Quick clarification: I'm aware some other moves (Rest, fully charged Flare Blade, Bucket with the right ammo, etc.) can do the same/more damage than Skewer. "The most damage in a single move" was supposed to imply that none of these were applicable, but "the most damage in a single moment" may have conveyed that better. My mistake, thanks for watching in any case! List of links: Beefy Smash Doods' video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9nT2VOLwrqk.html Core-A Gaming's video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ap369ES-6Xw.html Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock
Actually, it was Joker from The Dark Knight who said that. Alpharad adapted that quote. Alpharad actually quotes a whole lot of stuff that goes over people's heads, my own included.
Beginning of video: Let’s see which big move is the most useful End of video: Will ganondorf ever have is own identity, being part of one of the most influential games in history?
Answer: No. Reworking characters seems to not exist in the eyes of smash devs. Although maybe if the game is rebooted for the next smash game, then the characters might have changed movesets
@@waluigiisthebest2802 If there was ever a time to rework the old characters, it's in the next game after Ultimate. Assuming that Sakurai actually retires from Smash development and that the next game almost definitely can't bring everyone back while also adding newcomers, it seems like the most sensible option for Smash 6 is to essentially reboot the franchise.
If big risky moves become better than online requires less skill to play due to reaction times being abhorrent. If we have the 10 frames of human reaction + 10 frames of internet lag + 10 frames of buffer things can easily compile out of control.
Picture this: you’re playing a game with your friends and there’s 8 players, so you spawn on the left of magicant. You are playing wolf, a character that has a horrible recovery with his up b. You and your friends just unlocked Ridley. Unlike your friends, you are completely aware of how every fighter in the game plays. By some amount of luck, you spawn right next to the Ridley player. Because they don’t know how to play the game, they know that almost every fighter’s down b is the odd on out, so that’s what they input. And guess what? In less than the first 5 seconds of the game, there’s 60 percent on wolf, a confused you, and screams from your friends as they’ve never seen Ridley do anything. Based on a true story.
When I firstly played the game I SD with Mario on a Battlefield believing j was the Pikachu on the right.........I was on the left of a 1v1 I was such a moron
If you time your inputs just right you can catch the most common starting actions players will take, within the first second of a match on either battle field or small battle field, with skewer. And let me tell you it is a real demoralizing way to start things off for your opponent
All of these big moves are more mind games and statements than sure fire kill options. It’s an easy way to state “I know what you’re going to do before you do it.”
@@sleepy_b0i Actually you’re not. Eventually, it comes down to muscle memory about match ups & spacing. The victor’s dream is to have all of this in grained, so they read everything, and punish with no risk, all reward.
I see two possible ways to fix Ganondorf: 1. Change Ganondorf and add Black Shadow to take his old move set 2. Add Ganon as a separate character, based around the trident and whatnot
Completely agree. Make black shadow an echo captain falcon and then Ganondorf will have his own unique moveset. This will appease the vast majority of people calling for a moveset overhaul, as well as keeping the original Ganondorf moveset preserved
yeah as a kid playing brawl i never shielded or grabbed. I just used meta knight, like everyone else Edit: by the way, I didn't know he was good I just thought "he cool and sword have and also he fly"
Smash & LoZ Fans: Ganondorf's Warlock Punch isn't canon. Nintendo please change. Nintendo: "Not Canon?? Not Ganon?? Feast your eyes on This!" *reveals True Ganon in a new LoZ game who uses Warlock Punch*
The way I view it, Ganon has evolved into an _Interpretation_ of the canon Ganon. I always really enjoyed the wizard and magic affiliation in Ganons moveset in smash. It counters the stereotypical picture of an old/ physically weak and frail magic user so perfectly. Especially in Ultimate. He uses magic, his sword and his own body in attacks and it makes for a wonderfully diverse and interesting moveset that might not be true to the story, but paints the right picture. I personally really enjoy him this way.
Honestly I think it fits the canon anyway, especially the way it's said in the video. Ganon is described as a Glory or Death chracter which fits pretty much all of his iteration concidering that he pulls the boldest moves ever, taking on a whole kingdom, sometimes even directly and even alone, and either succedes or dies trying. But he always leaves a mark in the world. This is exactly who Ganon is in smash : A heavy hiter with ambitions as big as his sword who's here to leave an ever lasting impression on everyone.
For replacing warlock punch, I'd choose the light orb, but it would be able to be charged by holding the button, and if you keep holding the button it'll become the warlock punch, similar to Diddy's peanut gun.
I think the best application of this would be three levels of charge. First would be a quick reflector - not as active or long-lasting as Nayru’s Love (Zelda neutral B), more like Mario’s cape. Holding it a little more would produce the light orb - which could turn into the Dead Man’s Volley with any character with a reflector, since all he’d have to do to reflect it would be tap the B button again. And then, holding it past the light orb’s level would result in the warlock punch.
