In this video Laughingstock Media explains the BIGGEST PLOT HOLES in the Cell Saga of Dragon Ball Z. INSTAGRAM: tinyurl.com/yb... Make sure to SUBSCRIBE & ENABLE NOTIFICATIONS to see ALL of my videos right away, when they come out!
First Fun Fact: in the Early Funimation Dub: they changed Cell’s explanation of how he survived his explosion. Rather then having a mass inside his head, he said every cell has a life of its own. If even one cell survives, that’s all he needs.
Lol wow. So even then they probably realized the plot hole and rewrote that part. Something that should've been carried over all later tellings of the story/manga rereleases.
So your telling me that DBZ Kai was so loyal to the original manga script that they would keep a plot hole about Cell's cluster of cells in his head as opposed to something that fixes the plot-hole in the original DBZ? okay.
For the first one that was trunks first jump to the past wasn't it so he could have assumed that it would affect his timeline but after he goes back and sees nothing changed then he learns that going back in time and changing things only affects that timeline
Regarding the "Trunks afraid of never be born" plot hole, it can be explained with himself not wanting to accidentally stopping his past self to be born in that timeline just because he showed up and reveal earlier than Bulma and Vegeta would fall in love
I'd rather have that,the cell saga was ass.the android saga was so cool amd edgy .androids were awesome and killers then 16 was let out.eveything was so cool and then went to crap with cell
@YerrBrke well the original plans for 19 and 20 seem to be introduction of 18 and 17 replacing them and what happened to those two.all in all it seems that whatever pair of androids he wanted to end the arc would be with destruction to a massive extent but cell was made which in my opinionnruiend rhe whole android saga
The first plot hole - trunks warning not to alert anyone to bulma / vegeta being his parents to avoid risking him not being born - is easy to explain and isn't a plot hole He explains when he returns to the main timeline that he didn't realise this was how time travel worked (diverting timelines). He thought on his first trip to the past that would change his future, but it didn't. So it makes sense that he would be cautious to avoid preventing his birth, as he didn't know better.
Great video, Mike! My argument about Cell's nucleus in his head is that the reason he survived both the IT Kamehameha and the explosion on King Kai's planet is that the nucleus simply wasn't destroyed. In the first instance, yes, his head was blown off, but probably the nucleus remained and this is how he was able to regenerate. Same on King Kai's planet - his whole body was destroyed, but yet thanks to the nucleus surviving, Cell managed to regenerate completely. Going back to his perfect form without 18 was definitely an asspull, but it still works for me due to the shock factor of him coming back with IT and scaring the shit out of everyone else back on the battlefield!
The arrival of Trunks in the past altered the timeline. This is why things change slightly from the way it was described to Trunks by his mom in the future.
22:39 when i was a kid i always thought Cell had like a mutated corrupted version of Piccolo's regeneration, like Gero took Namekian's ability to regenerate and turned it up to 11 and made it unnatural and monstrous through technology. But only recently, with video analysis like this one, i learned this was never the case and it's actually a retcon that made it so Piccolo was supposed to have been able to do that all along which doesn't make any sense whatsoever
Piccolo notably gets much weaker when he does it, so unlike Cell, there's probably percentage of his power it takes to regenerate certain things until he recouperates.
1) The fact that Trunks knew the exact time and place Goku's ship landed implies that his future self didn't use Instant Transmission to stop Future Frieza and instead just landed on Earth normally for some reason, otherwise it'd be pretty random for Future Bulma to record when/where Future Goku's ship landed if he ditched it and teleported to the battlefield anyways. Ultimately, this means Future Bulma likely never learned of the technique 2) How was Trunks and Bulma supposed to know how time travel works when that was literally the first time they did this? Sure they had done the calculations to prove that it could theoretically work but there was no way to actually confirm it until Trunks made the first trip 3) Yeah I got nothing on the Android name drop, kinda just have to suspend disbelief on that like with how they changed Gohan's starting age from 3 to 4 4) You can argue Cell was talking about taking cells from Trunks when he was a baby but choosing not too because they have enough saiyan DNA and because well... he's a baby. Other than that, yeah this arc got big holes
You're talking about Goku from the main timeline, I'm talking about Future Goku from Trunks' timeline. If Trunks knew when/where Goku's ship would land, that would mean Future Goku didn't use instant transmission to stop Frieza and instead landed on earth normally for some reason
My take on your first plot hole/inconsistency was that Trunks had originally true BELIEVED that he may never be born if Vegeta/Bulma found out, because Bulma may have told him that herself. Until he came back to the future and noticed that nothing had changed that is. When he went back, he realized that maybe she had lied. Headcanon: She probably lied because Trunks was probably the best thing to happen for Bulma, and also Vegeta by proxy.. so of course Bulma would want Trunks in every and all universes to be born, cause that's her baby :)
no she didnt lie, when they are transporting Goky by flight, they ask him WHY he came back if he sees nothing would change, and he literally says "MOTHER" his mother in the future wanted him to try to change the future they live in, and if that DID not work, at least prevent another disaster future from ever happening.
