 13.14cr. 270/703lift solid roller. Ran best times with 850cfm carb. Lots of street miles
Best way to make power is to deliver equal amount of thorougly mixed go-go charge to each cylinder. As for the Victor Jr, I'd say the first two inches from the head flange back is the most important factor. In the G model, the outer runners have very sharp turn right at the end, when the Vic Jr. had much wider curve on the outer runners. Sharper turns create more turbulence, and the higher the RPM, these turbulences become more important factors.
Another Victor jr story- 10 years ago, I tested a then new Super Victor II 2892 against a 1” tall victor jr. (2999 iirc) with some clean-up work and a 1” open spacer on top with similar results. 3150 lb. 1st Gen Camaro with a 374” sbc with old cleaned up AFR 220’s, 13 to 1, 274/278 roller, alky carb, low 6k stall, shifted 7500, 5.14 gear with 32x14 slicks. The 2892 lost a full tenth and 1 mph by 1/8th mile and stayed there through 1/4 mile. Car ran high 6.3X at 108 and 10.0 at 133.
The jr is an interesting compromise: doesn't have an exhaust crossover, but it does have that shark mouth opening with the water crossover on top. It ducts to center under the carb and heat can exhaust out the sides and back. [The 2925 does not have this feature - maybe a dyno run is too short to see where it really shines?] You get a gentle floor warming, but I have no idea how even it is. It would be really interesting to chart bottom of runner temps say... 2 1/2" or so from cylinder head gasket, which would be only for the determined builder willing to fab a bulkhead connector near distributor on it to suit 8 j/k thermocouples. An intake manifold can't help it given what its bolted to: its number 2 function is... a heat exchanger, like it or not. Where materials and geometry are fixed, there's two variables in garnering best operation: temperature differential, and time [read velocity]. Thermostat selection is therefore part of top end configuration with this manifold, and porting will tilt it one way or the other.
According to HerbMcCandless Edelbrocks Chevy Victor Jr was a direct copy of the Mopar W2 intake Herb developed for the 340 Mopar in the mid 70’s. Edelbrock took the fiberglass prototype from herb to make the Mopar manifold but it was so good they copied it for the Chevy If you look objectively look side by side at the Victor 340 Mopar and the Victor jr Chevy you can see internally they are virtually identical except for the obvious compensation for the 1/2” difference in deck height. The Team G is basically a single 4 barrel tunnel ram because it doesn’t really have much of a floor in the plenum. IMO they are great in super light cars with deep gears or something like an econo dragster As I understand taper ( from the late Larry smith who I’m sure you heard of) taper slows the reflected wave back to the plenum and at critical speeds allows the plenum to act larger store more mass and charge)forcing more air and fuel mass toward the intake valves. Almost like a check valve. I enjoy your tech analysis immensely this is one of my favorite channels!
This is truly great stuff Eric. I agree with your assessment in as much as the manifold that works best with this combination, might not be the best for the next. Just shows how informative dyno testing can be, if done correctly. Regards Greg
I have a Performance Products single plane and a Vic Jr for my 406, I guess I now know for sure which one to run,lol. I had always heard to use a Vic Jr for a SBC and Team G for the BBC.
The open plenum manifolds are great for full on racing, but I soon learned these open plenum manifolds suck on the street. In my '70 Z-28, I went back to the factory dual plane manifold. I believe GM did their homework for a street application
Interesting and it'll be interesting to see if the bigger runner cylinder heads likes the taller intakes like the Super Vic. over the Vic Jr. The Tam G was a favored intake for the more serious guys.
Adding my 2 cents. I think the jr intake was more matched to the heads. The other intakes were not being used to their full potential due the the smallish heads..
Usually intake ports in the heads that are smaller than the ports in the manifold will hurt power, so that port matching mod is definitely not what create the power. I'm guessing there's something to gain if the manifold either had smaller ports or the heads were enlarged.
I have used both normal Victor and Super Victor. For a 195 head the 2925 is too big and will A, not match the heads, B Lose velocity. For those heads a Bowtie Victor is the go. Fuellies etc an original Victor I have tried a Weiand, did not work for me. I too was told they were better than the Victor,, not on a 23 deg Dart2 head engine. It was 200 rpm down on the straights and seemed lazier off the corners so I went back to my own intake My next step up was 225 Victor race heads and that needed [for fit if nothing else] a 2925. Though had NO bottom end. Nothing under 3000rpm. But 3500 - 7500 kept you awake. Also a original Victor will squeeze under most bonnets with a aircleaner. The Victor of all versions seem to like a 2" spacer. Even the 2925. We did try it both ways with or without and it was a bit better with the spacer. Normal Victor is considerably better with a 2" spacer but you will need a bonnet scoop of some sort. I used the same spacer on the Weiand as I did on the Bowtie Victor. Others I know have tried even more spacer on 195cc heads but power falls off over 2" it seems. I did try a 1" but it felt sharper with the 2".
