I disagree, when I started ESO. There was an ESO fam. They helped me learn PVP and PVE even when I was utter trash. Then about 2 years after it became free/low price. I constantly am bombarded by people with strong biases and people who expect their payments to make them great at PVP. My personal experience is that people from other MMOs are coming in. This is influencing ZoS to remove the games' identity in order to gain more profit and copy the systems of other MMOs. ZoS has broken their own system in my opinion by adding a 6th, 7th, 8th and possibly 9th skill to the game that costs NOTHING to the player. I don't blame anybody for buying the new chapters to gain power over others. That's just human nature. The thing I hate is that they are able to do it at no cost at all. In PVE I don't care about that. However in PVP I do. My solution is to make proc sets cost resources, this will bring balance to PVP. ZoS can always go back and tweak the dungeons to the new DPS cap reality. DPS is a number that is there to make us feel better. It's a relative number. ZoS controls the time. Yet people will go crazy when they see their DPS go down. The next thing will be a new slot to equip an "aura" and mythics will have special skills to work with these auras. Healing auras, Tanking auras, and DPS auras. Boy won't dps go up! not only that in PVP it will be crazy. In about 2 or 3 years ESO will start focusing on the players they have. Few new and mid tier players will be staying. There will be few who get to the top tier but that's to replace the one thats retiring. I was a fool to think ESO would break the cycle of all MMO lifes. They follow blizzards plan. I will NEVER forget the woman who helped me get blacksmithing, woodworking, clothing to 50.
@@RatusMax tbt when I returned to the game after quite some time I got greeted with a couple hundred k from a guildie and antiquity farming tips. But the toxic assholes in pugs were ubiquitous at least since like 2016 (I'm an og, remember the mess the whole game was before Dark Brotherhood). Maybe it was different on the NA idk, and then again, I've taken a break since autumn after Summerset or so. One thing is true though - nobody said "ESO Fam" lol
@@Sk0lzky It's good to hear people are still helping. When he used the term "eso fam" I he was referring to how the community was behaving and not it as a term. So I said in the past it WAS like an eso family. With many in the community willing to help. I started playing during the time subscription was switching to optional. I paid for the 3 months before the moment. I was in pugs and even when I was acting like a lil a-hole. (I thought I knew the game mechanics I beat molag bal!!) The VR 16s didn't outright throw me out of the party. They actually taught me how to heal and tank. So I've adopted that patience. I will never forget when newer players were still able to do DLC dungeons. I stayed in the dungeon explaining the mechanics in the dungeon and that they shouldn't get too mad as it was one of the most difficult dungeons at the time. (wgt) They got frustrated and quit the game after 5 tries. They said the game was trash and a waste of money. Of course ZoS changed that in a future patch.
I wouldn't say the toxicity we have now was part of the game from day one. Sure, there were always those who were jealous and didn't grant others the success and achievements they had, but there are still plenty of "old" people around that do remember that not all of the content used to be push-over content and thus know that in order to beat the content playing as a group and less as an individual was usually the key for success. But the - for the most part - trivial content we have now for sure added to the toxicity as now plenty more players are able to beat group content on their own and act like they are part of the "elite" when actually they are more like the mid-tier players and this trend will continue in future
Good video. I don't comment often but this video deserves praise. I use your content to get better as a player, thank you for the work you put in for those of us who want to be better.
I feel like something that the toxic casuals forget regarding endgame players willing to help, is that people who enjoy and put a lot of effort into something, generally enjoy talking about it and helping others with it. This doesn't just apply to meta builds, but basically anything in life. Find someone who really loves their job and they're likely to help you with anything pertaining to it. Same for endgame players who spends hours combing through logs, testing things out, etc. I'm more than happy to help someone who asks me for advice in ESO because despite its flaws I really enjoy the game and like to improve. So if someone comes up to me and wants to get better, I do my utmost to help them reach their goal.
Something I noticed about Most players who has been around for a long time tend to like to help people and don't bother others. If someone has questions I remember older players answering new players questions. I find that I am never bothered by older players. I was once getting overwhelmed because of my own stupidity and and over estimating my abilities an older player who was passing by stopped and saved my sorry backside when they didn't have to. I never got a chance to thank them for it. A different player who did the same thing I did and they whined about them stealing their kills and stuff. I never understood why some people are so angry when they are helped.
No ur completely wrong, it's a game not real life, you don't have to give free stuff people ask nicely for it, since it's a community based game. The only people who have a problem with it, are the people who treat this game like it's a job, and treat their community like it's their real family. It's no real life it's not real money it's not real. It's not my fault that you just assume because people ask for help and stuff in a game that is a mmo and community are being toxic, which btw asking for stuff and help is not toxic, expecting that new player or casual player to give you gold or to is toxic. You're definitely that guys who will never help a new player unless it's some sort of long term investment for you like what thing should be in ur real life not a game.
The term "toxic casual" actually does not have much to do with casuals; the chill type players who dont care what others are doing just like end game players. Its the low awareness shit people/players that need to put others down to feel better about themselves that are the problem.
I feel so "lost" watching this video because I don't know about any of this drama in the game. I know there has been some guild drama I've seen, but I would consider myself a casual player - I'm not a pvp'er, not an end gamer (the guild I was in is dead), I just like to log in, do some dungeons, play my different classes, and just chill with questing and riding around. When I left WoW years ago the "hardcore end game raider" and "guild is my other life" died in me. I guess I don't pay much attention to the drama anymore for better or worse. I'm a true believer that you should play how you want but don't mess with other players or say how they are playing is wrong; if you want to hardcore end game, do it. If you want to chill and explore/do random dungeons, do it. If you want to craft and collect crap, do it. Just have fun.
Same. I listened thru the whole video and I still don't know what this is about. I'm CP 1044 and I don't have the addon that tells you your DPS. I followed a build I liked for a solo mag sorc since I don't have any friends to play with, so I guess maybe I'm not set up for a pug group, I have no idea. I guess that makes me toxic??? I've been in groups where the others blasted ahead and left me to get massacred by the adds/mobs while I tried to keep up, and I didn't appreciate it. I can't solo group dungeons, but if you join a group you get criticized for not being a savant at the game. So I'm confused by this whole video because it sounds like it's saying if you're a casual player you're toxic?
@@mythic_snake No, he is saying SOME casual players are toxic. And those are not players who have solo builds or something, quite the opposite, as Nefas says, the actual endgame players don't care what you do, they let you be and all they want is for people to let them be. They won't tell you to play meta build, they won't kick you from dungeons or criticize you. The toxic casuals are people who will go to Skinny's build video and tell him that his build sucks because it has Dual Wield daggers and "magicka players use staves". Or they will comment in forums that scoepushing players asking for balanced combat or bug fixes are "being negative and need to shut up and appreciate ZOS", they are people who loudly say "we should all be ESO family
@@prisonbreakd oh okay! Whew, I'm glad I'm not toxic then! I always hesitate to join dungeon groups because of people like that. It's very intimidating.
@@mythic_snake nah the toxic people would be the people joining the dungeon, not carrying their weight, then telling you to change your build cause “it’s not meta” or sum bullshit excuse
Very well put, I would love to see new raiders come up. I took a 18 month break and came back, and the end game players seem to have mostly disappeared. Thank you for the clear message.
