HiMary the Mother is the lightbringer Lucifer she lives inside of all of our hearts she is the "antimatter" that comes to destroy Atoms as the fascia system of the body takes over as one system Satan in text as we know it is her son/ jealous hijacking brother, also represented as Saturn the subconscious, which we do need but we needed it to come to the light I love your work thank you
I have never heard of Ghost before but I'm very interested. Could you do a deep dive on Ghost? Starting with the band members and their earlier careers, especially Tobias's earlier music and any other early music that the others have produced, the conceptualization of the band, and culminating in the main focus of it being the world and lore they created and how it's represented through the songs. I would be very interested in seeing more from interviews that they have done where they answer questions about the world they built in the lore around it or the meanings of song lyrics. Thank you! - A Future Ghost Fan
I have never heard of Ghost before but I'm very interested. Could you do a deep dive on Ghost? Starting with the band members and their earlier careers, especially Tobias's earlier music and any other early music that the others have produced, the conceptualization of the band, and culminating in the main focus of it being the world and lore they created and how it's represented through the songs. I would be very interested in seeing more from interviews that they have done where they answer questions about the world they built and the lore around it or the meanings of song lyrics. Thank you! - A Future Ghost Fan
One thing that I've always found to be odd about Knowles is that he claims to have been an atheist for most of his life, and that might be true for all I know, but I've heard him several times refer to the supposedly sinful behavior that he indulged in during that time, like frequent casual s*x, which honestly just sounds like indirect bragging 😅 And yet, he seems to have a quite close- minded, conservatively Christian view on non-religiosity - which is a bit strange for someone who claims to have converted to Christianity as an adult. You'd think he'd be able to describe what it's like to not be religious without resorting to hyperbole, but instead his views on non- religious people seem to be very much in line with the views of people who grow up being told by their community what people who don't practice religion are like.
The fact that he's scared of this mild Catholic-esque imaginary is just hilarious to me when in st Peter and Paul cathedral in Vatican City they have a literal corpse in glass coffin in the centre of the church just laying there lol
I have been to the Sedlec Ossuary in the Czech Republic which is literally a church decorated from wall to wall and floor to ceiling with the bones and skulls of 40,000 real people. Because that is obviously holy and not creepy at all.
@@the_entropia st Mary's assumption here has the full skeleton of father seelos in the church and multiple cases of relics of other people. Seelos's breast bone is on full display.
It's also funny because most people don't love Ghost because they're a super satanic cult, we love them because we think Tobias is funny and cute and the music is good and their message is to treat everyone with respect and to love and accept yourself. Yes, satan is a part of their image, but Tobias himself has said that he doesn't view satan in the same way most religious people do-- he doesn't believe that satan exists, he sees him as a symbol of rock and roll, humour, and self-confidence. There are fans of Ghost who are Christian (which is a little funny to me); the point of Ghost isn't to promote satanism. It's to promote equality and self-acceptance.
Especially equality of pleasure. That was a distinct theme in the music for a minute. As a former Catholic and a lesbian, ghost's music touches my soul right in the post catholic trauma.
ehhh. i kind of don't really like this direction that some fans take when defending the band from accusations like this. 'theyre not really satanic, they're just having fun!!!' it kind of gives into the depiction some christians want you to have of satanism, it talks about satanism as if it IS evil and that ghost isn't actually doing evil nasty satanic stuff. the fact of the matter is that it IS satanic, it embodies a branch of satanism very connected to opposing christian values, the very harmful ones. people are actually satanists and i feel like continuously framing the band as if they're not actually promoting satanic values swivels right on back to alluding that the band actually has christian values. i get what you're trying to say, but it sort of rubs me the wrong way. i feel like I can't openly say that im a satanist in the fandom of a literal satanic band bc of the stigma satanism still somehow has in the space
@@Roby1Kenobi I work with older people and they love the music. I've never shown them pictures of the band but I did put a grucifix in the Halloween decorations.
In one of Tobias's interviews he said that he wants the concert goers to have a religious experience without the guilt unlike how organized religion driven by guilt of not being good enough. We only look scary, we're actually quite nice.
