The Conflicted Horror of DEAR EVAN HANSEN | Explained 

Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box]

"sympathetic"

True, true. I mean, for me (who relied on the tracks to know the story because I’m thousands of miles away from where the show is being staged and performed) the thing that made me really connect with the musical we’re the parents POVs because it helped me process my complicated relationship with my parents. [And to some degree, also related to Connor. At least this one fanon version of him from the only DEH fic I ever read. Because I had a mood disorder that resulted in a lot of very angry outbursts, and I just connected with Connor more than I ever did Evan.]

He really isn’t that sympathetic dude

@@artemisfowldragon than you missed the point

Agreed, they should have kept "Good for You", since it shows how everyone around Evan suffers from his Web of lies, not just him.

They also cut Anybody Have a Map?, one of the shortest musical numbers that also manages to perfectly encapsulate each character before we spend any real time with them. I'll never understand that choice.

Literally!!

@@trinaq Good For You's one of my favorite songs in the musical, it sucks that they cut that out!!

@@trinaq Why would they cut that song out? Like not only is it important for character, its also a banger

yo your video was great

Oh my gosh it's the funny tomato crab guy

It's the Crab!!!!!

Yeahhhhhhhh…

Schaff!!!!!!

WHAT!??? !!!...WHY? WHAT WAS THE POINT OF CASTING AMY ADAMS? 😵☠️☠️☠️☠️

why have giselle herself in your movie if you're going to steal her big number ;_;

@@alejandrocervantes3624 That's....stupid. I mean, was it never planned or did they film it then cut it? Because that's idiotic.

They are not there?!!

good for you is pivotal to the story bc evan actually starts to receive consequences. why the hell did they take it out ugh

BRILLIANT!

I love him in the movie

@@notactuallywill3620 lol I love the actor, he’s great in atypical if you haven’t seen it!

Even Conner was a terrible person that abused his sister and others around him but we’re supposed to feel for him because he killed himself. I personally don’t care if an asshole is suicidal. The sister is the only good character.

@@witchplease9695 Well, in the movie Zoe is a good character, but in the musical, she's not a great person, either. Also, it's unclear whether or not Connor was *actually* a bad person, since we only get to know him from Zoe's point of view.

🎶Teenage suicide Don't do it🎶

And ironically Heathers was an amazing movie *before* it was a musical.

I think the movie is better than the musical but yeah

@@lucapeyrefitte6899 Same.

@@lucapeyrefitte6899 yes but the tracksound has real bangers.

Yeah....also can't get 9ver how creepy it is he uses Conners death to try slid in to "be there for her" when his real end game was to date the little sister. Like ...geeze.....maybe he would have been friend if weren't so creepy. Like how he know she did puzzles on back cereal unless watches her in morning???

Same. I hated the plot so much I couldn't finish it. The main character is *such* a shitty person.

I have some friends that love theater, like Hamilton and stuff like that. But when they told me about the plot for this one, I could feel myself getting progressively more uncomfortable the more I thought about it.

@@owenmaleski2203 I also had some friends really into theatre who explained the plot to me and kept saying "But when you explain the bare bones of the musical it sounds really bad but it's actually super heart warming and wholesome!" Nah, the lead character's actions are just really bad.

I thought the play was extremely realistic. A grieving family is desperately trying to find a reason why their son killed themselves. They search for a formal letter Evan wrote himself was all they found. As a man woth severe anxiety and depression, I thought it was a realistic response to avoid causing that family more pain and suffering. Hell, I would probably do the same if in that situation. Edit: I also think because it was so realistic that it's hard for us to connect to it. We feel betrayed as we can see ourselves fall victim to it.

Precisely. They should have cast one of the younger show Evans, namely Andrew Barth Feldman, in the movie. While Ben was wonderful in the role on stage, the make up and hair choices make him look more 37 than 27!

@@trinaq After I saw the trailer I continuously thought "oh god, I really hope they do a better job de-aging him in the final movie", knowing that THAT was their attempt... that's almost as bad as the initial Sonic design from the Sonic the Hedgehog movie that came out last year. What a big Yikes. To ALSO hear they cut out incredibly pivotal songs just makes me sad.

I totally agree they made him look older if anything. For me that is the main reason I never wanted to see this. The singing in the trailer made me cry though very beautiful

Also they change around lyrics , especially in Sincerely Me "the only man that I love is my dad"

i'm gonna be honest i think they tried to show evan in a more positive light because they didn't realize how insane he was in the original musical and instead of steering into having a villain protagonist they went "shit let's backpeddle a little on this guy" which obviously does not work because there's no rewriting of his character, just extra shit

Like, I feel you can defend it only so hard until you remember that his dad is literally the president of production for Universal. So maybe he could've curbed some of that defensiveness, lol

@@TheNumnutRandomness Nepotism kids are always the most defensive with the most inflated sense of their contributions.

@@squidthing “my father will hear about this!”

@@thethrowawaythatstayed7055 mans harnessed his inner Draco

@@andreascott8150 Please list the reasons you disagree aside from liking Ben Platt.

Huge mood

Exactly, you can get away with casting older actors on stage, but in film, with close ups, and the make up and hair choices, this makes Evan look older than he really is.

This! Plus, you throw in a Zoe who looks like she could actually be a teenager and you have an adult man taking advantage of a family's grief to get with their teenage daughter.

dude he looks wayyyy older than 30 in the movie...

@@AthynVixen true, i was actually suprised to find out he was 27, not like 35+

Precisely, the storyline always unsettled me somewhat. Evan lies to and exploits a grieving family for his own personal gain, and doesn't confess until they start getting heckled online. And even afterwards, he doesn't really suffer any lasting consequences, bar not getting Zoe, or into college.

