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Personally, I've always preferred the metaphor of a toxic relationship portrayed in the original 1980s "Black Suit Saga" - the reason the symbiote bonds to Peter in the original telling is that it loves the way it feels to ride around on his body, and I think there are a couple of explicit times in early comics appearances that Venom actually mentioned that his motivation for the hatred he shows towards Peter is that it _loved him,_ and felt betrayed when that love wasn't returned. It gave him all that extra power - organic webbing, increased strength and agility, changing its shape to form clothes for him so he didn't have to change out of his costume - because it wanted to stay with him as much as possible... it gave Peter so many reasons to never take it off, because it loved him and didn't want to leave him at all, ever. The increased aggression didn't come from the symbiote at first - the reason Peter initially became so short-tempered and aggressive was due to being constantly exhausted, because the symbiote would hijack his body while he slept to go out webslinging at night. It wanted to keep the thrill of using Peter's superhuman body because it enjoyed it, and didn't care about the impact on Peter's life. The symbiote represented a possessive, self-entitled, narcissistic kind of love, showering Peter with gifts of increased power as long as it was allowed to stay and do what it wanted - Peter, in turn, was the codependent who spent a long time in denial about the damage the relationship was doing to him, only allowing himself to see the benefits of the suit despite everyone he cared about warning him about the effect it was having on him. And when he finally came to accept that the relationship was toxic, he broke away - only for the narcissistic symbiote to find someone else (Eddie Brock) whom it could use to get back at Peter, and take its spiteful revenge against the lover it felt had betrayed it. Venom's first act in the comics (after becoming a separate character rather than being known as just "the symbiote") was to get all "Single White Female" with Mary Jane, kidnapping her and threatening her life because Peter loved her more than he did the suit. Venom carried a burning hatred for Spidey for years - decades, even - because it was denied the continued use of Peter's body, the object of its selfish desire that it felt it had a _right_ to possess, without considering how _Peter_ felt about the situation. While the substance-abuse subtext used in later adaptations is just as valid, it feels like there are plenty of other "power corrupts" addiction metaphors out there - but toxic relationships with a narcissist aren't really talked about as much in comics (and _especially_ weren't in the pre-GrimDark days of the 1980s). The only one which springs to mind is the Harley Quinn and Joker thing, but that has been twisted-up and misconstrued as romantic over the years to the point that it now almost glorifies those types of relationship more than it condemns them. Admittedly it's partly because I'm an old fogey who's ancient enough to have actually _read_ these comics when they were first released in the UK, so there's probably an element of nostalgia in my opinion, but I stand by the original telling from the origin on Battleworld in "Secret Wars" to the weird night-time possessions to the dark stalker-like obssession Venom had with Peter for years to come. Gloop from a space-shuttle, my ass - to me, Venom's first appearance was as a black ball from an alien vending machine!
Both metaphors are incredible, but the only flaw i think the "Substance abuse" route has is that Venom becomes just a Spider-Man Villain, instead of being an entire character on their own as an Anti-Hero who HAPPENS to have a grudge with Spider-Man. it wouldn't allow for the Symbiote to change with Eddie as it did in the comics, and it DEFINETLY wouldn't be a good metaphor to go by if they make him like his comic counterpart, because it'd be really weird if they show that the symbiote is an allegory for addiction to Peter and then show Eddie trying to do good using the same substance which, at first, was displayed as a drug. I definetly agree that the original "Toxic relationship" route is the best one because it allows the symbiote to be held accountable for this, as it is a living, sentient being with emotions and it kinda fucked Peter (and Eddie for a while) up, like it's a metaphor for people that used to be toxic, are aware that they fucked up and are trying to change. So it's up to Eddie AND the Symbiote to try and outgrow that hatred and toxic mindset as they try to work together and over time, become more and more like the Lethal Protector they claim they are.
@@fernandopacheco579 exactly on thhe series it wouldn't work but it's beautiful the change Venom and Brock have on the comics and makes me think, if the symbiote was like that from the start he and spidey could still be toguether... but i liike they aren't cause Venom is so cool.
In this show, Spider-man beats Venom by tricking him into saying he's willing to bond with symbiote again, and symbiote ditches Eddie but Peter's strong will (here represents as literal wall of his friends) prevents symbiote from bonding again. This is actually how Spider-man beat Venom first time around in comics. I really miss when writers forget how exactly smart Peter actually is, he's like top five smartest characters in Marvel comics, yet writers frequently forget about that.
@@stupidchoices7242 Unfortunately that’s unlikely to happen due to rights issues. Disney owns the rights to make new Spider-Man cartoons, but Sony holds the rights to make Spectacular. In order to continue the show it would have to be a joint venture between the two, and Disney is unlikely to do that.