The last two trials have been kinda disappointing in the rewards and gear dept. We really went backwards when things switched from rele/lokke to rele/AY. Advancing yokuda becoming meta felt like the hard work of clearing vet Sunspire just didn't matter and the fact that there's no difference between normal and vet gear stats for AY just rubbed salt in that. It was like suddenly the game went back in time and your natural progression as a player of tougher challenges = better gear did too because Hel Ra is infinitely easier than vSS. Kyne's was the kind of trial that most people only ran to get the clear. And now, stamina is weaker than it's been in ages while mag can get all the benefits of stam with none of the risk. It's a very strange time. I hope things get better because back during the rele/lokke era trials were running constantly in crag and right now it's hard to find even a normal trial off peak hours. I'm in crag a lot but my trial guild has gone dormant because there's nothing for us to do but lately even the PUGs are starting to dry up unless you want to run normal which really sucks bc normal is boring to me. I'd like to find an active end game guild but I don't want to go through a lot of the BS that I went through before I found my present one.
The guild I run trials with has benefitted greatly from all the hard work end gamers like you do while we are at our 9-5s. Thanks for all the hard work you do. Your name comes up alot when deciding how to help optimize someone's toon for a group. Heck, you've helped us do some crazy off toon stuff too. I am so happy you made this video. We can all become this change in our own guilds. Good looking out as usual. Let's hope this lesson spreads as well as some of your others, prof.
Living as you want is not egoism, egoism is when other people need to live as you want. Same goes with "play how you want". Thank you for this video, it is important.
I made the mistake of commenting on a Reddit thread once about how great Zos was great at "addressing" and "listening" to the "community" and how free non-combat pets made up for the issues in the game. I simply stated that pets were pretty lame. The person I replied to went on a tangent about how toxic I was and that Zos tried really hard. They blocked me and others who stated that Zos hasn't really addressed the issues in the game. Since then I've been very careful about what threads I reply in.
I think people have bad experiences with people of a differing opinion and then attribute that experience to others (such as yourself) with that same opinion thus they think you are toxic like the people they’ve previously encountered.
As a casual player, I can tell you the most helpful people in ESO are the endgame elites. I mean it just makes sense, if you’re good at something, it makes you feel good being able to help someone, or being so good that you don’t need a tank or healer that knows what they’re doing to finish content. I mean one of my guild masters is INSANELY helpful, helping new players doing easy content no elite is incentivized to do. Another one of my guild masters is INSANELY patient, as are most other elites (especially guild leaders).
What i find toxic about fake tanking is when you are a bad DPS and you dont slot a taunt, i am a returning player and its bad now i kick alot of them out because i juste want to parse to get my skills back and i end up 3 dps and i do 60% of the damage so i have to slot a freaking taunt. I dont mind having 3 dps but have the decency of putting a taunt and have aggro.
@@cedriklorrain8175 Assuming we are talking about normal dungeons... there really isn't a need for a tank or a healer in random groups of strangers. I get it, its nice to sit and parse... but we can make groups in guild chat for that. Personally, i try not to kick people from content unless we 100% can't clear with them in the group. Even then i apologize and try to give any necessary advice so they can improve and come back to the challenge another day. It sucks to be kicked (personal experience) and i don't do it lightly just because i want to sit at the boss' butt and parse.
@@joshuahelt6589 i mean its frustrating to get aggro and still do 60-70-80% of the DPS with a fake tank that refuse to get aggro. Im sorry but if ur going to fake tank make sure u get aggro and deal damage.
@@cedriklorrain8175 I just don't see the need for a fake tank holding aggro in a normal dungeon. first, they likely have light or medium armor and can't take the damage. second, you should have the skills to evade CC from the boss/adds. third, if they are doing 20% of the dps, they are likely learning the game still and don't even know what a proper tank is. You can't fault them for fake tanking to actually get into some content and get some better gear its all part of the learning curve. If you want to hone your DPS skills in a proper trinity setup you should probably do so in vet content where you actually have to put your skills to the test with group coordination, mechanics, and so forth.
you can literally have level 10 players spamming LA and still clear the content you are talking about. with that in mind, i see no satisfactory justification for kicking anyone out of the group.
I was running a solo build in vet dungeons and had the tank leave and say I needed to get my dps up to complete the content. So I did my research and set off to improve because of that. I've complete most trial HM's now and the end game community was awesome at helping, maybe a little for players to even keep me around. I've recently switched to PVP. Well I got destroyed a lot, then I had a player spend 10 minutes giving me advice about my play style after killing me, I really appreciated it and it wasn't toxic at all.
In vet dungeon it should only take 3 ppl to complete it but 4th guy just a bonus...4th can be weak still completed..what it is some ppl get carried so much just rubbish around certain players..if i was leader i wouldn't kick anyone who weak
@@kirkportz6812 Theres a weak guy, cause he doesnt know or just started. And theres the cp 2000 weak guy,who cant pull more than 50k. The second deserve to be kicked, he doesnt make any effort to help the group and get carried without even realising it. Some time you just need a reality check in your face to see the issue
@@77SBCR That is also my philosophy. I can excuse lower CP players who are just starting out but that 2000 CP DPS who can only crank out 20K damage...there is no excuse for that. The internet is full of resources that will help people with their builds and rotation. There are many guilds out there that will do the same.
The toxicity arises due to a lack of people actually communicating with each other and a lack of patience. Years ago, when the basic veteran dungeons were really hard, groups who lacked the DPS to burn down bosses, i.e. daedroth boss in COA2, had to come up with a strategy that involved a bit of strategic placement and coordination. Almost all encounters can be beaten with low-dps groups by simply playing mechanics and/or a bit of coordination. DPS just allows you to skip those mechanics and trivialize content therefore, i.e. Rakkhat in vMOL where a lot of players don't know how the lunar phase actually needs to be played, and that is a sad thing actually. And people just realized that DPS is king and therefore allows you to skip a lot of things and therefore demand other players to do plenty of DPS to trivialize the content. By kicking a 6-10k DPS guy in a random normal dungeon they just increase their chance to get a 70k+ guy and therefore just blast through the dungeon and not spend further time in a dungeon that was cleared already 100+ times before. The most fun I had in random dungeons were those where the other players haven't done that dungeon before and therefore didn't know the mechanics and through communication we finally manged to beat the dungeon including hardmode, i.e. ICP when it was the last dungeon added (with WGT) to the game. We wiped for like 2 hours on the hardmode as people had to learn the encounter and damage wasn't top notch either, but with careful analyzis and communication we were able to beat that encounter without any voice tooling. Similar stories can be told for other dungeons as well.
very strong, bold and touching words. I don’t know about other players, but when I started playing, I realized that something was going wrong and after a while I started asking questions to my experienced guild mates and they helped. Those who are not afraid of help will always be heard and will be helped a lot. This is one of the things I would recommend to a new player.
I asked my randoms in a DLC dungeon to read their mechanics in a dungeon as they kept wiping while I tanked. I got called toxic for not writing whatever their mechanics were for them (I had no idea what they did wrong) and they voted me out instead of learning the game. Considering that I was willing to wait for them to read tips on how to kill a boss instead of just leaving, I would say I was the least toxic in that stack
Well, it is a complete difference if you say "Your damage is really low, can you tell me how you play so we can find the mistake" and "you're trash! Your damage sucks! Piss off!"...
@@heramaaroricon4738 Idk why you decided to pick my comment on this, but I've never told any DD their damage is too low. On the contrary now TWICE two other dungeon members have tried to kick my friend for doing low dps on a low level hero... Damage isn't a mechanic, unless the boss is a DPS check kinda boss and I've made only positive comments ever about it because as a chronic pain sort of person I struggle to reach the Big Boi damage some legends tell tales about. The toxic DPS in my comment's case came at me for not knowing what they did wrong that got them killed and told me to teach them whatever they were doing instead of going to Google and find a guide for a normal DLC dungeon or to even look at their damage reports to see what killed them.
This is so true. Dungeons are can be such a toxic place. I had a fool tell me that our DPS sucked when there were only three people in a veteran dungeon (someone dropped out). Then don't get me started on the mechanics. I was in a dungeon with 3x over 1000 champion points and my 700 points. They could not finish the next boss until I got back with the group. Some poeple are so fucking toxic in this game. WHY!
Though I've played ESO since beta, I was mostly a quester and solo player. In the past couple years I've started focusing on harder group content, and I've been having a ball. Help from you and other endgame players has been invaluable, and I wouldn't be enjoying myself nearly so much. The only problem I've been having, ironically enough, is finding people to run with. I can definitely understand the hesitancy to talk to new people, given the toxicity in much of the player base. On the other hand, there are others like me who genuinely would love to run but have no idea how to find people to run with. On the outside looking in, it feels like the endgame community is a closed system with not many new people able to get in. I hope that's not the case, because I'd love to meet some of you guys. You all seem pretty awesome.
Most of the end game community is very nice. Especially for the guilds that I'm a part of. Biggest challenge once you join a Guild with end game teams is co-ordinating your free time with 11 other people :D My guild tends to hold training runs (first normal casuals, then vet, then HM and so on) to each newer players so that we get trained enough to join prog groups if we are interested.
I am pretty much the same in this regard as I was there at beta and basically just started on PC and the problems finding players for anything has been slowly hurting my experience as no one is willing to assist most times. I also wanted to state though I am not a PVP player or like PVP that much To me and I am a RPG player at heart.But I understand that there is a portion that very much enjoys it and it’s never hurt me that ESO has PVP and hearing how some of the content creators have been treated is disgusting to me actually.
This was a much much needed Video. Thanks Nefas for doing it. I hope it can help in saveing the endgame Community and also help to get new players into Endgame PvE (trifactor Raids/Dungeons).
Nefas your leadership journey is progressing beautifully. Dealing with people is hard. Turning the other cheek is hard. Maintaining positivity in sea of negativity is excruciatingly difficult. This is the world and not just this game. Learn from it what you can and become someone that will inspire these positive traits in eso and irl. Rise above! I believe in you! ❤️❤️❤️
The only real toxicity I see in ESO are the soft feminist leftists constantly crying about 'toxicity' in zone chat. Dont believe me? Go to Auridon zone chat.
It’s a game I grew up playing cod and if you can’t handle a 10 year old calling your mom something then turn off the game Nancy and go outside and interact with a real human being it is a different experience.
I don't think you have to ever apologize for your excellent thoughts and original thinking. You are a great asset to this or any game community. Namaste
My brother was running a random dungeon. He was killing everything, he min-maxes. He would wait for the tank, respectfully, then blow up the mobs. Most noobs would appreciate this, I thought. The team however was a group of role players. They told my brother he was disrespecting his role, as a Templar using a destro staff, and that spamming Wall of Ele as Templar is inappropriate. They then called him an elitist and kicked him from the group 🤣 To this day, we use the phrase "you're disrespecting your role," in pretty much every scenario in real life.
I’m new to the game and my friends always told me you can literally play however you want as long as you know what you’re doing so I don’t see why some people jus get upset like how the randoms did w your brother over something so small
@@nasnyc299 well, for the double exp event, I decided to run a Public Dungeon. I memorized the spawn locations of monsters and time it takes for them to regenerate back, and I created the perfect route for endless exp. Some guy found me and said I was running the dungeon too fast, "questioned my intellect," and said the way I was playing was wrong, and that it was a Public Dungeon and I should be treating it as such. So, he wanted me to play his way, as if he designed how a Public Dungeon should run, and that how I was playing was wrong. I don't know if these people are used to getting their way in life or what, but it's like going to a Public Park and telling someone they are playing basketball too loudly on the concrete, and telling them they should play on the grass. I mean, if you wanna play on the grass cool, but not me 🤣
Thank you for the message. I'm new and am leveling a healer. I cant wait to get experience and learn my role. I was put off at first but your message to the new players was inspiring.
This was me a year ago, until I finally started listening and committed to getting better. Your videos helped tremendously with that, especially on learning how to tank properly.
I have totally experienced this. I ran a random vICP other day (note I am 1300+cp) and ended up with 120-331cp team mates. I was doing 35-50% of damage as healer and I was spamming heals soooo hard but just couldn't keep anyone up because their resistances even with my buffs was sooo low. One of them essentially was like "Dude are you even healing?" I was like nope gonna deal with this shit today.
@MadWolfX13 _ It's not that hard to get decent and above the global average 8k DPS, just takes some effort to learn. SMH, I have seen some really good 300cp players who knew what they were doing with the few points they have, but most are just proudly & toxically ignorant.
I've been blamed so many times because dps didn't block a heavy or got one shot or stood in stupid too long. When I transferred from console it was low cp it was really bad and toxic because they assumed I was a new player.
@MadWolfX13_ It's about on par with my experience, and it was a statistic I heard from another channel (can't remember which off the top of head honestly) and it's not a general rule either. Personally, I have come from 10k to 45k on my DPS in the last year alone as a casual, just by starting to really look into the mechanics and trying to get better end game sets, etc. Crafted gear can only take you so far, if you know what I mean? I am not an expert but I have started to pay attention to stuff said by people who know just a little bit more than me. The issue we see is that sometimes you have people who are content to be ignorant, which is fine! Just don't blame your dying on someone who as a healer is out DPSing you while trying his damnedest to keep you alive, you know? If I can burst heal a carry group through vet Unhallowed Grave while ignoring mechanics in the Kiln I can pretty much heal anyone that is willing to stay close enough get those heals.
Had a new player join a guild where I was raidleading training trials. He was asking for vSS and complaining that no one wants to take him to pugs because he has no achievement (I assume to farm PFG because that's in the build guide). I offered a vSS training run and was happy to take him and teach all the mechanics. I scheduled 1 vet DLC training run per week. The guy called the guild a toxic elitist guild because we didn't host an immediate vSS but he needs to wait a full week after we explained that hosting trials is a time consuming process and needs to be done ahead of time so it fills. Especially not to mention that raid leaders have limited time and they're putting in their own free time and effort to host trials and help others learn. He just insulted everyone and left.
@@plectro3332 Does your guild/guild that you are in accept new players? I would like to join a friendly guild that can occassionally give some tips. Havent had much luck finding an active talking guild.
I was honestly shocked to see negative feedbacks towards videos that contained constructive criticism in regards to the performance issues the game has had, currently has and will always have especially at this rate. It's hard to SOLEY blame Zenimax for the huge disconnect that the player base feels when the devs aren't receiving genuine feedback from the community. It's always been a struggle for people to separate their emotions from facts and I think this is a classic example of that. I'm sure all of us have seen people not giving credit where it's due, but my god, why the fuck are we GIVING credit to where it's NOT due. Not only that, but now people are taking it a step further by shitting on others that are discussing these issues with good intentions to help improve the game. It disgusts me to see such a divide within its own community by such a fundamental necessity the game clearly lacks. Since when was wishing to see their skills activate when they press them a reason to bash someone for? Not only that, but the majority of the people who want to see improvements to performance are speaking from experiences OUTSIDE of primetime lag in cyro. They've come to terms that during populated times and areas, they will experience lag; and they've lowered their standards/expectations as low as low can possibly get.
I was honestly shocked to discover how bad Cyrodiil performance is, because the toxic casuals have just been gaslighting everyone into thinking that PvPers are just complaining over nothing. Then I decided to give PvP a bash and holy shit it is every bit as bad as the PvPers were saying. If not worse.
Honestly this is one of the reasons I left eso as a trifecta raider for mythic raiding in wow. Whilst I like teaching new players, I don’t like getting hate whilst teaching and helping. And in eso you basically get shat on for trying to be nice and if you sling any shit back because you are so sick of the entitlement you can be hit with a ban. At least in wow the developers are pretty hands off with general shit slinging in retaliation to toxic casuals.
been playing this game as a solo player for over a year. Member of several guilds, but rarely interact with any of them. Toxicity is rampant across the entire internet (product of previous generational issues), as well in RL. Best bet is head down and focus, ignore the noise.
So you guys recommend this game for a solo casual experience? Can I enjoy this game if I play 1-2 h daily and not have all the work become obsolete because of the next patch, like in wow? Thank you for responding guys
@@alvodin6197 It depends. Stuff doesn't get negated due to an upgrade for a new patch, but they do switch the "best" around a LOT. I have been running my Pet Sorc main with relatively the same gear for 5-6 years, and I mostly solo, so it can be done. I do not raid and only touch on veteran dungeons. (I also skip many DLC dungeons due to many being very hard, especially with hard (for me) to learn mechanics.)
As someone who’s still learning all aspects of the game, it’s so hard to ask for advice for being put down, etc. this video is 110% on point and lots of respect.
Friedrich Nietzsche, in his Geneology of Morals, described that the way our current moral values evolved was through a shift in dichotomy from good vs bad to good vs evil. Here, this shift was formed from the ressentiment the "slave" class had towards their "masters" and formed a virtuous system as some kind of divine vindication. He made this point as a means to elucidate the innate hypocrisy in supposed "well intentioned" moral systems. The underlying reason for these systems isn't the moral systems themselves but something far more sinister. And through the shift in dichotomy from good vs bad to good vs evil, the dynamic of power shifted. The historical example he gives for this phenomenon is religion. Why do I mention this? Well it's because it can apply to toxic casuals. If you do not take the "slave" and "master" dichotomy literally (which even Nietzsche would attest that you shouldn't), you'll find that toxic casuals externalize their own shortcomings and blame their inability to engage with top content on others. Here they've identified the hardcore players as the "villains" and have constructed a rather elaborate, "good for the community" arguments. But these arguments aren't for the good of the community. They stem from envy, frustration, and animosity. To give a concrete example, a prominent youtuber, th3asiangod, gave a concrete showcase of his dps parse with different gear and cp breakpoints while filming his finger placements on his keyboard. This was motivated due to the toxic spouting of some players in the forums claiming that the expectations for dps is too high and the hardcore PvE players are toxic. Their reasons for the dps discrepancies were better gear and macros. th3asiangod showed that while better gear does increase dps, you can get sufficient dps to participate in end game content to grind for better gear. He proved that what some of these toxic players were doing was lying and scapegoating.
Toxic Casual (ANY MMO) = "I DEMAND compensation/awards for everything I do, no matter how bad I am at that thing. And I DESERVE to be present for all Content even if I'm completely incapable of completing said Content because of how bad I am at the Game".
@@ryuzakikazeshini4012 Fortunately for me I left (as one of the Founding Members for the 1st year of BETA before B2P) because of the constant lies from the Devs and their silencing any and all of us who called them out for said lies.
Well said! And something I really needed to hear. I've only been playing the game since the spring and all those times I tried learning tanking or healing, the fear of getting hate whispers of something I did not do right or missed a skill was present. It is refreshing to hear the perspective of a true end player. Thank you!
When I was starting out tanking I wanted a vampire character and I figured that being a templar and a tank would work best for her because of high resourse gain, health regen, and high health. I asked around for advice and was hit by alot of harsh negativity regarding me being a vamp in general from people I met ingame and from builds online. After many months of researching different builds and sets I put together my vampire tank and have completed many trials and now recently 4 vet dungeon trifectas including vet fang lair and scalecaller peak. I did it all proudly at stage 4 vampirism and with no real problems with my build. Don't let people judge you for what build you wanna make and instead keep experimenting and find what best works for you and you personally. Yeah you'll make mistakes but thats just a process of learning.
I have to say that I can relate to you here since I played Vampire Necromancer 2hander tank way back when Elsweyr first came out and I managed to perfect it over time more and more since the class was so damn strong that it let me steamroll through some of the harder dungeon content thanks to my skill with the build too. No telling if the build would work nowadays since I haven't kept up with ESO since 2018 after I quit the game due to boredom, so idk if they nerfed Necro too badly or not, I do know they heavily changed Vampires however...
The people that want to force you to play the way THEY want you to play is not the casuals though. Most casuals don't give a fuck about how other people play. Because they are there for the world, only play a few hours a week, most of them don't even make it to vet dungeons or anything. 90% of casuals don't even know what any of the metas are to begin with, let alone try to force people into those moulds.
This right here! This video! This needed to happen. I’m sick and tired of getting called an toxic elitist when I’m trying to help people and when I shut up I get called for not helping. I literally was in that situation right there.
Reminds me of the time I tried to help an RP guild clear their first vSS. I was called toxic just because I recorded logs.....imagine that. In their eyes I "exposed" everyone's mistakes. Well Said Nefas
Why bother recording logs for an RP guild? If you are RPing, damage and proper play is not the primary goal, necessarily. Surviving, sure, but chasing perfection? No. It is a waste of your time to do this. I certainly wouldn't bother if I was helping people through a dungeon.
@@jamiegatt5370 Ah well that is different than simply "helping them clear their first vSS", which in most games would mean simply running them through via your far more powerful character.
I’m a bit conflicted with all this. First thing… I haven’t played seriously in near 2 years. I was a low-end End Gamer when I dropped out. I did give up on dps because I couldn’t be bothered to learn the rotations. But I set about Tanking with proper commitment. One of the reasons I stopped was cos it was so hard to push up to true end game. Both in skill level but also in acceptance of the need to learn. Like… if you didn’t get it right, you’d be slated and often 2-3 of the raid group would just quit out basically blaming me for not getting shit right. But without me having the chance to do it properly. So there is without doubt toxicity in the elites. But also I don’t doubt there’s toxicity in the casuals exactly as you describe. Refusal to listen to advise. Refusal to acknowledge issues. And especially refusal to put the effort in to actually git gud. There are nuances on both sides of the argument that can be overcome by one simple method. Don’t be a dick. If someone is rushing the dungeon and you wanna play slow. Tell them, nicely. If you wanna speed run, when the others are going slow… tell them, nicely. If you can’t agree how to run it… quit the run and find a different group. But don’t get stressed about it. Just recognise… you can play however you want, but that won’t be the same for all of us: and Hey, That’s OK. If you wanna wear some weird ass non meta gear to run a trial go ahead, but if the people you’re playing with don’t like it and ask you to change up (nicely) maybe you should do it, OR leave them to it and find a group that DOESNT care. It’s all pretty easy, if people just chill and accept each others differences.
Yup. This is pretty much accurate. We are probably similar though in that we belong in the "swing" group of players between the two "factions" that have been outlined... the hardcore vs the casuals... we truly are "the balanced". Simply recognizing the need for both sets of players is half the battle, and it seems you can't do it from either faction - you kinda gotta be in the middle - or at least willing to put yourself in that middle.