It was Trunks' first experience with time travel, in fact, it was because he and Bulma hoping that the Androids being defeated in the past would change their present. That is why he was worried about making sure that the truth is secret.
It could be possible cell was not totally used to all his powers when he went to the past. He had only trunks in the way. Any real threat was in the past for him to understand how far he can Regen with piccolos cells. Also if he has friezaa DNA he might have superior Regen hacks but yeah it's a bit of a long shot. Good video I loved imperfect cell the most cunning hideous scary.
Gero being unfamiliar with Super Saiyan always bugged me. How many characters threw the term around within earshot of his DNA collecting drones? Trunks transformed twice in the same period of time, and Goku did so once as well. Gero must have been hard of hearing and blind in his human body!
I have a few head-canony saves for some of these. Yes many of them are still plotholes but I think it's fun to try to reason through. For Trunks not knowing about Goku's intervention, maybe Bulma just never told him or fully explained everything about that event. This one isn't too bad, I'd moreso just call it unexplained. For Trunks being paranoid about his birth, maybe he knew it wouldn't change anything but maybe since it's about himself, he was just being careful. Or maybe since he was around Goku, his mom, and his dad, he was shook and brain farted. It could also be that Trunks didn't know about splitting timelines at this point, and learned about them. This one is somewhat bad, but again could just be something unexplained. For the thing with 19 and 20, this one is a little harder. I definitely think it's possible that maybe this Trunks standing here (whether it's different than the Trunks that comes back in 3 years or not) knew them by different numbers via small timeline differences. This one is pretty bad, I don't know if I would be able to call this one unexplained, even an explanation in-universe would raise some eyebrows. For Cell not knowing he could regenerate/fitting in the time machine, maybe he just didn't know yet that he could re-generate. We've seen similar things before with how Cell was surprised about his perfect form upon getting it and was "trying out" his body. Maybe he just hadn't fully discovered that ability yet. After all, he is very strong and killed Trunks so maybe he never had to regenerate at any point. Or maybe he knew he could regenerate but just didn't know that ability was from Piccolo himself, which could be a way that he knew he could regenerate but was still surprised, maybe he thought it was Frieza's ability or something. I don't think this one is bad, I know it seems that way at first, but I think this one can be explained a lot by Cell being "young" and discovering his body. For the thing with Piccolo commenting on the kamehameha is really weird. I could maybe chalk this up to Piccolo not understanding how Cell's power works (i.e. maybe he thinks the strength of the kamehameha is proportional to the power of the individual at the time of cell gathering). I'd call this one a nitpick, but it is kind of weird and I don't like it. For the thing with Cell commenting on not getting Trunks' cells, I actually have an interesting save for this. So if you look at the manga panel itself, all Cell says is "we could have added Trunk's cells." He doesn't explicitely say "we could have added Trunk's cells AT THE TIME OF HIM KILLING FRIEZA." So if you really wanted to, you could maybe twist and contort this sentence to refer to baby Trunks in his own timeline, since it doesn't technically say which Trunks. Now obviously I don't think that's what's implied here, seeing as Frieza and King Cold are shown being killed in the same way they were by Trunks (unless you wanted to somehow read in Future Goku randomly finding a sword lol) and it occurs right after the sentence about Frieza and King Cold. But I still think that would be an interesting save. Similarly, I think the stuff you brought up about "Cell could sense stuff underground" or "Cell visited the computer in our timeline and just wrongly extrapolated and assumed stuff about his own timeline". I think given the amount of explanations about this, it's not too bad and I actually don't mind this one. For the thing with Trunks going back in time, I think this might be the worst one. Why in the world would Trunks want to go to 1 year before and mess with timelines? It just seems out of his character. I think probably the best save for this one is that either he wanted to make an even better timeline and maybe his personality changed a bit and he was more down to mess with stuff since he was so happy about beating the androids in his timeline. Or maybe the Trunks that was programming the time machine was still in the process of getting it programmed correctly and messed up, and Cell happened to kill him before he could correct his issue. I think both are....okay-ish explanations, but yeah, this one is pretty bad. For the thing about Cell's core, I think this one is a bit overblown personally. It could be possible that Goku just didn't destroy the core. Cell himself seemed to imply that the core was microscopic, so maybe the core survived even through the blast. Maybe Cell put extra ki defenses around the core during the blast. Maybe Goku was so tired and worn out (clearly shown after he is breathing heavy) that the kamehameha wasn't powerful enough to completely vaporize every single cell of the area of Cell he blasted. Maybe Cells are smaller than ki and the core like...weaved its way between ki particles (lol this one is stupid ngl). Maybe Cell regenerated some cells around the core right as the blast was happening. Or the thing you said about Cell being able to move the core around. I know all of these are head canony, but I think with enough charitable interpretation, this one is fine and not really a problem to me. The whole idea of the scene is that Goku tried his best and just wasn't strong enough to defeat Cell and that's why Gohan went in, so I think the idea of the core not being destroyed for whatever reason fits in with the narrative anyway. That said, despite all of this stuff, I love this arc and I love how Toriyama kept things constantly changing and us along for the ride. I think that's the reason why we were able to not notice or forgive some of these things (along with his fire artwork). And to me, I think that says something about this series, that even with a few things here and there, we're so invested that we don't notice them. Also I'd say thankfully a lot of these plotholes aren't so bad that they ruin the entire story. If there was a plothole about like...something core to Goku or Gohan's character, or something core to like how the entire series works, then I think we'd be more mad. But thankfully it's stuff that only seems to be a problem when you really dive in like hardcore fans like us do. Other than that, awesome video Mike! Keep up the good work and glad to see you back at it! Hope everything is going okay with you! I know you got burnt out on RU-vid a bit in the past, so be sure to take some breaks and do the content you want to. Love you brother.
