The Cultish Aspects of Academia. Disturbing Similarities You Can't Ignore! 

Career academic here. They may say that 'if you leave you are a failure', but deep inside most know that they themselves won't survive a month in a corporate job. There's so much moral grandstanding and virtue signalling in this job, it makes me feel nauseated. And the hypocrisy is even worse! They'll keep talking about climate change and emissions and the same people couldn't keep their Butts on the ground, hopping one conference to another.

Another cultish aspect of academia is that leadership or authority creates an "alternate reality" to distance the group from the rest of humanity: we are smarter, we are engaged in a sacred task that is worth sacrificing for, its our team vs. the world, the stakes are high and the opportunity is unique. These are extremes which are intended to continuously return the attention of the group members back to the group.

Andrew, with your beard you are classic prophet, a leader of our cult, we follow you in and out of academia!

The cultish aspect is one of the many reasons I quit my PhD. In addition to being a cult, there also some essays that compare academia to the drug trade. In both there are lots of young, motivated people willing to undergo horrendous working conditions to achieve a dream of future personal success. The exploitation of passion and unrealistic hopes and the oversupply of young people willing to suffer these pains because they are so naive is what keeps these systems working.

So right. I left after 7 years without finishing, and my relationships with a lot of people ended. Life has been very hard since I left but I haven't regretted my escape for one moment.😊

I stopped at a Masters in Cultural Studies and went to library school. One of the advisors on my thesis committee actually started making fun of me for it, but I didn't take it personally. A few years later, that same professor failed to get tenure, went adjunct at a university in another city, then dropped out of academia himself! We're good friends now, and every so often I'll run into him at the grocery store and we'll catch up.

Dr. Andrew, I stumbled over your video, and I can clearly stipulate that your channel has become one of my favorites! Keep up the good work! The sky will never be your limit, but rather a stepping stone to more positively profound heights. Cheers!

The podcast “Sounds Like a Cult” has an episode on academia - lines up quite well with this video (and my experience currently as a PhD student)

This is hilarious and sad at the same time

I think when I first join the academia from industry, the person that I worked with also felt betrayed at some point and discouraged me from joining the academia. So it doesn't matter where you are from, when you switch career, people do perceive that way. Part and parcel of the working life, but life still moves on. I love working in the academia now. ❤

I used to be very open to the accusations of this or that being a cult, but the older I get, the more I see how these "signs of a cult" are often also requirements for any field or community or social movements to succeed. When we see these things, we should then ask ourselves, "to what degree?" or "to what end?" Furthermore, it is wise to acknowledge that when something becomes "cult-like," it's not necessarily the fault of the institution or those in charge of it, but the work of those who join in and start behaving cult-like in spite of objections by those in leadership (seen that happen several times in a few places).

There is a mirroring of this in tech corporate culture. Landmines everywhere. Put in 110%, embrace the sacrifice, don't highlight inefficiency or raise suspicion of unidentified protected members.

Great content as always!!! Keep up the extraordinary work!

Absolutely love Dr Andy. Just recently discovered him and now I am hooked. Entertaining yet very insightful and relevant commentary is the order of the day. As for this video, brilliant!!!

Gonna sound weird but I wish we were encouraged to socialize more as I'm a very antisocial person. I mean like minded people are those you generally feel least awkward socializing with.

Great stuff. I only disagree with the assertion that you should never pay for a PhD. I think it depends on your situation. I was working full time in industry and dropped about $17K on a part-time, online PhD from a private nonprofit American university next to no one has heard about. I was able to write my dissertation in four semesters and keep my day job. Will I ever be able to do research at an R1 university, no. Does my industry have a weird obsession with the "Dr." title and is willing to pay a lot more for someone with the title, yes. A paid-for PhD was an investment that worked out well for me and if I want to I can teach at the community college level or state college level. I'm pretty happy with it all.

Ludwig Boltzmann was not recognized for his statistical mechanics until later on. He put out the ideas before atomic theory was acceptable in science.

Academics tend to be stubborn, angered when their silly reasoning is proven wrong, and sustain worldly dystopia.

One thing I will say about financial side is yes, it is terrible in the states. As for the exception part, if you make it clear you are not willing to play the game, but don't try to burn the bridges, a smart experienced mentor, especially in the life sciences, will respect it. It's because they know having an inside connection to industry, government, or patent law can become invaluable in the future for them. That is not to say my mentor didn't push heavily back against me deciding to not follow a traditional route, but they accepted it. It can be a coin toss though. Some faculty and mentors will get utterly offended at you even toying with the idea of someone not becoming an academic and will do everything in their power to belittle you. I recommend avoiding these mentors honestly.

Wow, all of the aspects were so spot on :D Thank Zeus I'm out of that life sucking sinkhole.

this video is so true, so insightful, and so brave in speaking out the truth about academia! also in a very amusing way. and look at the comments, a lot of people echoed with this video, and they shared lots of very, very interesting comments, which took the discussion to a new level!

I am impressed by your charisma in outlining these points. Wait a second . . .

Thank you very much

truth! keep it up

300% agree with all of the examples. I would not even bother going after more since those are paramount to define a cult.