What I think would be cool would be if, during his neutral special (or heck, even as a replacement for his *down* special), Ganondorf would punch the ground and create a shockwave sort of effect (similar to Ike’s NS but to a much lighter degree). If you’re in the air, you’d end up diving downward and punching the ground, creating a much bigger effect depending on how high you were previously. This sort of move would be in reference to his Ocarina of Time boss fight, where he would dive and strike the ground just before the fight would start, causing tiles to fall and setting up the arena’s layout for the ensuing tennis match. I believe Ganondorf would also do this when you jumped onto his platform when he isn’t incapacitated.
Wolfasaurus Rex People who say this don’t know a thing about Black Shadow. They don’t actually care about him getting in, they just need someone to shove Ganon’s moveset onto. Don’t even see the point, he’s finally great in this game, plays nothing like Falcon, hardly looks the same as him in animations these days, and there’s plenty of other characters with misrepresented movesets that don’t have their fans begging for a change as much as Ganondorf fans. And don’t give me that Hyryle Warriors excuse, you just can’t compare the two games so equally, especially since everyone was made ridiculous and over the top in that game.
We don’t warlock punch for the reward It’s for the DISRESPECT Edit: come back two months later and never expected to get so many likes. Thank you guys!
Fun fact: when Luigi’s down taunt hits a grounded opponent, the effect just before they get airborne is pretty much the same as hitting the ground and bouncing up, so it always spikes, just impossible to tech Because reaction time is so slow for a human to do it
The one situation in which I most often find myself landing skewer is in punishing an opponent's ledge option. If Ridley is standing far enough from the ledge that his plasma breath will hit a hanging opponent, then he can punish neutral getup on a read and ledge attack on reaction with skewer. Combine this with his massive Nair covering drop+ double jump and ledge jump and it becomes much more likely that you'll land it, even if it is still risky and overall unlikely
I agree to giving Ganondorf's moveset to Black Shadow, but not Blood Falcon. If Blood Falcon were ever introduced he would be best represented as an exaggerated version of Captain Falcon. Even faster, even nastier, even stronger, but far more slippery and even harder to use. After all, if Captain Falcon was based on F-zero and the blue falcon, than Blood Falcon should be based on the Blood Hawk. Black Shadow makes sense though. The Black Bull is fast as hell, tough as nails, and hits like a truck because of its weight, but suffers because of its acceleration. Black Shadow with Ganon's moveset would fit his machine pretty well. It's hard to get to first place, but if you're close to Black Shadow, get the fuck out of there. And when he does get first place, good luck catching him.
Funny story here: I was playing Ultimate as Ganondorf and got a challenger aproaching. It was Toon Link, and I literally killed him in 2 warlock punches. He didn't even land a hit, and it was hilarious.
Am I the only one that noticed when you said "Do absolutely nothing." for Ridleys Skewer that you used Luigi? If it was intended, it's a really nice touch.
Gotta be honest Jet hammer is really nice. I mean it has armor, hits the ledge, covers entire platforms, has some surprisingly good range, and has a fear factor to it that you don't see in many moves... It's a far cry from sm4sh where it was a literal joke along with half of D3's kit.
I hit a lot of people on the ledge on 3DS but asides from that yeah you're not getting too much out of it except with careless people or just whoever don't knows that. The super armor and shield breaker capabilities really came in handy.
Sometimes I don't even charge it and it still kills and being able to move around has allowed me to microspace against some attacks to make them whiff and then I go for big punish.
Not only was this in project M, if you used his reflection mid-air GANON COULD FLOAT. They compensate by replacing his sword taunt with a move similar to his forward smash in Ultimate, and it basically worked the same as warlock punch.
Damn, that intro transition was flawless! Btw, the part about source material issues was very interesting. I do think the Warlock punch could be replaced, with something more fitting. (Also: Enter the Gungeon and Indivisible-music are always a win)
Pig Ganon's abilities are much different from Ganondorf. Besides, giving Ganon his magic and ability to float would be much easier to balance on a large humanoid who is heavy or on the low end of super heavy than a gigantic pig demon that would probably be up there with Dedede and DK as one of the heaviest characters in the game.