I think he starts out sympathetic because you can understand how someone would believe that continuing this lie could make the parents of a dead child happy and the charity work it leads too. It isn't until the second act of the musical that the alarm bells went for me- taking Conner's college money as if you deserve an award and trying to be romantically involved with a girl based on lies?? Eww. Also "For Forever" is a great song but in hindsight it comes off gross when you realise that this is when the seed is plated in Evan's mind that he could do this to make himself feel better, not making the family's well-being a priority (which is likely the intention of the song but I don't think they realise the true extent of how villainous it comes off as upon rewatch). I agree with Amanda that the original ending is way worse because it doesn't feel like Evan had to face his actions or work to fix them as much.

Agreed.

I mean you can see him as sympathetic and in the wrong I don't know why he has to be either or Relating to people doing bad things scares people too much

It is a cautionary tale, and Evan is someone I can sympathize with while at the same time understanding that what he did was wrong. He didn't do anything out of malice, but even so his actions caused a lot of hurt to those around him, and even to his own mental health. Ultimately, the character is a teenager and what we want is for teens to learn from their mistakes rather than villinize them forever. It is implied he faced the consequences of his actions "off-screen" in the musical, and I think it's because the aim of the creators of the show was one of compassion and understanding.

I said this to a friend who LOVES this musical and she said “anyone who cares about it wouldn’t want anyone else” 🥴 I obviously disagree

i didn't even want a movie to start with, i wanted a pro-shot, life would be better if they released more pro-shots

I would have LOVED to see Jordan Fisher (i really don't know other actor of Evan Hansen so sorry ahhsha I'm not that big of a fan)

@@juanitaparpandacute3511 tbh Jordan Fischer would also be too old for the role. Andrew Barth Feldman would have been perfect because he’s still an actual teen

YES!! his response was so out of touch and entitled. it was so dismissive of every other actor who played evan (his own boyfriend included), and the rest of the OBC

I mean i also have rly bad social anxiety and sometimes i manage to do stuff like that too

To be honest, it isn't that unbelievable. He doesn't want to disappoint them. People with social anxiety will go to insane lengths just to avoid the source of their anxiety; I should know, I have it.

@@Tay-ge2gf I've struggled with social anxiety in the past, but what I mean to highlight here is the bad writing. I haven't seen the movie, but what stuck out to me in the stage show was that Evan was comedically incompetent -- he felt more like a caricature than someone we could sympathize with, let alone relate to. He can't hold a conversation with Zoe to save his life ("no way....... José" being played for laughs), and his first encounter with the Murphys -- when he's first asked to talk about his "relationship" with Connor -- starts off with him saying, "We met at the.... /spies bowl of apples on the table/ apples....... place." And of course Cynthia knows what he means right away because the plot called for it. It's just a tad clunky that, a minute later, he's speaking (singing) with perfect clarity and articulation -- not to mention detail -- about something that never actually happened. The audience is meant to laugh AT Evan instead of with him, except for when we're expected to sympathize with him. But the writers can't have their cake and eat it too, and as such, we're rewarded with a show that's so tone-deaf and horribly written that I'm surprised more audience members didn't get whiplash trying to follow along.

@@TumbleFourYa I understand where you are coming from, I definitely think that DEH is problematic and fails in multiple aspects (like the majority of media that tries to depict mental illness) and his social anxiety being played for laughs does make me uncomfortable. But I think that it would be unfair to the stage play to not take the constraints of the medium in mind, most characters from musicals feel like caricatures bcs of multiple factors, like the fact that they do break into song, something that most people do not tend to do. I wanted to make it clear that Evan still sucks for making the emails up tho, for example! What I meant in my original comment is that social anxiety does not necessarily make you unable to lie, at one point mine was so bad that i couldn't hold a conversation with a stranger, and going along with a lie even if coming clean would benefit me much more in the long run was something I did (definitely not to the scale of what Evan did tho). That's not to say that everybody who experiences social anxiety feels the same way as I tho! And Connor's mom believing him could be seen as a grieving mother desperate to hold on to any part of her son whom she felt that she wronged (which is a big theme in the musical lol). In the end i think that so many folks enjoy the show bcs it *does* depict anxiety and depression, even if not perfectly ( actually far from perfectly ). Sorry if my English is a bit messy rn, I have a headache >.>

@@Tay-ge2gf Your English is fine! :) I get what you're saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the tone of the show is glaringly inconsistent. There are better ways it could've been tackled. Take Be More Chill, for example. It also deals with depression and anxiety -- though not explicitly stated -- and feels grounded and real although it's a largely sci-fi plot. The characters are believable and well-rounded. Hell, Michael only really gets one moment to shine, and the majority of the fandom sympathizes with him more than Jeremy! Even something like Phantom is better handled than DEH. It's obviously a very different plot, but it's super telling that the majority of the audience sympathizes with Erik, despite the fact that he's a psychopath and murderer. A huge chunk of Phantom fans actually want him to end up with Christine! In a show that uses angels as a plot device and has a character who's a master magician and ventriloquist -- who occasionally can throw balls of fire -- the antagonist still feels real and human despite the high melodrama of it all. To a point, we can understand his motives and even pity him. That's something I never got with Evan. I cried during Words Fail, but it was because of the Murphys and their heartbreak; I never once felt bad for Evan and actually wished he'd gotten more of what was coming to him. DEH has potential, and maybe if I were the intended age demographic instead of someone who's super removed from high school, I would've "gotten it." But as it stands, it's never read to me as anything more than an incompetent first draft.

All of the songs they cut legitimately harmed the story in so many ways

Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box] Like how can they spin it to try force him be someone we all resonate with. Feel they tried make him more the "poor shy guy" who got bullied only to finally be seem after his bully commits suicide. An all that followed wasn't him being a bad guy just a teenager desperate for attention an be seen. Desperate get the girl he likes to notice an like him a. That just happens be lil sister of his bully...... Nvm how he treated his mother Nvm guy may have bullied him for creeping on his LITTLE sister. Nvm him legit trying replace his dead bully to get family he wants an date the sister Like just ewe NO He should at LEAST be suspended for using a suicide to manipulate the masses all so he can get the attention and [just maybe] the girl cause if she all sad about her dead brother Conner then easy him slide in and step up an get a kiss like uggggghhhhhhhhh They really taking this sympathetic villain thing too far the more an more they do it.