The cells from Trunks he's referring to are from his teenage days of training with Gohan. The computer got cells from Frieza and Cold and stuck around for years while Cell was built. It determined that young Trunks wasn't necessary for the creation of Cell. The vision Cell has of Trunks killing Frieza and Cold was the potential that Cell could've had (Trunks' Super Saiyan power) but didn't need.
You also forgot about the Namekian who picolo fused with before on NAMEK. He was so far damaged that he couldn't even regenerate anymore, so Picollo playing WEAK like that was a smart move Cell probably thought he got him beat. I also think that regeneration is usually not instant so.
Not only should Piccolo's cells not give Cell as much regeneration as he got, but also both Goku and Cell shouldn't get Zenkais from self inflicted injuries in the Frieza Saga nor Cell Saga respectively.
While not canon, Multiverse explained this by saying that cell can freely move his core around his body, and fittingly it's like a huge Larva. This kind of explains it, and gives Vegeta a way to kill him, even though he isn't as powerful as Cell at this point.
Maybe trunks wanted to go back again to just silently ending the issue without having to intervene or change the timeline. Plan was to finish off the android problem before it happens and go home. He is theoretically the strongest fighter besides goku. In trunks end scene flashback he is technically still sword trunks, but in the final scene. Trunks is planning to travel but knowing about cell’s existence and how he perishes. He is already expecting him to show up. So maybe future cell caused his own demise. Him monologuing and traveling eliminates the surprise factor and isn’t able to end trunks.
16:12 Cell isn't from the same timeline as Trunks. He's from one where the androids were deteated or don't exist. The fact he mentions Trunks' arrival means that the timeline branched off and in a butterfly effect enabled this Cell to exist.
This might be a Mandela effect but I always grew up on the presumption that Cell cam regenerate aslong as a single nucleus of a single cell survives the attack. With the father son kamehameha making a point of vaporising the very last cells of Cells body
First time coming across your videos. I’m not sure if you have, but if you haven’t I’d love a break down if any plot holes or just the convolution of the Goku Black arc in general as it’s my favorite arc regardless.
Trunks creates three timelines the moment he time traveled or rather he creates two extra timelines. The og timeline everyone dies basically red ribbon army wins. When he time travels it creates a future where he and mom can live peacefully maybe but at the same time created a universe where future trunks dies to cell hijacking the time machine which ironically means two timelines where red ribbon army won maybe
To be fair, when goku blasted Cell, his body blew apart and didn't fully disintegrate. You could literally see pieces of his body flying into the sky. So technically a single cell from his head core thing could still be alive
They completely assassinate Gohan for no reason in that arc. Gohan while timid seems perfectly fine with self defense in the freiza saga. An what makes him snap is a speech from a random dude Gohan basically never met/them dying.
ok the last one, Cell doesn't KNOW where the core cluster of cells are in his body, he assumes they're in his head, OR, he LIES about them being in his head. BOOM.
There are no plot holes as there are multiple timelines at play, at least four. Future Trunks was telling Goku about the timeline he lived through and was unaware at the time anyway that he was in an alternative version of that timeline.
@Laughingstock Media Another Plothole is the fact that Cell said he can uses all of Goku's moves including the Spirit which is a Move taught to him by King Kai and if he has moves given to Goku by King Kai that also means he had Kioken that he could have used at any time especially during the Beam Struggle him and Gohan had before the end of the Saga what do all of you think?
in terms of cell not knowing piccolo could regenerate his arm... i'm just devil's advocating here, but piccolo did tell cell that he wasn't piccolo in the beginning of their fight 🤷♂. cell didn't piece together the namekian's real identity until after he regrew his arm. it's a reach, but maybe toriyama intended this as a part of piccolo "tricking" cell? to reach further, i don't remember cell making any mention / implying any understanding of namekians in the manga. piccolo's cells are implied (by the manga panels) to have been collected during the saiyan saga when piccolo knew little of his namekian identity. so it could follow that cell thought regeneration was a piccolo exclusive, not an ability typical of whatever race piccolo could be. in a different context, it wouldn't be intuitive to believe adult gohan could perform instant transmission just because he looks like goku. again, just a devil's advocate point
More like this. Main timeline Trunks, came back and killed Freeza. He went back and defeated the androids eventually and gets ready to go back, which SPAWNS cell's timeline and that's where he went back to a different timeline than the one he originally came from due to his tampering. THAT Cell killed Trunks and came back spawning the timeline we see, which a Trunks who came back as well, came back. That's the one we see.
