The Class that made 200 Child Nazis | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

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The Class that made 200 Child Nazis | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
Garrison Davis is joined by Robert Evans to discuss The Third Wave.
Original Air Date: February 11, 2021
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There’s a reason the History Channel has produced hundreds of documentaries about Hitler but only a few about Dwight D. Eisenhower. Bad guys (and gals) are eternally fascinating. Behind the Bastards dives in past the Cliffs Notes of the worst humans in history and exposes the bizarre realities of their lives. Listeners will learn about the young adult novels that helped Hitler form his monstrous ideology, the founder of Blackwater’s insane quest to build his own Air Force, the bizarre lives of the sons and daughters of dictators and Saddam Hussein’s side career as a trashy romance novelist.
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27 май 2024

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Комментарии : 95

@MrPooleish 10 месяцев назад

Every few minutes I think to myself "this can't get much worse, someone HAS to stop this" and every I'm wrong. Every single time.

@TrollOfReason 7 месяцев назад

Deference to der furher, & the breakdown of the system to actually enforce its own rules. It's part of the process.

@SteverenoOFFICIAL 10 месяцев назад

I feel like Sophie is somehow avenged by the topic in this episode. There are parts where Garrison makes Robert sound as miserable as he usually makes Sophie sound 😂 Stay strong, Sophie!

@Bluecho4 7 месяцев назад

Garrison learned from the best.

@Sephiel263 10 месяцев назад

I am from Germany and The Wave is not required reading and never has been. It is a very popular book (and movie) but it is not in any school curriculum. In fact there are no required reading books anywhere here. You are required to read a novella in 9th grade but which one is up to the teacher. There are some suggestions but the ultimate decision is not dictated.

@KaiTenSatsuma 10 месяцев назад

Odd that so many outlets insist it's required reading 🤔

@c.w.8200 10 месяцев назад

I could have sworn Die Leiden des Jungen Werther is mandatory, everyone I know had to read that, thankfully it's short 😂😭

@marocat4749 10 месяцев назад

Its probbly on the encouraged in class list, but not required. But it might be seen as o to book how easy things can go wrong there. and tht was real, holy crap.no wonder tht teacher s friend with zimbardo, i respect his rdmption arc of exploring auhority and did hire n actor this tme wit fake shocks. the breakers are based, an pretty good name, there in a anga the breaker thats always good.

@luiseneas 10 месяцев назад

I think you will find that "required reading" became shorthand for any book or author that is in a list of pre approved material by some government body or institution. They might cycle them every 10 years or so.

@dietzlel1423 10 месяцев назад

I'm currently studying to become a German teacher in Germany and in my state there are no specific books required on the curriculum, which I think is also the case in most other states. This is mostly due to a change in the last decade to more open curriculum's with more freedom for the teachers to use literature that they believe could be of interest and useful for their particular students. The reason the same books show up again and again everywhere is that they already have a lot of additional material published, which makes it a lot easier for a German teacher to use "Faust" or "The Wave" or some older, popular school literature compared to newer works that would require a lot more work on the side of the teacher to use and prepare.

@HyenaDandy 4 месяца назад

I think there's some criticism of the way that the Third Wave experiment is presented that's worth noting, because a fair number of statements about the extent to which it actually made people into Nazis are worth questioning. (Also note that the musical was directed by Jones, but written primarily by students from the class)

@trioptimum9027 9 месяцев назад

To be fair to his students, apparently this dude wasn't just a high school history teacher, he was also a guy with Mao's cell number. "Yeah, this is part of a national political movement" isn't quite such a stretch from the guy who put you on the phone with the Great Steersman last semester, right?

@TheSimoncousins 10 месяцев назад

Was a followup ever done on the class to see how many members moved into other Far right groups?