@@sleeplessknight2260 Agreed, I just thought Good For You was the most obvious I suppose. When I heard they cut it, I was like, the basically consequences/others at least admonishing him song?! I could even get past the lead looking 40, heck they did it in Rent as well, but it just...made an already iffy story into straight sociopathy (or whatever the true term is). Though I don't like the story of Evan Hansen, love the music, but I'll stick with the soundtrack...

One HUGE reason why they didn't give Evan more consequences is because the reasonable result of which would have been his own suicide.

Awww my favorite song :(

I have pretty bad social anxiety, but I couldn’t comprehend doing something like this. That’s Evan’s own thing 🥴

Fucking THANK YOU

@@raindropsonroses3919 I'm pretty sure nobody with social anxiety would "whoops I'm an internet star"

@@raindropsonroses3919 I have social anxiety as well and I just hate how it is portrayed in this musical. The only thing I related to was Waving Through a Window. But it seems like they missed the mark on a lot of other stuff.

Evan is a villain in the story. Good for you laid that out very clearly

Connors actor is 27, so I'm not sure why so many people complained about just Ben, and I think it was semi-believable that it was close to being a high schooler. It didn't bug me much during the movie

@@smoothcolors9257 im also NOT buying that Connor either btw👀☠️🔔🥪

i don’t think anybody in these comments have ever seen a forty year old man before if you think that ben platt looks forty years old 😳

@@smoothcolors9257 I think people just didn't complain as much about Connor because he's not in a huge portion of the movie, while Evan looking like he's 30 affects how the audience will perceive what is supposed to be the actions of a scared and confused teenage boy.

All I can think of is that scene in that one thing where Steve Buscemi is dressed up as a teen from the 00s being like "HELLO FELLOW TEENAGERS!"

I get these Vibes as well but I have no idea Who his Dad is...

@@sweetlilnymphii7267 the producer of botht the show and movie 👀

He was fun in Pitch Perfect and didn’t seem to take himself too seriously back then. Perhaps his recent successes have affected him negatively.

To be fair, that's because you're *supposed* to be "exaggerated" in stage. So they're playing stage, but on film

its gross

I don’t know why recording and releasing pro-shots of Broadway shows isn’t more common. It mostly retains the magic and intimacy of the stage performance, it allows fans without the budget for or proximity to Broadway to truly experience the show, and it cuts down on illegal filming and bootlegs.

Honestly there are some Broadway musicals that worked as a film, the thing is not every Broadway musicals is a good idea to adapt it into a film

@@Bjork4s Hairspray is a good example. They adapted it into a movie very well. I can’t think of many others

@@KingOfGaymes In The Heights, Mamma Mia, Chicago, West Side Story (both the 1961 and the recent 2021), Les Miserables, Annie, My Fair Lady, Sound of Music, The Prom, Grease, these are all great, decent and entertaining Broadway adaptations

@@KingOfGaymes The musical was based off of a John Waters comedy which came out in 1988. This probably made it easier to adapt the musical into a film later on.

I think Jordan fisher was doing the role around the time pandemic hit and he’s been realistically playing a teen in all the “to all the boys” movies even though he’s only a year younger- I feel like he might have been a better choice but I guess if they botched the screenplay adaptation maybe it was just doomed to fail

He could've played a teacher as a nice little nod to fans

There were also Andrew Barth Feldman or Roman Banks who are both still very young and played Evan on Broadway. I mean Andrew was 16 when he first started his run. That would’ve been perfect.

could have been a remake... "Never Ben Kissed".

They literally could've just gotten Jordan Fisher who was supposed to be the the new Evan Hansen in the revival that never got to happen because of COVID. (I share a last name with Jordan Fisher, but I promise there is no relation. Just making the point here where's it's relevant)

This is so true... I wanted a fresh cast and was seriously disappointed that Ben Platt was the one playing it on screen. I get it that he's like a titular evan hansen, but even theater cast changes.

Nepotism looks like it is still alive and well… Pride does come before the fall, and it did feel like Ben was mutton dressed as lamb. I get that people want to hold onto their glory days, but at what cost…

yeah or they could've even gotten Jordan Fisher if they wanted an actor with more experience

Andrew Barth Feldman was 16 when he was cast as Evan Hansen and was the youngest leading "man" ever on Broadway. He played the role for a year, from January 2019 to January 2020. The movie of *Dear Evan Hansen* began shooting in August, 2020, when Andrew was 18. Today (May 7, 2022) happens to be Andrew's 20th birthday.

@@justalula7151 Ironically, Jordan Fisher is exactly the same age as Ben Platt.

Fully agree

So many people miss the point of media because they are only seeing things at the surface level. Lolita is go show how monsters will justify their actions.

@@ayajade6683 even the narrator’s tragic back story was taken from Edgar Allen Poe’s Annabel Lee, so we know this guy is an unreliable narrator.

This show is not comparable to Lolita. DEH is manipulative trash whose success was predicated on the fact that it expected people to sympathize with Evan’s supposed social anxiety. A story with an unreliable narrator wouldn’t have the half-hearted attempts at calling out the main character that DEH has. It’s poorly written trash. Any attempts to claim an unreliable narrator are just desperate attempts at justification by fans.

@@dumbumbumbum8649 yikes. Can you get anymore salty? Either way, I respectfully disagree.

IT’S A FEEL GOOD MOVIE THAT’LL WIN ALL THE OSCARS!!!!

@Branden Mclendon this is sarcasm, right...

@@hicsuntdracones9065 Yeah, it is.

@@brandonmclendon5368 good good i just wanted make sure so I knew all hope wasn't lost in humanity

epicdragon girl 😂

I’ve never heard that interpretation before, but yes!! Connor could have really identified with Evan’s letter and killed himself right after. Strange that it’s never explored.

