The BIG PROBLEM with Critical Role's new show 

Remember in Call of Cthulhu: the more time and effort you put into your character’s backstory, the funnier it’ll be when they die in the first session.

If Candela Obscura is making you a bit afraid, then it must be working as a horror game already! 😧

ngl the green screen mistake with the Call of Cthulhu book being purple like the background actually looks like it'd make for a really cool limited edition book

I can see the Critters jumping to the new system, but I don't think they'll be pulling people away from CoC. It's two different audiences.

For me, I get more of a steampunk vibe from their game. Almost like a Jules Verne style game, rather than the Cthulhu Horror. And, without knowing what it will play like, I would imagine this pointing more people in the direction of Call of Cthulhu how want a meatier horror game with less fantasy elements.

@1:05 "I apologize to all the Pinkertons in the audience" earned my like. The laughs didn't end after that, either.

As a long time Keeper and occasional investigator I share your concerns. I do have hope for CoC keeping it's position in the ttrpg world. With 40 years of content in a fully backwards compatible system I have no plans to abandon my favorite game system.

Ok I don’t normally do this but I am 10 minutes in and still waiting on why there is a big problem with critical roles new game lol

I will finish the video, though from the outset I feel like leaning into separation and divisiveness doesn't really serve D&D. CritRole has used different systems many, many, many times. I use a different system for my therapeutically applied TTRPG, but it is a boon for D&,D regardless of system. But hey, I'll reserve further judgement and pop back to comment at the end! Edit: that rage bit was fab Edit again: look, I think the concern is fair, but to the level of it being a big problem when we know closer to nothing about the content or system... It seems a little premature? If people love it, it will no doubt bring them to Call and they'll love that, too. A full tide makes all ships in the harbour rise, after all!

Candela Obscura takes from CoC, yes. It takes even more from Vaesen tho. I'm just glad that the creators have mentioned the systems they take inspiration from (Vaesen and Blades in the Dark) in the manual, thus spreading the word about these fantastic games to the CR community, and hopefully bringing new people into the genre. TLDR: This can be very good for CoC and other horror games

Competition is always a good thing. Copyrights expire for a reason, and that reason is that culture as a whole is more important than profit. Call of Cthulhu is not going anywhere, but *if* those guys manage to make something so good that people will love it more than COC, so be it, it will mean that we have something better.

not going to lie, CoC in Purple looks really good

Completions breeds innovation. People act like they have no choice but once you have the rules you can play forever. No company tells me which fantasy or horror game I play.

Horror's ability to blend with other genres is one of my favorite things about it.

Seeing the Critical Role folk’s attitude over time, I would predict it makes itself different enough to not threaten CoC, attracting a segment of their players, and a segment of D&D but reproducing/threatening neither. Perhaps it will be the gateway game into something more hardcore like CoC? The game space is large enough for many games,gamers, and styles of play.

There once was a laundromat in my street. It was doing fine. Then a second one opened a few houses away with lower prices. The first one had to lower prices. Then both went bankrupt, as there weren't enough customers. It took years for a new one to open there again.

This is less of a Matt Mercer issue and more of a "everybody wants to run but very few want to see thier characters forced to eat dirt" issue.

I don't think Pinkerton jokes are ever going to get old! I've never tried Call of Cthulhu, although one of our group wants to run a short campaign on it soon. We're actually really happy to have an excuse to try other systems.

Personally I see no danger for Call of Cthulhu from Candela Obscura. I expect Candela Obscura to be good. I expect it's going to be a big hit for a few months. But it's focus on one-shots and short adventures means Critical Role is relatively soon going to switch to different show or different setting. With them moving on to something else, the popularity of the system will quickly evaporate. And although Candela Obscura might be good and have support from it's creators, the amount of resources and content Call of Cthulhu already offers, means it will take a long time for Cthulhu to be dethroned. Although an actual competition in the genre might be a good thing.

8 months later we've seen the reviews. I don't think we've got anything to worry about

19:10 into this, still waiting for you to make a legitimate point. Oh... it never happened... Anyway, my take: absolutely ANYTHING that fractions complacent D&D players away into other settings (and more importantly, systems) stands to potentially benefit every other system out there. If it forces CoC to evolve into a better system, on the way (and trust me, it needs to), so much the better.

came here to learn about CR new show and all i got was a 20 minute advert for something im not interested in.