@chrisball3778 10 месяцев назад

I do wonder if- like the Stanford Prison Experiment- the apparent success of the Third Wave was exaggerated due to the participants wanting to play along with the project to please their charismatic teacher. By his own admission, he did it right after teaching his class about Nazi Germany, so the original participants would all have been aware of the context and that there was an expectation that they'd behave in a certain way if placed in that environment. At least some may have been either deliberately or subconsciously role-playing at being fascists and anti-fascists rather than being true believers. Unfortunately, the whole thing was so wildly unethical that there'll hopefully be no way to ever know if it would work under more controlled conditions.

@marocat4749 10 месяцев назад

given theywerefriends, probably

@antediluvianatheist5262 10 месяцев назад

Stanford prison exp was mostly debunked by the participants later.

@suddenlysarablog 10 месяцев назад

Thing is, tho, I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction, as we see play out in real life. How often do we see people aping fascist patterns, sharing fascist memes, making fascist jokes, and then when called on it, say, "It's just a joke, bro." Doesn't matter, you're still spreading fascism. So whether the students were "actually" radicalized into fascism or just playing along because they thought that's what their teacher wanted, the outcome was the same, and that's STILL a powerful message.

@Myrzghe 10 месяцев назад

It's also from that time where every psychology studies were wildly exaggerated, and this sounds a lot like some of those. Just the fact that it's not clear if he did it once or three times says a lot. And I have a strong feeling that he wanted this result, and wrote things to fit the narrative

@sunyavadin 8 месяцев назад

Zimbardo, Milgram, and most probably this guy too were frauds who falsified their research.

@TwoWholeWorms 4 месяца назад

The thing that really gets me about this is that it all happened over just five _days._ It's astonishing.

@paulliniger418 8 месяцев назад

Sophie: I thought they came for your sparkling personality, Robert. Robert: Uhh, no. No, they come for the child abuse.

@Novur 10 месяцев назад

1:15:11 you mean Brandon Lee, and unfortunately you've activated my trap card. Copy-pasting from a comment I left on another video four years ago because this story (and the common incorrect retelling) is a particular bugbear of mine 😅 Brandon's character in The Crow is shot with a revolver, meaning that the camera (and audience) can see from the outside if there are bullets in the cartridges chambered in the cylinder. The gunshot was filmed in two takes, the first being with fake dummy rounds so that you see the gun looking like it has bullets in it, and the second being with blanks so that you see muzzle flash and smoke, and then cut together in post for a single cohesive firing. HOWEVER, instead of buying inert rounds that were just pieces of metal turned on a lathe to look like real cartridges, the prop department took LIVE ROUNDS, pulled out the bullet, tipped out the powder, and stuck the bullet back in. What they DIDN'T do was remove the primer (for the uninitiated - the primer is the pressure-sensitive element on the back of the round that the hammer of the gun strikes to create a small explosion, which in turn ignites the gunpowder). The primer alone isn't powerful enough to get a bullet up to lethal velocity, but it IS powerful enough to push the bullet into the barrel. When the props department then loaded the gun with blanks for the next take, they didn't check and clear the barrel of the gun, either due to negligence or inexperience. Since blanks are essentially just live rounds with a wad of paper in place of a bullet, if you stick a bullet in front of one then you have essentially the same lethality as a normal gunshot. When the unsuspecting actor pointed what he thought was a noisemaker at Brandon and pulled the trigger, Brandon received a typical gunshot wound, and subsequently died from it.

@chrisball3778 10 месяцев назад

It's an easy mistake to make given the weirdly similar explanation used in-film to excuse Bruce Lee being replaced with another actor in much of the theatrical release of Game of Death, following his premature death during filming. It's one of the weirdest coincidences in the history of cinema.

@alucard347 8 месяцев назад

This is actually required reading in israel. Didnt exactly help there with fascism considering rhe current government, but at least someone in the israeli education system once decided that everyone should read this fuck up.

@alejandrorivas4585 4 месяца назад

It comforts me to know some of you in israel are not okay with whats happening.

