The Death of Glider Kits in Trucking 

Keith Starr not profitable for the Chinese. We really let the industry and future drivers down. I drive an old pre emission with a Detroit 60, when they outlaw it I'm done.

We need to revolt

California code says you HAVE to buy a new engine every 8 years or so, cost to refurb a bif rig, would definatly be over $60,000

Yup! Hey, love your avatar by the way, one of my favourite characters in one of my favourite movies! Dave

That's awesome...need more small fleet operators like you. I love my '94 Pete 362 with 12.7 Detroit...never had any problems with it.

As a guy who used to help maintain a fleet of Mack mixers and dumptrucks I'll wholeheartedly agree

Wise move. Dave

usdpaulp tampering with emissions equipment is illegal...

motrhead 69 hold on. I've got a correction. It's illegal either way, there's no consequences unless you get caught.

cipmars In this world? With these people running it?

Must be a VW computer 1,000's stored port of grays harbor.

@Quantum Rey ,, long live Detroit power ,, I hope to god the EPA never bans OLD trucks cause i drive a DINOSAUR built in the 1970s my hauling truck is a 1977 peterbilt 359 custom ,it's a stretched lifted monster that has 3 drive axles + powered steer axle ,built as a military transport truck it never saw service , but was used to haul heavy equipment in the texas oil fields ,,I bought it in south dakota in 2003 ,and drove it home to iowa ,, takes a special talent to drive it cause it has a 24 speed trans with a 3 speed final ,,if i engage the front axle and hit the power dividers and lockers on all 3 rears it's true 14 wheel drive ,,even 12 inches of snow won't stop me ,i routinely plow snow for the county in the winter and use a 14ft plow which is bigger than the ones on the dump trucks it's powered by one of the largest engines ever installed in a class 8 highway truck ,12V92 twin turbo ,air-water aftercooled , 2 stroke detroit ,,setting right at 850 wheel horsepower and 2050 pound feet of torque at 1500 rpm

Quantum Rey can you restore my 99 with a C15 CAT

wildcoyote34 I actually want to see this beast

You're right! Dave

sprdaxlw9l lol concerned about the lives of the Bovines...until you drop em off at the Slaughterhouse...

Right on!! Dave

Good call

Smm hb , deregulation in 1981 was the cause of the industry going to shit, we need a total house cleaning of the government.

To be fair, it was shit before that also in many ways. We need to make it so drivers bring home more money than a walmart employee without having to work twice the hours each week.

All we need to do is stop driving all at the same time for one or two weeks. THAT SIMPLE. Eliminate most all the regs.

Smm hb exactly!!!

That's exactly right! Dave

very true, as a mechanic in the late 70's up to the late 90's , automotive gasoline fuel systems went thru a amasing transformation,, Carb engines just would not meet emissions if not kept proplerly tuned,, which most owners didn't keep up with. With all the electronic fuel management systems ,, light come on and the owner has to go to the shop, Any engine when properly adjusted will past all emmisions with flying colors !!

One of the changes that was forced by the addition of a catalytic converter in the 70's- 80's was that the zinc in the motor oil was destroying the catalytic converters, but if you take the zinc out of the oil your flat tappet cam would fail, the solution made use of roller cams much more prevalent. Then there were guys who just modified their catalytic converters with a broomstick, and this is a fairly rare thing to do anymore because the technology has come a long way, you could not go down to the Dodge dealer in 1970 and buy a 700+ hp car AND have them warrantee it and get more than 20 mpg. I have been running the same basic route for over 7 years now, the first truck I had to work with was powered by a 60 series Detroit and when loaded to 50,000 pounds gross got 6.2 mpg. The next truck was the Volvo D13 and it got 7.4 loaded the same and on the same roads - it did have injector issues that caused one DPF failure in 900k miles The current rig has 500k miles on it and the DD15 is getting 8.3 MPG and has been trouble free, although I do notice that in summer we get better fuel mileage (8.8). All 3 trucks had a strait 10 trans, not sure what rear ends the 60 series had; but, the D13 had 3.33's and the DD15 has 3.25's, and all of them governed at 65 mph