Hey Andy, off topic but did you hear about the tragic events between a phd student and advisor at UNC? It happened a few days ago at a US campus. Certainly got me thinking about your videos which go into detail about how much strain, pressure, and stress are on the phd candidates and how important the doctoral advisor is.

Although I usually agree with your videos, this is the one that resonates the most with me, since I have reached the same conclusions here in Europe and it fascinates me that such a system can exist and be publicly funded in 2023. You could add that it is a pyramid scheme. I think that you are too naïve thinking that social isolation in academia is something volunteer, but it is comprehensible with the amount of gaslighting, manipulation and psychological nuances. The fact is that academic regulations, norms and nepotism protect the system so much, that if you end up in a toxic environment they will level this against you. To brainwash you , they may try to break your mind telling you everyday that your work is garbage and you are useless, that they can do your work in 2 days, highlighting your errors and denying their own or attributing them to you. In addition, you have to remain silent. You won't be able to reason or argue because they become aggressive. After a couple of years of hearing various people tell you this, even if you used to be a winner and the most confident person in yourself, you will think that you are worthless and dependent on them. Even if you know it's manipulation and you are publishing in the best journals with their signature, you will have so much insecurity that you won't want to leave for another job. Regarding social isolation, I had never done an extra hour of work in my life before entering academia; however, here the threats began: threats of contract termination, of not completing the PhD, of your professional career, and workloads that you couldn't even finish in two workdays, sometimes asking you to do useless tasks. As a result, I have gone without vacations, weekends, or holidays for 4 years. In the end, being separated from your family or friends makes you more vulnerable and more dependent on your supervisor or colleagues. I would also add the situations where they ask you to do something that harms you but benefits them, trying to convince you that it's best for you. For example: "What's best for you is to quit your job and apply for a scholarship, so you can dedicate all your time to research" (but they conveniently forget to mention that you'll receive a fifth of your current salary, you'll be dependent on them for your contract, which they can use to manipulate you, and you'll be writing articles they'll put their names on). Another example: "You've been invited to publish in a Q1 journal, but your work isn't up to par. I'll arrange for you to publish in a Q3 journal instead, and you must accept it. Remember, your contract depends on publishing" (but they conveniently forget to mention that their spouse is the editor of the Q3 journal).

Andy! Get on Scite! We need a video from you on it asap! 😃

Hi Andy, thank you so much for this video. I am right now preparing my self to leave academia for good. I had a terrible PhD and now I wanted to give it another shot as a PostDoc with a new supervisor. But the point you made about new ideas is so difficult to do. I would like to establish a new method with a fairly new instrument in the field of Glycobiology. My Supervisor is not really known in the field for this but I would be down to try, since I really think its something that is really less studied. When I pitched my ideas to him, he was really resistant and also told me that he does not believe in the data existed. So for now I really do not know what to do? Moreover, I am also leaving as you said, that they say you have really great chances to become a professor but thank god I saw the reality. I want to shift my focus more on translational medicine based research but it is incredibly hard. I am also a person who loves to collaborate especially with medical professionals but my current supervisior is not really into it. Do you maybe have an Idea if I should continue my next two years (my contract will then end) or shall I have already now a look for a better job in industry? I would love to hear from you. Thanks for your time and your great videos!

Good info. I would point out that Social Science Ph.D.s often have to pay for their doctorate program as we don't tend to produce money making research or receive grants at the same frequency of the harder sciences.

Some corporations are also cultish.

I only have a master's and it is in the lib arts, but i love your videos and you would be surprised how much overlap there is. My recommendation for surviving school, and research, if you choose to do it. Drop online dating and tinder and just go to student union events, and ask someone out. I met my wife in grad school and i cant tell you how much more balanced my life seemed to be than my peers who did all school all the time. Having a love life gives your life a direction and a purpose outside of what you are doing professionally. Thats my advice. Date the old fashioned way and make it last. Its worth it.

As someone who grew up with religion and is primarily in academia for immigration purposes (rather than passion), the parallels in dogma between religion and academia is uncanny.

Dr. Andrew if I’m offered a Lecturer job in a Russel group of University and a non -Russel one , which one do you think would be better for my career growth. Thank you in advance

real quick, what is your grooming kit? your beard is amazing..

Hello there! In previous videos, you have discussed applying to Ph.D. programs. But could you discuss when a Ph.D. student decides to leave their current program and apply to another? It is the beginning of my 2nd year of my Ph.D. (US based), and I have decided to leave my current program. So, I am currently looking for other programs (STEM) and will apply to them this fall. My current advisor is not providing a letter of rec, and I am worried that the programs I apply to will take my application as a red flag. But I feel like professors should understand that things happen and might understand that Ph.D. students do transfer.

Isn't it true for any "serious" association of people (by "serious" I mean: not unpaid activity, activity where your living depends on it)?

This sounds an awful lot like an episode from the podcast ‘Sounds Like A Cult’: The Cult of Academia.