@alucard347 4 месяца назад

@@alejandrorivas4585 well, we are in a political doom spiral for a few years now, the netanyahu regime attempted to abolish the separation of powers, and now this war... Yeah, even the blind know things are fucked here.

@caitlin228 9 месяцев назад

They showed us the '81 movie in school (I can't remember what grade). I had no idea it was based on a true story. The lessons of the film really stuck with me

@joshinthewoods 7 месяцев назад

I can still very clearly remember the visuals from when I saw the movie in school. Good to know things were even more horrifying than I remember.

@siobhanroberts2329 9 месяцев назад

There's a kids book about this and a sweet valley twins ripoff of said book. Also, I feel like if my kid came home and told me their teacher was making kids into nazis my first thought wouldn't be "let's make posters".

@sholem_bond 2 месяца назад

Okay I have to know how Sweet Valley Twins handled this shit, because that sounds bonkers

@siobhanroberts2329 2 месяца назад

@sholem_bond Well, they bring in a new kid to be Hitler because it can't be a member of the core cast and his name is Brian, I believe, and we know he's cool and edgy because he has a black t-shirt and jeans and is snarkier than Bruce Patman. The entire Unicorn club thinks he's hot even though he's only in the 6th grade, just like hitler. He gets there just in time to start the holocaust unit in history! Amazing timing! And they're going to pick teams for some reason, why could this be? Brian is the leader of one of the teams. Brian's Youth start wearing black armbands around the school and popular kids in other grades obviously want to join this exclusive black armband club but Gasp! Brian is a bully and he wants Brian's youth to exclude people from the other group! And he exerts pressure on others to get them to carry out his will! Eventually they shove a kid in a locker (maybe Randy? Can't remember who) and Jessica realized that they had been Just Like The Nazis All Along and everyone rejects Brian until he comes back later and we realize he's Hitler because his dad is hitting him and hit = Hitler, but don't worry, Elizabeth handles all that because this is actually a huge eugenics experiment and the adults in Sweet Valley are nothing more than scientists taking notes and blending in. The Unicorn Club takes off their nazi armbands and return to wearing purple and tricking the fat girl into eating shaving cream on a sundae. #justiceforlois And they never speak of it again.

@sananaryon4061 4 месяца назад

one of the few reasons im glad i took German in high school is that we watched Die Welle, the german movie based on this event

@Coffeemancer 10 месяцев назад

Do you recommend any podcast about engineering disasters, with slides?

@ZeketheZealot 10 месяцев назад

I too would like to know of a podcast about engineering disasters, with slides. I would be especially enthralled if they opened each episode with banter followed by Topical News, and ended with user-submitted stories of dangerous on-the-job happenstances!

@GuerillaBunny 10 месяцев назад

RU-vid keeps recommending me a podcast called "Well there's your problem", which seems to focus on engineering failures and disasters, but I've seen them do other topics too.

@seanomatopoeia 9 месяцев назад

@coffeemancer does the podcast itself need to be a disaster?

@bakern00 10 месяцев назад

Garrison knocks one out of the park! shocking how quickly his spun out of control...yikes

@thomaswillard6267 2 месяца назад

What does this comment mean?

@notoriouswhitemoth 10 месяцев назад

It sounds to me like he got his point across: _you are susceptible, this time it stopped before anyone was killed, never let anyone do this to you again_

@DissertatingMedieval Месяц назад

They made an after school special about this. I remember watching it as a kid.