Making it a friendship rather than a romance with the sister he's had a crush on forever would have helped big time to with the selfishness department too

​@@khaxjc1 To be fair, a crush you have on someone doesn't just evaporate simply because they lost a family member.

@@cthulhutheendless1587 i interpreted OPs idea more as Evan thinking that Connor assuming the letter was another mean prank was the straw that broke the camel's back and he was afraid of them blaming him

I'd like to tweak that to "can we stop making Live Action film adaptations of musicals?" Animation can actually properly carry over the more impressionist elements of musicals, and then some! :D with adult animation slowly rising in sophistication and quality, I hope we someday get a great animated musical for an older audience.

@TindraSan How about handdrawn only? CGI just can't do what handdrawn 2D animation can.

@@TindraSan absolutely! they both require suspension of disbelief and maybe that way people wont feel uncomfortable with the idea of people singing and dancing instead of talking. Sadly I think director are producers are obsessed with a 'naturalistic' look of movie musicals that is overly serious and kind of apologetic for being a musical.

@@Keznen Nah, CGI can do certain stylistic things too, it's just that not a lot of studios do enough. Sony Animation is the main ones who do very good stylistic animation comparable to 2D. I think the "ideal" style for people who say these kinds of things would be something like Disney's Paperman, where it's 3D animation stylized to look 2D

Ben Platt is actually 27. But yeah I'm 39 and he looks older than me

That's definitely the main problem with the movie, the musical doesn't let you forget that Evan while not a bad person, is definitely the bad guy in this situation. The movie tries to soften it so he doesn't look that bad by making sure we don't really see what everyone else is thinks about the situation.

The book actually goes a bit deeper into Connor himself!

youre describing 13 reasons why

@@ghostmemeboi It's a similar concept, but I don't think Connor would have left any explanation behind, nor would he show up again in scenes where he isn't alive in what I imagined. But I haven't really watched 13 Reasons Why because I've heard less then stellar things, so idk

I know this is really not the point, but I love your Anna von Kleve profile photo.

@Bardenbella120 would you mind expanding on this a little more? Like, why Evan?

I didn’t think about like that but it makes soooooo much sense

@@WaitinInAmber he didn't go to Evan to help. He lashed out in the hope that someone would stop him or do something, he then bought drugs and overdosed. But before this, he texted his best friend/boyfriend (they had a complicated relationship) Miguel who he hadn't contacted in a few months due to an argument Connor had with Miguel. He wrote "I miss you" and Miguel didn't respond as he was at work. When he got back from work, he tried to call but Connor had already passed and he only found out that he passed via facebook and the Connor project. Miguel caught onto what Evan was doing, lying, but didn't say anything as he was glad that Connor was getting the recognition he deserved. "Connor, he just... I've never met someone like that. That innocent. That pure. Sometimes I think maybe he was too pure... for all this."

@@greysonholtz oh wow that is heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing!!!

Oh absolutely!! I really like this take, makes more sense!!

Same

I love the book way more than the musical and movie. Honestly after the book it makes the musical look kinda bad.... at least in my opinion. Like getting Connor's perspective as well made me love the book so much more. I wish they kept more things in the musical then they took even more out of the movie. It fucking sucks honestly....

It's because the order was Musical -> Book -> Movie, the book is based on the musical, not the other way around. The people involved in the movie also were different to the ones writing the book, so it makes sense they didn't include Miguel (the boyfriend op mentioned). I'd also argue that having a secret person that has known Connor kind of defeats the point. No one knew Connor and no one will get to know him because he died and it's supposed to be sad, it's supposed to be a tragedy that he died so young

I'm gonna cry over this oh my god whyy😭

I'm guessing bad close-up shots, a wig, and lots of film makeup, none of which were really necessary to make him look "younger".

Except that he never actually assaulted anyone. And except for the fact that he doesn't get what he wanted in the end. And except for the fact that he admitted the truth in order to save this family's reputation, not because he was caught, and had no other way out. But other than that, I can see the comparison, as both protagonists lie a lot in order to be closer to their love interests, and feel invisible otherwise.

Haven’t seen the movie yet but WHAT!?

I watched the broadway show after seeing the movie and I understand why they switched up the songs for the progression the movie takes with the story

@@AmandaTheJedi But was it a good choice to take the movie in another direction? To me, the musical always made clear that Evan isnt a good guy, and acted out of his own suffering and resulting dellusion. Basicly all critics i heard until now make him out t be a creepy guy who manipulates a families grief to f*** their daughter.

I love Good For You 😭 its so gorgeous and powerful!!

Haven't seen the movie yet but I was lucky enough to see the musical live right before Covid hit and to hear that any of the songs were cut makes me question if this is worth the price of admission. What songs got cut if you don't mind me asking because you're right, Evan is NOT supposed to be a praiseworthy character. Pitiable at best, maybe sympathetic, but definitely not praiseworthy.

@@jeremygilbert7989 Good For You, Does Anybody Have A Map, To Break In A Glove

@@DoveCalderwood they took out Good For You!? That is arguably the best song on the soundtrack and shows how his lies have started affecting everyone else and how he's struggling with how far it's gone, what dimwit took that out

@@jennalove and it also really showed how even though he was "putting himself before others" he didn't care how it hurt or effected the others in that situation, especially his mom. then he just expects forgiveness form her.

@@DoveCalderwood Jesus. All important songs, especially Good For You. Of all songs to cut that one especially should never have been an option.

I just wish it wasn't playing off of the same content other channels do as there's already multiple channels that switch trailer genres like this. If Amanda is going to be playing around with new ideas like this I'd love to see her do something more original!

Yes pleeease

Dear Evan Hansen: The Jedicut

​@nicanonymous9023 which RU-vidrs change movie trailers to different genres?

YES YES it’s like he’s wearing prosthetics 😂😂😂 Right?

@@passiveagressive4983 it’s like they added baby fat to his face or something. The scene at the end where he’s crying and about to climb the tree…I’m like “omg why is his head sooo big and his body is so small”

@@xotennisxgirlox 👍🏾

he looks like dennis reynolds 💀

That would be such a cool story........your mind.......