Even when ideas are supported by good data, new and reworked from others, academia will turn themselves into pretzels against the data quality and argue in parallel amd not directly. This in my experience happens if the result goes against previous suggestion that could have save the world, so to speak. Why? 1. Difficult to let go of decades of past but limited researchIl results on which they are based, and current grants, PhD and post doc programs over 3 years may be threatened as wrong or irrelevant before completion.

i disagree with the ideas thing on the office side. one manager spoke up and said it's amazing what you can accomplish after the seniors leave or retire.

Social isolation? That makes it far harder than it already is, as it's clear that academic success is more about your network than being a scientist. especially when publishing papers, having a networks allows you to get your printed much more often than by your own work. Social isolation is always a problem, but in academia it looks like a death sentence.

This might sound as a stupid question but hope you can answer this. I did a MSc. In 2012. At the time I really considered doing a PhD but due to only having average grades never pursued it. Now 10 years later I’m reconsidering. I’ve more or less kept up on current scientific literature and gained useful real life experience. What should I keep in mind when applying to do a PhD?

SOOO TRUE!!! YES....the conformity...the desperation....the pointless power tripping.... Anarchic Mentors taught me to BURN it down and do what I think is right! 😂..and.. Write to them if I get into too much trouble ....and need help to get airlifted..... Hahahhaaha. 😂 I didn't know what that meant until recently! You are entertaining, Andy but also talk about the Rebellion pls! There's a lot of successes that come out of Rebellion and Revolution! 🎉🎉🎉

Brilliant ❤

Oups first again 😂. I should seriously stop procrastinating

Revolutionary leaps forward will come from independent research that is done outside of the accepted academic structure. These leaps forward will be resisted and suppressed if possible by the academic establishment. Those academics on top do not want to compete with others to maintain their position.

I took a bachelor's degree in engineering even though my undergrad advisor was very encouraging and 3 different graduate supervisors were very interested in me working with them in a masters program. But I had already worked for years as an electronic technician in my engineering college's labs as an undergrad and I knew the personalities, the politics and the way certain professors treated their graduate students like slaves. And so I went to work in private industry instead. I don''t think that decision has been wrong.

Right.

I think the degree of stigmatization varies by field and also what you're leaving academia for.

So, it is impossibile to become a professor?

Just look at Harvard University and the Salem Witch Trials.

Love the video. Hate the beard.

where is the extraordinary evidence for pedantic essay formatting requirements, transgender ideology, and starting classes at ungodly hours in the morning? There's plenty of evidence that schools disproportionately discipline boys over girls and zero tolerance policies are ineffective but thats still a thing in academia.

I think this reading of academia is either outdated or unfair. For example, while the stigma of leaving is a real thing, it is often more on the person leaving than their peers. In my experience, me and my friends sort of celebrated when people finished their academic career (the sad part was that meant they will very likely move away), after all, they went against the flow of things inside academia to become more economically “free” than us that stayed. Another example, the exploitation of passion is something that more frequently happens like self-exploitation, many advisors are too tangled up in their personal projects that they sort of forget of their least productive students until it is time for them to graduate (I acknowledge that this is very particular with mathematics). The charismatic leader thing really happens every single time you have a bunch of people working towards the same goal. The isolation isn’t some encouraged, in fact, at a systemic level it is discouraged through students meet up events from different programs and certain community-wide events sponsored by the University. Of course, when the workload is too large for the time and funding, one tends to push for more hours than the normal full-time job schedule. (While the systematic solutions are ineffective, this doesn’t mean you are guilt tripped or baited into isolation like in most cults.

why did you use the illuminati symbol for cult on your thumbnail picture?

Sorry big dawg this is all industries.... Retail, hospitality etc etc

Doing a PhD is not exactly a job. A PhD student doesn't only work for a supervisor. To a great extent, a PhD student is working for himself/herelf. To a great extent, the supervisor works for the student. If a student works on weekends, they're doing it for themselves, to improve their chances of securing a position and be able to work what they're passionate about. And they're doing it to improve Science and society. A lot of tenured professors work many weekends.

Good tip: don't rely on the Google instant expert to establish what a cult is. You both missed out a vitally important indicator of cult. The clue is in the language. Study the language from the perspective of a psychologist and then you will know for sure. You can also use someone's language to identify them and even figure out who is controlling them. It's the art of linguistic fingerprinting. This is a tool which they often don't guard against. You could even spot a double-agent if you got good at it.

Skull and Bones does not approve this message. 💀

Yip, very cult like.

I research this specific area, so please check your AI inbox. ;-)

Did they excommunicate you for heresy?

Please explain how you ‘ can see me in the next video’

Lack of sleep.

I created a big expectation when I saw the title of this new vídeo... What a disappointement! You fail the obvious things like the herd mentality and blind acceptance of authority by the students and researchers and you even stand by academia claiming it is very open to new ideas!! You certaintly live in different world from my own...

What was that?

Haha, that charismatic leader is simply a narcisist. I mean it a real real narcisist.

It may be like a cult but in reality you’re all publisher slaves. Elsevier, JAMA, Nature are taking all of the cash whilst you are providing all of the content and marketing ( through citations). These platform owners have the Universities on a leash to do their bidding.

Definitely a bad cult!