The Culture of Korean Gaming 

Games on screen with timestamps for people asking.. 0:00 BDO 0:29 Blue Protocol 1:24 Project BBQ 3:12 Elyon 4:48 Crimson Desert 5:07 Dungeon Fighter Online 5:08 Lineage 2 5:11 Maplestory 5:12 Legends of Mir 2 5:15 Myth of Soma 5:17 Everquest 5:18 Everquest 2 5:20 Star Wars Galaxies 5:23 WoW Classic 5:48 Lost Ark 6:38 Archeage Unchained 10:13 Phantasy Star Online New Genesis 11:03 Aion Cinematic 11:49 Chrono Odyssey 13:17 Tower of Fantasy Anything else is a repeat.

The MMO genre has gone from immersive fantasy worlds where you can lose yourself inside of a grand social experiment to overly complicated slot machines.

"I really love Korean mmo's" saying that and showing the clip where you were in full masochist outfit is pure genius xD

Yes, indeed. We Korean gamers always say something like 'this twisted game needs to be reset'. We want to change industry, but clueless about how to untie the knot.

I am reminded of City of Heroes, a MMO with a Western developer and a Korean publisher, that died because of a clash of business cultures. The outpouring of support from the game's Western fanbase was absolutely tremendous but it was ignored utterly by the publisher who pulled the plug on one of the best communities in gaming history

korean mmos are like creampuffs whitout any filling , pretty on outside but empty and bland inside

It's crazy but it is the norm for Korea, there are TON of manhwas that the whole story is about how a poor person somehow manages to be amazingly OP in a futuristic VR game and they become rich by selling the items in the game market. The stories even imply that most of the top ranking players are people that spend a lot of money for OP items

I once asked my 10 year old Korean student how to get better at some game he was talking about. He answered without even stopping to think "You use money".

You used to grind to become an unkillable god now you play slots for it. That's it in a nutshell.

I'm a simple girl. If something's free to play, I stay away.

The thing is that videogames grant a means to escape from "reality", having a plane field where everybody of any status is equal and can reach equal things. P2W destroyes that aspect

Congrats on the algorithm blessing you. I never watch videos on MMOs and this was just recommended to me.

When games become a glorified casino, I'm out. That beeing said, I do spend some money on cosmetics ect. like Warframe. But I see what I buy. Screw these gambling mechanics. Oh, and people who think they are "better" than other players just because they opened their wallets are delusional, imo.

"They suck... but i love and play them." That explain it all

From what I heard the "stamina" system is not only because of milking the players but also a governmental law. Also it allows easily to launch in China without actual monitoring of game time.

Everyone can have their own opinion, and if someone likes them that's perfectly fine. But, I'm just very glad that you made this video and talked about it honestly and realistically. I'm so tired of the crowd saying "uh you have to play every korean mmo to say if it sucks" or "you're a western s*premacist if you say korean mmo's suck", because whenever I googled the question that's the only forum discussions I found. I tried liking Aion, I played it for months and got attached to my toons, but it's just so ugh. I'm sorry to say it but I hate the game and its stupid scroll mechanic. The artstyle isn't my cup of tea either (anymore; I used to love anime inspired artstyles in games but they start looking the same after a while), though that's of course just my taste, and I dislike the gritty "naturalistic" style of many western games just as much at times.

I just shifted away of any Korean MMO

It's frustrating. I love the aesthetics but everything else just blows.

Every Korean MMO looks exactly the same even when they aren't pay 2 win they force you to pay for literally every cosmetic item or else you look like a level 1 noob the whole game because you can't earn any cool cosmetics.

Corporate Korean-style MMOs are gaining in popularity but then so are kickstarted indie MMOs that feature none of the gross monetization mechanics/planned progression lag inherent to Korean titles.

7:56 was not expecting to see natsuki here, lol

I've learned that you can either spend a lot of money or countless hours of grinding in order to compete with others.

Koreans thinking they make good game design or gameplay design choices, that's a funny joke right there.

Ragnarok Online is truly the only one that did it for me back in the day.

Korean MMOs tend to be extremely grindy, and Asian MMO's in general usually take monetization to another level... though it seems other game companys from other countries seem to be trying to more closely emulate their monetizing practices as time moves forward. I will say, that if the grind is done correctly, meaning extremely engaging and smooth ability to rotation and pathing, then I tend to like a little grind. If it's extremely repetitive and slow to execute, thats when I have an issue. Edit: Good grind example, for me at least is Black Desert. It's extremely satisfying and for the most part doesn't feel like the traditional grind. Battling huge groups of enemies packed together, using wide reaching skills and abilities, all the while being able to either move quickly or reach far enough it doesn't actually matter. A disappointing example was, for me at least, Genshin Impact. The game starts with so much potential and was really fun... but it slowly devolves as it tries to get you more involved within it's monetization system. It's semi-false "Endgame" literally has you do tooth pulling grind to actually progess. Spending money would alleviate this somewhat (through energy systems and upgrade materials), but even then it would have you slowly gain ranks to at some point render much of that moot as attaining specific ranks alters the game difficulty. This is positive only in that enemies give you better rewards for defeating them, but also means that your characters better be a specific level or else you will have a hellish slog ahead of you to level em up.

Just an early endorsement, I'm Korean and I agree that Korean MMOs are not well designed for western audiences. Lots of essentially regionally accepted norms that we don't enjoy in the west (I'm in the US)

Really enjoyed this one, you're bang on about the psychological effects and quite frankly it's disgusting that companies are allowed to do this sort of stuff to incentivize gambling & other activities.

This is the reason Kira why im done with korean mmorpg,they can make the best mmo on the planet,but we all know whats going to happen after 6-12 month (p2win) they starting too lose people and game is dead after 3-4 years!I still playing gw 2 and definitly im gonna play until the ashes of creation comes out!

I used to be someone that only played F2P mmos. I eventually noticed I never reached endgame in those games mainly because getting there is as you guessed it pay to play. I finally bit the bullet and got FFXIV. Havent looked at a F2P mmo ever since. I don't have to worry about what content this patch is only for the VIPs or whales. Love having access to all game content man.

I live in Korea, and I love games, especially well-made games with great storylines, but I noticed that people are usually in different world when we talk about games. Some of them don't even know what Witcher is.

I remember getting a lucky pull in lotro and recieving a cool mount. My excitement died a bit when I found a slightly modified version available in the cash shop. If you can just buy everything then nothing means anything.

it makes me laugh every time someone shows some hype for an upcoming KMMO, as if they have forgotten the massive dumpster fire that has been EVERY single KMMO to date. it’s like they’re an abused wife who believes the husband every time he says he’ll change.

The grinding in Korean MMOs almost destroyed my love of the genre

I remember a BDO fansite that followed the game from alpha and even did an interview with pearl abyss, you could see the dev just accepted that the korean audience sucks and if your game doesn't fit into that mold, it will fail, the fansite dude was also defeated and lost all hope when seeing the changes. That game in alpha was very, very different, only the core combat gameplay was the same, even the p2w costumes was something they didn't want to do but the korean MMO players just wouldn't buy cosmetics that did nothing.

This can also be applied to gaming as a whole, not just MMORPG or Korean. The things gaming companies can get away with nowadays is atrocious.

i literally was just talking to some one about this a few hours ago, i was curious about why korean culture creates wales in such a stark contrast. a bit bizarre this shows up on my feed that soon after. good shit

North Korea is the most hardcore survival MMO EVER.

If Western MMO's go p2w, I'll stop playing them all.

I think we have already moved to the Korean model. Maybe not to the full extent but the F2P mindset has already taken hold. It's been going in that direction for a long time. I quit EQ2 many years ago because it converted over to a F2P model. ESO started as B2P and vowed to never have a cash shop, loot boxes or not use a sub model and look at it now. Even games like WoW that are still sub model are employing some of the same gimmicks simultaneous to the box price + expansions + sub. It's ludicrous and why I'm pretty doubtful we will ever have another great MMO. Maybe AoC but they are already selling cosmetics like crazy and the game isn't even in beta. MMOs are in a sad state and look to be staying that way.

They're all beautiful but they're all so damn boring.

P2W, Gender lock, barely no visual progression without cash shop, etc... These are some of the reasons that made me quit Korean MMO's....