Future Cell came from the original timeline. It had its own future trunks who traveled to another past timeline with no future cell. Then future cell traveled to a virgin past timeline. A new future trunks from a slightly-less-future timeline traveled back to this past infested timeline. So, say the original is timeline T-0Y. Then there no-cell past timeline T-20Y. Then there's future timeline T-4Y where the Future Trunks we know comes from. And finally the main timeline we know is T-24Y. Exact number of years may not be accurate. That gives us: Timeline 1 - T-0Y: Future Cell timeline Timeline 3 - T-4Y: Future Trunks timeline Timeline 2 - T-20Y: Past No-Cell timeline (inferred from Trunks-1 only) Timeline 4 - T-24Y: Past Main timeline
Wait, someone sitting down and actually thinking about the story of Dragon Ball-- you know the most important thing of a book. Where were you, when I was getting banned off of forums for suggesting this, so many years ago?
It doesn't matter because the story was not plotted, it was "pantsed" meaning Toriyama made it up as it went along then would be refined by his editor. Looking at the series and criticizing it this way is unproductive because it's not trying to be a tightly plotted story, it's a serialized improvised gag martial arts manga. Rather than focus on what the story is allegedly doing "wrong" it would be far more productive to focus on everything it did right and marvel at how a cohesive popular narrative was able to form in spite of the pantsing process. I suppose those who can't do, teach and those who can't teach criticize.
well, another problem with the scene where Goku blows away the top half of Cell's body is the technique he uses. never before and never since has he used IT (Instant Transmission) with another technique. in fact, as far as i know: it's impossible. he usually always has to place his fingers on his forehead. the only time we see him use the technique w/o the fingers on his forehead is when he demonstrates it - funnily enough. although, i think the vibe of that scene is played more for laughs. IT just seems like it went through multiple iterations as Toriyama himself was figuring out how the mechanics of his own series worked. the whole "writing by the seed of his pants" thing. also, the future timeline Cell comes from. doesn't that one have a different past? like, we see Cell kill Trunks in the future, and then use his time machine. isn't the past he goes to- shouldn't it be a different past then the canonical one? - to clear this up in case i'm not being clear. canonical timeline i'll call Timeline A. or TA. Future Trunks' timeline would be TB. Cell's timeline he comes from would be TD. what i'm saying is: shouldn't the time machine be set to go back to TC? making it... 4.5D (i'll get into that later) - unless the time machines aren't actually time machines but are instead *timeline* machines; TLM. but it seems they have a limited amount of timelines they can go between. seemingly. perhaps not. maybe they travel to any timeline. even ones they didn't create. would that make them 5th dimensional? where 4th dimensional beings/objects can travel to any point in time on a single timeline: 5th dimensional beings/objects can travel to any point on any timeline!! my proposal is that the way i thought they worked is that: the TLMs could go back to their true past. and the past of the timeline they split off from. unless they don't have their own past. it's just a future timeline that gets created at the moment of a split. which is caused from the TLM going... to the past. it's a paradox. possible that i missed something. likely, in fact.
If you are comfortable with this amount of editing, this is perfectly fine with me. On par with the older videos in entertainment and info value. Hope you regain your traction in the algorithm.
I know literally no one in the comments has pointed this out, but the first one is not plot hole because Trunks didn’t know about time travel but now he knows k thx
i mean sure directly himself no, he wouldnt of been impacted, but it still could have prevented that timelines version of himself from being born, which would still have an impact on that timelines history, and he, like many in stories of going into the past, wanted to change as little as possible, granted getting personally involved in training for defeating both cell and the androids, and even giving information and medicine does directly change past events greatly, we are likely supposed to think these changes are there to be for humanities survival
On today explaining simple things some mofo thinks are plot holes: 1) Bulam didn't give Trunks an exhaustive list of all the abilities the different z fighters have? Really? That's supposed to be a plot hole? 2) Trunks not knowing how timetravel works literally the first time he is doing it is also not a plothole. Him magically knowing how it works would be a plot hole. 3) You being confused by timelines is not a plot hole. There was other Trunks in Cell's timeline. That's how Cell got the time machine. 4) Piccolo making a mistake in figuring out a convoluted time travel plot while fighting Cell is not a pothole. 5) Cell not knowing exactly how Piccolo's regeneration works the first time he meets him is not a plot hole. 6) Cell can regenerate from either his core or his body. Not a plot hole. It is NEVER said he can't regenerate without his core. And we are done.