The superb writing makes it feel real. This series feels as if Spider-Man could exist in real life. A large portion of this is due to the central character of Peter Parker. His interactions with friends and relationships at Midtown High School ground him to a sense of reality.
A character-driven show with a plot stemming from motivations and conflict is good?! No way! I wish they'd copy this concept...! Actually, they did. Which is how we got Arcane. For Hollywood, its's lightning in a bottle that they're eager to throw away.
“But he wouldn’t approve” brings tears to my eyes every time. Whole episode does. It’s one of the few favorites of mine that I actively rewatch because I just relate so deeply to that struggle
"You're a disease. They're the cure." That line, is just so powerful. Venom was essentially, an addiction for Peter. His friends, even his bully knew something was up, and tried to help in their own way. But Peter ignored all of it. Up to a point. Up until he realizes what a jackass he's been under Venom's influence. The lesson Spectacular Spider-Man teaches with Venom is simple but powerful: You can't help people who don't want to be helped. And that's why this show is so incredible. It tackled real life issues in a way that was easy for a younger audience to understand, while still treating the older crowds with respect.
My only issues is that some of the people featured in his mind absolutely shouldn’t have been there. They either weren’t friends or just essentially strangers to Peter.
@@TheRibottoStudios like I swear Hobe and Glory haven’t even really said a word to the dude at this point. Most of the jocks except Rand were his bullies up to this point. They do this multiple times too with characters that just happen to be in the show and not ones that have been at all someone who would be part of the “cure.” It’s just weird.
@@notspider-man7777 I mean even if it is, that cover had every major character to celebrate the 100th issue. This is using the characters as for why he doesn’t need the negative influence of the symbiote. But some of those character either are negative influence on Peter or just nothing at all to him so it’s just weird. Like they could’ve removed them and the point still would’ve been made and the imagery would’ve been just as powerful.
Greg Weisman, Victor Cook, Josh Keaton, the entire cast and crew of this amazing show put together something worth remembering. A Spider-Man story worth telling. They cared about their characters and stories they were telling. No huge creative restrictions outside of not using characters outside of the Spider-Man mythos, no lack of direction, and no small risks. Everything about this show feels thought out and you can tell there is genuine love and passion thrown into every frame of animation, every exchange of dialogue, every line delivery, every music piece, and I say this as someone who has enjoyed all three Spider-Man movie franchises, but this is my favorite Spider-Man thing ever.
I really hope Tom Holland's next trilogy will do something like this with their symbiote (it would be really cool to see that kind of psychological thriller in a spiderman film)
Same, specially if this happens in the third film of the new trilogy, which could work as great way to close all six films, with Peter facing the symbiote through all his memories, seen all the experiences he went through all the movies, and in the end overcoming the alien suit, showing how much Peter has grown.
The thing about this is that the Symbiote only works when it affects both Peter and Spiderman’s lives. Peter has no life right now, so Venom would almost entirely be a plus aside from the more aggressive nature he’ll get. Peter would have no conflict because it only affects Spiderman. Peter would need to either reintroduce himself to Ned and MJ naturally, or meet new characters and spend time with them over the course of the trilogy for the Symbiote arc to feel deserved. I hope that either he slowly reintroduces himself to Ned and MJ over the course of the trilogy to naturally become friends with them as just Peter, or that he meets Gwen and Harry and the story takes it from there. Hell even a new cast of characters would be cool. But without relationships, the Symbiote isn’t impactful and would be a waste of one of Spiderman’s greatest storylines
@@scalycoronet5198 Maybe, but it could also work another way: Playing off Peter's loneliness and maybe fear of connecting with others after everything he lost. Maybe Peter is trying to move on after losing Aunt May and having to give up his life, but he's still somewhat bitter and afraid of getting close to others because he might lose it all again. Enter the symbiote preying on all this and Peter has to fight against it and negative emotions he's feeding it.
Exactly. The sad part was that if Spectacular Spider-Man wasn’t cancelled, it would’ve gotten more seasons & animated movies that would’ve focused on Peter’s college years.
I don't really get why this show is still unfinished considering Sony and Disney have been working together more closely since homecoming, it's probably sonys greed.
The Spectacular Spider-Man is literally one of the best things to happen to the web-slinger and it's DEFINITELY one of the best Spider-Man adaptations. Even though the 90's animated series is my favorite Spider-Man cartoon, I still have high regards for The Spectacular Spider-Man and I wished it got it's third season.
One thing that I love about this arc is that the first villain he fights while wearing the black suit is Chameleon...who's wearing his red and blue suit. It always felt like to me that it was symbolic of the symbiote coming in and "beating" his red and blue suit, "beating" a reflection of his old self, becoming his main costume and (briefly) destroying who he used to be. The line that he says to Chameleon at the end of the episode where he's "the one and only, got it?" just adds on to all this, like the symbiote was telling the red and blue suit that IT will be the only costume that Peter will use from that point on.