@HyenaDandy 4 месяца назад

There are some aspects in which I feel like Garrison was largely presenting the most sensationalized version of events, because there are a few aspects that I think are at least worth mentioning. And to be clear, this doesn't necessarily mean that these make things irrelevant or this class ethical, but should at least be said. 1) It's largely speculation that a member of the school paper was beaten up for writing about the class. This certainly didn't happen AFTER an article was published, because we have the school paper from the period, and it wasn't mentioned. However, it may have happened before. Even if that was the case, however, many of the students who worked on the school paper were regularly bullied or assaulted by other students. In other words, 2) Some students have said that what was more traumatic for them was not that the experience of being part of "The Wave," but the fact that at the assembly Jones treated it as if they had been fully indoctrinated into a fascist movement, when they had already assumed that the "Third Wave" was intended to imitate fascism and explain how fascist movements functioned by demonstration. So they felt hurt that the teacher they looked up to was shaming them for, from their perspective, trying to participate in class and learn about fascism in the same way he taught about other things. 3) Even among students who were not fully aware that the point of the Third Wave project was to illustrate fascism, and thus were not intentionally acting like fascists because they thought the point was to try to learn about fascism by acting like fascists, at least some said (though this being after the fact, one may take this with a grain of salt) that at no point did they genuinely think this was a political movement. 4) The term didn't exist at the time, but Mr. Jones had previously used the library as something that we today would probably call a 'safe space' for students who were concerned about being 'triggered' by the lesson plan. This again does not make it 'okay,' but it does mean that "If you have a problem with this go to the library" was being applied more strictly or rapidly, rather than being a totally new thing. 5) This was not an experiment, or at least not intended to be one. It was a lesson plan. When Mr. Jones said that he was not able to explain why people would find something in it, it wasn't that he didn't understand why, but rather that his explanations didn't seem to process. That's why he decided to do the Third Wave project, to answer the question that he hadn't otherwise been able to. 6) This is very picky, but Mr. Jones did not write the musical on his own. He directed it, but two of the students were also writing it. Presenting it as if this is a thing he thought up himself makes it seem very self-aggrandizing, when the musical was something that former students (by now in their 50s) had wanted to do along with him. I'm not saying this isn't bad, just saying that I think that it was made to sound worse than it was.

@thomaswillard6267 2 месяца назад

For points 1-4, those don't dispute what was presented? It doesn't matter if people were previously bullied, fascism targets already marginalized groups. If anything it is a classic example of syncretism. It doesn't matter if kids deep down knew it wasn't real, they were still compliant. Much like the Little People of Nazi Germany (See: "How Nice, Normal People made the Holocaust Happen") their compliance because it's what they are 'supposed' to do is tantamount to being a genuine believer at the end of the day. As for the library, just because it had been at one point intended with compassion, once it becomes enforced as a punishment it has changed. All 4 of those things are things we would expect to see in an actual fascist movement.

@HyenaDandy 2 месяца назад

@@thomaswillard6267 "It doesn't matter if people were previously bullied, fascism targets already marginalized groups. If anything it is a classic example of syncretism." - I want to reiterate what point one was, which is that we don't actually know if anyone at the school paper was beaten up over this at all. Not that we know they were, but I'm saying it doesn't matter because they were likely to get beaten up anyway so the influence of the Third Wave is irrelevant. I would hope we could agree that there is evidence that violence against marginalized groups INCREASES under fascism, yes? My point was that there's little evidence that violence occurred at all during the period. Does that mean it DIDN'T? Absolutely not. But it means that at least one way the events have been discussed (the paper being critical) is provably false, and other options (i.e. that the paper might have been going to be critical but the violence prevented it) are at least somewhat questionable. Unless things have changed, when it comes to that aspect of the story, nobody affiliated with the school paper, nor any of the bullies, have actually come forward and provided any details. Nor has anyone (again, to my knowledge, this may have changed) discovered any sort of police or school disciplinary report. "Much like the Little People of Nazi Germany (See: "How Nice, Normal People made the Holocaust Happen") their compliance because it's what they are 'supposed' to do is tantamount to being a genuine believer at the end of the day." The 'Little People' of Nazi Germany were in fact well aware that the Nazi party was a political movement. There's a difference between "I'm not going to make waves I'll just go with this" and "I am eager to learn what makes people want to be fascists, and I am doing this to find that." We're relying on eyewitness reports from decades after the fact, and that means this small form of legendary accretion will happen. Am I saying that these refute the entire concept? Absolutely not. Just that these things are important context to understand what occurred then.

