Greetings all, you can find all the resources used in this video and more, on my Substack here. Please consider subscribing while you're there! elywananda.substack.com/p/the-educational-sabotage-of-caribbean
I’m white and grew up with undiagnosed autism, the school system wasn’t set up for people like me, once I left high school I self educated, never went in to uni but was told I was “academically gifted” by a university professor and had an IQ test that scored in the 120s after been treated like I was thick by my schools. I now own a company employing over 20 people. I would turn away from mainstream schooling and get serious about alternatives. Schools teach us very little about what it takes to thrive in this country, I don’t think they really want people to be successful. Even if schooling wasn’t bias, it only seems to benefit a small minority even amongst white people. We need to think outside the box.
I get the exception is never the rule. We are a Caribbean family and my children seem to always be at the top of the class along with their Asian class mates. We're a married couple who invest in our childrens education. A two parent household makes a grave difference on a child's outcome including education.
There are many exceptions, just never discussed. I'm Carribbean and went to university in the late 80s graduated in '91. Paid for my daughter to go to an academically robust independent school from prep right through to 18. She's now at a Russell group university and about to commence her second year reading civil engineering. I'm a single parent but strongly advocate for marriage. I've been transparent with my daughter so I'm sure she won't fall for the same type of man I fell for.
@@Coco-uk9tvwhat was the type of man you fall for? It would be nice to educate viewers on here whilst you could. I can say they’ve been times I’ve saved myself out of long term trouble by simply remembering something someone said in passing either in person or in a comment section online
@@Coco-uk9tvwow! This made me smile! Well done mum! And yes break that generational curse. Your daughter will be ok and won’t fall those type of men!!! 🎉❤
Just look at how well Nigerian kids are doing. Nuff said. It is well in Jesus name. The government is not your friend. They are not here to help. It’s in fact the exact opposite. The sooner we truly understand this fact. The sooner we do not expect anything from them and sort ourselves out.
My little black brother is the brightest in his class in a certain school in Kent and has been routinely picked out by his teachers as “disruptive”. Our parents kept asking me to speak to him but I told them that he’s being picked on, like I was when I was a kid. I got him to essentially wipe his personality out once on school grounds and avoid unnecessary interactions with faculty and schoolmates and let his academic ability lead. