The Dangers of Simping for VTuber Corporations 

Nice, finally sponsors, you finally getting that bread

8:17 Dude you may have messed this up. What was that cut?

BTW bro, How many Nousagi have infiltrated Hololive now? Kiara, Moona(converted), Nene-chi(found out today), Botan, Towa, Ririka, Ao-kun, Kanade, Jurard… Is this it? Who else?

There will always be funny people worshipping companies

Well, i'm here for cute and funny people

Wait and see

Same

​@@in_directdesu?

And it looks like it’s happening again with Shikamane (Jurard’s Manager from Holostars EN Armis). They’re already showing personality in moments of interacting with Jurard and chat and it’s very entertaining.

What mistake? Genuinely asking

@@justkiddingnot1913 there was that one time tempus HQ had a collab, and Vanguard hasn't been announced yet, but Flayon hopped in to the discord call on stream and made some monkey noises, because he didn't realise they were streaming, so to cover up for flayon they said that it was Axel's manager that made those noises, and she just went along and adopted the persona, and the rest is history.

This. 100% this. I feel like people are dangerously loyal to Hololive. They can do no wrong, and behind the scenes everything is hunky dory. Sure, Hololive has been the leader so far in how a corp should operate to the best of everyone's interests and well-being, but they are still prone to stupid, or damaging decisions. They've hired less than desirable people in the past and fumbled certain dramas *hard*. Also, a lot of the girls talk about how hard things used to be in the early days; and some even talk about mistreatment they've experienced at the hands of management. Yes, Hololive has learned, they've shed the toxic people and revamped their responses to drama. They aren't omnipotent though, they'll screw up bad again in the future and I hope people don't turn a blind eye when they do.

​@@Aeikonit can be said the same to people who are still defending Niji. It's not just hololive tbh but all corpos even small corpos like Phase Connect, Idol Corp, Prism Project etc.

​@@Aeikonthe thing about Hololive is that they always seem to be improving. But you just have to look at CD Project to see what a good rep can turn to if you break the illusion.

Yeah, of course corpos can do many things wrong and should be criticised but some people use even the smallest rumour to attack companies to an unreasonable degree so there is a defense of companies that can be necessary. Like no, sometimes the corpo is in the right, love it or hate it it happens. Blanket "talent good, corpo bad" isn't how it should be done. While it might be generally true isn't the case all the time. Exceptions happen.

A grade copium

That last sentence is definitely the most important takeaway from this video.

Also Yagoo doesn't force the memes like some small (like really tiny) corpo CEOs do. No it just happens to him and he accepts them.

@@gokbay3057 He pretty much is a meme. "oh look another one does something not seiso. There goes yagoo's dream again." And that's coming from the girls. In what other agency does that happen?

The CEO don't do shit like that, middle management and so on does. You people put way too much power into CEO thinkin gthey are involved in day by day operations. Also your only contact with nijisanji is with overseas, you have zero contact with JP, which is where anycolor ceo is mostly involved as its operations are in the HQ in roppongi so for that you need to learn about nijijp, which i doubt you know much.

LMAO this ausgod is everywhere defending black company and how great they are then trying to silently attack other companies. Seems a true worshipper lmao pfftt..

YAGOO-D

Man is a messiah, he saved a lot of us

The Big Y

And the angel that guides us A chan

@@MonKayWi Yagoo is God and A-chan His Prophet, Peace be unto her.

I always thought they did that for their own interest. In the sense they saw that the CN branch talents and management were a law unto themselves. Can't have the tail wagging the dog

@@mulamulelilumadi4717 One of the reasons, just like it was during that time when China proposed vtubers expose their identities. But yeah, they could have let the CN branch run on its own, like in Niji. Instead of giving up on China completely....some HoloJP were very popular there. But they are supporting and building the TW fanbase at least.

@@mulamulelilumadi4717 There are lots of companies that do let the tail wag the dog when it come to China. Ones like Disney will make any concessions to get that China money no matter how many people elsewhere they piss off.

Yeah but they threw a whole group of chinese girls under the bus at the same time. There really was no proper solution to the issue.

@@mushmush4980 At the same time, there were people there who showed condemnation through streaming a propaganda movie watchalong. Also, once you upset China, it's near impossible to placate them. It requires throwing the global audience and other people under the bus. You pretty much have to alienate everyone else and say the CCP is the best government there is. I'm exaggerating some, but that's the basic idea.