@smileyp4535 9 месяцев назад

I learned about this in school too, and I'm ngl I think he had good intentions because the point was to show how easy it is to fall for facism and in hindsight sure it seems like yeah duh it's a bad idea but I can see why, especially in the 60s, this could seem like a good idea at the time.

@DavidDylanFisher 9 дней назад

I'm not a perfect person, and I know lots of people say to themselves "couldn't happen to me," but I can say this wouldn't happen to me: I hate being part of a group. I hate chants, I hate group activities, I hate being part of a team. I want to do my own thing and not be bothered.

@SteverenoOFFICIAL 10 месяцев назад

I learned a bit about this in high school psychology, but nowhere near this amount of detail. This is an insanely unethical "study" but it happened and we should make use of the insights it provides. Holy shit...it just keeps getting worse, but I was laughing along with Garrison. I want a Garrison playlist. They have no right to be so upbeat and positive with the shit they know. ❤

@HyenaDandy 4 месяца назад

@rorylynch1203 10 месяцев назад

It seems like Mao was really generous with his time when ordinary people from the west reached out wanting to know about communism.

@user-fy4uv9wb7o 10 месяцев назад

Hold up. So were there any black kids in his class? What did they think either in the class or outside of it watching this go down?

@pamkryglik9719 9 месяцев назад

I'm angry that the school librarian didn't go to the teacher or the admins when the first student was banished to the library.

@KaiTenSatsuma 10 месяцев назад

15:08 - And here I thought they had cut the *_Critical Thinking_* aspect of the US K-12 education system as I left it, seems like it wasn't present 60 years ago either. Fuck me, am I the *only* one who remembered shit week to week?

@marocat4749 10 месяцев назад

That are 15 year olds, its not that hard influencing 15 years old on average. its wild that it was allowed allong as it did but else. teenager are impresionable.

@KaiTenSatsuma 10 месяцев назад

@@marocat4749 It's wild that people think reading something like Mein Kampf in 8-12 is a *good idea* It isn't an education about "how fascism" it's an entry into "how fascism" We literally have the Nuremburg archives, including video from the camps. *_that_* is an education on fascism.

@marocat4749 10 месяцев назад

@@KaiTenSatsuma i mean the book has it not asmessy and still hammering home, and if thats readin school, its with enough talking about , all that you talk about, the horrors and discriminating leading there. The third wave is more the " how easy it could hapen to you"

@jobreakstheinternet5100 10 месяцев назад

If it helps, I have ADHD and I remember.

@Balien_Darkblade 9 месяцев назад

This event is absolutely wild. How easy it is for disenfranchised people to be manipulated, inflated with power and then watching the balloon pop. This was only 5 days with a small group of kids. Just the thought of knowing this exact thing happened to millions of people and the balloon popped for them too, the actions, trauma caused, and repercussions made that the entire world has to live with. Just....I wish I had the words! This experiment is completely fucked but boy does it ever give insight.

@williamkarbala5718 8 месяцев назад

All in favor of having a kitten wearing an arm band with three arrows on be the new symbol of Antifa?

@matthollywood8060 8 месяцев назад

When you mentioned info tables, why did my mind immediately go to Steven Crowder?

@nathanrohde3292 10 месяцев назад

Charles Flynn and other officials delaying the deployment of the national guard was indirect military involvement.

@melalbertson3191 9 месяцев назад

Um…my ex husband did something very similar with his 7th grade class. Yikes!

@tauronmitronion377 9 месяцев назад

Hold up, did Garrison do the same homeschool curriculum as me?

@rapchee 10 месяцев назад

oh that's why there's no half life, portal, etc 3

@ZBott 3 месяца назад

A gonzo teacher who followed the fascist cookbook to teach a lesson doesn't bother me enough to ban this guy from being an educator. Making him limited to just the lesson plan makes more sense.