I don't remember cell having any info on the Z fighters & I thought it was because the project was finished by a PC in a time where the Dr was gone. Where as 20 & 17 & 18 & 16 should have such info given to them when the Dr programed it in.
My favorite plot hole is how big of a dik Future Goku is (or rather original timeline Goku). Like, he dies and he just decides not to help Gohan and Trunks at all in any way, shape or form. He could have at least told them about the room of spirit and time. The hyperbolic time chamber could have easily got Trunks and Gohan to SSJ2. Or at the very least to the bulky SSJ form.
@@DanielMWJ except my argument is he really cares about the Earth. The androids were clearly a major threat to the planet. He wouldn't have just given up unless he was forced to, but he literally saved the entire Universe twice so I have no doubt he was able to keep his body.
Cell can regen from cells because he also has Frieza-clan vitality/durability. As for why Goku blowing his head off didn't work --- Cell saw it coming and moved his core to his lower half.
ALso why Future Trunks/Gohan never went into space to look for (New Namek) and asked someone there to use the Namekian Dragonballs etc. Those are the biggest PLOT holes.
You named so many plot holes, yet you missed the biggest one. Dr Gero is surprised when Goku goes ssj, but then later it is stated that they did not take cells from Trunks, because they had enouth saiyan cells already. But Trunks was already able to go ssj, and did so against Frieza, so dr Gero should have known about the ssj transformation.
I love you, Mike. I love you like a son. I don’t know how old you are or what you’re like as a person, but I want to protect you with all my heart. Great video❤
I dont see how these are plotholes. I see these as trunks doesn't know what he's talking about and is being corrected several times. Which definitely happens between all of the cast, if I'm not mistaken, about many things. Trunks is a teenager and thinks he knows better. I'd be curious to know if bulma was able to stick around to see goku show up with his instant transmission in Trunk's timeline. I can see all of this working out exactly as said, but I'm sure they adjusted things to make sure it's more clear or something. I can't emphasize this enough, anime has this consistent issue with it's viewers where if a character says something, everyone takes it as truth. It's actually very obnoxious to see this happen to the community of people that watch these shows. Just because someone says "he's more fearsome than xyz" doesn't mean that is correct or true at all, it's just speculation. It's like people forget they live on earth and people do that shit all of the time.
I could see Goku's Kamehameha not being enough to destroy that one particular nucleus Cell needs to regenerate, just like his own self-destruct didn't, even though it vaporized the rest of his body along with Goku.
the scene where trunks answers gohans question about traveling back in time to destroy the androids before they are activated disproves the first plot hole. trunks only just THEN figured out that traveling to the past doesn't fix the present. Also, bringing goku to the future to kill the andoirds WOULD work. that's literally what Super did. timelines only split when HISTORY is changed. if you travel to the future, you are not changing history, you are creating it. However, I agree that cell saying he could have gained trunks' cells was incorrect. However, its not a big deal. its not like if trunks wasn't there, frieza would have still died to goku. As for why Cell/trunks (planned to) travel back a year before even frieza arrived, that's because trunks, as mentioned in my first sentence, did not know how time travel works. In the MAIN timeline, gohan asks him a question that makes him REALIZE how time travel works. In the unseen timeline, trunks likely didn't have gohan to ask him, and therefore foolishly still thought stopping the androids early would work. basically, trunks is an idiot. maybe that doesn't seem believable, but this is the same trunks that came back after giving goku medicine, and didn't realize that didn't change anything until gohan asked him.
Trunks being contradictory with time travel is explainable as him initially being misinformed. Nobody Bulma knew has ever gone back in time so maybe they assumed it worked on Back to the Future rules. But when their timeline didn't change it proved the multiverse theory of time travel was right
Greetings my friends from beyond and within the grave. In the short time in which we inhabit this world, It would be my honor to offer you a new life with Christ. Let today be the day you begin✝️
No gods who can see all of the universe noticed broly on planet vampa but that isnt cause they didnt explain that it was a concious writting choice and mfs like to pretend there are "holes" in the plot smh 🙄
Cell was completely surprised he could regenerate from a self destruct. I really don't believe cell understood what his body was capable of after his two new forms. I took it as his understanding was of his imperfect specs.
Cell was born the ultimate biological weapon so in theory, he has the most potential I am not surprised if we go by your comment, Cell’s design was to perfect his flaws over course of time to truly be perfect. Being able to surpass the Sayian’s zenkai and Namekian regeneration makes sense I can also see his cells having life of their own similar to Frieza’s ability to survive horrific injuries despite not being able to regeneration Canon or not, Frieza has amazing endurance.
The first two are not plot holes, they are clearly showing that Trunks does not fully understand how the multiverse works when he first appears. Both in that he was unaware of Instantaneous Movement and that he was unaware of his future not changing due to actions in the past.