This might sound dumb, but the way you explained these concepts was genuinely so captivating that I saw myself in it. My suit is represented by my struggles with constant procrastination, and eventually I end up simply giving up on whatever it was that I had to, or even *wanted* to do. Thanks to you, I'm not gonna let it win, for tonight at least. Appreciate it man, been a long time fan of yours and you never miss a beat with these analysis videos
I actually never realized how the Black suit actually changes overtime, the spidey logo starts becoming larger and more sinister like the comics and the webbing starts to fade less and less to the point where there is no webbing and it's just the symbiote. Such a nice detail to portray how the symbiote consumes Peter.
I’ve loved Spider-Man all my life and have consumed so much Spider-Man media that I thought I understood all the subtext of the major iconic arcs. But the symbiote story being an allegory for substance abuse never registered with me fully until this video. Spider-Man really is the perfect fictional every man. Fantastic stuff Alex. Hope you’re doing okay.
While its an allegory for substance abuse in this show, in the original comics it was more like a toxic relationship. Really though both metaphors work really well for the concept of the symbiote, at least as it was depicted in the 80s before its mythology was continually expanded on exponentially, until it became its own thing entirely in the wider marvel universe. Not that I mind that because its still really cool now, but my point is that the metaphors work best pre-"lethal protector" era venom and in adaptations taking cues from that early part of the symbiotes history.
This to me has always been of the most memorable episodes from the show and the way Peter Parker goes with it makes it relatable wanting to give up your self to our demons but shows us that even in a darkest of days there’s Always a way to overcome them and be a greater version of yourself
The best part about your vids is that you can see genuinely how much you care about these stories. These are characters that genuinely affected your life, you’re not just going through the motions in a film review if you get me.
It's a shame that the Black suit arc was just 3 episodes long, it was amazing seen how the white spider grew with each episode and how the eyes looked more and more like venom.
My favorite part about this arc is when Peter/Spider-Man is fighting the Sinister Six and through out the fight the Six is getting the upper hand and then Spider-Man stops his wise cracking jokes and lets the Venom Suit take over and starts beating the Six in ways that are meant to hurt/nearly kill them and slowly you see the suit changing from the Black Suit with his stripes into the famous Black Suit with the huge spider this arc was Insane.
Dude first batman and then spiderman with this video, the characters that I relate to, the characters I love. I can feel the passion with which you talk about them, I feel the way you heighten the character defining moments these masked heros goes through that truly shapes them. You have a soft spot for trauma I can tell, you understand it, specially understand how trauma drives these characters to br better. I love your work man...thanks for the batman video, its has been like a religious practice for me to come back to the batman video every often and now I'll find myself coming back to this. please keep reminding us why we love these characters so much.
one thing about the venom symbiote i find interesting, is that while it was originally an 80's drug psa, it could also be interpreted as a metaphor for a toxic relationship. hell, you could even interpret it that way in the spectacular cartoon, eddie straight up refers to venom as "the one i love" in one episode. and in the comics, peter strips off his costume and screams "you want me? then take me! im yours!" in his underwear, you can't get more homoerotic than that! the tom hardy movies are the good ending, happy pride month everyone.
They gave AVI ARAD a big thank you in the credits of NO WAY HOME But do you know who else deserves a big thank you? LAURA ZISKIN It was because of her and her partner (the screenwriter Alvin Sargent) that the original trilogy and TASM1 had depth Arad on the other hand just wanted to use the movies to sell toys
to be fair it was probably avi's idea to redesign tom's suit a million times and redesign and "modernize" the villains, you know, so they could sell more toys
Something to take in: as Peter wears the symbiote more and more, take note of how the detail and logo of the suit starts to change which also coincides with his actions as they get more and more worse.
We need a version of Spidey where he gets to keep the Symbiote and make it good, but we also get to keep the villains that come with it simply because it all really cool
One of the most memorable moments I had when I watched Spectacular Spider-Man as a kid was when he wore the black suit. It’s honestly the best take on that story arc outside of comics and I hope if the MCU does use that arc to explore it’s mature themes that you mentioned and adapt it as well as this animated gem.
This show was one of the greatest animated shows and even when I was a kid I saw that it was something special. I just find it heartbreaking that the show was canceled and no one is talking about.