@firefox5926 10 месяцев назад

1:16:48 i wonder how those 200 kids now ..those who are still alive vote

@chompytv8591 10 месяцев назад

21:00 Ooooh, that’s why there’s no Half Life 3.

@chompytv8591 10 месяцев назад

Also, doesn’t the explanation of the name sound like fascist dog-whistling? Feel like that’s the point. “You are not immune to propaganda.”

@robertsyrett1992 9 месяцев назад

Maybe it's for the best that Palo Alto closed down Cubberley high school.

@majuuorthrus3340 3 месяца назад

Um. How much of this was an experiment and how much of this was a power trip?

@MCDreng 19 дней назад

12:04 you harp on him for saying Richard Wagner wrong and then pronounce Hitlerjugend as Hitler Jewgend

@capsjukebox 10 месяцев назад

A cat with a Nazi arm band would be a Catzi

@thebeardprevails5246 10 месяцев назад

I just want to raise a concern about the views expressed at about the hour and 10 minute mark that this guy shouldn't be allowed to teach anyone ever again. The idea of eternal punishment even after a person has recognized and apologized for the mistakes they've made is problematic. If you tell people who have done wrong that there is no point in acknowledging it or trying to better themselves and make amends because they can't be redeemed then you remove any incentive for growth or change. You're polishing the other side of the fascist coin by incentivizing people who have been caught up to double down and stick with it because the alternative is exile from both communities.

@stgjr 10 месяцев назад

I took it as an immediate emotional gut reaction to the case but this is still a good point. The guy wasn't unapologetic, he started something to be insightful and found himself riding the tiger. He should've immediately sat them down the moment he learned they were taking it that seriously and told them "see, you've started down that path", IMHO, and at least should've done his video trick on the fourth day instead of the fifth. He made mistakes and clearly learned from them.

@floraposteschild4184 9 месяцев назад

Yes, I'm sure many people want a charismatic guy with very poor judgement, and an enormous ego (what else can you call someone who let this experiment run out to the end of real violence and oppression?) to teach their children. This is not a "mistake" -- a mistake is picking the wrong parking spot or putting on odd socks. This is an ego trip which at best he should have known better about, and at worst is sociopathic.

@thebeardprevails5246 9 месяцев назад

@@floraposteschild4184 As far as I can see this dude spent the rest of his career teaching and advocating for children with special needs so I'm not sure where you get sociopath in that. it's also important to understand the intent of the experiment which was to demonstrate to children that fascism doesn't start with a holocaust, it advertises itself as a sense of community and purpose. He probably decided to try to demonstrate how insidious it is after hearing the same question every year "how could the germans let the nazis rise to power, I wouldn't have let that happen" That is an important lesson, fascism doesn't show up and say vote for me I want to steal all your money and put your neighbours in camps. It says We are special and we have to protect what is special about us, and we have to celebrate that. That's the bait on the hook that he was trying to show. He wasn't trying to hurt children, he was trying to educate through experience. He tried something new, and it had a negative consequence. That doesn't make him a monster who needs to be stopped from teaching.

@floraposteschild4184 9 месяцев назад

@@thebeardprevails5246 Yes, I'm sure he enjoyed influencing young minds. If you really can't see it, all I can suggest is listening again and imagining this happening to your own children.

@joearnold6881 9 месяцев назад

Sorry, but if you do something horrible at one job, you can be redeemed without ever being given that same job back and it is no way “polishing the other side of the fascist coin”. 🙄 Don’t minimize fascism like that, especially not in these times when it’s resurgent. Stopping someone returning to a position of authority they abused even if they’re sorry is _nothing like_ the other side of the coin to it. Nobody is entitled to teach. Redemption has nothing to do with being allowed to do something again or not. If he learned his lesson, awesome. He won’t accidentally make any Nazis in his next line of work, _not_ teaching children. There’s nothing that inhibits growth, change, or redemption about it.