It’s certainly different to other fence systems and can be fun to work with, but there are a few rather big negatives: 1) it takes away almost 4” or 100mm of Your rip capacity as that is taken by the support bridge and the clamp; 2) the aluminium extrusions are just not stiff enough and precise enough to counter the large mechanical advantage of the clamp (pivot point) being so far way from the point of pressure applied. Your precision at center point is at the expense of the fence being perfectly paralel to the blade during a rip cut. With time, the aluminium bracket will stretch from the forces involved and wear out. So it needs to be clamped at the front and back of the fence too, every time, making sure it’s paralel every time. 3) it’s expensive compared to other similarly precise DRO solutions that don’t suffer from the above drawbacks. 4) having the arm extend out means You can’t use the extension table as a router table which is a bigger drawback still for hobbbyist workshops that this fence is aimed at. 5) removing the fence for cross cutting longer pieces and then installing it back in place is a pain. I do this all the time on my sliding table saw and as a result have no need for a dedicated miter saw station, saves a whole lot of space in a smaller shop and gives better accuracy compared to a miter saw. 6) the measurement window is a long way away from the blade and the fence. Having to constantly move over 50” and back to the fence to avoid paralax errors before locking the fence down is just poor design when copared to the dial being right at the front of the fence. Just some considerations that rarely ever get mentioned by all the incra fence fans.
After watching the video advert i was still skeptical. But when i finally downloaded the plans ru-vid.comUgkxZF0EMnrujZvqHhGkxiz559uIABJWR9TG i was very impressed. The whole plan was just as you said in the video. Thank you very much. I now have a large and valuable collection for my woodworks. This is great!
It's a great fence. I have the Incra router fence and I absolutely love it. But the big drawback for the table saw version is the insane amount of clearance you need on the right hand side of the table saw to be able to use it. I simply do not have enough room in my small basement shop for that. Were it not for that I would have purchased one years ago.
I’ve had mine for almost 6 years. Put it on the same Rigid saw as you had, and put it on my Saw Stop last summer. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. My eyesight isn’t great, and knowing I can get close, and it will be spot on is very important for me. The placement of my saw was dictated by the length of the arm. It’s not a particular hindrance but it is, as you stated, something that must be dealt with. Thumbs up on the video. It is a great piece of gear.
`I got mine in July, ordered it around Christmas 21'. They had a sale on. Installed it last week and fine tuned it last Monday. I had a couple of jobs to finish up first before I could get to the fine turning. I have no complaints! After using the standard Biesemier fence that came on my Grizzly G0691 for years (3+) and having a few gripes about it, I broke down and bought the Incra 52" model.WHAT A DIFFERENCE! In the little time I've spent using the Incra, my set-up time is cut in thirds if not faster. There's no more tap a little this way oops, no the other way! Well worth the $$$ spent! It does take some time to get it, but like Brent and myself says, "the best fence on the market"!
I have watched many videos about the Incra TS LS fence system over the bas month, but your video is the one that did me in. It is complete and to the point and showed us all the accurate and amazing things the system can do. I ordered my TS LS 32" this morning along with 2 more sets of brackets and the legs. You made me do this, thank you.
Brent, I commented 2 days ago that I purchased the TS LS Incra system after watching your video. I am on here today to let you know that Incremental emailed me today with notice that Incra shipped my order today with an ETA of 28 December 2022. So excited. It looks like the supply chain and materials shortages have been resolved. For those that were waiting, the wait is over. Thanks again for such a through demonstration of the Incra TSLS system. Looking forward to using my own. I am holding up construction on a pantry so I can use my new Incra fence. :)
@@bentswoodworking I was also willing to wait for the TSLS as you indicated in your video it took several months to receive the product and I was willing to do the same, anyway its on the the way and thanks again for this video and the other video you produced describing the Sawstop install.
