A lot of people complained about the M2 being way too heavy and sluggish, especially the brakes on the standard M2 are gone after 2 laps on a small circuit
Maybe, but a soft brake peddle is usually an indication of hot/overheated fluid, not worn brakes. It is possible that it was hot lapped and Matt wasn't aware before getting in.
@@Cobrastarzz1 Yeah. Obviously anything break related will probably get voided. The manufacturer has to specifically be able to prove that your modification is what caused the problem for the warranty to be void (USA Law). This is why exhaust mods are usually never a problem but tunes are.
Own a M2C, brakes are good at stopping, but terrible feel. Feels like stepping on a brick even with trackpads/fluid etc. Swapped to AP Racing brakes, feels much more natural and better. Stock pads with the 2NH they fade after 5-6 laps on laguna. Owned an E36 M3 in the past, stock brakes on that had great feel and with PFC08 stopped on a dime. Not sure why BMW's are so shit stock these days.
Matt: “I just came from a bunch of mid-engine cars.” Also Matt: “The nose feels heavy.” Gee do you think there’s a correlation? (I own a Porsche not a BMW btw)
Shareef Alsayed definitely something is up with that car. I have been repairing and selling BMWs independently for almost 30 years and am very familiar with all their M cars as well as the rest. I have never heard so many negative things about that car. Last M2 I had damn brakes would throw you through the window. Also parting them out makes for a serious brake upgrade on the e46 M3 which in my opinion is the best M car ever built. I have driven pretty much every M car that’s been sold in the US and Europe. Had a fair share of grey market cars. Euro cars imported to here. The only M that I can think of that I haven’t driven is the M1. Driven a 3.0 CSL. A good friend has one and it’s a sweet ride. He bought the car for $400 and had been trying to buy it for 20 years. We got it 100% mechanical a couple of years ago, and have been slowly redoing the body bc parts are hard to find for that car, and we have just waited for the parts to appear and all the body panels, complete door head light buckets and a few other parts we needed for $600. We have been working on it as we can. Fabricating the replacement rocker corners and other misc rust spots that are easy to fab up. It’s way cheaper than buying a whole new panel for a small peace of it. I worked in NASCAR for 5+ years and learned a lot about many different things. I was 18 and it was like getting paid to learn.
It's even completely against the previous one-take they did on this channel of an M2 Comp with a tune. That car had stock brakes and Zach commented on how touchy they were and how much braking ability they had. Zach had a very different response to that car than Matt did with this. Could be driving on street vs. track and pushing the car at 7/10th's vs. 9/10ths.
Chris Harris loves pretty much all cars lol and an adept driver/ drifter. This guy is more of a street/grip enthusiast. He needs a real track weapon to float his boat lol 😂
@@Realpaul2k GT350 is a larger car and I believe the footprint (track, wheelbase etc) are larger. > weight is fine, as long as its spread out more. There is extensive literature on the relationship between footprint , CG and grip levels, load transfer etc.
maclmatias There are people disappointed with it. They just don’t talk about it. BMW will never have them back at press events if they speak poorly about any of their cars.
1. You're right, it should be lighter. 2. You can't drive an M2 after driving a 911 & Corvette. 3. The M2 is a street car, not a race car, and thus is out of its element here. 4. Your press car may have had some issues.
Yeah im driving one and what you're saying is right on the spot. The car isnt sluggish or breaks "bad" in any way. That car from what i can see in the video probably has break fluid problem. And i wouldnt compare this to a 911 since its not even in the same category. The car feels heavy because hes not using it properly, its faster to drift it in the corners xD
Sounds like Matt's full of shit. They probably have an agenda for the car of the year award placing and Matt can't say the BMW is better then other certain cars.
@@user-js2dr9gv1u They're both more special than a M2. I'm in F80/82 club, quite a lot of members who can afford higher monthly expenditure on a car tend to move to 911 which is considered the pinnacle of sports car. Of course M2 would feel inferior to a Lotus around the track. M2 is nearly twice the weight of a Lotus. It is unfair comparison since BMW never designed M2 to be a track car.
Turn off the stability control Matt, MDM mode =/= everything off. MDM will let you slide the car a bit, but it's still under the purview of computer nannies. As soon as you do any sort of lift off the gas, it kicks in with the stability control. It's great if you just want to hit an onramp sideways, but for an actual race track, you need to turn it off completely.