I think most of my issues with the system are the same ones I have with the newer attempts white wolf made (and use for stuff like L.A. by Night) at remaking their system. When every basic action you attempt seems to literally be capable of causing damage to your character and you don't really have any basic abilities you feel like you can count on the whole system feels really like a drag to play. Watching the first episode Laura's character Arlo takes way more damage than anybody else just cause she tries to do things to obtain information and move the plot forward. It feels like not only do you get the consequences of not succeeding but then you also get the punishment of taking damage just from trying to use a basic ability. Same reason if anyone ever wants to play White Wolf content that I would break out the oWoD books and set everything in late 90s early 2000s, having to make a hunger test and potentially frenzy every time you use any vampiric power at all is just too punishing on players, you should be scared of the things around you and the world around you in a setting...not the dice and dots on your sheet.

They say that the Quickstart Rules for Candela Obscura will be released (somewhere, they didn't specify in the post) in the morning of their first game (May 25, 2023). They are apparently -7 time zone.

I love yoshitoshi’s paintings. Freaky horror classic art.

My initial gut reaction to the Candela Obscura announcement was similar, a sinking feeling of loss for Call of Cthulhu since I want more people to try it out. My goal though is to avoid be stubborn or combative about it, and to try to use it as a gateway to CoC. If my d&d group sees CR playing their new system and wants to try something like it, I don't want to put them off of the genre with an "umm actually my game is already better". I'd sooner try adapting one of my favorite CoC scenarios to it and say "hey if you liked this, guess where there's a ton more!" and hope to redirect some of the energy into an interest in CoC. Also, CoC has a huge head start on Illuminated Worlds because of all of the settings that have already been made for it (it would take CR a huge amount of time to build a world to compete with that found in the Delta Green books, for example, and you can hook players with that).

Where is the link to episode 1 and why is it like a scavenger hunt to find it

I dont think anyone is actually into 5th ed as their fave system, there are just people who have never played anything else

I hope Candela Obscura will be more like a fantasy/steampunk horror game and not a CoC knock-off.

Wow, the call of cuthulu book cover looks great in purple

What was the name of the greatest scenario again? Would like to purchase it thanks

That purple CoC looked dope though

Candela Obscura isn't made by Matthew Mercer though... If anything, he seems to have next to nothing to do with its creation apart from being a creator for the same publisher. If you're going to be making a 20 minute long video explaining the supposed issue with a piece of artistic work, then at least do the diligence of crediting and subsequently putting the blame on the right people in your statement piece :/

The time travel machine reminded me of the scene from The IT Crowd where they showed The Internet, which had no wires because it was wireless. :-D

Critical Role is a good show and I genuinely hope Matt Mercer does well with his own system, but there's no denying that I, as a player of lesser known RPGs and whose first experience was actually with CoC rather than D&D, I would have liked that rather than bring some homebrew to the table, they would have used the opportunity of their fame to bring knowledge about other systems. I don't know; something like trying Pathfinder again so that more people play it; playing CoC since they want a horror game set in the 20's so badly; or directly giving a chance to unfairly forgotten systems (Ryuutama, ahem, ahem, a favorite of mine whose community pretty much death outside of Japan, ahem, ahem)

Candela Obscura will be have their own fanbase, probably based on the Critical Rol hypetrain with all those players who are enthralled by the Matt Mercer effect. CoC will be fine.

this does not make sense... so I cannot realese a new TTRPG that will outshine another TTRPG? Just because your favorite game won't have the spotlight anymore means that CR should not create their own game(that may have the vibe and horror but are not the same). And the Matt Mercer effect it's not his fault, so when someone does something with much pasion it's bad because other people will think that it is always like that? I feel the blame it's elsewhere. bye. sorry if bad grammar

What edition or version would you recommend? I have not played it for over 10 years.

There's also games like Monster of the Week and City of Mist that take place in modern day as well.