That's what I was going to say. Even in the anime Trunks learned of the branching timelines when he returned when the Androids arrived. That was when he discovered these actions did not change his future.
This is not a plot hole but something that have bothered some people about the cell saga and that is how the characters are able to end the saga whatever they want but they just continue to make it even longer. 1- The z fighters could have ended the saga if they destroy the androids before they are awaken. 2- Piccolo could've ended the saga if he one shot cell. 3- Vegeta could've ended the saga, but he didn't because he is a saiyan. 4- Gohan could've ended the saga but instead he wasted time by playing with him. 5- When cell lost 18, the other z fighters could've kill him but they were watching the fight when in fact they could've end the saga.
@Abdullahi Farah I don't think so, if all of the z fighters group attacked semi perfect cell in all directions, then he wouldn't even have a single cell left to regenerate
The first one isn't a plot hole around all. It is before he ever went back to the Future. So he didn't know that changing past doesn't change HIS present. He was still under the impression that helping Goku will help out His time as well
@@TheSodaShop That’s not even how you interpreted it. That’s literally EXACTLY how Toriyama originally wrote it. When Trunks comes back to the main timeline, he expresses clear confusion that nothing had changed.
But the problem is that trunks had to recognize at the time that his past is different from where he is right now. I can still roughly remember him saying that Goku would arrive on Earth 3 hours later and defeat Freeza. By then some people will die in this time. Trunks wanted to prevent this. So that means that in his past, Goku arrived on earth 3 hours later and wasn't able to teleport or he was asleep and missed rescuing the people or whatever. Trunks should have known from the beginning that Goku can teleport and didn't show up 3 hours later and Freeza and his troops caused chaos during that time. So that means that he should already know at the time that there are two different events. One where Goku could have teleported himself directly to Freeza and one where he couldn't or didn't do it and only arrived 3 hours later.
I always wondered whatever happened to the timeline Cell came from. Poor Bulma, even her only son has died. She's all alone with only the surviving human population. That can also explain why Beerus and Whis oppose time travel. Creating new timelines is like Jenga. Taking away the foundation and adding new layers will only cause the whole thing to collapse.
yeah will whis and beerus can f off trunks did time travel to safe lfie there is noting worng with safeng lfies not triyng to safe lifes wodo make you in evil pcie shit like beerus noting olapes lame
And *I* always wondered why they had to create a whole new timeline to send Trunks and Mai to, instead of just sending them to the preexisting Cell timeline. Unless both Toriyama AND Toei forgot about that timeline. Even though they love to dip back into the past to milk nostalgia.
@@Ms.FortuneTeller not it’s the one where 17-18 were defeated and cell killed Trunks to go back into our timeline. Funnily enough, we know that Trunks’ androids aren’t as strong as our androids. So we can maybe conclude that that cell wouldn’t be as strong as our cell. But the cell in our timeline isn’t our cell, it’s cell from another universe. Our cell got destroyed with Geros lab. We already know that base cell was around as powerful (without feeding) as Android 17 of our universe so I’m just wondering how powerful (if our cell would have been more powerful) would our cell be ya know? Would SSJ2 even cut it
@@hotnessgaming1396 I'm not sure that the future Androids were weaker. IIRC in one of the versions (I think it's a Trunks chapter in the manga or something, I can't recall), 17 told Gohan that they were holding back the entire time (they were at half power at most), right before they killed him. Trunks didn't know this detail. Also, he can't sense their power. So it's probably less that the present Androids were stronger and more that they didn't hold back as much from the start, since the Z-Fighters were stronger and more prepared (still weaker than the Androids overall).
About the " Don't tell my parents or I may never exist" thing. I believe he didn't know any better because it was his first Timetravel, not his third, where he explains everything, and Multiverse theory was to him a theory and nothing else
@@il3fortunato664 This doesn't make sense to me. Why is Trunks being their son obligatory? What about them being related makes it "for the plot?" I'd get it if Trunks were future Gohan in disguise or something but it's honestly something I didn't expect first reading it.
@@drumo2273 Because Vegeta was the only Saiyan on Earth at that time and Bulma was the only woman that was important at the time, you're saying "but she was dating Yamcha and was her boyfriend" and I say yes you're right. Toriyama just make Yamcha a clown, completely ruining the character and being unlikable so that Bulma can merry Vegeta that was the man that was living on Earth and adapting to live as a human being also the only Pure Saiyan Warrior stronger in the group. That make Trunks their son for sake of plot, nothing else.
@@il3fortunato664 I get what you mean now, and I do agree that Yamcha was clowned for no good reason. Still I think using "obligatory" and "for the plot" makes Trunks' existence sound too much like the stars had to align for it to happen. Bulma and Yamcha broke up and she got with Vegeta, that's all there is to it.