So, this is an interesting review. I own a 2020 M2 competition and I do agree that the car is 300 pounds too heavy. I drove my car in the Alpine country as well as the dolomites as well as the Nurburgring. And, The excess weight did manifest itself profoundly. Regarding the brakes, however, are very good, in my opinion. They held up exceptionally well for me at the Ring. Overall, the car is still a more pleasant driving experience than the M4.
@@8teate With a full tank and 80kg ballast on the driver seat I am at ca. 1627kg while we were corner weighing the car. I have a CF hood, Mperf rims, the standard brakes (the US brakes are actually the upgraded brakes in the EU but are a massive 35lbs heavier than standard, without delivering additional braking performance) . Will continue to upgrade the exhaust (-20kg), the seats (-30kg's), a CF roof (-5kg's) and possibly installing a set of Essex AP racing brakes (another 10kgs to be saved). I am at minus ca. 25 kgs now, to add those required 75kg's of savings is almost impossible with a full interior to be honest. And even then I will still be at ca. 1.550kg's still. Yes she is heavy....
@@rubbermoetroken Dont forgett the starterbattery. I wish it was direct swap from M4 but its not :( Do you have a thread somewhere I can follow your diet?
Hey Matt, I remember you did a track one take of a stock manual F80 M3 before. You were very very fond of that car on track. Essentially the M2 should be that but in a more spiky, smaller wheel base M Car. Could you explain why the M3 was such a hit and the M2 seems to be such a miss for you on track? Perhaps new sports cars ruined your perception of what used be fun before, isn't so any more? Cheers (big fan).
Having almost driven both (stock manual F82 M4 and 410ish hp DCT Dinan M235i), even the M235 was more enjoyable drive for me. The M4 had too much grip for stock power level and as you mentioned, larger size. Fair warning, a 6MT e46 M3 is what I want a car to feel like, if that helps at all... Not sure if this was just the Dinan car, but I will say that after driving the M4 I was left wanting much more.
I'd say that this particular car has had some abuse before Matt drove it. I have this same car, with the same brakes and yes, stock fluid does give a very soft pedal pretty quickly. If anything, my car feels overbaked with fresh/upgraded brake fluid. Then there's the side-by-side comparison with mid-engined cars :)
@@leshkin Yeah, not sure what Matt drove that day but somehow I would have thought I'd walk away with a smile after having tried one. Need to find one to drive close to home. Even the non-comp M2 seems like it could be very fun.
Smaller footprint (probably track, wheelbase) but similar weight. Maybe higher CG or worse weight distribution on top of that. I've drive the GT350 which is heavier but feels much more balanced Vs the M2 Comp.
To be fair Matt, as you come into the end of the second lap @ 4:36, one can sense some engine and brake stress in the car. The guys driving before you must have really thrashed the M2...
@@seancoakley5371 I use MDM when I'm on the street and he definitely had it on. You could tell when it kicked in the entire car vibrated and helped bring him back. Gotta hold that button down haha
@@ddabby346 yes and I am telling you to drive one, because weight isn't such an issue given the ample power. It's no Lotus, but neither is it a Lotus :)
michael lozano I kind of agree, I would say his calibration is a little off as he only owns mid-engine cars, expect the Vanquish which ain’t a sports car
@@nathanwabre that and I honestly think C8 Corvette screwed up the playing field. All of these other sports cars are now up against a superior layout with similar or greater horse power figures. The C8 makes just about any two seat sports car look less desirable.
L T S gt350 has major engine failure and to make matters worse company like ford and chevy are horrible to deal with. Imagine having your engine blow and fighting to get them to fix under warranty because you put an aftermarket speaker in the trunk?
@@Loko_The_Savage Those cars are worth nothing already so depreciation shouldnt even be in the conversation. And when has Chevy or Ford been know for reliability lol
Just picked up 2020 M2C- the brakes feel like my face gong to rip off. It’s crazy how sensitive they are to respond. This car may have been beaten up before had drove it.
I just went back and watched the track review of the 2016 BMW M2 and it's like night and day on the results. Which one would you buy without driving both cars? I'm thinking the m2 with some boltons and save some cash.
Frank m002 the deal breaker for me is the fact the M2 Comp can’t run an 18” square setup for wheels and tires because of those massive front brakes. For a car that’s going to see a lot of track time not being able to run square or rotate is unfortunate
@@humbler1 while it does require 19s to clear the front brakes it can still run square, 265/30R19 on 9.5" ET28 wheels is recommended for track use. On stagger you can run 295 on the rear.