Before this even comes out this is why I love Ghost so much. They’re like the music of Boston with the lyrics of Gorgoroth. I love the music and I love how wound up people get when they realize what the songs are about 😂
Still baffles me that Christians get all hot under the collar whenever they get a whiff of anything vaguely blasphemous in a popular song, but entire subgenres of metal are getting a free pass? Like, maybe they think that getting upset every time a new black metal album comes out, that they'll invoke the Streisand effect.
Remember, Knowles played a gay guy in some low budget movie. And it wasn't about boys holding hands. He's not actually upset about this. He has his conservative, Catholic snowflake role to play in media and so he does. Such a grifter.
@@Lerian_V What do you call someone who graduated bottom of their class from the easiest program Yale has to offer? Mike Knowles. Ben "Women aren't supposed to get wet" Shapiro graduated from Harvard. It's clear that the Ivies have let standards slip to the point where they'll give a degree to anyone who's willing to grease the tight palms and slob the right knobs. I bet the first thing Mike bought after he got his degree was a fresh pair of kneepads.
I love how Christian Conservative media has just looped back around to doing cringey pearl-clutching satanic panic videos about popular music again. If they didn't have something to be outraged about they wouldn't even know what to do with themselves.
I’m one of the crowd who thought the song was “perverse” the first time I heard it, but I actually love that angle- the church as I know it is plagued by purity culture and controlling people’s sexuality, so the idea that going down on someone is holy, beautiful, and ‘I see nothing wrong with that’ gives me a lot of joy even if Ghost didn’t intend that meaning. ❤️🔥
They think THAT’S the most blasphemous song Ghost has ever made??? That’s so funny. Yeah forget about all the “hail satan”s HAHAHA… ah… I love Ghost 💀❤️
The opening line of con clavi con dio sent the people behind me at a ritual in Atlanta running. They were cool with everything till that song started and freaked out, and ran out after year zero and prime mover played. Mary on a cross isn't the most in your face song they have.
@@VincentEdelstein right. When I first watched his reaction to Mary on a cross I said the same thing, wait if this is too much, don't look any further then, because anything off infesstisumam will give you nightmares, not that there's anything wrong with that album.
My roommate brought her Christian fan to the Ghovie and she was fine with it for the most part but the "Our Father Who Art in Hell..." part of Ritual really got to her apparently. Satan forbid they played Satan Prayer or The Depth of Satan's Eyes.
These things don't scare or trigger us. We are just concerned about the damage the people who are engaged in it are doing to themselves and to their naive followers. And some of the main actors themselves are just as naive. It's mostly driven by the juvenile desire to be trangressive, edgy, rebellious and all that fun stuff. I'm a Catholic just like Knowles, we are not Evangelicals who get triggered by Satanism or spooky stuff.
@@Lerian_V For me, Ghost is incredibly cathartic and freeing to listen to. The edginess and gothic theatrics are definitely fun, but the lyrics cut deep. They're about independence, freedom, self confidence, resisting what has been confining you. For a lot of people, being raised religious was a very negative experience, so having those teachings and ideas be flipped on their head to be something empowering instead is a powerful, emotional experience. Its spiritual catharsis I was raised protestant rather than catholic so parodying the aesthetics doesn't hit as hard for me. But tje themes seem similar enough that "Satan" (the resistance against religious dogma and encouraging individuality) is similar enough between the two that I still relate to it. "He Is" is the most emotionally cathartic song for me, followed by "Spillways". Both absolutely beautiful, both still sometimes give me chills
@@Lerian_VKnowles did get triggered, though, and the fact you’re replying in so many comments that you’re _definitely not triggered_ seems to imply you are also, in fact, triggered.
I once had a conversation with the singer of a "truth metal" band, which was in his case, standard death metal on the surface but Christian in the lyrics and themes. He told me that many of the churches in his area had condemned his band for being "satanic", despite many of the songs being Bible stories, and many of lyrics directly drawn from the Bible. His songs were no more "satanic" than priests, street evangelists and Sunday school teachers telling people and kids that they would burn and Hell for their sins. But, of course the reason that So many Good Christians TM were accusing him of devilry and Satanism was that THEY couldn't understand it. Their minds were so closed that anything denied entry was automatically labelled "evil and satanic".
just want to point out the greatest piece of metal composition i have ever heard is PAINKILLER, a song about an angel of vengeance destroying evil by Judas Priest, a band led by a gay christian man. and one of the infamous filthy fifteen.