When I first saw songs from it, i also assumed Evan was a medium talking to Connor's ghost. The actual story took me by surprise

Yup, I saw a fan animation of the song and thought that too!

i find this hilarious as i was thinking just recently how Sincerely Me could work for a character who's a medium also i just love this interpretation of the plot. like can someone make this a real thing 👀 (along w the horror idea, that's great too)

Same 😭

I’m so happy someone else pointed this out, I felt like I was going slightly crazy. I really wished that Conner was addressed more because I feel like he’s the type of person that people don’t paint as a victim of s*. Conner doesn’t fit the normal profile and as such his death seems less tragic for those around him. It hurts my heart to think about.

I don’t think so. I thought that it was pretty clear that the musical showed us how he used other people for his own gain, was in the wrong and hurt them. I think ‘Good For You’ captured that and the scenes, where he treats his Mom, Alana and his friend badly, also the one were he understood that he is wrong (his last talk with “Connor” I think ). Even though, when he realised, he thought everyone would understand and forgive him, because he wasn’t able to take the truth. I thought that the musical wanted to show us his deep rooted pain and struggles, in order for us to be able to sympathise with him, but additionally it’s still showing us, how wrong he was. I also don’t think that it was the goal to deem him as just a bad person, since he is a teenager he has still room to grow and better himself. In my opinion, it was about his growth and how he learned his lesson from the start, not Connors family. Nevertheless, I do think that more emphasis on Connor as a character could have been interesting.

I agree with everything but the Conner point. The thing with Conner is, is that we're not supposed to know him. It's essentially put us in the real world situation of "This kid seems interesting and fun, doesn't he? Well too bad you'll never get to know him now, he's gone" it kinda adds more tragedy imo.

As a response to evan saying he did the worst thing anyone could, yes, however, let's not forget in the musical jared made merch with conors face on it and made a profit from his suicide.

I haven’t seen the movie too, just the stage version, but actually liked that almost all the characters are flawed. They are scared, hurt, scarred and try to seek and ease the pain they are feeling, but in unhealthy ways, just like people in the real world sometimes do when they are desperate. Sometimes they take drastic measures, without thinking about everyone else and only their gain. It’s scary, uncomfortable, but in my opinion realistic. I liked that they also all do have qualities that can make them good or sympathetic, contrasting their inexcusable actions and flaws.

Thank you so much for talking about Alana I feel like no one ever talks about how shitty and selfish she is

@@DasTretminchen Completely agree!

that’s why i love the musical so much. every character is fucked up in their own way. not every piece of media has to be a morality piece. it’s not about who’s doing the ‘right’ thing. they’re just all amoral little shits trying to claw their way through this shitty situation. and like what’s more human than that?

@@DasTretminchen see this part i loved about the musical and i wish the focus it got from fans was this and not the whole thing about it being this super uplifting take on mental health or whatever (not to shit on anyone the musical did help, i just feel like it Should Not be getting praise for how it treated mental illness)

Can I ask why you didn't just write; "theater kid"? Seems like it would be less writing, no?

@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 got diagnosed theater kid, doesnt mean i claim it yet :(

Fun Home and Natasha, Pierre and The Great Comet of 1812 were ROBBED

@@robotsocks-504 you don't have to & that's all fine but, when writing, probably just use the actual quotation marks ("quotes") to say what you did. It's just easier & more universally understood for people who aren't reading comments with English being their first/only language.

@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 ah sorry I thought u was just being a pedant lol. I mostly did it because, imo, reading "quote, unquote" is funnier than just straight up quotation marks?? I'll keep it in mind tho ^^

My sisters hot What the hell

Did you post this before? Istg I've seen this vid before

Likewise, Sincerely Me is the best song in the musical, and they did it justice here!

Re! In! Vent! Ion!

that fake trailer gave me the chills ☠️

Huge same. My sister brought the idea up to me after she watched the show for the first time and I was like..hold up...brb crying all over again....

RIGHT

Who’s the author of the book? I’m thinking of buying it

@@phoenixreaper2283 Benj Pasek, Val Emmich, and Steven Levenson!

@@hydnumm9219 ty

i have only read the book and i really enjoyed it

My god, I was hoping for someone to comment that. I liked the book much much more than the musical (even though I'm a total fan of the songs). The feeling of Evan being completely wrong accompanies us throughout the whole story. And Connor's pov finally makes the narrative itself just... more fair? It always bugged me that in the musical we never even knew the real Connor.

Yeah, I was a casual listener of the songs of the musical for a while and totally didn't get that the situation was so messed up. Only after some time that I was like: ok, but what Evan ir actually really bad and cannot be justified or waved away,, right? The little that I witnessed regarding fan discourse showed me that, though some view Evan as a sympathetic villain, there are still people who think that what he did was reasonable. (I also see some parallels between Evan messing up and the classic moment in teenage movies where the protagonist messes up somehow but makes up for it apologizing or something in the end. We are so used to this story format that maybe we assume that's what happens on the musical too)

@@srtatropicalia yeah, that's so fair- and after finishing the video, I do agree with Amanda that they wrote Zoe in the musical to be a little too forgiving at the end, I can understand how that could totally give the feeling like we're supposed to forgive Evan at the end. I think they could have handled some things better to make it clearer that Evan's actions are really reprehensible while still humanizing him, since it didn't come across to everyone very well

I wouldn't be too sure anyone actually *did* see him as in the right. This backlash seems like people who'd never heard of the show read the synopsis and flipped out under the *assumption* that everyone who was a fan took it at face value. Maybe because they assume all musicals are 1 dimensional. Or maybe because you're obviously going to have a different and much more reactionary response to reading a synopsis than to actually consuming a story the way you're *supposed* to. Either way, if I were you I would trust your experience in the fandom over someone who saw a picture of Old Platt and wanted to get in on the Hot Take Train. It's just like when everyone decided Hamilton was problematic because "obviously" the show wanted you to think slaveowners were heroic pinnacles of enlightenment 🙄