Keeper Discourse, "When you drop your trousers, you see that your 'nards have been replaced with the face of Anthony Charles Lynton Blair!!" Player fails SAN roll, "LINES AND VEILS!!! LINES AND VEILS!!! LINES AND VEILS!!! "

"Methinks the lady doth protest too much" Critical Role doing their thing may have an impact on both D&D and CoC, but those ripples will be very small. The audience for Critical Role is only a percentage of the player pool of either of those games, and despite everyone thinking that they are some magical group that can warp the fabric of the industry, they are just another player in it and perhaps they might even fail as a company...we shall see.

Hey Discourse, why do you have different channels? Why not one channel with 2 separate playlists?

Ahh Call of Cthulhu - The joy of being the parties scientist and researcher and the one trying to rationalise every encounter and devise way to counter them... the joys of chemical warfare versus the occult....

I'm not *that* worried about Candela Obscura somehow replacing Call of Cthulhu. What I *am* worried about is now the Mercer effect spreading to CoC tables. It's bad enough in D&D. Though maybe, just maybe, it will open up some of their fervent watchers to branch out into other games - help broaden some perspectives. Also, hilarious vid today. I haven't laughed out loud like that in ages.

Great Video! When I saw your cool Purple Logo Starter Set, I wanted one! Chaosium’s Call of Cthulhu is a classic. I remember when I played it in the early 90s there was a mystique about it and if you lived through an adventure it was like finding magical items in any other game. They have some big books to fill.

So what i heard from them is "i dont't like it because its diffrent from the game i like but its not diffrent enough and i need views". I got some news for everyone who says candela isn't original enough, ahem THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COMPLETLEY ORIGINAL IDEA IN 2023!!!!! Everything as been done now all we can do is put our own spin on it. Even CoC runs the basic sytem that was developed for rune quest paste and copy time to edit. Im gonna simpify it if you know you know "i can like kissey kissey goo goo and skull squisher".

Love the BRP system, even used it to make some DND style fun. Hyped for their revision, and playing some Down Darker Trails for spooky wild west fun.

Although if you want a closer comparison to the setting of Candela Obscura then you might want to look at Castle Falkenstein (R Talsorian Games) as well. It depends on how horrific the Fairylands of CO actually are (compared to the Faerie of Castle Falkenstein which can indeed be pretty frightening in and of itself given the horrific nature of most fairy-tales before they were cleaned up for children). It may indeed serve as a better sourcebook for Candela Obscura games than Call of Cthulhu, since both the steampunk (although it was written well before steampunk was a term of art) and magic are baked in. Although the fact that it is a card-based rather than dice-based system will probably turn many modern players off (although it can have quite advantageous effects on gameplay). That said, it was also later recreated as a GURPS sourcebook.

It's 2024, the Mickey Mouse joke just expired...

The green screen error made me think "that's a cool printing"

Yeah I dunno, I'm gonna wait and actually see how it plays out before I form an opinion.

11:41 When she gets to the point.

Im going to Gen Con. CR is supposed to be there. Ill stop by their booth and see whats up......

To be honest, I'd love to see you take on how the Mothership RPG walked in on the play space previously controlled by Dark Heresy (Scifi d100 horror rpgs based on a mash up of scifi franchises) to set up shop, and how it's fairing vs the return of 40k D100 rpgs via Imperium Maledictum from Cubicle 7.

So now that it turns out that Candela Obsura is just Blades in the Dark is this video the same except sub in Blades for call of cthulu?

Now that we know a bit more about Candela Obscura I'd be surprised if it particularly challenges Call of Cthulhu. It plays very strongly to the niche of "characters working for an occult investigation organisation in a fantasy version of Victorian(ish) England". It doesn't really overlap with CoC's classic "ordinary people encountering the unknown" vibe at all.

First thing I thought when I saw the trailer for Candela Obscura was: "Is this Steampunk CoC?"

Even if the green screen kinda messed it up at 1:13, colored variants of CoC would be cool!

I had to get my Thieve's Cant cypher out to discern what you tried to say in this video...

My problem with their whole "new" system is that mechanically it is Blades in the Dark. And with the Steampunk with Ghosts theme it is thematically Blades in the Dark as well. Frankly the Cirt Role team kind of made a poster child move that kind of validates the concerns that probably drove Wizards of the Coast to make a grap for the revenue from products that build on their ruleset ... Would it have killed them to at least aknowledge the true creators of the system and announce that they made some changes to setting, story and such?