Also had a love/hate relationship with an Incra TS fence I tried out for a year in my small cabinet shop. I love Incra, and use an LS positioner system on my router table setup. The TS was extremely stable, accurate, repeatable, and the uncanny micro adjuster is amazing. This was mounted on my10 inch Unisaw. I ultimately sold it simply because it was always in my way, hogging up the right side table, and really messing up the workflow. I went with the Very Super Cool Tools 48 inch fence setup, and I absolutely love it. It’s out of my way in seconds, and I gained repeatability and micro adjust capability with the addition of the Woodpeckers Flip Rip system. For my work, that works best for me ,YMMV. But I will say, if you have a lot of room, and it works for you, it’s still a really remarkable piece of kit. Great video Jason! Thanks
I couldn't agree more. I have the Incra fence on my table saw/router table as well. I have had it for well over 20 years and the quality is unsurpassed. And the documentation/idea book that came with it is a permanent part of my shop. I look forward to more on this subject from you.
I have had the 52” Ultra system since around 2005 (I believe it was less than half of the short version today.) or the popular Miter-1000 by Incra era. I can’t believe they still use the same exact (‘cheap ‘) fence (itself) many years later. Back then, when I added Jessem router lift in the extension table, I looked at Incra’s (split) fence and it did not come close to what Joint-Tech had on their Smart-Fence (3”x3”). I bought one of those barely used with some accessories like the feather board and push fixture (all made by Joint-Tech), installed it in the Incra Ultra and never looked back.
Great video. I totally agree. My Incra table saw fence is the best part of my shop setup. So much that I upgraded to Incra's "The Works" LS router table. Haven't made any sawdust with it yet (still assembling it), but I'm anxious to start making routs and joints with it.
I am glad that you like it but I would buy a lot of wood with the cash saved. I have a SawStop table saw. I use the Wixey DRO and replaced the face of the fence with a $20 piece of extruded aluminum. I get 100% repeatability and can switch between metric & imperial with the push of a button.
On my second TSLS Wonderfence combo. First was stolen. Both are on house made tables with Jobsite saws dropped into middle and router left of blade. Finally planning to get a proper table saw and am glad to hear someone has put this on SawStop. Waiting to see your install video.
Amen brother! I bought mine for an old Craftsman saw that I was given with no fence and was in need.. I ordered it in Feb.of 2020 (pre pandemic crazyness but just barely!) and received it in late August (smack dab in the middle of crazyness!), which considering that point in time in which I bought it was pretty good I thought. It is as advertised and more! Because my saw is such old tech I also install the Jessem (?) guides and I love my old saw!
Really glad that you uploaded this video as I've been looking at purchasing this for the past few months and honestly didn't even think about the over flow of the arm and the area needed, that said I know now what my first job will be in the morning when I go into the workshop 😳. As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
@@bentswoodworking extremely but the price upset me, only because over here in the UK the cheapest version of this is over £800 ( 946 dollars) or there abouts. As you can see it ain't cheap but honestly if I have the room I'm definitely going to be ordering one!!!
I wouldn't know what to do without my TS-LS, same with the router set-up. Mine have been flawless for nearly a decade. Looking forward to the install video.
I would buy one, but I would have to cut a hole in the wall that separates my shop from my garage …. And I’d have to also roll down the back window on my car.
I had it for awhile, struggled getting the fence perfectly 90 degrees to the table. Spoke to incra and they had suggested using playing cards as shims, was quite the ordeal.
I have this fence and that is the one thing I just could not get over. How a company offering such a "high tech" fence, can't come up with a better way to make that adjustment is beyond me.
I bought a Incra fence over 20 years ago and mounted it to a Craftsman contractor saw with attached router table. It's still going strong. I have NEVER had a kickback due the precision. I would not trade mine for anything. My wife knows that when this setup shoots craps we have to include a new Incra system to the cost calculation.
So I have been a serious, and in business furniture builder, since 1983. I work out of a 3 car garage and none of my equipment has a permanent location. Things need to move around so my DC is a 30', 4" hose that will go anywhere in my shop. I only need one hose because I only use one machine at a time. ;!) On to the Incra TS fence. If room was no object, I would get one. I only use 50" rip capacity saws, my current SS ICS is 50"+ capacity. I was hoping that you would have actually demonstrated using the fence. What I think your viewers need to realize is that the Incra is nice but....... I very often, multiple times during a build remove my rip fence. Where do you put your Incra when not in use? And for that matter if you have 50" rip capacity and need a larger space for the fence? Do you have to secure the front and back ends of the fence to prevent wobble? It has always seemed to me that the Incra is very nice but in all seriousness I can easily set my SS fence to within 1/128. This is not precision metal working. LOL. I truely believe that if the Incra fence had the lock and the threaded rod for minute asdustments built into the front rail this thing would be a much better design. As usual, Good Video!