They establish in both the Namek and Sayian Sagas that the energy required to regrow limbs can take you out of the fight, to the point where Piccolo would rather fight Raditz with one arm than regrow his. I always headcanoned that Cell was surprised because after draining Piccolo's arm he either loses from the martial arts disadvantage or takes a second to regrow his arm and has his power level drop like a rock. Unfortunately for Cell, Piccolo has recently fused with Kami so regen is much less taxing. If that isn't enough, Piccolo only regrows his arm once before on Earth and we know the bots didn't make it to Namek. It's very possible Dr. Gero's computer never got data on the technique as it didn't happen during a fight, especially since the flashback panels imply they got Piccolo's DNA during his fight with Nappa, when he didn't regenerate.
That's what I was thinking too. I really think cell's knowledge of what the zfighters can do isn't based on just having their DNA, but it's based on whatever data was able to be collected. That would really help us to understand things like why he was surprised at Piccolo regenerating, why he uses Destructo Disc instead of Friezas death Saucer, etc.
@@SethirothGaming it also explains the multiform technique, because if I recall manga canon correctly, Tien isn't a part of him, and Piccolo only uses that ability in filler.
Regarding the fact that Imperfect Cell didn't seem to realise that Piccolo would regenerate, due to his imperfect form it's possible the knowledge was missing or forgotten. I mean he grew up in a test tube tank listening to Dr. Gero's prerecorded messages until he outgrew the tank right? Then later regresses back into "larval form", is it possible in some hairbrained way that Cell's knowledge diminished during this regression and regrowth? That would be a really stupid explanation though, I always just assumed that Imperfect Cell was kinda what his name implies - Imperfect, meaning he was not above forgetting critical information when in a situation where he feels he is not threatened in any way (i.e. when Piccolo submits).
I always felt as though Cell himself didn’t even know he had regenerative abilities until he saw Piccolo do it. At that point Piccolo had only regenerated his arm against Raditz so he hadn’t demonstrated the power much for Gero to study it.
I like how TFS addressed all these things you mentioned including the multiple timelines and the regeneration part. (Cell regenerated after being blasted by Goku’s Kamehameha) Piccolo: I’m pretty sure I can’t do that Cell: We’ll figure that out later..
I think Trunks setting the time machine wrong by 3 years could be a fine tunning issue. For example say I need to calibrate the Time Machine by using dials. First dial selects a range of 10 years. Next dial further breaks down those 10 years into smaller chunks. Next dial breaks that year down to months and so on. When Cell arrives he interupts Trunks before he could fully set the time machine. Thus Cell arrives too early.
Trunks always knew that going back in time wasn’t going to change his own timeline. He had always heard how amazing Goku was from his mom, and felt that if he could learn how Goku solved the Androids, he could apply it to his own timeline. Also, he was worried that he would not be born in the abstract sense. That this timeline’s Trunks would not be born and he was worried for a fellow timeline self.
Well, yes, that’s the rewrite Toriyama used to explain the inconsistencies he was creating, thus creating another inconsistency. But when Trunks first showed up, it’s pretty obvious he is referring to himself, and implying that we’re working with Back to the Future style time travel.
@@damkylan3 You also have to remember this was untest technology for hail marry. It's possible that Bulma doesnt know multiworld theory or if there is one set timeline until the switch is flipped.
If that's the case, it really was one GIANT risk. Can you imagine if he returns to find Bulma no longer existing or disappears altogether himself due to the effects?
The Android/Cell saga is my favorite arc of the story as well. If a story introduces time travel, it gets my hyped. Even if there are plotholes, i toss it up to time travel shenanigans This arc is also the best because a lot of different characters got to play a part this go around it felt like
I love time travel, but it's seldom done well and free of paradoxes. Ironically, Toriyama went with one of the most stable structs, multiple timelines. I've been making time maps of various franchises and giving logics to how they work. DBZ's is one of the more complex ones. I'd love to see your mappings for this.
@@ultraexcalibur1728 he definitely didn't go in the chamber if imperfect cell even before drinking people was able to kill him, and you mean the shut Down device Bulma made? Thoses are only theories
@@ultraexcalibur1728 I said he trunks definitely didn't go into the chamber if the weakest version of imperfect cell was able to kill him, are we clear.
I think the trunks not being born was more of him joking around about not being born in the present timeline. I dont think he was thinking it would affect his existence. He knew he didnt want his parents to be weirded out by the fact and would then not have another version of him be born lol
The second isn’t a plot hole or an inconsistency. The first time we see Trunks (this Trunks) is the first time anyone has EVER time traveled. And till someone time travels, no matter what theories someone may have had previously as to what of the 3 most prominent timeline thoughts are, you wouldn’t know for sure till it happened. So when Trunk came back home, and Goku was still dead, but more importantly when Bulma still thinks Goku killed Frieza let’s Trunks know 100% how it works. So when he speaks to Krillin later, it’s not a theoretical anymore, he knows how time travel works. The biggest is definitely Cell’s head blowing up. There is no explanation for that.