This made me glad I never fell into that MMO hell that most of my friends fell into. It didn't begin with an MMO, per say, but rather a competitive FPS shooter modeled after CSO. Then after that, the loot boxes happened, then the gachas.

We have seen the pay to win mentality in Eve Online when Korean and Chinese groups came onto the server and since being purchased by Pearl Abyss the attempt to more heavily monetize the game by introducing more cosmetics for the ships and focusing on improving the pvp aspect of the game where anyone not pvping seems to be becoming more of the game mechanics.

*laughs in city of heroes* *cries when realizing its now dead so it doesn't count*

Having Pay to Win or shortcut elements in a game, is no different from using steroids or performance boosting drugs in competition. I will not support this, in any shape or form. Either your game is an even playground for everyone, or it is a waste of time.

ESO already has systems in place that inconvenience you so heavily that you are almost forced to use ESO+.

My only experience with Korean MMORPGs was AION, and I'm _soooo_ glad it's in the past. Proud to say they never saw a dime from me 🙄 Edit: wrong. I forgot that Black Desert Online is Korean too, and I can say I've had a much better experience with that game than I had with AION.

Yea I just do not Play Korean MMOs and its not just the cash grab...its the damn grind, I dont mind grind but Korean MMOs grinding is like mind numbing and becomes un fun in a sense

ngl a lot of MMO game from korea are P2W and that's suck

Back in the day Lineage 2 was Subscription based and had no pay 2 win at all even being a Korean mmorpg, it was truly a masterpiece of a game before it got destroyed by p2w.

I really liked you incorporated your everyday household items into the beginning of the vid, resourceful and saves on expenditure.

Really appreciate how professionally you make these analysis videos. Your objectivity and direct assessment of issues concerning the MMO genre are big reasons why I'll always keep coming back to watch.

Something that I found very disturbing or annoying was cultural: 12 YO girl characters and cute animal races.

Most korean who (20-30 age) are sick of the P2W games... but Publisher kept making P2W MMORPG games cuz they don't wanna gamble and sadly it works well (guaranteed income) this shit Circumstance sustained from almost 15 years and broken wheel still tumbling I Can't blame on this things to Game companies but, if they keep depend on P2W System I can guarantee your Shiiitt stocks will break apart as well :) especially 3N (Nexon Ncsoft Netmarble)

Korean MMO are made as gambling machine, they don't treat their game as real game which is why every Korean game sucks so bad. For Example Black Desert Online, they don't have pity system which should makes weapon/gear enhancing to be guaranteed 100% after so many fail. Sure BDO has caphras or other guarantee PEN upgrades but the efforts is insanely dumb which makes people treat this game like their second job. I'm talking here as BDO veterans who have almost every gear at PEN.

Just the aesthetics of Korean MMOs are enough to put me off tbh

Yaaaaaas the gamigo love gif lmao. Yeah i don't get that culture. Make the money problem even worse, let's push that in your hobby as well. Feeling not bad enough? Hold my beer. :P

I know it's just back round stuff but Blue Protocol is a Japanese mmo

Reasons why I don't even check out these games, even though I often love the way they look.

This is why I don't play MMOs in general. There's way too much bullshit associated with the genre. I used to work in advertising. I know exactly what they are doing. The moment I log in I can see how they are trying to funnel people into the cash shop by intentionally making the game more grindy or frustrating to play. I'm sorry but I'm not going to waste my time on a game that doesn't respect mine. The fact that they want me pay money to skip that just builds up more and more resentment from me to the point where I will quit and actively discourage other people from playing your game. I will also bully people who have all the high level shit because I know they most likely didn't actually earn it and just payed for it. IMO paying for power in a video game is the ultimate form of failure in that game. If you're paying money so as to not pay the game then the game itself clearly isn't worth any money. In fact they should probably be paying you money to play if it's that shit.

Everything started when some rich guy got pawned in PVP by some random unemployed guy called NoobMaster69! :)

The ball gag 😂😂

Amazing video! I hope for the future we keep watch on these mechanics (like countries slowly banning loot boxes as gambling) and make it NOT be a thing. 100% if companies get to do what they want and if chieldren grow up with f2p games this will be normalized, but things can be done about it.