@@pathevermore3683 And that was a point raised by Black Sabbath too. They were accused of being satanic, but they were singing about the fear of Satan not the adoration.
@@UberNoodle Even a lot of anti-Christian black metal just seems to be lyrically indistinguishable from early 1800s anti-masonic Conservative Catholic propaganda so I struggle to see it as authentically non-Christian in content. The idea that everyone would respect each other if they understood each other is a bit optimistic for me. A lot of hateful people have a need to hate they choose not to understand because its convenient. For these closed non-conformist Christian communities being apart from the sinful world is too core to their purpose. The desire to be 'holier than thou' comes before any other choice they make with their lives. Its not musical stylings they find satanic its the concept of the satanic other that gives them a sense of a place in the world. I find Tobias' attitude kind of juvenile compared to blues songs that use a sincere fear of Satan to talk about topics like drug addiction but at least he doesn't forget the fun part of being juvinile and makes listenable music,
Speaking of creepy Catholic Churches--I went into a baroque chapel in Prague and they had a sculpture of a cherub holding a platter, and placed atop of it were two severed breasts.
Ghost was such a helpful band to listen to when I was deconstructing Catholicism. It’s hilarious that they picked one of the more tame songs from a “blasphemy” perspective lmao
I literally forgot ‘go down’ had sexual connotations. When I hear the lyric I felt like it was relating to death or history, with the cross imagery already being provoked.
Dude is dirty minded then 😂Since most Ghost songs play with words, this one also have it's multible meanings so it's meant to be interpertated in different ways because that is what makes it fun. What we chose to interpretate it as will surely tell who we are and what we think of, like an ink test. It's obvious that this dude first thought was litterly just sex, how sad.
"Go down just like Holy Mary" is not necessarily sexual at all. "Go down" is a phrasal verb that means "be recorded or remembered in a particular way" or "sink"... "Go down ON" is a different phrasal verb and I don't hear it in the song.
Yassss Ghost and Powerwolf have been my favorite bands of the last 3-4 years, truly a tag team of artists using religious imagery theatrically, with "perverse" themes (hello, Resurrection by Erection)
As a longtime fan of ghost... I'm honestly surprised it took this long for conservatives to take note. Fun fact they were originally recording the album Infestissumam in the soutern US but had to relocate to the west coast because they couldn't find a choir willing to sing the satanic choir parts of the album
Didn't take all of them long--both of my divorced parents disowned me in 2018 over me going to a Ghost concert. 💀😂 Fully stopped assisting me in the middle of college. Ended up rebuilding relationships with them since then, but they don't even remember the inciting incident was their own "satanic panic."🙄
@@Blscientest Bad parents, there is no excuse for parents to do such thing, one does not abandon their child for such trivial matter, I'm honestly shocked! Glad your relationship with them is getting better tho, not too late to fix broken relationships but damn talk about overreacting from their part.
This isn't even blasphemy! Ghost uses religious symbols and figures as metaphors, like it's a way to tell a certain story. Mary on a cross is a prime example, it actually has nothing to do with THE Mary. Ghost is far from blasphemy, if that guy heard some ACTUAL blasphemous rock and metal (for example, Nunslaughter or Persecutory), he'd have a stroke.