@@TheSmokingTire just doesn't make sense that you had a blast in the supra sliding it around @3400lbs. You'd think its brakes would be the soft ones after a few laps
What did you just drive last? Could explain the less than fond memories of your first go in the M2c. And honestly, how many buyers will actually track that car?
I agree with Matt. I drove both the M2C and M4C back to back on track and the M2 brakes are definitely softer and not confidence inspiring. M4C was a lot better, in general sharper and had more steering feel. The steering feel on the M2C was dead and fairly light, however, in terms of pushing to the limit M2C is definitely more balanced and easier to drive.
I'm guessing it had standard street brake pads. Pads can totally change the feel and you really need some proper track focused pads to have fun on a racetrack. Street pads don't cut it.
Every BMW fan wanted this car to be sort of like the old E46 M3. Similar dimensions. I havent driven it yet, cant comment on it. Cars are heavier and softer today, thats just how it is.
That's exactly what I thought, brave words... the fanboys are coming... and I agree totally with "placeholder" it was looking over its shoulder at the E46 which was a legend...all the safety and electronics, gadgets today bloat modern cars weight. Some almost drive or park themselves.. :-) it is crazy...
I own the OG M2, not been on track but on the road I very much love how it drives and responds. The back steps out in a progressive manner and for day today driving it is plenty fast. It sounds better than the comp for sure. It is imho better than its rivals for driving pleasure, for me it is more enjoyable than a RS3, A45 AMG etc so for its class of car and price bracket it's ticks all the boxes.
I own an M240. Fantastic street car, so-so track car. Heavy like the M2 of course. The 2 series is built like a tank, solid and safe. Doors close like a bank vault. BMW built it first and foremost for quick, responsive steering and fun driving dynamics but also for safety, durability and ride quality. Any weight reduction would compromise the latter. Consumer Reports top-rated sports car over 50K!
Agreed. I picked up an M240 back in March (had an M235i before that -- couldn't find an M2C to buy...) and it definitely shines on the street. For me, it's a pretty much perfect daily driver -- it's quick and nimble for when you want to play around, but it's comfortable on longer trips and definitely feels sturdy. Plus, it's fast enough that it surprises the shit out of people at stop lights. :p
Great honest review....One of the reasons why I got the new supra for my new daily and to take to the Track occasionally because of the light weight and balance. BMW M division is going in the wrong direction but certainly not the new Toyota platform.
The S55 is too heavy, that’s one of the reasons I decided to get the 2018, my goal now is to shave about 100LBS from wheels, battery and anything else..
Dumb reviewer. Drives a lotus and a 911 and then thinks a street car half the price of the above is too heavy. Thinks rotor size has anything to do with brake feel and sharpness. Even the stock size brakes stop an M5. The m2c needs a track set up on brakes or they cook
I think the problem is MF is acclimated to modern sports cars which are very easy to drive near the limit. The M2C is not easy to drive near the limit. It requires quick hands, smooth inputs, and good "feel". It will bite you in the ass if you don't know how to drive it. It requires smooth inputs to be fast and flowing, analogous to a motorcycle at the limit. The fact of the matter is, MF is not a good driver. His abilities are average at best. You need to be an above average driver to extract performance from the M2C.
I drove the M2C recklessly and also buying one, I totally disagree with the brakes comment, you drove a press car who had a tough life already (im guessing thats why chris harris said the brakes for the A45s were bad as well and faded after a lap or so, i mean cmon). The M2’s brakes are reaaaally good, one of its highlights actually, the car also feels perfectly balanced and it does not feel heavy at all. The seating position is indeed a bit too high but the eletric steering isnt lifeless like chris harris and other reviewers said it is, its actually very good, you can feel the whole chassis moving and bumps through the wheel, M engineers surely made it feel like a hydraulic system, it does turn ins perfectly, I think this reviewer is a noob or something, the front nose just goes where you point it to. For the money its the sportiest thing you can get today, this is what the M3 shouldve been.