I'm not adverse to spending money , but I dislike gambling . It's not ethical ; I just don't enjoy it . Therefore the spread of lootbox mechanics has seen me retreat from spending in mmo's

Btw, I loved Ragnarok Online back when they let us beta test it in the West. Once it was subscription only I had to stop playing though since I was just a kid back then, had no income and my parents would never spend money on a game subscription for me :'c

I will never forgive Nexon for killing off Monster Squad...

I never play Korean games competitively for this reason

a lot of people are attracted to them because of the art(2d,3d,animation etc.), my god the art direction on most of these games is awesome to me lol the dream would be a sensible game design team a korean art team and a publisher that doesnt want to suck the life out of you, a game like that would pop off hard imo.

I'm watching a video describing how an internet Cafe works as if its a foreign concept, while being old enough to see the rise and fall of internet cafes in America.

I feel like asian games in general are grindy on a level i just cant comprehend, korean, chinese, or japanese. I don't feel satisfied leveling up after 30 fights of the same monster, because the next area 3 steps away the monster level jumps 10 higher. I'll stick to sims like Rimworld and co-ops like Deep Rock Galactic. In fact, i think FF14 is the only non-western mmo i've enjoyed, and i still didnt get into the savage raids because im not a fan of that kind of abuse.

A lot of Korean MMO's share such a similar art style and draw from the same inspirations that they start to feel generic. I've also noticed that many (not all) tend to lean on the grindier side and opt more for a pay-2-win microtransaction shop rather than charge a monthly subscription. I feel this tends to hurt the overall quality and enjoyment of the core game itself. There are of course exceptions to the rule but this is just my observation.

I hear you like grinding.. so we added grinding to your grinding with a side of grind (Looking at you Lineage 1 and 2)

0:00 - Intro 1:02 - MMonetization & Cultural Effect 6:30 - Game Design 9:58 - Publishers vs Developers 14:42 - Outro

I only dabble in the Korean MMOs for the reasons you stated. As you said, they're for a different audience. The grind mountain, P2W, and ridiculous crafting RNG hit about 1/3 to halfway into max level. That's when I exit. I'm fine disappearing into the sun around the mid-20s or early 30s. I enjoy them while I can and never look back.

This revelation is disheartening. I thought we were on our way to open Korean dev eyes and make them take our "culture" into account. 💔

Dude, the gamigo ball gag bit from back when had me dying. I need to go find that vid again

the biggest reason korean mmo's end up bad is the simple fact that they just dont seem to get the rpg part of the term mmorpg and compensate for it with cashshop items and other character dooddads to help players make their own stories.

Damn I miss Cryy😔

Nah I'll never touch a pay to win game. *NEVER* No matter how accepted it becomes. Charge me a subscription. Charge for expansions. But the second your wallet matters more than skill, experience, and mastery of the meta I'm gone.

Korean mmorpg be like: sexy female characters (preferably with minimal clothing) with lighting eyes, and male buff characters with long haircuts and lots of donate

Is nobody going to bring up the fact that Kira wore a balaclava and a ballgag for this video??? That's dedication right there.

After kickstarters worst thing about mmo genre is korean dev or their hunger

Ragnarok Online was my first MMORPG and I love it

Korean MMOs: Expensive, more grindy than an actual job, beautiful as hell. I personally like the system that GW2 brought in: Buy 2 Play + entirely cosmetic microtransactions. This way, you have a steady stream of income from shiny outfits without handing anyone an I WIN button for whipping out their credit card.

"Why should I have to be behind other players when I can pay money and skip ahead!" Hmm... I don't know. Maybe because it's unfair to people who don't have that kind of cash and specifically, why do you want to pay to skip in the first place? Don't you want to play, to actually experience the game? Or do you want to lord over others without actually doing all that much in the game? Of course I understand that people work hard for their money, and that definitely has some merit. However, the systems these people are feeding by buying into them didn't have to exist for the game to be fun and most of them are extremely predatory. Normalizing such things are just making it worse as time goes on and I am thankful that in some cases we are taking steps away from such things, like the general sentiment that lootboxes and similar systems are horrible for so many reasons and should probably either be made illegal or regulated as a form of gambling.