I agree with a lot of points. I have thought a while about it, even watched Else’s reaction video. I clearly see more issues with toxic casuals in PvP as I spend a lit of time in Cyrodiil. To keep toxicity away I founded my own guild for PvE content and we cleared trial HMs from the scratch with everyone’s effort to do so. We do play meta but adjust to our needs, of course. Some of my guild members who are still in this guild got PS4 EI Planesbreaker, and I’m endlessly happy for them. Founding that guild to give people a safe environment to learn and enjoy raiding was one of the best decisions in ESO. I did because I had to deal with lots of toxicity with the “mid tier players”. I play on this level, so that’s the people I usually meet the most. I always had a good experience with top tier players on console (!), they always were willing to help, taken me along, shared builds, and respected my view on things or appreciated my inputs. One point of your video I need to criticise a bit, as constructively as possible, is: I don’t know why “fake tanking/healing” was brought up, but (and yes I watched the whole vid) as it was I need to say something about it. Well, it is not toxic as long as at least the fake tank holds aggro and fucking waits for their team mates. I still think no OP player needs to queue in the dungeon finder but can travel in and solo/duo stuff but the main issue with “endgame players” doing so is: These mid tier players (“toxic casuals) aren’t as good as they think, so they don’t solo stuff as efficiently as they try to pretend, plus sometimes they even cannot wait for other players to finish their quests (or wait for the quest to go on). I know that first hand when levelling up a new character I don’t want to power grind; moreover my friend started ESO a few weeks ago. When she queues, she had those rushing assholes that didn’t wait for her to even pick up loot. Although I think a lot of players wait, the whole “You don’t need a tank or healer for lalala dungeons” influenced toxic players to not giving a fuck about others, sorry to say. Or at least provided them the perfect excuse. This whole “I put out 80% of the group damage” is not exactly an argument, either. I’ll always have a taunt on if I queue as tank, “real or fake tank”. I always heal ppl when I’m queuing as healer. Most of the time though I don’t queue but I/we travel in. If I don’t, I consider someone has the quest or takes longer, does less damage, etc. I don’t care if they play meta, I don’t care if they are “bad”, as long as they have some manners. I do share gear, I greet them, I don’t rush until everyone agrees to rush or skip. That includes to do all bosses in Fungal Grotto or Wayrest Sewers, for example if people want to clear them. It does take 2 minutes longer and is no big deal. Hope everyone commenting here contributes to a positive and helpful environment interacting with other players. ❤️
I can see both sides of this. I think the important thing for everyone is communication. If I need to do a quest in a dungeon I’ll type in chat that I’m doing the quest, and MOST people understand and wait. Same thing if someone wants to kill all the bosses. If you communicate your desires at the beginning, a lot of the time people will do it. BUT if you don’t say anything, everyone is going to rush through as fast as possible, because they have done the dungeons so many times, and they are only doing them for the daily rewards, which they want to get done as quickly as possible.. Also, his argument wasn’t “ I am better by putting out 80% of the DPS.” It was, “This DPS that is not doing anywhere close to the damage he could be is roasting the tank for dying in a decently difficult dungeon to tank.” As far as Fanking and Fealing go.. Mixed feelings all around. If you are faking a role, and people can tell because you can’t get through content, you probably shouldn’t be faking the role. BUT if you are performing the role decently, or negating the need for that role by burning the bosses down before the mechanics even have a chance to start and you aren’t wiping, who cares? People put way too much stock into the 1 tank 1 heals 2 DPS thing. Most Normal and a lot of veteran dungeons can be done with a mix and match as long as there is good communication and everyone knows what they are doing.
@@JustcallmeMoM I don’t see both sides, if I do normal dungeons I expect new players or casual ones. I have done all of the dungeons hundreds and hundreds of time but I’m able to predict the pace by the first trash fights and adjust to it. I see if people pick up the quest in the beginning. No big deal. When I do the most damage anyway i won’t matter if we do all bosses as it takes 1-2 min longer, or is the crab and dreugh such a big issue? I mean, don’t get me wrong, it might be exhausting if something like LoM pops up as it’s long but if I use the Activity Finder I know it can happen. There you cannot skip much anyway.
Ohh I particularly enjoy your videos where you interview talented players and content creators. I think you ask great questions and bring out the best in your guest so they are candid and comfortable to speak their minds.
iv just picked up eso and iv been loving it. i am a new casual player but im also an introvert who struggles with social situations even online so keeping the points of this vid in mind im going to do my best not to be toxic
Should try to find a guild with older players IRL that hate to use any voice chat and use keyboard only, I've been in guilds like that in other games, they are my favorite. I'm similar to you.
Spot on video man. Been playing this game since release day and I'm glad someone really gave input on this. Been having fun taking frequent breaks from the game due to bs the game provides every now-and-then. I don't join prog. groups anymore because most of them I've generally joined have this kind of toxic mindset, and I'm not just talking about the big end game prog groups. I simply just play the game how I feel it makes me comfortable, and if anyone hates it based off of my playstyle, skill, or gear, then they can go take their mindset somewhere else. They don't pay my bills, rent, insurance, or anything in my life for that matter, so should I give a shit; absolutely not. As someone who experiments and delves into the unknown in this game even if it's a gear set or skill that's already been ranked on someone's list as good or bad, I will still find a way to make said thing fit in my book and continue to enjoy playing the game the way I like without some toxic snob telling me otherwise. In other words, if you are reading this as well as any other popular content creator for ESO, I just wanted to say that you guys put in a lot of effort for what you do. You, Nefas, I feel, despite the negativity you may have gotten, have really inspired a lot of people in ESO community. You put in so much work and effort to creating builds for people to use, testing numbers, testing skills, explaining patches, and so much more. I used to be a dps way back in the day, but switched to tanking primarily because I've always favored supports in other MMO's and RPG's I've played also because of the requirements a dps needs to have in most groups now-a-days regardless if its a small non hardcore pve endgame guild or the opposite. Never had the time to practice a proper rotation and such due to living an extremely busy life, but switching to a support made it easier for me to get into some content, such as trifectas, personality, and skin runs. You and Xynode are really what got me into tanking and where I'm standing in the game today, and it's definitely something I won't ever forget. Side note - Great content as always. Hope this video gets out there in the ESO community and helps in dealing with this bs. Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope you have a fantastic and much better day.
You "end-game" guys certainly have put a lot of work into disseminating information about the game, much appreciated. You all have made my time in ESO much more interesting and rewarding. I think the ESO community is just a reflection of our society in general. This kind of toxicity and entitlement is rampant throughout U.S. society, at least. And online communities have always been an order of magnitude less socialized than real life communities. People seem to take the lack of face-to-face interaction as a license for poor behavior.
I appreciate your insight on this topic. I can't see the toxics ever going away or changing. The only solution I see is to group up with like-minded people, as you meet other non toxics start building a mini in game community. How can we toxic-proof the online world and ourselves?
I've only played ESO for about a year, I'm curretly CP 920 and gettign into endgame HM raids and such. For me, the exereince of going from a casual to an endgame player was awesome, ESO is a game where your DPS numbers and skill counts for more than your CP level so despite everything I've fel the endgame community has been extremly welcomming to me :)
Nefas this is amazing hitting the nail right on the head lol I’ve met so many people in ESO asking how to improve and they will take my assistant as being toxic for just trying to assist WHEN ASKED TO ASSIST! Thanks for this video 👌🏽
After playing this game for 5 years I literally changed my name to toxic. I go around being nice and helping as many new players as I can just to confuse people. 😁
Honestly i'm going to say it. You mention mystic, but I think Xynode is a big problem too. Every stream he calls out supposedly toxic elitists for requiring parses to join while literally shitting on the end-game community every single time. He is a popular streamer and instead of taking that angle, why not simply say that different people have different goals and leave it at that. No need to ingrain into newer player's brain that watch your streams that it's toxic to have requirements. I have yet to meet a toxic end-game player. If you call toxic having requirements to join a raid guild, well so be it, just create your own guild and do your own raids the way you want it.
I think Xynode like many people thinks that someone who does vDLC trials and encourages meta gear = endgame player, and thus he labels them "toxic elitists". I think he, just like many people, doesn't realize that most actual endgame/score-pushing/trifecta players are a very small bunch. And people who go around in dungeons complaining that "I do 5% more DPS than the other player, KICK THEM" are not the actual endgame players but just random dudes who cleared Lokke HM once and now think they know everything. No score-pushing player will even call you out on your easy sorc, it's indeed the toxic casuals who either worship xynode's builds or shit on them. You see that in Nefas discord a lot too, it's the people who want to be the next Skinnycheeks that shit on Xynode, while the actual Skinnycheeks is too busy making content and his own builds. A player with their screws in place just won't care if their tank is wearing a Leeching set or not, in a random dungeon, and will join a trial group that shares their values. I know a Polish guild that got all DLC trial trifectas with a Leeching tank and all kinds of non-meta stuff. I myself play in meta sets, I like it more that way. Both are fine as long as players are happy. But I do think that he doesn't realize that it's not toxic elitists who whine about leeching or easy sorcs, it's indeed the toxic casuals.