They must have worked through their supply issues. I ordered mine yesterday and received it this afternoon. Thanks for the video, really looking forward to getting it installed.
Ordered mine on 8-10-2022 and got it this morning 10-5- 2022 08:29. I was concerned about ordering it and receiving it before i move so, i bought it in stages starting with the rails which was available in a reasonable time at the time compared to a full system. The timing was so bad because i had other things i needed to buy as well. My Saw Stop had rust damage from sitting in an uncontrolled humidity level storage facility for a year. I bought the Miter 5000 and did as much as i could with it including various temporary fences for my projects. Anyway, heading to the garage to make the first test cut .
I am a massive Incra lover and will mention two important details he forgot to talk about. I owned the TS-LS full joinery system with the 52in capacity. With that system you have the capacity to fit a full sheet of plywood between the fence and blade. This brings up the first detail. The incra fence has a locking knob on each end to lock each end of the fence to each fence rail. This guarantees the strength needed for accuracy when doing something like ripping a full sheet of plywood or working with large pieces of heavy hardwood or composites. Next the "saddle" that the clamping end of the fence passes through has knobs mounting it to the fence rails so it is movable. I used the 92in. rails with my router table on the left end of my saw. This way you can loosen those knobs and slide the entire system closer to the router table so as to make all the adjustment closer to the router bit. Also as a side note the joinery level system has a two piece extruded router fence that slides and locks right into the face of the table saw fence, the outfeed piece has a dust collection fitting. The TS-LS-JS is kinda expensive at a little over $1000 but is worth every penny. I used mine for 15+ years doing high end custom cabinetry and never had to replace a single part, other than the Teflon expansion washers in one of my Incra miter squares. The only complaint I've ever had is the same as his, the dedicated floor space needed to the right of the saw.
Very nice fence system. a lot of overkill IMO. I'll stick with my Saw Stop fence. I've never had an issue with the bump method. Large production equipment does not have this level of precision, but the guy in his garage needs it...LOL I do not make anything that needs "micro adjust". Nice review though. hope they gave you a good deal on it.
Great video, thanks! I wasn't happy with the kiss method for zeroing the blade considering that many blades aren't dead flat or at a perfect 90 degrees. I contacted Incra and their customer service is excellent by the way and they suggested to make 3 different rip cuts and then measure them with digital calipers. If they were all 0.15mm out from where the ruler indicates for example then micro adjust 0.15mm in the appropriate direction. Move the metal ruler to its exact location and you're done. I also contemplated buying the support legs but simply used the legs that came with the sawstop and attached them to the rails.
Downside is that you need 3 or 4 feet more to the right of your saw.Essentially requiring you to have your saw with 8 feet to the right of the blade if you use the full rip capacity.
That is a lot of money for a manual fence. I made my digital fence for a fraction of this (enter the desired position, to 0.01mm, and it goes there). It also works on my router table, where the height is also digitally set. I plan to modify my table saw to digital height and tilt to complete the conversion.
This is the most honest and precise Incra video I've seen. Everything you said is 100% true. I purchased an Incra router table several years ago and 2 years ago I called Mark at Incra to purchase an Incra router lift (Mast-R-Lift). Incra tools just work period. No playing around with them they just work. Set zero and go. The only reason I do not have the table saw fence is that the right side of my saw is against the wall. My shop is long and narrow. So I have no other place to put the saw. I also have their miter gauge and stop and fence and stops on my drill fence.