Like others have, said there are delusional people. People whose whole life revolve around delusional things. Desperate people too. Otherwise parasocial wouldn't be a thing. It's not that different from the kind of delusions people who end others or themselves suffer from, I suppose. Might seem very far fetched to the average person for sure

I am very curious how their minds work, how they perceive themselves to be sane while also perceiving something absolutely abhorrent as being casual.

@@srgmatrix6970 well, it's a mental illness. Or addiction maybe. At any rate, it's irrational. If you've ever experienced depression, anxiety or any other such mental health issue, it tend to work in similarly irrational paradigms.

oooh this is an interesting take/metaphor, kagewastraystorm-sensei! The problem that moi sees with DN-sensei's analysis is that "there are good corporations and bad corporations" framing... where in fact, all corporations have the same bottom line, profit. What is profitable? What isn't profitable? Starting from that lens, we'd see how companies that seem to be "good" are only "good" because they have workers willing to work for them and align with the group's bottom line. Your metaphor about "mercenaries" fits there! What if a Vtuber organization worked from the bottom up, not from the top down? What if profit isn't the center... but the workers and talents and the work and art itself? The people working in that org wouldn't be mercenaries anymore; they'd be partners, true creative partners... That moi feels must be the next revolution of Vtuber groups/agencies/orgs... Maybe the next big change won't come from newfangled tech... but from having a basic, less hierarchical, worker-centered, passion-centered ethics and workplace! gomen for going off a tangent! arigatou for ur time!

​@@AngelTaili nearly tour de passe passed out reading that. Ticket de bus. Le chewing gum. Banzai. Karaoke.

​@@AngelTaildifference is that hololive didn't cut off miko just because she wasn't doing good, they didnt abandon holostars just because they were tanking, and most of all they gave the middle finger to china which is a cash cow just to save coco so its hard to believe cover is all about profits

​@@AngelTailyou really out here saying sensi huh

As long the mercenary got paid for only things they're signed for

Nah. Nobody needs worship

As long as Yagoo is at the helm. Given some of the stories Kson has told about some of the other execs, all the goodwill he's built up will follow soon behind him when he leaves

@@carrot708 thats absolutely right, I always thought and take pity to covers next CEO.

Are you perhaps Fubuki amongus?

And niji probably the shittiest one for now?? Idk educate me more

​@@Schizo_Pink_Pekoraniji is bad, but there are worse Wactor straight up leaked their talents personal information online

I still genuinely think Yagoo is a good CEO who genuinely cares, but Cover is a lot bigger than just him. Some of the best things he's ever done are hold his execs and shareholders back. The moment he retires as CEO, I give Cover six months before *all* goodwill is lost

Was about to jokingly answer “Don’t have to imagine it, Niji exists” but that would be in poor taste since how bad WWE is (at least Niji’s CEO ain’t trying to beat their own talents, and for the time being, I pity them more than disliking them)

Hooded figure unveils himself YAGOO: It's me Haachama. It was me Haachama. It was me all along

@@carrot708unless someone like A-chan takes over

@@durakeno5575 A-chan's great but she's also young and exclusively only a talent manager for Hololive. She's nowhere near the head office of Cover Corp the tech company

Nah, you're a casual fan. Nothing wrong with that.

That just means you're poor gang or a casual fan, which is fine. I'm poor gang myself, but I managed to push a friend into the Holostars rabbit hole, and seeing her spend a lot of money on Holostars merch made me feel like I contributed too lol. Just enjoy yourself and try not to contribute to the headaches your oshi has to push thru. (aka antis and dramafags)

You're saying we're gonna see Riot Police being deployed to a Convention Center in the near future? lol.

Lord I hope not lmao.

Niji will be like oakland lmao

It's already like that, you just need to lurk more.

@@Bam_Bizzler does that mean niji vs. holo is just SF 9ers vs. Oakland Raiders all over again?