I always put a lot of work into learning online about good healer builds and learning the dungeon and raid/trial mechanics beforehand. Mostly because I'm super afraid to be worse than I could be. I WANT to be as good as I can. So it was really disheartening when I asked for help on a Discord sever only for people telling me I should "play what I want" and "find your own, personal build" and "just enjoyy the game". When I tried to explain that this is how I want to play the game and my anxiety issues, they got really aggressive. And seeing this behaviour over and over on the forusm, reddit, Twitter etc. I quickly came to the resolution that I don't even want to be as deeply connected/into the ESO community as I was with previous MMOs. Those toxic casuals always made me uncomfortable. Even if someone would kick me for underperforming or whatever or for my class/role combination (happened), it was never as discouraging as someone telling me the way I enjoy playing this game, moreso with potential of growth and at least striving for semi-endgame, is wrong.
Personally, I've had mixed experiences with group endgame content. I think generally that the players engaged in group end game content in this game are more likely to be friendly, helpful and forgiving than are several other games I play, but all is not perfect either. I've had bad experiences as well, and there are, unfortunately, plenty of toxic people all across the player demographic.
Since everyone is different you are bound to run into "toxic" player everywhere in any game. Hopefully on your journey to end game or while there you get a friend list going and deal with just the good ones. If you run into a bad one, don't let that ruin your experience.
I would consider myself a “neutral casual” at first thought, but I’m not too sure what the eso definition of a “neutral casual” is, as I don’t pay very much attention to the ongoings of the greater player base. So what I am asking is what is the ESO definition of a “neutral casual” is, in case I’m labeling myself wrong (to be frank, I don’t fully understand what constitutes as an “endgame player” either. Am I an endgame player?)
Finally someone made an on point analysis, you did provide some solid arguments to use in the future. Im doubtful we can turn the tide, but at least we can defend somewhat
@@NefasQS considering you watched Deeg's videos (he was a planetside 2 channel at one point), is it possible that you also watched this gem ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-r4S65EPP64Q.html I get the same vibes from your video as this guy's.
The reddit mindset, using new players/bad players as a shield under the betterment of community against the big bad cp1600 who hasn't said a thing in chat, anytime I hear "BUT THINK OF THE NEW PLAYERS" I instantly know who I'm talking to.
Great video! This issue is what chased me away from the forums where I used to try to submit bug reports. Too many of my report posts got locked, buried, and lost after these toxic casuals aggressively refuted anything and everything I or other bug reporters said. They flood the forums, our only real way to communicate with the devs, with angry, entitled, unimportant word vomit and make it impossible to do anything productive on there.
Outside of the human element I think the problem mainly stems from the game itself, in my experience typical pattern goes like this: zos nerfs everything into the ground, youtuber/content creator finds what is the best for the next 3 months, typically a small handful of sets and builds that far outperform everything else, casual guy or random eso player watches said video or reads about said build and declares its the only way to play ALL the content, they then bring the mindset into the game and it spreads like wildfire, hence where we seem to be today with this, maybe zos needs to make better choices on how they make constant changes, just some food for thought
Speaking of fake tanks, i just ran through a dungeon where the tank was rushing ahead of everyone slicing through people ahead of everyone else and leaving the people in the rear to die. Sometimes I dont mind how you play as long as you're not screwing over the rest of the team in the process
That video with fengrush..... man... As for ALL the content creators out there. Pvp, or pve. You are appreciated. I started this game during the pandemic and it got me through a rough fucking time. I may not have HM dlc trials yet, or have empd yet, but thank you for giving me a basis to build my toons around to get there. Again you are appreciated.
I have a lot of respect for you for putting this out there and hope that it will help to change ESO for the better in the longterm. Personally I have experienced every little thing and more you discuss in the video. I play since Beta and put an absurd amount of hours into this game. A few years back I used to go to Auridon every friday, grab a bunch of beginners and craft gear, gave tips and teach. Also whenever someone asked about weaving in zone or more casual guilds I put myself out there and helped. On Reddit 90% or so of my comments were helpful and trying to teach people. This all has dialed down massively over time for two major reasons one of which is the toxic casuals and the other is the low retention rate. I can't even count how often I have been told I am toxic for explaining how something works and why X is currently happening in the meta. This has happened so much that I basically never get involved in discussions in casual guilds anymore and hardly ever comment on Reddit. I've also noticed how I did drift in the direction of actually being toxic since it was expected of me anyways. The one issue I have with ESO endgame that I find pretty toxic is the dick measuring though. That is something ESO U is sadly not deprived of either. I stopped interacting with the community there as well since the few times I bothered giving input on something I had people tell me rather dumb things and backed it up with something that boiled down to "I am better than you".
The ESO community as a whole is one of the most baffling I've ever been part of. So many nice and great people, but damn is the majority casual but they dont like to hear it. I have been called toxic for the most random reason. Once because I was top DPS in a dungeon. I wasnt bragging about it, hell didnt even mention it, but someone whispered me that "its toxic to go off so much in rdf, what if someone isnt so good and feels discouraged"... A lot of times I feel like people on ESO want better players to suck intentionally just to not get reminded that there in fact is a skill gap between players. The whole "everyone should be able to do, achieve and get anything whenever they feel like" mentality is what I really see as toxic not only in ESO but a whole lot of modern games.
but thats just it. People want to run their build that they enjoy. too many players act like the existence of a BiS setup just completely invalidates their build. its why i don't even bother helping in guilds anymore with build stuff. So many times I see people asking for help with their DPS or something, and while i don't mind helping, i don't care to get called toxic/elitist just for making suggestions on things they can change. It feels like people ask for help, and they just want you to say "looks good buddy! keep doing that and you'll be at 100k in no time!". The tipping point for me was when someone literally accused me of sabotaging their build by telling them that Light attack weaving would help their dps. They didnt think it made sense, and after explaining and showing them why it worked. they tried it for a day or two, then accused me of sabotaging their build and stopped talking to me. The whole idea of "Play how you want" is great. I'm all for running whatever build you want if it gets you through the content that you enjoy doing. but the amount of animosity towards anyone for running a more optimized setup is just asanine.
I have made up my mind to enjoy the game no matter what, every day I set a few goals and go after them. If someone hits me with negativity I brush it off and roll on, and try to stay chill with everyone. And if someone really gets in my face about something I tell them to blow me, and go right back to doing my own thing. I can't allow random people playing A GAME to piss all over my day. I have only been playing for a year on Xbox; and I have noticed that some people really really get intense about ESO, and that's okay. But it's also okay that I don't give a shit, and just want to relax when I'm off from work and play the game I payed hard earned money for.
Honestly this is probably my favorite video you’ve made. The passion and sincerity really came through. I used to flip at every patch change and all the PvP based changes. After realizing the sky wasn’t going to fall if a slight nerf comes in, I realized it was my attitude that was the problem in most cases. Content creators like you have helped me self reflect. Thanks.