@@bentswoodworking I saw that in the video (watched the whole thing!). Just wired mine to 240v last night. Game changer. Fence is trash. Been looking to upgrade for a while...until I can get a sawstop
The Incra Table Saw fence is very similar to the Join-Tec joinery fence that I bought in 2000, sold 2 years ago. I used it for the table saw and router table extension. Join-Tec went out of business some time ago. My issue was that sliding the fence base along the rail and clamping down would rarely produce a fence parallel to the saw blade. This was not an issue when using the router. It was design weakness in how the fence system slid and grabbed the rail. I was wondering if you can describe any problem with the Incra TS-LS fence staying parallel to the blade when repositioning the fence base. Thanks
When I ordered my ICS last year, I actually considered ordering it with out a fence and rails and table (you can order it that way and save about $800-$1000) so I could order an Incra Fence. But even 12 months ago, Incra had 7-8 month back log and I didn't want to be with out a fence for my shiny new Saw so I stuck with the SawStop fence system. Sort of regretting that now of course. Maybe Ill bite the bullet and order the Incra
Do you have a good safe place to store the Incra fence when you remove it from the TS? That has always been a deal killer for me. Removal of the SS fence is easy and will go just about anywhere. Removing the Incra, especially the 50" model, might be a 2 person manouver.
I bought my Sawstop without a fence and rails because I was going to install the TS/LS fence. I actually ordered the fence before I got the saw and when the fence came in, then I ordered the saw.
I had the competition version of this, the Saw Train. It worked in a similar fashion, what I did not like about it was the fact that the ends of the fence just above the rails, is not attached to anything. So if I was pushing toward the fence, the fence would flex. Also, how do you true-up the fence to make it parallel to the saw blade. I'm there is a way, I just didn't see you cover that.
I've got the same as Jason and its quite easy and mentioned in the instructions. Place a tight fitting runner in the nearest slot, then move the fence so its completely against the runner and then tighten the carriage. This of coarse assumes the blade is parallel to the slots
Hi Bent, great video. Question - What is that Router Bit centering scale for and how does it come in handy. Maybe you can discuss that in a future video. Many Thanks..
You know how everyone makes those jigs that ride the t-fences? Would love to see how you make those similar sleds and jigs for a fence like this. Thanks for the great video!
This is such an awesome fence! I have the 52” model and I love it! I did however replace the exact fence with a longer more beefier extruded aluminum fence. I have this attached to my RIDGID TS3650 Hybrid table saw. 👍🏾
Bought my LS back in 2005 when I had a PowerMatic66. Bought a SawStop in 2009 and moving the LS to it was a breeze. I had originally bought the imperial version, but 'went metric' in my shop about ten years ago and got the metric lead screw conversion kit. I, too, am an engineer and can easily add/subtract fractions in my head, but why ?? I was a EE and so was 'raised' metric, and my real question to myself was why did I stay 'imperial' for so long in my shop?
@@bentswoodworking Thanks for getting back to me !! Hey I'm really sorry to hear that you contracted the China virus. I hope that you are feeling better and take care, I want to continue watching your videos ! Ha !!
BTW I have been using this fence for some time and absolutely love it 😊. I glad to know that I can add back my phenolic section. Looking forward to the next install installation
I have a 52” SS and can see the benefit for accuracy and repeatability mentioned. I’m wondering if you can get 48” clearance to the right of the blade, which I need on occasion when working with sheet goods? I installed a Wixey DRO on my saw to alleviate accuracy and repeatability concerns. So far it has worked well, but I need to think a bit on the dado stack use. Thanks for all of your videos…they have been extremely helpful!
I have the long rails for this system and I've been using it since 2008 that way so it can go in two configurations for long cuts, and I also use it for an attached router table. My criticism is actually pretty minor but I'd have to say that with all of that movability, I don't care for the way the t handles and cross frame just merely index to a bolt because of my router table configuration and having to pick it up off of the frame every time I need to index it to that tool. I wish they would have taken a cue for how they developed the wonder fence and at least had the lip and allan screws so you could just roll it down the t-track channel. Spring loaded pins into positioned holes would have been a much better, and much more versatile option. It's very painful. I also think they missed a serious design opportunity by not putting a better roller/glide surface under that frame lip. It actually would have simplified the design instead of that funky bracket they're using to support the main beam. For maintenance, I've had to replace the packing around the lead screw twice because of the play introduced from repeated cutting forces pushing on a center point in the positioner. To fix that, I've stopped cutting without the fence locked down to the rail, which is also an annoyance. Other people don't seem to have that complaint. Maybe I beat on it a little more than I should, but if I'm going to spend that much on a fence, it should be able to take that beating. Never had that issue with Beisemeyer's, but never had the accuracy either. Maybe it's a tradeoff I don't really need for the woodworking I do.