@@underoakssblasphemy isn't even a real crime or a thing and everyone accusing someone of blasphemy is pretty much making up their personal definition of the word so yeah
I'm so glad you mentioned the "dungeons and dragons murders" because it truly proves the point you were making. Really the Von Stein murders. This actually happened in my town. My dad and his uncle knew the Von Stein kids and my uncle was actually close to the daughter of the family. They had been to their house and hung out with them before. It is truly crazy how the media portrayed the story, it got out of control. Chris (their son) just wanted the inheritance money and he devised a plan with two of his friends who he played D&D with at NC State. People took this and ran with it, saying demons had influened them to do this, that the game corrupted them. Which is just crap. Our town is super small but it is filled with many rich, old-money, families. The neighborhood they lived in, Smallwood, has many upper class families that live there and Chris just wanted to speed up the process of receiving the money he thought he deserved. Our town is also very religious and many people knew the Von Steins. They could not believe that Chris would do something like this and so they grasped onto the "demon" theory. They could not believe that something we hear about on TV could happen in our small town. I would go trick or treating every year in Smallwood and we would pass by the Von Stein house. There are new people living there now but everyone remembers what happened there. Aside from the controversy, Washington is a wonderful southern river town with good people. I hate that the media sensationalized everything. We occasionally get crime buffs who will want to see the house, however, we as a town have moved on and it is not something that is talked about anymore.
Not sure about how much swearing language changed over the years, but there are definitely different swearing "cultures". Italians still use lots of christian swearing, Germans (meee!) tend to say a lot of fecal stuff like shit and Americans apparently use more s*x oriented stuff like f*ck and so on. What's interesting is that he tries to compare modern day USA to middle age europe - how is that supposed to work out? Is he just conveniently forgetting about all the other descendents of middle age europeans who still live in europe?
The answer to your question about Michael Knowles' knowledge of European culture, past and present: yes. If he ever knew anything to begin with. The only thing he's thinking of is Americaland!
@@Lord_Marquaad This I actually 100% disagree with. Stories are important. They’re the building blocks of culture. Regardless of whether or not you think they’re true, fairy tales and myths and legends impact people. And having at least a basic understanding of them is important.
@@Nick-ij5nt That’s not really what blasphemy means in almost any context. “Trans ideology” isn’t even one thing, and it’s definitely not a religion or something sacred. Anyone telling you otherwise is feeding you propaganda.
Its funny bc ghost is: ‘oooo scary satanic’ but Tobias’s main message it to care for one another and look out for the little guys, which is a lot more Christian than a lot of Christians these days
I spy a little Copia back there! And ftr, my favorite Ghost song is 'Spillways' because I relate to having a cruel inner beast tied to catharsis that you need in order to survive life
Wait until Knowles discovers Blake's "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell," or worse than that, the Bible. Most Catholics don't read it, favoring commentary over primary sources, but there is some pretty gruesome and risqué stuff in there.
Yes but the key difference is the framework by which you understand the bible. Through secular lens and secular culture the gruesomeness and risque content are "bad" (for a lack of a better succinct description) due to surface level valuations of them. However this misses the Catholic philosophy that fundamentally people are drawn to self serving acts and they have consequences. The torture and execution of Jesus and the Apostles wasnt to just as shock value but to demonstrate the degree to which people will rationalize and justify horrible acts to preserve worldy benefits like power and sense of pride. Not to mention many carry deep multilayered symbolic meanings that mirror other parts of the bible and the Christian ethics. Whilst Knowles lacks the proper formulation of his arguments, his underlying opposition to them is correct. This comes from a Ghost enjoyer and Catholic. I acknowledge, American Protestants would be appaled if they actually read the bible but that is due to Protestants having flawed frameworks from the start.
These guys’ music reviews are absolutely ridiculous. I don’t know why they do them. Matt Walsh reviewed a BTS music video and stated, “Is this even dancing? They can’t dance.” Of ALL things to claim about that group, to say they can’t dance is wild. But eh, as much as I’d like to believe that Walsh thinks he can judge dancing skills, he’s likely wanting to provoke ppl to leave comments.
As a youth in the late 80s and 90s and living through the Satanic Panic, It’s always funny for me to watch conservatives go down this rabbit hole of society has collapsed based on one popular song. btw, the Satanic Panic is what led me to be an atheist in junior high school.
And that’s what made me more curious about witchcraft and why I’ve been practicing it for years. No I’m really not guilty for being a witch. Their loss.
So he didn't get the whole reference to the satanic panic even though he read it? I would love to see him review Type O Negative's Christian Woman. I think his head would explode.
Genuinely Ghost has been a super helpful band to me. I don't listen as much any more but the openly anti-Christian imagery was so Cathartic for me while I was trapped in a regressive Christian environment where no one could know about my apostasy. Behemoth was also a great band for this although they're not nearly as mainstream as Ghost. I love any time you mention metal (or whatever you want to consider Ghost)!