I had a look at the quickstart. It looks to have a lot of Blades in the Dark in its mechanics.

I dunno, the only critters I know are intense dnd fans. Can't imagine them ever trying even Candelabra Obfuscation, but if they do end up branching out, it'll probably lead them towards systems like CoC that have much more content out there for them.

the COC is the horror godzilla of RPGs.

I dream of having players who want horror as much as I do. Mine like to be unkillable superheroes which is still fun but I looooove the tone of horror.

Junkies, indeed! Holy canoli. You are an amazing presenter/RU-vidr. Your videos (ooh, is my boomer showing) are informative and amusing. Thank you for your awesomeness.

My take: CO is a system to attract the Critter Cult fandom into COC; hopefully they discover its been done before, and better.

And then we're all surprised to discover that Candela Obscura has nothing in common with Call of Cthulhu except a 1920s flavor setting and a cat named N****rman.

Honestly. Nothing can surplang call of cthulu

CoC in purple looks pretty good actually.

Now the rules have been seen both games offer a very different experience despite the aesthetic similarities so I doubt there will be any long-term damage to CoC.

Call of Cthulhu is the antithesis of Dungeons and Dragons and Wizards of the Coast. Edit: (and that is not a bad thing)

Chaosium not being part of the OSR is an odd statement. They are an OG RPG, they brought a skill based approach to RPGs vs Classes.

Candela Obsura is a shadow copy of Blades in the Dark

Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed Candela Obscura didn't do something more original with the setting. They could have forgone the Roaring 20's vibe and done a bizzare fusion of High Victorian and the 70's 'sex, drugs and rock'n'roll'.

I thought this was a CR rant and thought Call of Cthulhu was an ad section and was thinking "dang how long is this ad taking?"

16:23 - OK, I'm all Captain America "I understood that reference!" here, but what story was it that ended with the main character finding the person he was talking to was nothing more than a disguise being worn by a Mi-Go or the like? Because that looks like what you're referencing here. Also, people forget that Mi-Go can do that. They're fungus, trimming or reshaping their bodies is a cause of discomfort but not fatal nor long-term disabling. They make themselves a person suit out of the protoflesh from one of the Mythos entities (think it's the one stuck in the Moon, but don't quote me, that was old Delta Green stuff) and walk around undetected. Easier to scope out targets for abduction and brain cannister usage that way.

We are , somewhat of a Pinkertons in my CoC group right now . Except it isn't some MTG RU-vid who got send cards by accident, it's...(check's notes) a cult lead by two werewolves, who are trying to unbind the shard of a god in our employees mansion. I mean , I get it , the guy has a mummy and a spider lair that defies space on his adict , but that is no reason to raid it in .. the 3-4 days we have until the full moon . I am sure nothing bad will happen. And the keeper's suggestion to call out backup characters for , , backup is nothing to wary about. (Starting to become glad we raided some of the cults guns right now)

My group never latched on to Call of Cthulhu. They don't enjoy short one shot games; where in the end you basically lose at some level. They tend to like character development and long running stories. CoC was simply too much Boy Scout camp out horror story with broader participation and clunky combat. The White Wolf World of Darkness series enables you to tell the same type of stories on a personal level and keep the story running; too each their own. Competition, however, is always good for the market. If your favorite system gets replaced because someone offers a better/alternative product, in the end, the community wins. CoC has always been a niche game. It was created to fill a specific niche of storytelling and gameplay. It will remain a beloved niche game for those seeking horror genre.

The scenario is call "In Media Res" from "The Resurrected III: Out of the Vault." Best of luck getting a copy (if you're real creative or have a rather big cthulu buff or ttrpg oriented friend a digital copy is possible and cheaper in all likelihood).