Have you ever done a simalar test with a bbc? I am going to be building a bbc with twin gt45 for my tow/play rig. I know "Who builds a crew cab dually twin turbo bbc?". Im a nutbag who mixes work with pleasure. Lol
Them old Vic Jrs are pretty good units. Have a few myself. I believe the old Vic Jrs are better than the newer versions. The old ones appear to be a better casting just looking at them.
Man it's allergy season flipping hate it I'm allergic to everything and live in the backwoods of eastern ky... I know that feeling but I also run a 424 ci sbc with a vic Jr. Solid roller 13.64 comp. And .713 .688 crower. Does what I want smoke tires till it hits limiter @7600 run
Curious to see results on those 215 heads, and how much of a difference the intakes would have on those heads. Would they manifolds perform the same on larger heads? Or will some of the lower performing intakes on the 195’s do better than the better performing intakes because of the larger head size?
Same here! I run Dart Iron Eagle 215’s which take a 1206 gasket. I’m curious as to the effect of a stock non gasket matched Vic Jr on 215’s vs a gasket matched Vic Jr vs a Super Victor.
I have an old Edelbrock Scorpion intake that looks almost identical to this VicJr. Was this Scorpion intake the predecessor to the Vic Jr ? I remember back in the mid-80's these things were always on the fastest small blocks in town. I am now faced with the choice of using my Scorpion intake or a Performer RPM dual plane on my latest 355 build with AFR Enforcer 195's and 230/234@ .050 Trick Flow hyd roller cam.
The heads have a smaller port gasket opening than the manifold were all the manifolds that way?. Not experienced with this stuff but seems like that would cause turbulence. Victor Jr is a great choice for a similiar combination. Thanks
I'm kind of surprised with the port entry angles of the 2975 that it made better #'s than the 2925 but,....Dyno's don't lie! I have an early 2975 with the ribbed valley and pan evacuation hole in the valley and I was told years ago the early 2975 is worth 7-9HP over the later 2975 intakes. Maybe I should send it off to you but, it's 1/2 way through a gasket match and I don't have my porting bench set-up right now.
Team G 7530 vs Edelbrock RPM AG low single digit difference . The Volumetric efficiency of the EDE Rpm AG Takes a quick downward trend after peak torque . VE drops fast after peak hp . Does this mean a Ede Rpm AG has found the limit on a 400cuin modest heads 250+cam ??? Be interesting to see the TQ HP curve 3000 ---- 5000rpm
The V Jr made the same hp at 5400 that the T G made at 6400. Let that sink in. Also conventional wisdom says the “port mis-matching” is the exact opposite of what you would want which is the manifold’s opening to be slightly smaller than the head opening aka self streamlining.
I remember one guy complaining that single planes were no good. He had a 350 a second gen Camaro with a Team G, stock cam and converter. He complained it was a dog and swapped it out for a performer.
I have a boat that never runs above 3500 RPM and torque is all that matters in a boat. Is this still the winner for my application? Does it have the highest low end toque, the results paper doesn't show under 4500 RPM. I've found the peanut port heads work great for my application but no idea what intake manifold to run.
That is crazy that the victor jr dominated the field but like you said it could be the head and once you put the bigger better flowing heads on them the victor jr would probably do something different and it's weird the team g that is the closest to the victor jr did terrible now that is just all kinds of crazy it's just about what the engine wants I guess. But I can't wait for the head change
I wish you had a Dart single plane to test against the Vic Jr. I have both manifolds and was wondering which one would work better with a 406 with Dart pro 1 230 heads (7500 rpm)
Great channel! Any thoughts on the Holley Dominator or C3BX? I have one of each which I have not yet tried on my street 327, 2.02, Engle hyd. 267/.460 4-speed I imagine the the dual plane would be better on the street. Thanks
I dont know, a friend built a 327 and the Team G definitely made the better power. They are still available new to my knowledge, there is a 7532 version of it, which is just 1" taller, you can achieve the same thing with a spacer.
just tried to look up that manifold cant find it anywhere one thing it does have is its on partially a air gap the runners could be warmer then a full air gap
Ok, so, the Vic Jr was port matched to a 1205 gasket and made the most power?! What if you port match the team g to a 1205 gasket? What will happen then? As a porter, I know that goes against everything you do, but seems like when smaller head ports and larger intake ports makes more power? Very interesting!
Too small a head for the camshaft. Suggestion...Build a 750 hp 23 sbc and test manifolds, SV2 will undoubtedly be the winner. I can't imagine how any of this is useful. Unless, you're looking for an intake that'll make the best power in a poor combination environment. Even then, I'm not sure any of the info would cross over. The camshaft in your mule is almost the same as the camshaft I run in my 750hp 23 sbc 427 with Brodix T1 233.
Eric - How old is the Victor Jr that was tested? I posted the results on a Chevelle forum and there is a gentleman claiming the manifold that won is from the early 80's and the new ones are completely different. Thanks!
So what about the magazine test a few yrs back when they did this and the Professional Products Hurricane beat the Victor Jr..I would assume that they tested straight out of the box.I think testing should be kept simple for every day people not for people with racing back grounds and a dyno in the garage or shed.