If we can have 3 forms of link, why can’t we have another ganon, who is literally known for being reincarnated through time, to represent a different form oh him in a different gane
There's this one mod for brawl (can't remember the name) where there were 2 different ganon's, regular slow Ganon and mage ganon, where he completely represented his identity, he had his thing from OoT where he charged up light spheres and sent them at you, he actually wields magic, he can float in the air, he has a teleport with active input and he just was a much better ganon than what sakurai did (not trying to slam sakurai, just saying), i really wish this ganon could have been in an actual smash game
"is there anyone else to close the video out with?" Mii brawler, g&w, the pk bois, byleth, cloud with limit, and hero with hatchet man: *am I a joke to you?*
The power of "big moves" is mindgames. Scaring/surprising your opponent because they never expect you to do them. It can throw them off their game especially if they hit, because now they're aware of how easy it is for you to read them. At least, that's how I use them. But I'm no "pro smasher" so eh.
Actually with some characters, Kirby’s hammer can hit below the ledge. As you showed with Luigi’s down taunt, maybe Ganondorf is not the best character to show for hitboxes.
Goofy ah side smash that hits behind him, stupid Dair that spikes up to his back, devilish up B reach that grabs the ledge a feet and a half away from his hand. Yep, that's Ganon for you.
That's like 80% or the time it hits too, you just panick and forget which one works best in your situation. The fact that Captain Falcon can pressure you for a long while all while doing nothing adds to it, making his opponent stress level increase until they can finally hit them.
Kind of wish they gave Ganon his PM neutral B (Which is a float that lets you stall in the air for a little bit) Gives him sick setups and it helps him recover, plus it fits Ganon more as a character
I think it was the safer choice to keep Warlock punch after changing his Smashes. However now that the Smashes have already become so incredibly iconic, seriously ask someone what was Ganon's forward Smash in Smash 4 see if they remember, I feel they can safely swap it out for something better.
Ganon main from smash 4 here, it was Captian Falcon's elbow strike (or whatever you wanna call it) and his up smash was a painfully short upwards kick. Only reason I remember it is because it phisically hurt me to use them concidering that Ganon is both my favorite antagonist ever and that his other moves were really viable for who he was. So yea, I do welcome the big stupid sword that murders Pichus at 0% with open arms. Also Warlock punch has garnered so much hype during the years that I think that replacing it would be a huge double or nothing for Nintendo. Like, if it's a move that follows the same dynamic, as in stupid, slow but hype as all hell AND that's more iconic to canon Ganon, sure, the fans might accept it. But if it's a flimsy projectile that just helps start combos or a Lucina/Marth shield break clone, yea people will riot. Sure the high comp players might like it and we'll see more Ganon mains on the competitive scene, but Ganon just won't be Ganon anymore. The whole part of the Ganon mains who are here for THE DORF, aka the goofy gameplay, the give me glory or give me death, the Ganonside on last stock to save the honor and the "I don't fight to win, I fight to humiliate my oponent !" mindset, they'll just feel robbed of one of their biggest tools of disrespect and fun. On top of that, I feel like his similarity to Captain Falcon allowed a bridge for Captain Falcon mains to experience a different flavor of fighter (which is how I became a Ganon main btw). He's similar enough that Captain Falcon mains can familiarise themselves with him first, then develop their own playstyle yet still be able to go back to their original main at any point. It also works the other way around (though less effectively), so it's a win/win.
Replace warlock punch with a counter that behaves like Jigglypuff rest: Comes out frame one, has 1 Intangability frame and is usually a guaranteed kill move.
yeah honestly ganon is in a bad place. He's fun and landing shit is hype but like, he's one of the only characters to not have a canonical moveset. The others being the starfox crew because.. well what moveset do you give characters who's games revolve around spaceships? Thinking about it, when did ganon have a sword aside from twilight princess?
Most specials seem to be inspired by what the Arwings do, but I can't for the life of me explain the Up Special. As for Ganondorf, that sword he uses in Ultimate was actually seen in a tech demo for the GameCube, showing a scene where he was fighting Link with it. It's funny to me, as it's appeared in 2 released Smash games (he had it in a victory animation in Melee) and 0 released Zelda games. Also he used two smaller swords in Wind Waker, but that was an entirely different fighting style.
@@jackhammer4499 Ah the arwing thing makes sense. The up special could just be referencing something as simple as the engines. I wonder if Ganon's lack of canonity in his moveset is because people like him as a bad falcon echo or because the dev's really have no inspiration for what to do with him.
@@franklinturtleton6525 I think it's a character identity thing to Sakurai. Which is, of course, a colossal shame. As MockRock said, you know that if Ganondorf was introduced to Smash later, he'd have a completely original moveset.
Sylvanos from RoA would probably be a better template for Ganon, as a stage-control heavy character. Reflector neutral special, farther/more controllable up special, longer side special, and a down special projectile that he could hit around. Nostalgia is no excuse at this point.