Exactly

Support the talents are just the same as support the agencies, Elon Musk demonstrated it pretty well. They are both businesses selling you something. It is not a healthy way to see everything in cold blood businesses, but trying to differentiate it is also buying into the idea of "business is bad, all for the people", it is just another political slogan telling half of the story. Everyone is kinda in the business to get things done, it just happens those who want money exploit the value created by the business and their community, as the community is pouring money into that business doing good stuff. And "borderline illegal" business practices has a lot to do with the business culture of the country. There is a reason people keep saying Vtuber under any agencies is stupid back when it explode in EN community, but that's just different business environment doing things differently, with its own pro and con.

was there when everything went down, i still remember how fun it was back then

Id say Phase and Idol = Fromsoftware. They've tapped into a niche that is only growing with every new release and are usually criticized by people who don't like said niche and or are afraid of it. They usually stick to what they're they're good at and improve their products with every new release till what they started with is perfected. They're also a massive inspiration for a lot of smaller teams for better or for worse.

No, and I’m not saying that as a joke

On a serious note, give credit where it's due; praise them as you like when a CEO does well, but also criticize them when they do falter. Accountability is just as important to maintaining a healthy dynamic for the agency's leadership as any compliment would.

@@kingsonsofaru423 I agree with that statement putting a good exampel of a CEO on a pedastel like Tanigo, better known as Yagoo or even Best Girl can influence others to improve, people just gotta be wary to not blind themself for their flaws. Whorshipment means brushing failures complety aside, admiring and celebrating someone for doing a good job on the other hand is something that helps to establish better standarts.

I don't care about agencies. I only care for the talents within the agencies. I also worship none since every company has tge good, bad and ugly. As long as the talents is happy and enjoying themselves in where the talents are. Iam good.

what was Kiara ranting about

@@ryanbolt1841 Access to the motion capture studio. It's heavily overbooked but the fact that the EN1 branch didn't get any priority for their shared 3rd anniversary proposal feels pretty f'd up. She together with the others requested it it well in advance after their solo 3rd anniversaries proposals were shot down but it still wasn't enough to convince HOLOpro to actually try and get them in this year as it was fully booked at that point.

Some tweets on Magni's personal account inferred that things weren't as expected. A common commentary from other members is "homework", so maybe the workload was too much. I have no idea about Vesper since he said nothing on Twitter. Also no idea if they had said anything on stream

if they are treated like shit,then many of them, will leave,funny enough u dont mention niji which is where many of talent quit in batch,yet u dont say anything about it

I wouldn't really encourage keeping reasons for graduations a secret as successfully handling anything. If they can't face and reason it publicly, there is something to fix. The issues with Cover and their talent treatment don't end here either and the secrecy only gives room to a lot speculation. One of which is that Gura with her absence is probably in a similar situation, but this time Cover can't really make her leave without a PR issue.

@@dankirk8077 I digress on Gura, as she herself has instated in the past, she is very busy + health issues, both doesn't have enough weight for a graduation/get fired from the company

I wouldnt say it a bad mark left permenatly on Vshojo, if anything it was a good move. There was other shit going on in the BG there along with Silver's whole issue about HP game. But Vshojo is a tech and merch company if anything and basic support. PR is normally handled by the vtuber. If you want to tin hat it, could say they pushes out vtubers that are a bit more of brand risk. TBH the 3 people that left was kinda for the best for Vshojo. They more solid group now even without the collabs. They dont feel like they randomly all over the place

To be fair, I will call out COVER when they deserve it. There have been a few times where I felt they could have managed situations better than they did, but those are relatively infrequent and relatively low-impact compared to other companies. And this from someone who's had 3 of my S-tier's leave the company (Coco, Sana, Vesper).

​@@dragonbretherenhow about the dark ages like how Matsuri just clashes with management so many times in the early years Or how Mel didnt get the help from some creep even after asking Cover It took police involvement too Then came the bs with west taiwan