Behemoth is one of my favorites, mostly because of the dark and atmospheric sound. Someday, I’ll buy one of their shirts and wear it while grocery shopping, lol
@@psychosalad6653 I still have to pretend I would never listen to them around my family, but between you and me, The Satanist is one of the best metal albums ever made
if he thinks mary on a cross is blasphemous, he'll lose his mind over the line in cirice: "i know your soul is not tainted, even though you've been told so"
Interesting fact “the exorcism “ was a response to the movie “rosemarys baby” where evil won in the end and the exorcism was supposed to be the rebuttal where good wins over evil. It was all propaganda.
Wasn’t it based on a book? They made the movie version purely as a rebuttal of Rosemary’s Baby? Honestly, I can’t blame them. Rosemary’s Baby was…yeah, I can definitely say I hated that ending.
The way I was introduced to Ghost was via a cat meme that had the intro to Year Zero - a tongue-in-cheek way to imply a cat is like Satan. Quite medieval but facetious if you ask me
Mine was when I was hanging out with friends exploring youtube and the host eventually showed us the year zero lyric video. I was so high that I mistook the detailed Papa art with all the wrinkles for a beerus-esque demon face, facing forward and forshortened.
Was finally able to finish the video. Prequelle is symbolism of the plague placed on society after the Anti Christ takes over, and Tobias himself stated that Impera is about the fall of empires, hence the lyrics in RotS "Nothing ever lasts forever, we will go softly into the night". This dude Tobias is an absolute musical, storytelling, and theatrical GENIUS
Thanks for the comment! I knew Prequelle was about the plague and death, but I didn’t realize it was supposed to symbolize specifically the plague on society after the antichrist takes over.
@theantibot no problem, I'm a Ghost superfan and know a decent amount of the lore lol, I believe at Papa 3's last show, Papa Nihil came on stage and said something like "I am ending this party, the new age starts now". Life Eternal at the end of Prequelle's age of plague going into Impera with its story signifying the end of an era is just amazing
How does this "Holy Man" not know Papa? I HAVE GHOST, SO I HAVE EVERYTHING!!!!🤘🖤👻The biggest reason I subscribed to you is cuz of your love for GhostBC
@@theantibot Southern Baptist preachers daughter here. You really hit home when you explained your love for "He Is". I feel that same conviction. The force that made me be. It's very existential to me. I call myself an old world Pagan, that's in love with science. So that line, just puts it all in perspective to me. Thank you for sharing that with us. 🖤👻🤘
I found Ghost very recently because I'd been hearing Mary On A Cross in so many different RU-vid shorts, and I've loved all the music that I've heard from them.
@@slitheen3 I just want see Knowles face as he talks about swearing before the Devil. Lol. I don't know which one was first but in the early pandemic RU-vid thought I needed up beat devil worshipping music.
If he‘s already on the edge of his seat, freaking about about mary on a cross, wait until he listens to literally their entire first album. He is not gonna survive that one
I think the discussion on people who enjoy complexity vs people who want simplicity can also be discussed as addressing systems vs addressing symptoms. We saw it with COVID. Conservative voices were discussing the symptoms of COVID not being a big deal and how the symptoms of mitigation efforts were damaging. Progressives were discussing how to set up testing facilities and distribute resources so more people could survive the pandemic, addressing weak points in the system.
VIDEO SUGGESTION FOR YOU: There is a book called "The Cheese and The Worms" by Carlo Ginsburg. Your conversation with Drew about groups in history who were interested in demons/satan/the occult brought the book back to my mind. (My minor in university was history, and I read The Cheese and the Worms for a class.) It is an absolutely fascinating book documenting the trial of a (male, surprisingly!) miller who was burned at the stake for heresy by the Roman Catholic church. I think it is a book that you would find very interesting, and Drew might also! You could each do episodes about it on your respective channels.