It is common practice these days to buy the older trucks and rebuild them and stay out of California. Dave

I think you're right about that! Dave

There's a good question! Who's doing the emission testing on the mexican trucks? NOBODY! Dave

when the original NAFTA was signed by bush 43 they had planned on building an 8 lane super highway from the border up to KC,MO. Mexican trucks would be exempt to US trucking laws, licensing laws, insurance laws, weight laws, safety inspections, emissions, etc.. Mexico was to build a gigantic port just south of the border to circumvent union labor, as long as the trucks stayed with in 1/2 mile of the NAFTA highway, good to go. BTW, what the hell is in KC,MO? TRAINS, lots of trains. back then who was buying lots of trains? warren buffet, the same guy lobbying Washington for the NAFTA highway. nothing and I mean nothing happens by aw shucks and by golly. every little minute thing is planned and acted upon behind the curtain.

And why did St. Helens blow up? Was it caused by increased heat by global warming? Scientist have realized they were partly wrong about sea-levels rising. They're actually dropping the ocean floors. The magma is speeding up the cracking of fault lines. Want greenhouse gases, watch what happens with Yosemite blows.

Exactly! Dave

Good point! Dave

Actually US locomotives must meet the same specs as trucks, but the railroad companies told EMD and GE the two major locomotive manufacturers they would not buy a locomotive that required the use of def. GE first came out with the evolution series engines that exceed all EPA specs for 2017 without the use of any after engine exhaust treatment then EMD figured out how to do it but designed a new 4 stroke Diesel engine of 1010 cubic inches per cylinder that also exceeds all EPA emissions requirements. Neither engine uses more fuel than their predecessors and their reliability is excellent. The latest locomotive's are rated at 4500 horsepower with a 12 cylinder engine both using free gas turbochargers, 4 of them on the EMD engine and 1 turbocharger on the GE locomotive's. I'm a retired locomotive engineer and keep track of what's happening in the locomotive field.

George Cabrera Actually freight railroads are included in emissions mandates too. They're done slightly different tho. Locomotive manufacturers have to depending on year have to meet new emissions requirements tat started back in 2012 and went in 4 levels with the most stringent being tier 4 mandated in January 2016 I think. Some new locomotives even require DEF.

Good to hear from you Moak, thanks! Dave

Yeah, the new trucks are getting better, but still not as reliable as the old ones. Dave

@@SmartTrucking Mate, have you seen the wiring looms/brake line bundles going along the chassis rails on the Euro 6 Volvo FHs? It's unreal! Blow a compressed air line and you have to pull the whole loom/bundle apart down a metre length bending your forearms somewhere out of sight at an impossible angle around the central AdBlue tank just to find it. Christ, I hope they can find a simpler way to do emissions because, at the moment, the engineering method (misnomer) seems to be to add another level of complexity to an already complicated beast of a drivetrain, then add some fandangled cut-out to prevent you tipping water into the AdBlue tank or disconnecting the EGR pipe, probably as some kind of patronising punitive measure. Guys I know of get through AdBlue exhaust sensors just about as fast as they get through engine oil changes. I swear, the pollies institute these standards faster than the R&D departments of truck manufacturers can design engines to meet them, and that is how we end up with this half-baked crap that shits itself halfway across the Nullabor. Sorry for the rant, Dave, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. All the best to you out there and keep her shiny side up. 👍 Alex

I hear a ton of stories like that, you are not alone. Dave

andrew donohue I have a stupid Mercedes with no real power no real torque no good engine brake but that bastard Huffs and puffs down the highway with 90000# every time I start it without issue making money wish I could say the same for my dd13

yes cat trucks are terrible, but i don't think they use DEF, that's their problem.

Idle time kills the DPF Aftertreatment Systems, if you are going to idle the truck make sure the cruise control on/off switch is in the off position so the ECM can regulate the engine speed during your idle time. The engine will not Regen Passively if the cruise control is in the On position as the ECM deems that as PTO mode and will not vary Engine Speed therefore will build soot deposits in the DPF and as soon as you hit the road it will do a Regen. There's a lot to the DPF Systems and unfortunately it's all faulty so good luck...