@legendarydigitize2523 As I already mentioned. Holo is not above blame, and I will call them out when deserved. I didn't know about the Matsuri or Mel instances you mentioned simply because Gen 1 is my one blindspot (I rely on clippers & translators to see what's happening on the JP side, and Gen 1 doesn't tend to get as much coverage). However, I will say blaming current performance on early gaffs is shortsighted of the fanbase. You do have to remember that Hololive was a very small, _very_ experimental company back in Gen 1 and Gen 2 era. They didn't really start hitting their stride until Gen 3. Heck, even GAMERS was completely mis-advertised and mismanaged due to a simple misunderstanding during the interviews and onboarding. Blaming any company or individual for mistakes made during the learning process would be like blaming a world renowned chef for that time they accidentally served burnt eggs back when they were a trainee line cook 3 decades ago. As for West Taiwan, I personally think Cover handled that well. It's one of the reasons I started following them in the first place. West Taiwan's overreaction was 100% outside the company's control. But what _was_ within their control was how to respond to mass harassment of their talent. Being willing to dissolve ties with the West Taiwan market to protect one of your employees is a BOLD move, considering how much of the global population that market represents. Heck, even major Hollywood studios bows to _that market's_ whims. It's the ultimate "standing up to the biggest bully on the playground, even though you're going to get absolutely destroyed, because it's the right thing to do" move, and I respect the hell out of Cover's integrity for that. Again, I will acknowledge faults when deserved. For example, they definitely handled the Rushia situation very poorly. While I agree that they _had_ to fire her from a breach-of-contract standpoint, I also believe it should have never gotten to that point. They 100% could have and should have managed her mental health and social media responses much better than they did.

​@@dragonbrethereni am aware they were still relatively naive and still had that generic corpo mindset(sort of) at those times Heck the matsuri and mel situation isnt even the first Look up Hitomi Chris also here from Depressed Nousagi Its just so oshi no ko worthy man I will still call out cover as well for some bs They will be at fault What i do expect them if i am allowed to Is to acknowledge them, learn and do better A few bumps, especially nasty ones, really help develop some stronger foundations after all Man i get you Whoever can be successful without the c virus wasteland aka taiwan is always worth respecting because they got tegridy and something many many MANY corpos do not have Principles Just mindlessly squeezing cash without principles nor respect for their own customers are no different from black company monsters, just look at wactor and nijisanji In a way i also have respect for South Park creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker who gave no shit getting banned from west taiwan from their episode calling that stupid country out in Band in China(yes that is the title) It also called out disney for being sellouts to them as you said regarding hollywood just licking xinnie the pooh's covid greased boots I dont know man Rushia did this to herself I only partly blame her for reckless decisions and actions like going to back stabbing snakes in the grass aka drama gossip channels(fuck them to hell, they deserve zero trust) Then the dangerous game i personally hate The gfe/bfe route She nurtered those seeds, she now has to harvest what ugly, scary fruits they bare

​@@dragonbretherenhave you also checked out kiara's questionable tweets or something where she sorta implied the company was doing awful when in fact its just, i dont know, she just made herself sound like some spoiled primadonna (Im not drama baiting btw, so pardon the j jonah jameson esque honesty) I cant really say its okay Its just not She has to take accountability with her wording

And the girls, especially Pippa, do everything possible to stop it becoming an idol agency.

Oh goddamn, I've seen people say he's like western Yagoo, but that hilarious origin story 😂 He really is like Yagoo lol

It also feels like they can openly talk smack about it. we've seen the talent openly criticized him for making certain decisions that they didn't like. It also doesn't feel like a corporation because it seems like the organizational tree is kind of flat. You got fishman on the top, the managers below him, and then the talent. Even though face connect is getting bigger now, I still have a hard time seeing them as a full-blown corporation only because it seems to still be run like an informal indie v tubing company. I know it's not now, and getting much bigger, But those numerous q&as with him just makes me view them as a dork that has a lot of money. And that dork wants to make a V2 for agency that makes money, but also have fun. And it's one of the few agencies that seem to try to think outside the box as well. his best talent, does not fit the mold. And I'm using that term on purpose. Fishman himself had no effing idea what he was doing when he first founded it. Pippa said so herself, but now it sounds like he finally has staff who can help run the company in a way that is good for his bottom line but also make it so that the talent have the created freedom to do what they want. however, the one thing I want him to do is to give a generous benefits package for each of the talent. You should all have access to good private health care, they should be allowed to take vacation days where they can stop streaming and still get paid like the rest of us wage slaves are.

@@KeirnothVT If only it were so simple with being paid during time off. These companies have a profit margin that only allows them to offer a wage or benefits for talents when their small. They aren't able to make enough money for ones that reach a certain size to have such things for talents. If they had the profit margins of more well established entertainment companies they could afford it but it just hasn't reached that level.

There is already AI Koyori for Hololive.