1) Definitely. The Instant Transmission thing makes no sense because Bulma was present during that fight, and should have known about IT. Which Goku also went out of his way to demonstrate and explain to them all afterwards. 2) I definitely found Trunks' phrasing weird, but I always interpreted it as him not wanting main timeline's version of himself not to be born. Which is reasonable. 3) This is yet another issue with discovery writing, especially when telling a time travel story. Toriyama got a LOT of grief from his editor, but without that we would have gotten 19 & 20 as the final bosses. Yikes... 4) TotallyNotMark made a video explaining how bad Cell's exposition drop was an a narrative level. I recommend it. Basically the point is that Cell was very creepy and enigmatic, then he just explained everything about himself in the most obtuse monologue ever, destroying any element of mystery and fear factor. And yes, it's also continuity swiss cheese... Side note, interesting how Cell is the one who creates the main timeline. 5) People should just accept that there are plot holes and move on. Cells regeneration, and knowledge about his regeneration is inconsistent. He even seemingly forgets that Piccolo can do it too. My plotholes are: 1) Why does Bulma know where Gero's lab is in the main timeline, but not the future? Trunks said that if he knew, he'd be "paying Gero a visit instead of Goku", so how come his Bulma never told him where to find it? TFS Even pokes fun at this one.. 2) Why is Future Gohan so weak compared to Main Gohan who had far less time, training, and motivation? After several years of battle, he's weaker than two weaker versions of 17 & 18 who never use more than half their power to fight him, at least in the manga. In the anime, he does considerably better against the both of them despite their infinite energy, but still, his present timeline counterpart would have easily destroyed them after coming out of the chamber. And why didn't Popo tell them about the chamber anyway? Why didn't Goku contact them from other world? Why didn't King Kai contact the Namekians and ask them to make a wish to revive Piccolo and the others? In my opinion, there are many ways the outcome could have been altered and prevented, if everything was written consistently. But every time I mention it, I get a laundry list of excuses and contrivances that basically amount to fans rewriting the story retroactively to make sense if it.
Don’t have the answers to most of these plotholes but I can come up with a good excuse why Future Gohan isn’t that strong, he merely lacked guidance from experienced fighters like Goku or Piccolo so that may be the reasoning why he wasn’t able to tap into any of his potential, he just didn’t have the right mindset compared to his present timeline counterpart.
@@vex8127 But I think having so many more years should make up for the lack of proper training, not to mention, his anger should be much greater than Main timeline Gohan's was, due to the androids laying waste to everything and everyone. Even if he has a few disadvantages compared to his counterpart, there are other factors that should do quite a bit to make up for them. Moreover, the lack of guidance is a plothole in and of itself, given that there was nothing stopping the deceased fighters from contacting Gohan, and giving him some useful pointers. In fact, we know it's possible for the dead to visit the living with permission, and for the living to travel to the Other World. Kami, Fortuneteller Baba, and Goku all do this frequently. Why wasn't Gohan allowed to train in the Other World or in the Time Chamber? It already doesn't make sense for him to be on his own. But he should still be able to somewhat catch up with his counterpart after all that time and training...
The instant trasmission thing may just be that she didnt think of mentioning that specificaly. To be fair, it has been years and it wasnt all that relevant
@@DM-Oz I'm not quite convinced that she told Trunks all the details about how Frieza's invasion, but left out the part where Goku appeared to stop them by teleporting. And if that were the case, the story still has to tell us why that crucial information was omitted. I can come up with reason after reason for many of the gaps in the story, but those are just things I told myself retroactively to fix those gaps. That doesn't fix the story - Especially when everyone else comes up with a different explanation - Which is telling...
@@AndrewAce. yeah I never noticed that Bulma never told trunks about I.T but I chalk it up as since toriyama didn't reveal it yet bulma wouldn't have known
6:16 trunks asking goku to not reveal his lineage is not a plot hole because at THAT moment he is unaware of the fact time traveling makes a new timeline. He’s just making a guess and he was wrong.
Remember how Trunks was too slow to fight Cell when he got buff… and then it’s never mentioned again and later on waaaay buffer characters have no problem out speeding and keeping up with slimmer character? I do. I remember.
I assume it's deeper than just bigger muscles. But how they use their power to do that. On the other hand, he would have been damned useful during SP Cell and Gohan's beam duel. What matters speed when you're not moving?
@@DanielMWJ Nah, it’s just another ill planned excuse to wait for Goku some more. Remember when Nappa was faster than all the Z Fighters except for Goku despite being way larger than them? I remember. What about Fat Buu’s speed feats? Broly?
@@VidelxSpopovich I meant for Watsonian reasoning, not Doylist. :p Doylist reasoning can get rather cringeful in Dragonball with how transparently it shows the author's hand. As for the others' speed? Different transformations. As I said, the only sensible conclusion is that grade 3 bulked up in a way that lowered agility and speed in exchange for more power and strength. Not because bulking up like that alone does so beyond the obvious physical impediment, but with how the ki was being used in that transformation.