You mean DPF problems not DEF. Two separate system. Diesel exhaust fluid is used in SCR selective catalytic reduction System to reduce NOx emissions. Diesel Particulate Filters capture particulate matter pollution and go through regens which use extra fuel, and yeah DPFs are killed by idling for long periods.

You too! Thanks! Dave

She cuts out the cuss words too!

Thank you! Dave

they dont, they are expensive and have expensive problems.

There is no maybe, diesel need unrestricted and clean air intake, and unrestricted exhaust, if you try to play with either, it'll be fucked, might burn clean, but itll burn 4x as much, You will also be putting your grandkids into debt if you buy one new

Excellent point!

There is so much that went into the smog issue though. Your talking leaded gasoline. Mainly carbeurated engines and very very poor fuel economy. All of these things have been addressed with modern engines most of which would have happened with normal technology progression anyway. And I still find it very hard to believe that reducing mileage to a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the old numbers just to achieve a clean idle is actually helping anything. Diesel technology is far superior to gasoline in regards to work done per gallon of fuel emissions included. Europe has learned that years ago. their average diesel car nets 40 plus mpg yet the US looks at diesel like the black plague. The problem is the mandates are far beyond what the technology of today or even the next 5-10 years is remotely capable of. And the push for electrification is even more detrimental. You still have to produce power and I'm sorry wind turbines, solar panels, and hydro power are not plentiful enough to power it all. We already have power issues in areas of the US and they want to add millions of electric cars to the mix. They are way over reaching right now. It is very easy to topple an entire economy this way. Its all good in theory but as we are seeing it is very poorly executed.

Chris Clayton Europe fucked up on diesels. Great for fuel economy and CO2 emissions and the vehicle taxes were set up to support that, Europe had much tighter fuel economy requirements but lower other air pollution requirements compared to the US so it was easier for manufacturers to get big mileage and they were incentivised to make small efficient diesels, so everyone went and bought one. Now it’s realised the particulate and NOx pollution from diesels is worse and more impactful than first thought, and air pollution in many European cities is worse than American ones. Only people that should have bought diesels were people doing large miles a year where the fuel efficiency benefit of diesels is a positive and they’re likely on highways away from cities so the air pollution is less of a problem. Everyone else should’ve stuck to petrol, which would’ve meant more CO2 but less harmful health impacts directly.

You should look into the Euro cities that are actually banning diesel engines because even with the DEF systems they pollute to much. Fact of the matter is as long as we rely on ICEs we will have pollution problems. As a gear head I hate to say it but we need to switch to electric powered vehicles ASAP and save gasoline for classic cars.

You believe, Government and pseudo-scientist are always right.

Those jets the big shots ride around in run on jet fuel which is very similar to diesel. Makes a lot of pollution. Shut them down! Shut them down NOW! Waste and pollution is only the poor man's problem?!?!?!?

You're absolutely right Rick!

One trucking company near where I live jerked all the emission equipment and turned the screws Had 350 2 valve engines that would run with a stock 500, when it was said and done the smog Guys hit them and they had to replace and enable the pollution control devices, almost put them out of business, the sky is not the limit anymore we all breathe the same air. I have a feeling some of these pickup truck owners are going to feel the pinch before too long( the days of coaling Priuses may soon be over .)

Ron Fullerton what are you talking about? 7.7mpg is good??!!! are you nuts? we have early 90's international trucks. the worst one gets 18mph with 31,000kg on it. full mechanical diesel. no real power. but saves us thousands on fuel

Ron Fullerton I drive a 2011 Pete 386 with a deleted/tuned ISX 15 and it gets almost 8mpg average and im sure would pull that freightshaker in 1/2.