46:45. He states that the Bahemot statue in a state capital is worship of Bahemot. But when the ACLU tries to stop the Ten Commandments from being erected on state grounds, I’m sure he’s quick to say it doesn’t violate separation of church and state
Fun fact: Ghost had trouble getting their song “Year Zero” recorded because they were recording it in Nashville and wound up having to finish the recording in Los Angeles because they couldn’t find a choir that was willing to sing the satanic lyrics 😂
I really enjoy Ghost but as far as metal is concerned they’re a fairly tame choice to get all Tipper Gore about. The guy would have a heart attack with like a band Rotting Christ or Dissection.
I love how Knowles and his ilk often just flat out tell you that they have no interest in actually understanding the thing they're angry about and looking at it with even the slightest trace of critical thinking. Knowles at the beginning of his segment flat out tells his audience that he's never seen the song, he's only talking about it because someone told him how terrible it was, and he doubts he's even gonna properly listen to it. But he's DEFINITELY going to tell you how terrible it is and why you should think so too! Sometimes of his ilk don't even put on the pretence of looking at the thing. They just say that they would never look at it because it'd be so "pointless, offensive or unchristian" to do so. Although they've never actually looked at it, and likely neither has the person and told them how terrible it was in the first place. I'm sure even the religious audience of these videos wouldn't accept that kind of reasoning in most aspects of their lives: "Bob says it's bad, so it must be bad. So I'm not even going to properly look at it, because obviously it's bad."
I personally don’t except that line of reasoning at all. At least the ministries that look TOO DEEP into a lot of things- like Little Light Studios- are willing to watch/listen.
Speaking of spooky Catholic imagery, I went to a Catholic university and there was a HUGE crucifix on the front wall of one of the buildings which was used as a meeting point. Everyone called it the creepy Jesus, because it was a realistic (as much as possible in bronze) larger than life depiction of a human being being tortured to death. 🤮
34:10 another factor: Satan was often portrayed as being anti-aurhoritarian (especially when that authority is divine or an extension of the divine) by the church, as a way to convey that going against the authority of the church (and extension of the authority of God) was evil. When the Church was toppled and people understood this as a good thing, the narrative of Satan as the anti-aurhoritarian suddenly would seem like the good guy through this new lens
You see, this is why I love Ghost. They have great music, and anything that’s going to have conservatives banging their heads (on a wall) is going to have my support.
Seestor is my favorite character in the lore lol, OH MY GOD Call Me little Sunshine was my first Ghost song too! My ex said "You've gotta watch this wild ass music video", and I've been hooked since
As a "fallen" Catholic, it's so embarrassing how thin his criticism is. I love Ghost and I could give better commentary on why this is sacrilegious. The twisting of Catholic imagery is just a way of mocking the powerful, which is a vital element rock and metal.
I fell in love with Ghost as an atheist. After two rituals, and discovering Amigo the Devil via Murder by Death, I came back to Christianity. It wasn't solely the music that brought me back, but it definitely played a role. Ghost's imagery made me crave the real thing in my life. Ghost helps you to strip away the human trappings of religion and see there is beauty in it. I still question, and I'm glad I do. I wouldn't want a blind faith. "I know your soul is not tainted, even though you've been told so."
I wonder if we could get Michael Knowles to watch another of my favorite groups to use religious imagery: Army of Lovers. Ghost fans may know of them from the "Crucified" cover, and the original is very gay and dope.
Army of Lovers, another great swedish band. Crucified my be their most successful song but my personal favorite is Obsession, was obsessed with the song lol.
Also here is some more food for thought : IF Christ only appeared in Light-Form , not being a physical human , yet able to be perceived and interacted with as IF He was a real human , then a lot more things start making sense , and some false-stories about Him may be revealed as people's own stories , and not the actual events that did occur .
Jist wait till Mikey finds out about Twin Temple I was introduced to Ghost in 2012 but "gave them up" when i went back to Bible College in 2016 since they were satanic 😅 honestly grateful that tiktok reminded me of them
Twin Temple! Ah the best support band I saw, still so sad that I haven't seen them live on their own yet. They had a club show near me but on the same day as a concert I had planned, the concert got cancelled on the day of the concert so I would still be able to go. I didn't really know what to expect when I walked into the venue and saw their stage set up but I am happy with what I got.