@@GothicSoldier9000 I really don't understand why they haven't changed Ganondorf's special moves. They are what are supposed to be what shows the characters Canonical abilities, yet the only Special the does this is Flame Choke. I don't think people are attached to Warlock punch, Wizard's Foot, and Dark dive, so there's really no excuse for not exchanging for moves that are canon, like a Electric orb, reflecter, and Warping recovery.
as a ganon main, i want to see warlock punch remade into a projectile ganon would be so much better if he had a reliable way to contest with projectile characters, so a projectile of his own is the best option
I would miss warlock punch cause shield breaking is kinda ganondorf’s thing They seriously should just give most of Ganondorf’s move set to Black Shadow. Bring back the smash 4 smash attacks with a lightning attribute (maybe even black lightning), actually give his specials lightning attributes instead of purple magic, give him a different up tilt (since volcano kick is basically Ganondorf’s prime big move), different animations that fit Black Shadow better, and make his final smash a reference to his doomsday plan from the anime if it worked out (similar to King K. Rool’s).
bill bobs hmm hero can stack so much stuff and in theory I think I’ve seen a video where they managed to do over 500%.... plus thwack exist as a chance for a one hit kill so idk how you would rate that in damage...
The thing with Smash is that due to input lag/reaction times, players are actually playing a quarter second into the future...So the only use for these big moves is disruption when the enemy is confused
Here’s an idea: What if there was a tournament of all characters to determine which one has the strongest big move? Ness’s pk thunder, the Falcon punch, Ike’s eruption, Luigi’s uppercut, pichu’s head bash, Jigglypuff’s rest, and many more (except flare blade)
Given the amount of sheer power a rage Ridley has getting a clutch Skewer in a last stock situation could very well instantly win you the game. Still not recommended in most situations but desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures. That and most big moves don't lead into a tech situation which is unique.
the way i see it, those big, impractical moves could have an intimidation factor, even in top level play. in stressful situations, they can scare the opponent into making a mistake
New BIG Move: Byleth's Amir Yes, I'd replace Warlock Punch, but not Falcon Punch, as the latter is so iconic (and more useful than Warlock Punch). If they're going to keep Warlock Punch in, at least make it decent, maybe having more range or less startup or being able to cancel it. I'd also like a buff to Byleth's Amir, as while it has better range and can be easily turned around, it's still very slow and near unusable in the air, as it gets significantly weaker unlike Falcon Punch. I don't have much of a problem with Kirby's Hammer Flip, but it'd be nice to see the Brawl aerial version return. I'm not sure yet on how I feel about Ridley's Skewer, it always seemed like a "useless move" like Samus's jab rather than a "big move" like Falcon Punch. And while it's not used very often, Luigi's down taunt is actually occasionally a strategy and I think it should be the only taunt allowed online, if they're removing all the others (maybe keep Snake's box too). I mean, it's not like people will stop taunting, between Incineroar's auto-taunts, Dedede's crouch, teabagging, disrespecting, and dashdancing, they still have many ways to annoy the opponent.
"[...]it's great to have them in the game, because the ability to express yourself through chaos and laugh at the odds is exciting, challenging and above all, (hits down taunt) FUN! exactly what smash should be." You represents me and my wish to keep having fun with smash. (and with my clip) Thanks, bro. (y)
I mean Down Taunt isn't meant to be good, it's a super disrespectful taunt and the fact that it's hard to land and has low reward makes it even more disrespectful when killing with it.
I would be happy to say goodbye to warlock punch, if they gave Volcano Kick the super armour as well, since it's such a weak option as well. Would make it less risky.
i'm kinda upset that Ike's eruption wasn't mentioned, despite it being a contender for this list, however I kind of understand that it might be different between ultimate and smash 4(I only play 4 atm, don't have a switch yet) and it is quite easy to land and is not too powerful when uncharged
Sakurai himself basically came out and said people aren't playing sick enough. I knew he was a true Melee fan at heart, even if he denies it to this day.
I main puff in every smash and I absolutely loved rest in 64 and melee because the reward felt equal to the risk of using the move However in brawl and especially 4 and ult the move went from a good balance of risk and reward to a lot of risk for not that much of a reward
Puff secondary here. Rest in 64 isn't that good and I think Ultimates is better. Obviously melee rest is insane and kills at 30%. but you can combo into rest in ultimate, sing is really good, kills at 50ish. And once you get really good at landing it, the risk becomes less since you're more confident. Puffs still a low tier, but rest is still frame 2 and if you practice landing rests a lot the risk becomes lower.
@@FlappyCat-ef6oq rest is still really good in 64, due to the increased hitstun in 64 it has a ton of confirms and kills super early, in ult the risk I'm mostly talking about is if you land it theres still a 33% chance it wont star or screen ko and if your opponent has a fast option you'll get punished for even killing with the move