Im no reviewer nor another beamer fanboy in this comment section, but Ive had a lot of amazing cars in my garage (such as the F12, GT63 S, Targa GTS 991.2, S63 AMG, A45 AMG, etc) so trust me on this one, the M2C is simply amazing and I cant stop thinking about it, if you’re interested simply buy one and don’t think twice, Ive driven a stage 2 C63 S as well and it didnt bring the adrenaline up like the beamer did. Just mind the S55’s spun crank hub problem ;)
Interesting review Matt, but I do have to agree that those brakes have probably seen a better days, specially in with that weight and heavy usage by the media.. Well, now on to the the M2 CS, to see if BMW has really stepped up their game on this little beauty! .. Keep up the great work Matt!
Matt being the mid/rear engine snob that he is was destined not to like this car, especially after jumping out of a handful of some of the latest and greatest and into this.
You hit the nail on the head. Most people who give this car a great review own a cheap car, so the M2 feels amazing to their daily driver. Matt is used to driving excellent cars so the M2 didn’t excite him.
405 hp. Slightly heavier at 3500+ . Similar numbers to my 90s ZR-1. 30 years later you’d think they could figure out something lighter or more powerful or faster. The ediff is good but it’s twitchy like that because it’s working as designed. I could slide my ZR-1 around that entire track a clutch style diff makes it easy . When I play around with my M4 it’s just not the same. It’s constantly trying to give me grip which makes it twitchy .. but essentially effective in its purpose.
Baby Shark the OG M2 which I have is praised because it is very well balanced and not as heavy as this Comp. you can get it to much lighter with Carbon bits but it will be pricey. Like the fenders, trunk, etc. Overall, the OG M2 is definitely the one you want plus it sounds better than the S55. I have driven the M2 Comp and he is spot on with his assessment and verdict on the comp.
M2 and M2C might be fast on the track, but the 1M is the best modern BMW in terms of pure driving pleasure, in the video that snap and sudden grip back feeling at the corner exit came from the active differential on the M2C/M2, I hate it, it just make the car behave against a good driver’s instinct, the 1M is way more linear and you chew the tires for longer to find the optimum grip by your self under that situation
Felix I am not talking about what seems like the power cut on the corner exit, I am taking about the entry phase when the driver counter-steer with his instinct but the car grips with the help from active-diff, try drift both M2C and 1M and you will see what I mean, I personally dislike the behavior of the active-diff on the M2C, F90 M5 also has active diff but with 2WD modes it feels much more predictable and linear
ZZGTKING interesting. I haven’t had my m2c on the track yet, but in small doses, the oversteer doesn’t seem too snappy compared to my last car, a 350z which had just a viscous lsd. I’ll get the m2c out onto a track or a skid pad for some actual drifting and see how it feels. Probably won’t be able to convince anyone to let me drift their 1m unfortunately, but I can always hope!
Felix Thanks mate, looking forward to hear your feedback, also there is one thing you will find very interesting is that with the active diff when you drift with the M2C, the car eager to rotate around itself, makes it always going tighter and tighter, not very easy to hold a long drift with a very big steering lock, but this characteristic definitely helps for putting down the power harder and earlier when you want fast lap times.
Now I want to see you drive the 240i modifies with a tuned b58 and supporting mods on track , that’s 60kg lighter at the front end. Will be a massive difference for a fraction of the cost.
The car has been beat on by how many drivers before you. Of course the brakes are the first thing to show and issue. Especially brake fluid will get soft after boiling at the track with just one driver. Swap out the fluid.
Who ever is looking after this car it’s their responsibility to take this kind of stuff into consideration. The car has to be completely reset before a new driver gets into the driver seat.
Interesting take on the M2C. I'm still in the market for one, I guess weight reduction, upgraded suspension, sticky tires and a brake kit would make the car "whole."
Alexander Briggs the M2 CS offers no weight savings whatsoever, it’s effectively an M2 Competition with more Alcantara in the interior and almost every m-performance part fitted as standard but the car is almost twice the price of the competition. I like the CS but it won’t be twice the car.
@@ShogunsDojo "The BMW M2 CS uses a lot of carbon fiber reinforced plastic (CFRP). The German automaker uses the material for the front splitter, roof, rear spoiler, M twin-stalk exterior mirrors, rear diffuser, and hood, which weighs half that of a traditional steel hood. The material finds its way inside, too, shaving six pounds (2.7 kilograms) from the center console." - Motor1, first article you find upon doing a Google search
@@Briggsian The CS is a little lighter but not that much lighter. The culprit is apparently the suspension which is adjustable, unlike the suspension in the M2 Competition. Still, i'd expect it to be quite a bit faster, in this case the extra weight is low to the ground and the better suspension is also helping the car go faster. It's a lot like how the regular M2 is lighter than the M2 comp.....because it doesn't have all that extra cooling and the insanely large brakes. Sometimes the extra weight is worth the trade off.