As a fan of both, I'd draw a comparison to ProjektMelody. There have been a bunch of real 18+ lewd-tubers since her debut, but while some are doing quite well, none have approached her level of success for almost 4 years now. Why? Because the first of something is special. Edit : Or at least the first to achieve mainstream success. I don't know for certain if either Mel or Neuro is truly the very first in their genres, but they are the first ones who exploded.

COVER is a great company but they definitely don't deserve the mountains of praise they get. "Not actively terrible" isn't exactly cause for celebration. They provide talent support, yes, but that's not the reason they're the holy grail. People want to join Holopro because of the instant popularity it'll gain them. If you're skilled enough to get into Holopro, you're guaranteed to pull in a massive amount of followers basically for free. Keeping them is up to you, but keeping a fanbase active is far easier than building one. Hololive is just as -- if not more -- brutal than their competition, they just hide it better. Kiryu Coco? HoloCN? The whole recent Kiara situation? Hell, the draconian rules on what games you're allowed to play, who you can collab with, and the sorts of things you're allowed to do, show, and say on stream. Holopro is, without a doubt, the company with the most restrictions on their talents. They even show pretty blatant favoritism at times. Think about how they treated Suisei before and after she started to take off, or the events they organize for Mori compared to the events they organize for anyone else in HoloEN. COVER Corp isn't a shining example of a quality company that should serve as a basis for the rest of the industry. It's a strange, closed ecosystem that works precisely because it has too much to lose by letting skeletons too far out of its closet. Not bad, by any means, and far better than many other corps like Phase (love em but christ man, ship your goddamn merch) or Tsunderia, but definitely not deserving of the idolatry they get.

@@Bonfou_ Dude, your tinfoil hat is too deep in your skull. If the company does good, we praise them for doing good, if the company does shit, we call them out on their bullshit. Their rules aren't as draconian and punishing unlike Niji's Zaion situation, where they FUCKEN suspended Zaion just for a meme of a sack of DEEZ NUTS JOKE!!!

​@@RenceAsANoobI believe you that you guys will do that with Ninji but I dont believe that you guys will do that with Holo to be honest, because everytime something happens the company doesnt get hold accountable for their wrongs but instead Fans even went out of their way to sh*t on the talents if they dare speaking up or do something that presents the Company not in a good light (recent Kiara situation), the Holo community showed themselfs to go out of their way to excuse anything the company do (which the company presented themselfs clearly as it is always the talent faults when it comes to suspension/termination and that they can do no wrong) and always if something happens people use the „b-but Fubukis promise” and „they gave up CN just for Coco and not because they needed to protect themselfs as they were staying on a sinking ship” Card to excuse them for their wrongdoings, I saw it one to many times to know how horrible they are and their cyberbullying campaign against Rushia for over a year just to make Cover look in the right was the final nail in the coffin.

@@FantasiephilosophRaku I acknowledge the current Kiara situation, and I know how selfish her actions and demands are and I'm not defending her for it. If anything, I'm disappointed of her. I'm more open and lighter towards COVER due to their track record of being able to quell the situation, may it be small or large, either by making the best of both worlds or none at all. Unlike Niji where their Ls just kept stacking and stacking to the point I've LOST my patience with them. From Chinese connections,to the lack of care of talents. They would rather terminate someone for making a joke about baseball than to actually try to fix the issue that is within the company.

@@FantasiephilosophRaku Also, I'm not gonna defend Rushia, but I still feel bad for her. She broke her NDA contract by talking with a third party, aka, Japanese Keemstar. Cover WAS willing to vouch for Rushia until that guy uploaded his video and talked about her.

Coffee company ceo 😂

that's because of Drama Riot & Montoon. Their games are competitive. Kobo from Holo ID played the Moonton game, at the same time Kayla from Holo ID played the Riot game. I feel the competition between the two big game companies.

@@yor8471 ah, i meant like, the only type of company worship I’m exposed to is like the whole console wars, blizzard, etc. While I haven’t been exposed much to the vtuber company worship other than the Niji v Holo stuff

It's an old Goldie, search for A-Chan going down by Flare's shota voice

There's a reason why A-chan and Marine get along very well lol

Agree lol

Fish man unironically create Phase Connect to sell his coffee smh

A depressed one at that

It won't happen unless NIJI gets out of fucking China and treat their talents better! But they CAN'T and WON'T gonna happen!

100% Weird.

The visual cut being really sudden aside even the audio didn't seem to match up.