We had these pc caffes in Brazil back in 2000's, all us youngsters would gather to play either counter strike or tibia. Shame it died

Duh, they're cash grab 99% of the time. Theres some that shine but as we've seen in the past, they've always turned to "Gimmie da money or you get no fun PEON!"

The only Korean MMO I loved was Blade and Soul it was actuallt good the only issues with it tho was the optimization and the P2W

Just play ff14, where the skin ain't greasy af and you can be a cat boi

Today, I just uninstalled BDO and deleted my game account. As a semi hardcore player, the greedy developer and the game psychologist have definitely played a huge part in making me spend over 10k on BDO over the span of 7 years. The never-ending cycles of insanely tedious, often gated by RNG, game progress and achievements felt insignificant even after getting 730+ GS. I still felt something was missing in my game account. Hence, wanting for more gear progression by grinding mobs in a circle or mass producing lifeskilling items, knowledge hunting, questing, guild activities...etc The bdo has turned from a fun entertainment hobby to 2nd job. Purposefully preconditioned my mind into thinking that "I MUST play BDO everyday." I ultimately felt like a hamster in a wheel that never stops and never satisfied. A big fuck you to the greedy game developer.

(insert greta thunberg's meme) "How Dare You!"

You should interview "Steve", he is a famous Korean and maplestory youtuber and he makes english content, would be cool to know different perspectives.

0:20 never forget this moment in your glorious career!

Saying "I'm rich so I should be better in this video game than poor people" is like saying in football (real American football), that because I'm rich, I should be the only one to have football pads because I can afford them. That whole argument makes no effin sense. Like what? The whole mechanic behind gaming is "playing" them. Just like "playing" a sport. So all skins, techniques, mounts, etc should be earned through playing. You don't have the right to be better at something just because you have money. These are skill based activities just like sports. You don't get to buy your way to the top just like Jeff Bezos doesn't get to "buy" a Heisman trophy. You earn that shit. That's part of the reason people PLAY sports or PLAY games. Because everyone is equal and anyone can make it to the top if they just put the time and effort into it. Why even play a game at all if you can just buy your way to the top anyway? No one thinks better of you? You have to earn that shit. Either Git Gud or GTFO. (Brought to you by someone who's never played an MMO in his life)

Josh Strife Hayes has a good vid on F2P vs monthly sub and it correlates well with this topic as Korean games are F2P/P2W. F2P games actively engineer artificial problems into their game so they can sell you the solution. They take time away from making the best game they could possibly make, and invest that time into things to ACTIVELY HINDER THE PLAYER. (Korean games in a nutshell) They're complete garbage, but man they sure are pretty though. rofl.

Guess it’s time to play mod Skyrim again

An interesting case I've experienced is a Korean MMO called Dragon Nest, which eventually converted most of its cash shop-only inventory into shops that can be purchased from with in-came currencies (I don't know if this was just in overseas regions or in Korea also). Tons of things that used to be inaccessible to people playing for free can now be obtained with hard work (including cosmetics which, oddly, now play as big a role in your stats as non-cosmetics... you basically need two sets of armor, weapons, accessories, etc). Of course, that's not to say they didn't double down on cash items which reduce grind, that's a given, but in doing so they also removed the loot box system (dragon eggs) entirely, which I don't think ANYONE who played the game or MMOs in general could have seen coming. I still can't tell what this is indicative of for the game's health but it's pretty interesting at least. :/

and this is why ff 14 does so well, They care about their western audience.

Hm...This has opened my eyes to see not just in front of me, but what lies on the other side of the hill. Alright, first off obligatory "been a gamer for over 17 years and am now 32 years of age. My first PC game was on the DOS, I played vanilla Everquest, WoW and 34+ MMO's start to min/max" insert. I never really thought about it, but you're right; there really is a cultural difference at play, not to mention all the behind-the-scenes deals and interactions. This video is extremely well done and I will be sharing this, you've got my sub, for what it is worth.

I tried to tell my friend that a lot of these games allow rmt because the companies themselves will set the rates for rmt. Black desert was free a couple of days ago and I tried it and it was the most disgusting game I've ever played it was worse than world of Warcraft and wow is just running around I don't like MMOs anymore I realize this I just want a multiplayer game with randoms like payday or something MMOs are completely dead