I've got the same setup with a SawStop PCS and Incra Fence. Mine is the 52" version, but if I had it to do over I'd only get the 32". The 52" just has 92" rails instead of the standard 72", so to get that 'extra' rip capacity you have to move the LS-32 carriage back on the rail. Not a big deal...you just set up your positive stops in both directions and you can move it to either position in less than a minute. My issue is that you could accomplish the same with the 72" rails...just don't install them to the right of your blade. I never put anything other than a feather board on the right side of the blade, and I can't think of a single reason Incra made the rails longer other than for aesthetic. I also have the JessEm guides. My advice is DO NOT but the mounting kit they sell for Incra fences. It's a crap design and doesn't give you the 3/4" setback to allow the guides to rest on top of the fence and out of the way. Don Bullock did a video last year where he overcame those design limitations by mounting his stock guides to a piece of hardwood. Just search 'Don Bullock JessEm guides" and it'll be the top hit. I tossed out my mounting kit a few months ago. Don's method is FAR superior...so much so that I think JessEm should stop making the Incra kit and just point folks to Don's video. Other than those two 'minor' issues, I absolutely love everything about my Incra fence systems. I also have the exact same Incra router table top and lift combo that I'm using with the Wonder Fence system. I love my Incra fence on the table saw, but this system really shines at the router table. The precision is just amazing. All the joinery options you can batch out are unparalleled with any other system on the market today.
I’ve had nothing but trouble with mine. Everytime I lock it down it moves out of alignment. When pull the handle partially up (micro adjust) it moves. Then when u pull it again to lock in place it moves again. Also the little locking mechanisms at front & back of table will catch & bind whenever I move the fence. And no matter how many time I try to add shims, the fence is never 90 deg to the table. I use it but it’s almost as bad as the ridged fence it replaced. So tired of it I’m now gonna try & build my own fence system. Lots of plans online. They look so much simpler & less complicated. Too many moving parts on this thing to put it out of alignment. Plus. It takes up too much space across the table top.
I guess you really have to decide whether or not you are going to work full time in either metric or imperial. I've been migrating over to metric more and more so that would probably make more sense. Also, what about taking it off and putting it back on? Do you find the need to do that ever?
***jason barges into his shop at midnight and yells at his tablesaw “ARE YALL KISSING IN HERE?!? STOP IT…YOU HEAR ME?!” He storms off back in the house as Incra giggles back at tablesaw. “I heard them doing it again, Honey, and I’m sick and tired of them doing it all the time!” Nicole just nods her head, and smirks as Jason goes upstairs to resume his nightly mediation routine above the garage
I'll install a French drain on my patio to get all the standing water out of there and store my motorcycle out there under a cover. This will give me the room for the positioner.
Incra; the gear you want to love but, secretly hate. At least in my case and I have 2. Why? Well, they foster "machine thinking" i.e. the machine is where the accuracy comes from, not the worker which starts out the dependency on all the gear and glitz instead of honing skills. Fragile and sensitive; yes they are very accurate as long as you don't bump or breathe hard on them. Flexing; every Incra owner can tell you a story of how they screwed up a project because of flex in the system. "Like wearing a Rolex in a coal mine"; as others have pointed out, you'll likely never see one in a production or professional shop because they would be trash in a couple of weeks.
I’ve had this fence for 3 years. It’s a love hate relationship. Doing long crosscuts is challenging because the fence doesn’t come off easy. It’s also challenging to make jigs for the fence. One example would be a spline jig. The repeatability is so helpful.
I have the Saw-Train system and will totally agree it is a love hate relationship. Also when you try to push it out of the way the beam is now sticking 2 ft off of the table into your walk way. Also give up any idea of placing it to the left of the blade.