@@pseudonymous9153 the thing is, there's a lot of value to criticizing media we like. I love Hamilton, I genuinely still know every word of it, but I think it's extremely ironic in ways that are not often good or intentional. (I think Hamilton's issues are more about a not-so-great concept which was executed so well that we almost didn't realize it was about rapping slave owners, and DEH's problem is more like having a great, messed up concept that just could have been more fleshed out and thoughtful in some aspects.) They're both really enjoyable media that's still flawed in some ways, and reasoned criticism of them is totally valid. I'll be honest, it would be really silly of me to just trust my 15 year old self's opinion and experience with it, especially since I projected so hard onto it and probably had rose-colored glasses in a way. My takeaway from watching the video and the other reply here, was that it was probably easy for me and my circle of theater kids to see Evan as being in the wrong precisely because we sympathized with him, but were familiar enough with how toxic those behaviors were to know without the show having to tell us. But for other people just taking the show at face value, especially younger teens, I can see how certain aspects came across as condoning or justifying Evan's actions. Again, still love the show! But it's healthy to be able to realize, like, this media meant a lot to me, but it didn't work for everyone and that doesn't mean that the other people are wrong, just that it maybe didn't do the best job at coming across the right way. Hope that makes sense!

Jared and Alana are both awful friends for obvious reasons. Evan never wanted to lie to the Murphys - Jared convinced him to. Evan only really digs into the lie about Connor after the Murphys start fighting. Evan comes from a broken home. He knows the signs of a family falling apart, and he doesn't want that to happen to the Murphys. Do you know when Evan comes clean about the whole thing? When the Murphys start fighting again. Evan willingly throws himself under the bus to keep the family from falling apart again. Do you know why the Murphys were fighting? Because despite *begging her for the Murphy's sake* not to, Alana decides to share the suicide note with absolutely no regard for anything else but her precious "engagement". She is literally the reason everything falls apart. How are she and Jared not the antagonists of the story? After Evan lies about Connor and the orchard, Zoe is so angry about it that she launches into Requiem. In the middle of "If I Could Tell Her", she asks if there was anything else Connor said about her, but is then incredibly bashful about asking. That didn't feel like an, "I don't want you to know that I secretly wanted praise from my brother," kind of embarrassment to me. That sounded like an, "I don't want you to know that I want /you/ to keep saying nice things about me", kind of embarrassment to me. She doesn't believe Connor said anything about her being awesome at the start of the song, why would she start believing him halfway through? They had good chemistry before Connor even took his own life. When she apologizes to Evan about Connor's behavior, she's genuinely endeared with him already. She knew Evan was full of shit and telling her what he felt in his own way. Weird? Definitely. But look at their first conversation and tell me she would think that's out of character for him. At the end of the second half, Zoe says, "You gave me my brother back." This does not mean that she suddenly believes he's a saint. But seeing the good that Connor's memory is doing for other people, along with Evan's insistence that there was good in him, helps her confront her own grief over his death. He may have been abusive, but he was still her brother, and a part of her still loved him. Evan helped her realize that she didn't have to totally accept or reject him. She could remember the good things about him without forgiving him for the bad. She could grieve for her brother without accepting the monster that he was. It's notable that after this, they sing "Only Us". She's processed her feelings for Connor, and is ready to move on. Her relationship with Evan had very little to do with Connor's memory. Evan's mother is incredibly toxic. When she discovers he's been hiding things like the Connor project from her, she immediately starts guilt tripping him over not telling her, despite the fact that what he was hiding were all signs of him becoming a more successful, confident person. He's the co-founder of a charity foundation, and she's so concerned with him hiding it from her, she forgets to... you know, be happy that he's being more outgoing? This is a pattern with her. When she's hurt, she doesn't care enough to have a conversation about it, she just immediately starts lashing out, and then she wonders why Evan won't tell her anything. And the worst example of this is the conversation just before Good For You. She starts out alright, talking about how mortifying it is to find out about his relationship with the Murphys in the way that she did, but then she starts insulting the Murphys, who are perfectly well-meaning. "These... these these these PEOPLE!". And when Evan tries to defend them, she then doubles down, and starts mocking them and going back to guilt tripping him, and that's when Evan really start pushing back. I get being upset, but the way she talks to Evan is incredibly immature at best and antagonistic at worst. And turning down the college money is her ego at its finest. She's perfectly willing to sacrifice Evan's emotional needs so that they can get by, but when she has to swallow her pride and accept help from people who ADORE her son - "It would be such a gift for us to do this for Evan..." - she practically implodes from the sheer indignity of it all. She then goes on to mock the people who have been giving her son the emotional support he needed because she feels insignificant and is scared of Evan leaving her the way his dad did, not realizing that lashing out in the way she does is literally what is pushing him away. Lastly, I think people undervalue what exactly it was that Evan did for the Murphys. The question that keeps coming up is "Why did Connor kill himself?" That's literally what the Murphys are always fighting about. What Evan's lie did, even if it was a lie, was show the Murphys that they didn't need to search for a reason. It was enough to remember him and be at peace with his memory. For depression and suicide, that is an INCREDIBLY important lesson for grieving families because sometimes there isn't a good reason, and you can hurt yourself more in the search for answers. Plenty of parents blame themselves, and that's exactly what we see Mrs. Murphy doing when everything blows up. She starts asking if it was their fault, if they're bad parents, because that's what the internet is telling them. All of Evan's efforts to keep them from searching for that answer were falling apart, and he knew that the only way to keep them from imploding again was to come clean. Evan himself admits in Words Fail that what he did was partially selfish. But he also says this: This was just a sad invention It wasn't real, I know But we were happy I guess I couldn't let that go I guess I couldn't give that up Not I was happy. /We/ were happy. I don't see evan as a sympathetic villain. I see him as a tragic hero. He was trying to make the best of a really bad situation. Do you tell the family the truth and watch them fall apart before your eyes? Or do you lie to keep them together and maybe make them, and maybe even yourself, feel better in the process? It's a no-win situation, really. And the reason they couldn't be happy in the end wasn't because of Evan's lie. It was because Alana told too much of the truth. It was because Jared wanted to use Evan. It was because Evan's mom couldn't let go of her own pride and her own pain and just be happy for what Evan had. She tells him they aren't your family, but family isn't always the people related to us by blood. They're the people who nurture us and are there for us when we need them. The Murphys were that for Evan in a way that his mother couldn't be, even if she was trying. But rather than being happy that he was getting the love and attention he needed, she chose to be bitter and self-righteous, and there's really no excuse for that. Trying or not, that's really shitty behavior from a parent. Also, Evan was officially dating Zoe at the time, so they very likely would have become his in-laws.