Ron Fullerton You'll get even greater yearly millage results, when you spend so much time being towed to your destination.

auto tech of 30+ years, a lot of my diagnosis involves failure management strategy, either using default values as replacements or warning light illumination when "emissions exceed 1.5X values". limp mode drastically reduces MPG. both sides, EPA and owner / operators demand reduced fuel consumption, EPA, less in = less out emissions, O/O lower operating costs per mile. i have issue with the video stating the fuel efficiency of newer models being less then older engines, this is a lie. there is NO way engineers are not using every fuel saving strategy at their disposal, for multiple reasons. "Current Federal regulations require heavy-duty trucks to achieve a 10- to 20-percent increase in fuel efficiency by 2018." and " regulators to draft new rules mandating additional improvements between 2019 and 2025--matching the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) rules for passenger cars, which also run through 2025." CAFE is a financial incentive (penalty) on top of the obvious selling points to buyers of posted MPG estimates. what i believe Smart - Trucking is saying is fuel economy drops to below older trucks only when failures occur. more systems = more possible failures. BUT it is the owners responsibility to maintain the truck in "as designed" condition. an older truck in proper form will get better MPG then a poorly running newer model, BUT the newer model will manage a failure BETTER then the older one, with less driveability impact. the other factor may be real world Vs. laboratory conditions, an example being manually shifting when a computer controlled map would provide better MPG. traffic won't allow that. finally, @ Kyle Ranger, took me all of 2 minutes to check facts, 7 to 9 MPG is pretty average! a 2015 Daimler getting 12.2 is "more then twice as fuel efficient" as current production. The company was one of three truck manufacturers awarded grants as part of the SuperTruck program. Another vehicle built by Cummins and Peterbilt achieved 9.9 mpg under similar testing conditions.

They did that last year during Operation Black and Blue. Dave

A vintage anteater! I like it! I liked those series 60's also. I ran one in my 93 379 Pete.

It sure as hell would! I hope that's right, hadn't heard that. Dave

Oh my god, never even thought about that! Dave

tell your firefighters to have the ecm reprogrammed, they are not exempt from the emissions but they are exempt to the shutdown mandate, same as diesel ambulances. they should be able to do a regen while at site while pumping water. BTW, you cannot do a regen in 15minutes.

wow,, and you know they keep up on the mantainance all the time and stil issues !! they should be exempt

Could someone please explain this "clean cycle?" Is this something that happens with newer trucks?

Jordan See some?? Atleast 15%

The epa was created to please the flower power people of the '60.s

Don't worry, they will be gone next year because a couple of lawmakers are passing bills for them to be dismantled

Ahh kids if you are a mechanic you are only working right now because of them. If your a trucker well you'll buy a glider or restore a truck.

Jordan Peterson Amen!!Please Lord!!

You're obviously just not paying attention. The EPA has been overthrown.

Possible, just keep rebuilding an older truck and keep going. They've only shut that door in California for now, so we all just go everywhere but there. Dave

Smart-Trucking.com thanks. I still don't know what I want to do. I have a few years before I have to decide. I think I'm just going to keep doing my research and see what happens.

MyTruckinLife ACE Yes.

Smart-Trucking.com , are you saying if you have an older pre-emissions truck you can't drive it in California? Even if your plates and permits are from out of state?

I don’t understand how California stays in business with that scam. One would think that California would be a mecca for trucking, but all I hear are drivers not wanting to go there.

Good input Jim, thanks! I didn't know that about Schneider but I sure believe it! Take care. Dave

Dave you never think someone actually reads what you post so for that Thank You. Prior to the latest glider craze a company in Lou Ky was starting a primarily day cab refurb program where for about $55,000 you could get a rebuilt drive train, all new wiring, paint,tires and rims ect. This will probably get popular again but its limited because its slow and mostly day cabs. Im actually rebuilding a 98 379 as we speak and ive got thousands of hours in already. Its a tough time looking forward on a large scale but im semi retired and it doesn't effect me like it use to. That being said I still worry about the young people coming behind us. Again Dave Thanks

Fitzgerald commissioned a study but the results were considered bias because they paid for the study. Dave