I grew up in church and this always annoyed me to no end. The absolute panic surrounding rock and metal (and horror movies for that matter), that apparently is still going on. Anything that evokes an emotional response and an adrenaline rush, whether it's excitement or fear, is seen as demonic and evil. For me that was one of the earliest realizations that religion was a joke. And remember, all that bands like Ghost do is make use of imagery that the church came up with in the first place. They are so afraid of this stuff that they actually pushed onto the rest of the world in the first place. Quite ironic.
Even though elements of horror appear in the Bible specifically to invoke a fear of God and what would happen if you didn’t keep the covenant. I actually went to Puritan Board once and there was a user there who essentially encouraged reading horror stories (like Frankenstein, Dracula, etc.) due to how they can put the fear of and desire for God in you with their depictions of evil and human depravity.
Howdy. Pagan here. There's something very fascinating to me about the way people respond to religious trauma. I have a very unusual personal history for someone who grew up in Texas; I relate to the experience of religious trauma, but from a more atheist place. My entry to paganism was frought with a lot of toxic anti-atheist talking points that I'm still working out of my system. Ghost is a lot of fun. I've spent time in circles with theistic satanists (wholesome progressive ones) and it kinda tipped me off that Ghost feels a lot more like gospel and hymnal style music with a theistic satanist bent. I think one of the most enjoyable dynamics this prompts is this kind of hysterical reaction from people like Knowles, who recognize the trappings of religious exultation in the music, but can't stomach the very simple inversion of their belief system. I think there's a healthiness that comes from being open to other viewpoints and perspectives, and found this review pretty refreshing as a consequence. The one hiccup I have is that y'all seem to buy into myths about christianity as somehow essentially running counter to art and this is just absolute hogwash. Art isn't some particular group's domain. Even conservatives make good art sometimes. I think it's extremely strange to act as if Christians can't make excellent art when there's an entire thriving culture of Christian art that carries quite a lot of cultural weight to this day. What's getting in Knowles's way isn't his Christianity, but as you said before, his need for things to be simple. That need is so powerful that it even makes its way into his spirituality, encouraging him to cling to these extremely rigid and inflexible ideas about god and spirit, and divorcing himself from the obvious and natural complexity of "God's Creation" as he might put it if he were feeling spicy and creationist. Obviously plenty of Christians think similarly, but what I want to drill in and thrust my finger at is that it's a need for simplicity that is driving the sort of us/them thinking that both y'all AND Knowles show in this video. Knowles needs morality to be simple and clean: God is Good and Satan is bad. But y'all have adopted this same script, partially, but just flipped it around: Christianity is Bad and NonChristianity is Good. This just isn't real. It's a bad approach and it'll prevent you from appreciating the full beauty of art, if you let it. Christian art can be really good. I've been deeply moved recently by Kendrick Lamar's Mr. Morale and the Big Steppers, which is absolutely DRENCHED in Christianity and Christian symbolism. I don't want to tear y'all a new one or anything. I really enjoyed this video, I'd just be wary of that impulse to simplify things to have clear and defined villains. Nothing ever really seems to be that simple. Especially when religion is involved. I worship Hastur by the way. I'm one of the strangest ducks.
I appreciate your thoughts here. I’m curious if you’ve watched some of my other content? Putting the opinion expressed on Christian art aside, both of us routinely express on this channel that Christianity doesn’t automatically equal bad. Hell, just watch my video before this one and I think that’ll be obvious. But, anyway, I appreciate your thoughts nonetheless, and agree that it’s not helpful to put things in good and bad boxes.
Also just as a random aside that is of questionable relevance to y'all's channel, but in addition to Ghost, I'm also quite fond of the band Zeal & Ardor. Z&A blends elements of slave spirituals from early American history with black metal aesthetics and style, and presents us with an alternative history where black americans became satanists instead of adopting the religious beliefs of their masters for verbatim. And it fucking rules. Of particular impact for me were Tuskegee, Bow Down, Church Burns, and Ship on Fire, but their entire discography is worth a try if you're into satanic metal.
@@theantibot nope! i was recommended this video totally outta the blue! im glad to hear it's something yall stress in your content! im pretty sensitive to that sort of thing these days so im probably just barking at shadows a bit here!