I agree, Chloe. I think that the massive backlash DEH film received is a sign of a bigger picture - Today's audiences running away from anything remotely ''problematic'', unless it's about ''killing bad guys'', or something so far removed from reality that it becomes escapism. Basically every film recently released featuring characters verbally fighting, manipulating, lying or being aggressive in any form has been panned by many. Of course, the way it handles those things is crucial, but even in cases like DEH, where the protagonist learns from his mistakes, and doesn't end-up with his love interest, the criticism is the same. It's like modern audiences cannot grasp any shade of grey between being infallable and being irredeemable. Frankly, life doesn't work that way, and being on a high horse isn't exactly a good personality trait either. Sure, we all criticize Evan's behavior, as we are supposed to. That shouldn't take way from the fact that he has good traits as well, nor that he by his own volition, admitted to the lies, and tried to do better. I am a bit disappointed how black and white things have to be presented in order for people to sympathize with the characters.

Read Umineko

@@wrigglenight93 The visual novel? I looked it up. Seems intriguing, maybe I will...

@@chloe._. It takes a very different, altogether stranger path. But if you want that sort of message done not just well, but pretty much fucking perfectly, I can't recommend it enough.

@@wrigglenight93 Strange is good

Word

Realistic outcome: Said person never gets with high school crush in the end, instead moves on to find someone else. Just a suggestion.

The original show had a song called "Obvious" that was cut in favor of "If I could Tell Her". I can't find a reason why, but the lyrics for Obvious just describe Evan's attraction as that vague infatuation most YA and Romances push as "love". If I Could Tell Her on the other hand's lyrics are all about Evan specifically listing various actual things about Zoe that Evan likes, showing that he's actually gotten to know her already if only to a degree. (Though yes, Evan is lying that these were what Connor liked about Zoe in a dual effort to hide his true feelings out of fear of rejection, and to try and comfort Zoe's mixed feelings about Connor...with disastrous results.) Plus they did briefly talk right before Waving Through a Window, though again, Evan withheld his true feelings for Zoe. Also I just wanna say I love how they just had them get together mid-way rather then resort to that "Will They Won't They" bullshit. Also the whole scene with "Only Us" in the stage show is a win.

I hate this argument. There’s more than one type of love. Obviously conflating your first high school love with the love of, say, a long term partner is disingenuous, but saying something is or isn’t love because it doesn’t meet a set of arbitrary requirements is ludicrous.

@@sydneydunaway5618 I don't think my standards of actually knowing a person and talking to them once is arbitrary when it comes to romantic love. Sure a universal "I love all mankind" doesn't require actual contact but that's not usually the type of love explored in high school romance movies. But you might think differently and that's alright by me.

He doesn't look like a high school student AT ALL, but to be fair, neither do other people in this film, or 90% of other films. Not only that Hollywood doesn't really cast minors (which I get, because of the labor laws), but it also refuses to cast people who are 18-21, and look visibly younger than their actual age. Most of these ''high schoolers'' look exactly their actual age rather than even attempting looking younger. So, while I get the criticism towards Ben Platt playing 17, I don't know why so many people are outraged in way like it's the first time that happened.

@@AlirioAguero2 It's because he LOOKS so jarringly old compared to the other actors around him. Jared and Zoe and Alana's actors are all about the same age as Ben Platt, yet they look like the type of high schoolers you normally see in movies, whereas Ben looks _just_ too-old enough for it to be a little uncanny valley.

I really think they did it so they could have a character make all the gay jokes without getting shit on

@@AmandaTheJedi i could only manage to watch about 40-50 minutes of the movie and yeh... Yeh i got that vibe as well

@@AmandaTheJedi probably and it pisses me off even more :C They did my boy dirty

wait, they turned a straight character gay, but removed the actual, real mlm characters/moments (connor and miguel) because??

@@joseanurkkalainen2832 this was only touched on in the book. i don't think Miguel was mentioned at all in the musical?

Omg, I didn’t realize that was the same year. Great Comet deserved it 1000% more than this fake mental illness rep bullshit 😒

Great Comet was incredible and I'm still mad it lost out and also closed in that awful way. I think Ben deserved the Tony but the show as a whole? Naaah. I still don't know what I'm supposed to take away from Dear Evan Hansen.

That year tonys were a mess there are falsettos fans still bitter about them

@@shortinsomniac76 yes lmao, me!!!

"comedy"

You know what was a great musical movie this year that involved the original cast in a lot of the decisions, stayed true to it's origins, and DIDN'T cast the original actor in the lead role? In The Heights. You know what this movie is? Not In The Heights.

Tell daddy Platt he can't buy Benny a tony

Just stop adapting them badly.

I think it's fine to like something and still acknowledge that it has issues! If it helped you as a teen, you don't have to feel bad about that

Likewise, the music was always my favourite part of this musical, but it's not without its flaws, naturally. Evan himself is just out for his own personal gain, and only confesses after the family starts getting heckled online.

@@trinaq But when Evan meets the Murphys you can see how they are pushing him for anything about their son and he’s too afraid to tell them the truth. It’s not the right thing to do but at the beginning at least I think Evan wanted to give them something good about their son after seeing the family fight over Conner.