I think when comes to lovecraftian not be claimed also has a wee bit to do with his flaming racism too....i know, i know art, artist. But in terms of greater context its probably there, just like the punk scene, dont like its there, but it is

I've been running CoC since it came out. Currently running a Acthung!Cthulhu game. :)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm gonna eat some octopus tonight

There's also a starting guide to the world being released some time this week

I've said elsewhere about the impact the Illuminated Worlds d6 game system line. It might see an influx of players at first, but then only the ones it actually suits (and otherwise hardcore fans) will likely stick with it for a longer term. So for those who want to play their home games just like CR does, it might be what those players are looking for. Otherwise, it will be a brief stint for the rest. Of that 11% market share (according to Roll20), Chaosium may lose less than 0.5% to the Obscura game. Will all 1.2 million CR subs even partake of the stream of the game? It will likely be a fraction of that. Meanwhile, D&D might lose less than 3% of their 53% once the Daggerthing version of the IW RPG is released. It does seem that the IW RPG is a d6 system. There's plenty of variety just in that. Exploding dice, roll under, roll over, dice pools both large and small, and table consultation. Dimension 20 did some stuff with PbtA, which is a d6 system. BLMulligan and Mercer have interacted before, so it inspires me to guess that there's a chance IW RPG could be a PbtA derivative system, particularly since the Bakers encourage people to make the system their own, and the system is quite narrative.

In terms of average concurrent viewers Critical Role isn't the largest TTRPG stream on Twitch. This title (afaik) belongs to Cellbit's (The guy on QSMP, yes) Ordem Paranormal, which started as a Call of Cthulhu stream on a custom (Although still in the real world) setting but eventually turned into it's own system. The only reason this isn't talked about as much is because Cellbit streams in portuguese but for a lot of people here in Brazil they might even recognize Cellbit more than they would Matt Mercer. So there is easily potential for something like that to grow huge. I would not be surprised if they are at least aware of Cellbit's numbers. Also a lot of CoC's popularity in Japan also comes from content creators, although there instead of life sessions people usually watch animated post-session retellings not unlike stuff like Tales from my D&D Campaign.

Those were a lot of words to explain that setting (Fantasy, SciFi, 1920s, etc) and genre (horror, adventure, mystery, etc) are not the same.

Some friends of me are running a lovecraft themed scape room XD

"Jinkies Indeed" just lost it to this! Perfection!

The Call of Cthulhu book appearing mysteriously in the wrong color seems so on brand for the game :D

Remember, Cthulu saves...in case He gets hungry later

idk, I kinda doubt that this new system will replace Call of Cthulu any time soon. There's no reason why those two can't co-exist. Like there's multiple high fantasy ttrpgs with very similar 'vibes' that are played consistently and sell well. Even if there is a most popular one (remains to be seen which one that will be in this case) that doesn't mean that the others are unpopular or not successful The ttrpg community is rapidly expanding (in part thanks to critical role), so it's not like players are an insanely limited resource, that is stolen aways from other titles. I'm sure there will be people on both sides, who prefer one system over the other and maybe even some people who play both from time to time

Great plug great game!! You would also love the Stalking the Night fantastic(Modern Horror) original Orange game it was before COC.

If you like CoC you should try the Masque of the Red Death sometime. It was a Wizard of the Coast and RPGA (when that was still a thing) setting. One of the best horrors around.

Ah common. I played Call of Cthulhu thirty-five (or forty) years ago. I know how the game works. The game works like the stories. You hope to go insane before being eaten by a monster that looks like a naked tree.

"Ethical difficulties" 😂 take my like.

I couldn't get into Call of Cthulhu for a myriad of reasons, but it is definitely a titan of a name in the world. It will be interesting to see what Candela Obscura does with their gameplay. Also really loved the shoutout to World of Darkness. My first love and deepest appreciation of that setting, especially Mage, but not even remotely the game I get to play most often.

I'm not really into horror but I played a few games of call of Cthulhu. All I have to say is if you fail to stop the summoning it's incredibly easy. Each round of combat 1d4 player characters die.

There’s also Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland 😊

Tayto Man, is creepy alright. Highly recommend you add the Mrs. Fisher's potato chips dancing potato man to your nightmare collection, though. He's not even trying to hide his malevolence as he leads two children in a ritual dance before the sacrifice.

I'm sure that CR loves CoC and would have loved to use it as the engine of their show, but after the OGL fiasco I think that CR doesn't want to be beholden to another gaming company ever again.