Hi Nefas, great video. I agree with everything you’re saying. However, I think I can provide some insight as to why “casuals” (including toxic ones) are so frustrated, though I in no way condone their toxicity. At the end of the day, my frustration isn’t the fault of any end game player whatsoever. But for some of us, it feels very hard to keep up with the meta. For example, I’m only CP 820 despite playing since 2015. I’ve struggled with mental illness myself, divorce, relocating multiple times, etc. Every time I come back to the game, it feels more daunting than ever. I feel like I’m always chasing the meta. For starters, it is very hard for me to sit and grind the same thing over and over. Second, the lack of connections results in a lack of experience and practice. This leads to finally getting into a PUG a failure because I’m not familiar enough with the content. By the time I do finally get a meta set in the right trait, next update is out and my gear was nerfed and I have endgame players telling me “Just go get this new stuff.” I have joined guilds but do struggle with social anxiety. Some guilds have been very great. Others have felt “cliquey.” But most of the time, I feel alienated; using guild chat or discord to find people to run vet content with to farm said meta gear usually results in crickets. Then, 10-15 minutes later someone higher ranked in the guild will start talking about something random and a bunch of other people are suddenly active. This results in a large portion of ESO feeling “off-limits” to me. Only have done craglorn trials. Don’t have any “challenger” achievements getting me cool skins. No meta gear in my stickerbook. And here, all I want to do with my free time is hop on and play some fun, new content I might struggle at with friendly people. But it seems so perpetually out of reach. Again, I don’t condone the actions of toxics, but I can see how they would feel like those kids always shit talking the popular kids cause they’re always left out of the “meta” high school experience. So finally getting into a PUG and losing their chance at whatever they wanted out of their content is probably infuriating, as they don’t know when their next chance to play it will be. Hence, you have the DPS who can’t get meta gear, so gets annoyed when told to fix their setup, but also hypocritically hates dying so tells PUG healers and tanks what they should do better. For many casuals, endgame feels like a club only the popular kids are welcome to. And for many, “just be more social,” isn’t that easy or that viable.
I used to be bullied a lot. Turns out, it helped me in the long run. NOT only did I developed thick skin, I can spot them FROM A MILE AWAY, and shut them down quickly (if its troll dont get mad, dont feed) or find out what's frustrating them and hear them out, and for some reason they become your friend. Long story short, i can play solo. With randos. With guilds. With random guilds. With enemies. With people who hate others, with people who love everyone..... just be yourself. Dont let anyone bring you down. You're broke, and they are rich, money means nothing. You're rich, they are broke, treat people with respect, you never know if you're always gonna be rich. Have a home, be happy! Homeless, be happy! Life is all about choices, not about the "other" people. But I do understand in a MMORPG .... you should expect to play with others. In other words (sorry I forgot why I was writing in the first place) long story short, if you are still playing games, and you see DeeOhAreKay, invite me!
As a preamble: I'm a casual mid-tier player around CP 1000, I have a very old account but didn't play at all for 4 years - returned in 2019. I've noticed a lot of toxic behaviour lately, particularly in vet dungeons: in one case the group was one boss in and the Healer comes up in chat: "The DPS is slightly on the low side - I'm out" - I was one of the DPS's in the group and the other had a low CP compared to the rest of us (mid-400s). We waited another 10 minutes before giving in and abandoning the dungeon, nevermind the half-hour wait in the queue before even starting. There does appear to be a strong element of 'play my way' or get out in a lot of the group content of late. Perhaps the problem is that lately the automatic reaction to seeing anyone underperform is to castigate rather than offer advice or at least constructive criticism, hell even ignoring it and playing on would be preferable, I suppose the temptation to scream git gud noob is too much to resist.
Watching this in 2022, after the Update 35 changes have been announced, this hits even harder... Though, having played FF14 at a pretty high level previously, as bad as this issue is in ESO, it's actually way WAY worse over there...
Thank you for posting this video. I love playing eso, only been playing for a couple months, but I don't play the dungeons because I am scared of making a mistake and upsetting anyone who is in there with me.
Got some of the endgame trial achievements still missing GS/DB/PB. I've been playing since alpha/beta. I've quit maybe 6 weeks into Blackwood. The sludge/drek i have to got through to get into solid groups that don't dissolve after 2/3 runs and think of themselves as above average players is ridiculous. I think this mostly, just an assumption though, comes from the huge difficulty spikes the different contents have. The turnover in this game is so high that consistency is horrible. Might come back might nog.. i have some good solid memories with ESO. I hope the game and the community gets its shit together. I find it sad to find a video like this, it should have never come this far. Keep up the good work Nefas!
Casual players are not the problem; toxic players are. Lumping those two terms together is not necessary, nor helpful. In gaming, so long as performance (ie, progress, efficiency, BiS) is considered more imporant and valuable than the treatment of other players, the problem of toxicity will persist whether casuals are the majority or minority.
Well said. I can't be sad that some of the less kind peeps have left. A few years back I was trying to explore Imperial City (well more than a few years, this was back when it wasn't free and you had to travel across Cyrodiil to get in) and I didn't have a group, wandered around in the sewers and got killed over and over and over again by Fengrush (yeah, big tough 14th level clueless me was SUCH a challenge), tried wandering to different parts of it, using different doors and such, but after too many deaths, I logged out and did something else. I get it - I'll get killed in PvP type content, but being so tirelessly pursued for (after the first few deaths) no telvar, no gold, no experience...well I'm hard pressed to NOT call that toxic.
After nearly 4000 hours, I think I can honestly say the worst toxicity I encountered was a predator (this creep was a groomer who saw I was having a very bad time with my life at that time and he made sure he backed me into a virtual corner and basically told me I was his new girlfriend and got really pushy and “politely aggressive” when I kept trying to tell him “look I’m going through shit I don’t need this right now because your making it really hard to figure my life out”) this creep was so manipulative that as soon as he figured out I was a female, I quit being a player and I turned into a fuckin trophy to achieve. He would randomly show up in my player houses, In the maps I was in, he’d force me to use a mic despite me not ever wanting to because I have severe Social anxiety and don’t even make phone calls often. This dude gave off the impression that he was trying to lure me out to traffic me and that really took alot of the magick out of ESO for me. It never felt the same after all that shit went down because it caused alot of trouble with my mental health as well as my relationship and even after a year of it being over, sometimes whenever I log on for my dailies I start feeling watched and just log off without completing my dailies. I used to be such a hardcore, all day everyday player and that one bad experience really left a mental impression of how unsafe ESO is for women. I no longer interact with ANYONE, I don’t keep my chat on, I have my “friend request” garbage set to automatically reject and delete any requests, I have completely turned eso into a single player experience to the best of my ability because it’s now the only way I can feel ok playing it. I agree with what this guy says about feeling like ESO is a sort of home and how it really, REALLY fuckin hurts to feel unwelcome or unsafe. It sucks having something that used to help suddenly turn into something that leaves you feeling absolutely disgusting
Hey. May be a bit late to the party but just want to say that as another female in eso, I can definitely relate to your story. I also got a stalker from this game and he still constantly tries to add me in social media for years now :) What I am saying is, if you want to enjoy eso again you can feel comfortable in a female dominated guild. Those are often wholesome and toxicity-free. Most importantly, you can tell anyone about the predator and action will be taken. Sisters never leave each other behind✌️ So yeah consider my offer, I can introduce you to our witches coven.
Extremely important video. It's amazing how irrational the positivity cult is. Since these guys are the majority, developers listen to them in order to keep generating profit, but it destroys the game. Creativity by committee is abhorrent because the vast majority of people do not have the experience necessary to suggest good changes. I'm also appalled by how aggressively certain content creators in every game try to attack disagreement entirely. If you disagree with something the devs do, you are "toxic," or a "troll." These guys just want to consoom endlessly without thinking, apparently.
This is perfectly exemplified in the overland feedback thread in the official forums. Lots of players, new and old, find overland extremely boring and wish the combat in the main story was more engaging and fun. But there is a very vocal minority that tells us to just to be happy with the endgame group content. They’ve literally accused us of creating multiple accounts to fake support for harder story content.