@@ofthewilderwoods yeah but every other lie would have worked better, just saying Connor was nice at him and thats all

Sadly, yes. It's not the paragon of mental health rep people seem to _think_ it is. Lmao. As someone who's pretty mentally ill, I kinda hate the musical. The songs are fine and catchy and sound great but the plot is disgusting. I hate it.

That's how I felt when I finally watched a bootleg of it. I was honestly so confused, it just didn't fit at all with how people talked about it. All it really did for me was upset me. The music on it's own was definitely more impactful, then come to learn half of it isn't about what it sounds like it's about because it's all based on a lie. Blegh

Lol. I had the same reaction when I finally read the plot after the trailer dropped. Definitely looking at folks differently. Why were yall stanning this play to begin with? The movie is getting the reaction the play should have gotten from the jump. I was disgusted.

@@birdiewolf3497 believe it or not the musical is slightly more tolerable because it doesn't try to pull the bs redemption arc like the movie does.

Literally my reaction right now. I never really dived into the musicals story although I legitimately liked the few songs of the soundtrack I listened to (no particular reason for why I didn't took more interest in it, I just simply didn't look further into it) and based on the way people talk so highly about the musical I always assumed that the story has a MUCH more positive ending for Evan and everyone involved. Sure I knew that the lie he tangled himself up in got out of hand and that a seriously messed up situation was created out of it but I kinda just trusted the story (and the general publics reaction) that things get solved in the end. Today is the first time I hear about Evan ending up basically loosing everything at the end of the show because of his lies, that's *buckle ass wild.* People NEVER talked about how legitimately messed up the actual story is, painting it as one of hope and overcoming the darkest times of your life while facing serious mental health problems and your own mortality. I am... kinda overwhelmed right now ngl. How has DEH become THIS BIG of a hit and THIS talked-about and yet it seems to get pretty misrepresented concerning its actual context? Did the musical actually life THIS MUCH from its percentage of fans who had no way of watching the show themselves and therefore kinda just... didn't know and sheared their wrong assumptions about the shows plot?? I don't know what to do with all of this right now, I honestly didn't expect any of this at all. How THE *FUCK* is this even possible??

That's one, unnuanced oversimplified way to look at it. I imagine your Cinderella review is: "Spineless bimbo has to be rescued by hot rich prince".

@@generalhorse493 Cinderella rescued herself, she snuck out to go to the ball

@@generalhorse493 that's a terrible comparison. Cinderella left to the ball herself because she wanted to. The prince happened to fall in love with her and getting married was a saving point

@@IncorrectHB Phew, for a second I thought The Take were the only ones who recognized that.

@𝘿!𝙘𝙠 Riding ǤƗяℓ Isabella 1. Anxiety does not equal sucking at lying 2. Evan doesn't create an intricate lie, he starts a small lie and then improv builds on it with each prying question, building it bigger and bigger. 3. He uses an element of truth in each part of the lie whether it's using what little he's learned about Connor or directly inserting his own experiences and wants. 4. The Murphys believe it because they wanted to believe it. They were after all the ones who created the lie in the first place and pushed it onto Evan.

yeah but like... he coulda say there weren't emails.. or just.. not make fake ones. There's way too much active over the top fabrication to give him a pass there. Her pushing is where I'd give him a pass at letting them believe the letter was from him and that they had talked a bit and that was it

@@AmandaTheJedi Yeah that’s completely understandable

@@AmandaTheJedi I think that bit was fine... as long as they showed what he was doing was wrong, which the movie seem to ignore

Same, like I listen to and enjoy a few of the songs. But overall, it's a no from me.

Oh I can answer the why! Like you said, he was panicking, but there's also a big part of him that feels bad for Cynthia and wants so desperately for her to be happy. It's also been established that he's a good writer (his mom says that in regards to college scholarships), so he has to be some degree of creative, plus he's basically repurposing his own memories and desires. Hope this helps!

Omg i thought i was the only one who thought they were about to kiss😭

This is why I love the musical. Because it is a classic tragedy.

I think that’s the point. Almost every person in it is not great and makes a lot of really bad choices

I've heard really good things about Great Comet I'll have to check it out!

@@AmandaTheJedi It can be…a lot on the first listen but I really like it!

Next to Normal is also a VERY good musical about mental health. And I think it covers it a lot more carefully. (I would read the plot first because it does cover topics that can be triggering.) I have social anxiety. Waving Through a Window is a song I resonated with.... But as for the plot? I think the writers (for stage and screen) stumbled with the message they were trying to say.

@@nerdoftheatre I’ve been meaning to listen to Next to Normal!

@@evies.1018 I was lucky enough to see the show when my university did a production of it. It's a HEAVY show, but it is written very well. It is absolutely one of my favorite shows.

Don’t blame yourself- I don’t think the show does a great job of framing/showing that what Evan does is wrong. (Part of this has to do with the music too but a lot of people seem to like the music so I won’t go into that)

Thank you!! And I bet you the whole time he was lying it was just killing him inside. I have been in a situation like that before. Not lying about being friends with a dead kid, but I have lied because I was so uncomfortable and it just got worse and worse and it was killing me inside. Evan loses everything! And I hate when people say "he never had any consequences for his actions" well I have done something horrible multiple times and I didn't face "consequences" and it actually was better for me than being punished. I felt the mercy I had been given and it changed me.

Read the book. You learn more about him and his relationships. The audiobook is actually on RU-vid

Andrew Barth Feldman played Evan on Broadway, and he’s only 19. He would have been an excellent choice, as well.

If something brought you peace when you were struggling you absolutely do not have to feel bad about liking it even if you realize it has faults

@@AmandaTheJedi thank you for this

His life wasn't so suite anymore, apparently.

Musicals can be anything :D

@@toxicsugarart2103 yes

I LAUGHED TOO HARD AT THIS

Heathers just Heathers