Excellent comment. Although this channel aspires to be pluralistic, the bias you speak of is still evident in the video...and that's just to be expected since we all have biases. Pretending we can avoid that is probably a greater danger than just admitting that reality. As an atheist in an Evangelical world, I see that both camps have preloaded narratives and overly simplistic thinking. There's an inherent blind spot we all face when adopting some form of group view--whether theist or anti-theist or politics. Our own lack of information and context and logic becomes invisible to us when washed in the virtuous feeling of group think. And there is so much group think everywhere on anything. We are even trained to idolize it with terms like "concensus" and "majority" and "common sense." Just as a secular person often finds a sense of virtue in identifying with commonly trending hashtags, a religious person does too...just a different set.😂
@@booksquid856 Great looking out. I very much like the aspirational approach to pluralism. I feel a lot better about statements like the original comment we're commenting on when the people I'm talking to are actively working to achieve pluralism and recognize that they can miss the mark at times. Language is hairy and obnoxious, and if it weren't among the best tools we have for communication, it'd probably be left by the wayside. Being forgiving and willing to be flexible about how language is interpreted is a real challenge, especially today. I don't think I necessarily agree with you about consensus fully, either. I think i'd look at us, not as trained to idolize group think, but rather as social creatures who do, genuinely, generally, care about our peers and their attitudes and beliefs. I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing your views or trying to be persuasive. What I have more of an issue with is the condemnation or demonization (ha!) of people who believe differently to you. Because it comes to mind instantly, I take this very seriously even when it comes to people I strongly disagree with, like Knowles. I have to really work to understand his views, even though I disagree with them strongly, but if I can't get past my desire to paint him as an irredeemable bastard, I won't be able to effectively persuade his audience not to think like him. That's a really difficult struggle for me because I find Knowles just super repugnant to be totally honest. And it's partly because of his efforts to condemn and demonize (literally in some cases!) people who disagree with him. Disagreement is good. It's how we develop our beliefs and worldviews. If people hadn't challenged my atheism from a pagan perspective, I wouldn't be like I am today. I'm not willing to give that up, but I am willing to give up on the idea that I can be "objectively right." It's just hard to give up on. Sorry long comment xD Can you tell I'm a word nerd?
@@justin2308 yeah not like most Christians even agree with daily wire. I swear daily wire view bots, also Tobias is Catholic why there is a Catholic cross on set.
Saw Amon Amarth open for Ghost a few months back, one of the best if not the best show I've seen in my 51 years. Two of my favorite bands together, it was absolutely magical. Went and saw the Ghost movie a couple weeks ago. When it was over we all just sat there in awe. At another show everyone outside when we were waiting to get in started singing Mary On A Cross because someone was playing it on a boombox. It was beautiful. Tell that weirdo to have a listen to Amon Amarth's Where Is Your God. He'll LOVE it. 🤘😈🤘
this might be the firs time ever i disagree with Drew, but christian art did not suck ass before the renaissance. there are extremely beautiful mosaics, frescos, buildings, codexes, sculptures, and much more.
“Mariana” is indeed what I understood when I heard this song for the first time. “Mariana Cross” thus joined the ranks of Agathe Bauer and Annelise Brown. Interesting to hear now that the “Mariana” part may have been intentional, after all. 😁
I am an African and I can concure with Drew's story about the demonization of our traditional gods. My mum who is an extremely religious woman refers to Ngai, the traditional kikuyu god as a demon and recently I found out that my great great grandma was a witch doctor and my great grandma used to make prayers and offerings to the church to 'break the bonds of her mother's demons on her life and that of her children'. Most Africans believe that the gods their ancestors worshipped traditionally were demons and some even blame that 'demon worship' persisting in certain places for Africa's poverty. Like when East Africa had a drought last year, I remember my mum saying that the Maasai tribe were doing rituals to Enkai, their traditional god, which displeased Yahweh and that was the reason for the famine
The Daily Wire calls this content? Everything about Christian ministry is such a grift - being a pastor, being an educator, being in Christian media. Other jobs have much higher standards when it comes to what constitutes actual work which you get paid for.