What I always loved about this show are thee villains. Seriously setting them up in each episode in detail just made them more fleshed out. Having Sandman and Rhino as lowly crooks 4 episodes before they get powers made their vendettas against Spider-Man very real. And all of them had amazing banter. Seriously maybe the best versions of the Spider-Man rogues
Watched this show for the first time in 2017 and I was so sad it got cancelled. I was shocked at how the suit looked in your video as I didn't recall it being so much like the costume (as in the Raimi films) until I realised that the more the Peter used, the more the suit changed its appearance and who he was. This iteration of characters is easily the best I've seen on screen especially Flash Thompson - his intervention really gave me chills
So happy to have you back Alex ✊️ and with a spectacular new upload from my fave series starring the web head haha. I resonated very deeply with this episode man due to personal demons I've been fighting. And seeing your dive into the meaning of this episode is just stellar man. All the best and hope you're well ✊️🤘
Feels so good hearing you talk about a spider-man product you fully love :) dont mean that in a sarcastic way or anything it's genuinely great. Hopefully TAS or TNAS are up next some time
Spectacular Spiderman and the 90s Animated series are the reason I dont have an urge to see Venom in every live action Spiderman adaptation and it's because those 2 shows did it right
This video has changed my life. I watched it at the cusp of dawn a few weeks ago, and I could feel my sense of morals unraveling. I've been a horrid procrastinator my whole life, but that line about anyody being able to "drink, eat, fuck," really threw me for a loop. Thank you
Solid video man! Really goes well with the video titled "The Darth Vader Comics are Depressingly Beautiful" by another content creator I highly recommend you check out in addition to this video!
Best marvel tv show ever (It’s up there)…. This show and “The batman animated series” were so both underrated but I’m glad they r getting the right recognition now
What I loved about this arc was just that throughout the episodes the symbiote suit would alter, the web lines would fade while the symbol of the spider grew larger
Spidey Comics are with me since I was 6yrs old. Thank you for being the one writer out there who understands Peter as a character so much and producing content like this!
Honestly as someone who's just over 3 months clean this video really helped me and is incredibly well made and compassionate to anyone who is going through a substance issue.
Me seeing this video in my feed: "Oh, a HiTop video about a piece of Spiderman media. I wonder what his opinion will be." *Watches first 10 seconds* "Ah."
Spectacular Spider-Man is a cartoon that takes special place in my heart. Perfectly written, animated show with hilarious characters and awesome music. The show that is not afraid of its age rating and feels free to speak to you about mature stuff unlike all them later projects about a webhead. Such a shame it was never finished, it totally was one of a kind.
This is what I think is called "the shadow" of the mind. The darkest parts of ourselves we suppress out of fear of becoming self destructive. Sometimes that shadow comes out to play, and we must fight it off, or shine a light upon it in order to come out the other side the same person.
It’s sad that the Symbiote is peters form of comfort and therapy but it just wants to use him so it convinces him everyone’s bad and the world is bad and blocks off any form of logical sense Peter can have.
I got to say your videos are something else in a good way. I really enjoy watching every single video of yours and you explain everything so beautifully.
That show was truly fantastic, and thinking about the symbiote episodes under this perspective and how the show touched important subjects in a cartoon show for kids is such an amazing thing, and having peter, as always, overcoming this dark side of him to bring hope not only to his life but for all of was watching, this is truly Spetacular!
Great video. It's pretty cool to see you talk about this brilliant series. I kind of got the addiction metaphor for the symbiote, but there are more similarities than I realized and that you spotlighted.
This is in my opinion the best Spider-Man adaptation. And the black suit saga/Venom saga are both excellent. How Peter gives himself to the darkness of the symbiote but he escapes it. Only to find out that the person who probably relates to him the most his brother, has given in to the same darkness only because Peter wasn't there for him.
The symbiote works best IMO when it isn't the cause of Peter's anger and hatred but instead when it brings his anger to the forefront of his mind. Really pushes home the idea of substance abuse how it removes filters and limiters on your mind that make you say things and do things you wouldn't if you were in the right mind. Shows why Peter's main problems and troubles caused by the suit usually occur between people he knows. Because they're his inner darkness that he fights every day to be a better person than the man who let the burglar get away. Also the Flash Thompson scene where Peter thanks him for the reality check is the reason why Flash is one of the greatest Marvel characters ever made.
I’ve watched SSM since I was a kid and have always loved it. I have recently rewatched it and still do. This video made me rethink the whole series. I always knew it was the best spiderman adaptation but this video truly opened my eyes on the depth and gravity each episode brings to the Spider-Man character as a whole. The only thing I have a slight gripe with is the drug aspect of your video because I think the show tackles that with Harry and the Globulin Green. Overall an amazing video, thank you!
Also if the mcu was smart, instead of the normal marvel intro they would create their own Spider-Man intro. The SSM intro is the best and considering Spiderman is marvels greatest character, they should do him justice.
I always noticed Harry’s struggle with Gobulin Green as a drug addiction but the Peters struggle with the symbiote didn’t cross my mind as an addiction until now