I tend to avoid guilds and pvp things and do the "solo" content, I also have the text chat and area voice chat turned off so I can enjoy the sights and sounds in the game even tho I have over 600cp I have never played the veteran dungeons or such things, this video was enjoyable and enlightening thanks for that
I've been playing ESO since Beta. I made a lot of friends raiding, PvE/PvPing, running casual guilds and then eventually trade guilds. I switch between high end and casual playing very often. I do whatever is fun for the moment and I enjoy seeing players get the most out of their gaming experience, no matter which content they're happy playing. If you enjoy something, go for it. Go at it alone or with a pack of friends and have the fun you deserve. A fellow GM gave me some good advice and it stuck. Turn off the negativity/toxicity you see and hear. Say your side of the issue constructively and in peace. Then walk away. Don't waste valuable time arguing and fighting back no matter how much bait is dangling on the line in the chats, streams and forums. Do what you want and play with those who have interests aligning at least partially with yours. There are toxic people and chill people on both sides of the elite and casual fence. There is no better playstyle than another. Whatever and however you want to play is valid. Some players will find a way to rationalise what they want until the point where it crosses into your boundaries. Tune out what you don't want. Then lean into the things you do like. In the end, each of our interactions are like ripples in the pond. If we answer toxicity, it spreads. If we answer a call for fun, it spreads. We, as players, are in control of which ripples we leave behind. If we want to see more positive ripples than negative ones, we only have to spread the fun within the game. Have an amazing day playing whatever way you like.
It almost hurts to hear it laid out like this - but I cannot doubt any of it. Toxicity certainly exists in all aspects, games modes and games - but these ideas that everything has to be easy, everything has to be given for free and things that requires time, effort, skill or any combination of the three are innately "anti-community" or "toxic," have been running rampant of late. Yeah, toxic elitists exists, I've had the displeasure of meeting a handful, but I've almost certainly met significantly more toxic casuals.
Meeting more toxic casuals is inherently going to happen, because there are way way more total casuals in the pool to draw from than there are end game elitists. IE- If you have 10000 casuals and 10% of them are "toxic", that is 1000 total, if there are 1000 end game players in comparison, you could have 25% of them be toxic, and you'd still see more toxic casual players, because they make up more of the player base in totality. But in this situation the end game is still more toxic overall, because half of them are toxic. (2.5 times more toxic, per capita of players)
When I started about a year ago I was really put off by comments and advanced players disappearing in the middle of a dungeon because I kept dying. For that reason I don’t use dungeon finder unless it’s something I can’t do without. Even though I’m not that character anymore, it’s only been a couple of weeks that I’ve forced myself to go to battlegrounds. Just didn’t want to deal with feeling like a total loser. This is a massive game( I learn something every time I play), and I really appreciate advanced players like you that do try to help newer players. So, thank you!
Most of the time is the elitist in my guilds wanting to carry the rest of us in raids. Theyll be "looking for players for x raid will carry and teach mechs."
Literally my first time trying to tank I got called a fake tank by a literal noob. Some bosses ignore taunts and that's what was happening, instead of listening to my explanation of how the boss works im ignored and this noob tries to vote me out the group hahaha.
28:18 👏🏽 👏🏽 Great Video. Everyone loves to throw the toxic card at the PVP community and end game PVE community simply because it’s not the way they play THEIR game. RIP to the toxic casuals. Sharing this.
I've been building up a small community dedicated to getting new ppl into end-game for about a year now, we're just above 300+ people now, and most of them became friends or regulars after seeing a lot of effort from more experienced players to help them out and get them to do content despite fears based on what they've seen in other guilds or Craglorn. We've had several groups completing all the trials on vet with groups consisting of cp200, working on individual builds and performance. I've encountered probably around a dozen of those aggressively bad players, joining us, telling everyone how to play, and then victimizing themselves and leaving in tears with their 30cpm, probably complaining somewhere else about how unfairly they were treated. But I've never seen them "win" because they just never get enough attention or publicity on the server, they don't survive in healthy communities. As soon as someone comes and tries to give emotions-driven advice ("META IS EVIL because my uncle harassed me when I was 7") they get countered with facts and data, and never have anything to say apart from blaming everyone around and leaving. Yes, they engage moderators and we need quick reactions to mitigate possible bullshit they're spreading, but that's about it. Where they win are the platforms that are dedicated to sharing opinions without moderation. Facebook or Twitter are two smoking heaps of opinionated self-victimizing group identity? What a shocker. If you don't give them any publicity where you can moderate it and, as you suggested, focus on showing the complexity and beauty of the game to the people who are making the choice about what group to join, they will never win. I genuinely love your approach and passion. But wishing them to get fucked in the ass forever and opening a video with "if you're one of those fucking idiots, block my channel" will just give trolls more food to prove their points and more doubt for people who you can potentially win over. Idiot numbers always grow faster. Don't go down to their level.
r/elderscrollsonline is in this video and they hate it. If you promote anything meta you get shit on but if you promote bad dps, healing, tanking under the guise of having fun at the expense of the others in the group you are praised. It’s sickening.
I didn't actually experience this until I joined a rp community. I was the positive one. I enjoy Endgame PvE, I love PvP, but I also love Rping and immersive Questing. Id never seen these people so passionate about how much they didn't want to do veteran content. And God forbid if I even brought up PvP. They treated me like I was unwelcomed. They purposely separated me from them, for liking all that the game has to offer. Makes me sad.
I agree with most of this video, especially because this was something brought up in WoW a while ago. But... I absolutely wholeheartedly disagree with the fake tanking and fake healing being a non-issue. Only once since I've played ESO since 2015, have I ever seen a fake tank that actually kept aggro. I'd get annoyed because I'd wait in DPS queue... Only to end up having to tank it because the default aggro went to me doing the most damage. And I'm not being humble or anything, I suck at ESO. So it says a lot that I'd be better than the "fake" tank. If someone is going to fake a roll, they need to be able to carry the group. This is why when I came back to ESO, I just rolled tank. It's easier and more fun than DPSing for me. But just last week there was a fake healer in my group, I didn't bring it up till the end of the dungeon after, and I promise I'm not making it up, him dying the most, doing so little damage that I as the tank was doing 35-40% of the damage... And for him to actually be an ass at the end of the dungeon when I called him out on it. It's so rare that I see someone in a fake roll that actually carries. Otherwise, I do agree with I think everything else in the video. It's just this stuck out to me so much...
I've played Everquest for an absolute shitload of time, and to me, in mmorpgs it never matters to me what I end up doing, as long as we don't die and we do whatever we are trying to do. I don't give a shit if I'm a cleric healer and I end up having to tank, or if I am a monk puller tanking, or if I am a necro using fear as a CC mechanism. All of that shit is irrelevant if I am having fun, and we don't die.
Been playing on/off since the game came out and I'm level 1400+, finally decided to build a Tank. I've Tanked, successfully, some Vet trials and Dungeons. I've ran into some of the most Toxic players that have been so cruel I've nearly stopped playing any character. I almost didn't renew ESO Plus because this is my escape from being disabled. My character gets to be strong and able bodied. I love watching myself run and take hits that DPS and Healers can't and I nearly allowed this very toxicity ruin my escape. Thank you for posting this! Thankfully my guild supports and stands up to the toxicity!
seriously dude, I appreciate people like you trying to speak up and sticking around to help try to make the game better. Ive seen every single point you talked about since I came back 6 months ago. I went, holy crap what the hell happened to this gaming community...its starting to remind me of League of Legends community, which is the most toxic community Ive seen in my entire life. I really hope the route things are going currently can do a hard stop and veer off
League is truly toxic - ESO is not... really... its an odd comment here or there - 99% of the folks are cool and having fun in a game -> in LOL its just always there....