Agreed. Mine is getting turned into a permanent router table application. I think for the type of work I do a T-glide is a better choice. Saw stop is on order, can’t wait.
Jackwagon - I used the spline jig from Kings fine woodworking. I have this fence by the way and I always thought that same thing about removing it. I finally removed it the other day to make cut....piece of cake. Also, the micro adjust is just plain awesome. I found that out by needing to make some runners for a sled. My only real complaint and I mentioned it above is the way you set the fence to 90. A piece of friggen tape! As Brandon would say to Incra.... "Come on man!"
16:41… could probably re engineer the fence to mimic deawaits jobsite saws style… put the 1/32 all thread on the rail that mounts to the saw… the the mechanism that clamps it down in a normal spot for a saw fence. Problem solved for the extra space to the right. You could also then use the fence on the backside for your router table set up (which how I like mine set up). For real though… incra or someone should do this.
Great fence but I would have to say that locking in 32nd increments is a flaw and not a feature. As someone who has done various types of woodworking for a couple of decades this fence would be a liability. 32nds is too large of an increment for fine woodworking. I need to be able to micro adjust the fence. We’re talking .004-.05 inch adjustments. Otherwise this fence wouldn’t be useful.
It's been years since I worked in the field and i have to tell you, I would never want this on or near my saw. I'm at 6:47 in this video. the fact that the extension arm sticks out the side keeps the saw off the wall and it's a BS mishap waiting to happen. The fact that I cannot lock the saw in between 1/32" increments is bad news with all the fine tuning to get perfectly fitting joints I really limits the saw. repeatability is not an issue when you do this work day in and out, you learn to cut everything at once. On the rear occasion once every three years if it does,, you have the skill and ability to get it back where it was..it's not that important of a feature. I'll take a biesmyer style fence all day
I just ordered my PCS 3hp and have been thinking about the incra fence . I have been doing some reading and saw some Sawstop owners have had false break trips due to the incra fence . Has anyone had issues with that ?
Had the Incra for years. Unfortunately, the build quality is lacking for precision work. The original and replacement fences I bought from them all had concave faces making it nearly impossible to cut small pieces square. If you mount an auxiliary fence to combat this you risk deforming the Incra fence or the auxiliary material. The rail locks/hooks malfunction somewhat after light use, and getting the slide carriage to travel parallel to the table and not dip (changing the angle of the face of the fence) is a nightmare. If they could find a way incorporate their LS-Positioner with the SawStop t-glide they would dominate the market.
I did the exact opposite of you, I ordered the metric version to try and make the switch and it just got too complicated with the router side of things. You lose most of the templates and I have found that metric bits are not easy to come by here in the states. One thing about the metric version that is contrary to what you said is that the metric version locks in half a millimeter increments. Mine will NOT lock at half millimeters. I can lock it halfway, but it won’t let me fully lock it into place. Bought the standard version and now I’m unhappy with their 1/32nd ruler. Not sure why they did that. Did you know? I don’t know anyone that says 5 and 8/32”
$5-$600 for an accurate fence? That is well worth it if you see the cost of the additional expenses you would pay for a Harvey or a saw stop fence it adds about 1200 to even $1800.
One more con for me: it isn't reversible. As you can extend the table saw with a router table set, and in spite of the INCRA can be use with the router, the same INCRA fense can't be used alternatively for the saw and the router
I own the older version. Trying to keep the saw fence parallel to the blade is the worst part of the fence. Too much burned lumber on cuts. It is a great saw for accuracy but for ripping? not so much.
A 32nd of an inch isn’t accurate enough unless you can override that. I often cut to 1/64 (or finer) for certain projects and especially not knowing whether it’s going to lock over my measurements or under is not confidence inspiring.
I've had this fence on a delta contractor saw for probably 5 years, the part you talk about @3:39 doesn't work any more and if you try to close the latch it just feels terrible and you have to bump either the wheel or the fence to get it to close.
Supply and demand, that's sort of true. The reason is demand (at the price) is so low, manufacturer can't warehouse supply. The economic model only works for manufactur-to-order.