Alexander Briggs I was aware, but thanks for sharing that information all the same, as Felix said the adaptive suspension negates much of these savings. When I looked in the UK press release for the M2 CS they claimed power to weight ratios (kg/hp) of 3.44 for the manual and 3.50 for the dct. Some quick maths makes that a curb weight of 1527kg for the manual and 1554 kg for the dct, I’m almost certain these figures match the competition. I think a revised passive setup would have been best, it’s the most hardcore version of the car so just set it up for aggressive driving and save the weight. They could have even used the m-performance coilovers so users can make their own adjustments.
IVe been to thermal for a BMW Driving event, those test cars are BEAT everyday and are essentially wrung out until they break. Willing to say that those pads are fairly worn as were the ones on the M6 I had the pleasure of sliding off track and popping the tires on LOL
Hi Matt, you need to be more aggressive with the brakes. They work totally fine. You just need to stand on them! First time I seen this in an M3 driven by a BMW driver it all came together for me.
I’ve been shopping four seat sports cars and I find them heavy and boring compared to two seaters. A lot of reviewers would have you believe that various M sedans/coupes are just as good as sports cars. Glad that we have Matt who is willing to say they’re not.
While I agree these aren't very good track cars, especially if you just came out of other much more competent cars, something has to be wrong with the brakes...they were violently effective on the one I drove, and held up very well through the session.
Most people will use this for roll racing on highways so aslong as it handles decent and has over 350hp nothing else really matters.It looks good and goes good and sounds good so that's that.Certain cars aren't really track weapons just track orientated
The Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE weighs 100lbs more but it’s significantly larger than this M2 so take that as you will. The M2 is heavy. Also the S55 is not the best M motor... I prefer the old N55 (which isn’t an M motor) because it’s sounds better and the torque is less of a light switch. Easier to modulate and add power. Sure it’ll drift, but it not required to get around quickly, unlike this M2C... 10/10 would buy OG M2 with a manual 🥰
Matt just demonstrated why huge rear wings are immediately added, for aftermarket set up, of very nose heavy cars for track days. For the road the M2 comp is quite good, specially for the money (Corvette C8 and Camaro ZL1 being far superior in performance for the buck).
Really think your feeling major change from rear to mid engine....than too front...be mindfully present....you owe your followers genuine unbiased reporting
Lol I love how hard people defend the M2. I was super unimpressed when I drove one but let some journalist who really doesn’t know say good stuff about it and then it’s suddenly god’s machine. Now sure it all comes down to opinion but the car is definitely over praised and under performs for its price.
Dude Shark I’ve driven several. The driving dynamic was very similar to my E46 M3, just a lot more powerful with better brakes. Did you drive a car with DCT or Manual? A Manual really livens these cars up. No car is perfect, and this car definitely isn’t an exception. But this is a really fun car for the price.
If this is the case, the differentiating point between this and the rc-f doesn’t exist anymore. This car is heavy no doubt and Matt even got great initial turn in at many corners but I honestly think it’s the chassis that’s letting him down the ability of the car to put power down depends on our right foot and how fast we’re going at the limit of tires but the m2 inherently wants to slide the m2 competition isn’t any different. The brakes are something that is new, up until this point no one has really talked about the braking ability of this car, and I now think that no one really wanted to. This is a interesting review of the car nonetheless, thanks Matt.
I own the normal M2. It felt balanced albeit lacking some top end grunt which is hardly noticeable on the road. I drove the M2c and the first thing that caught my attention was the lack of nimbleness the original version had due to its marginally increased weight. It is a pity because apart from that, the s55 is a gem in every way (if you discount the atrocious sound).
@@machtschnell7452 Ja sure... $65k? Affordable, but is the Supra now a better option, and if not what (C8)? I don't like the idea of a CF car because I'm not convinced the plastic resin is the right choice to bond layers of carbon weave, especially if they are drilling holes in the weave. In twenty years there will be carbon-carbon printed super materials, and that will be dope AF; at least I hope there will be.
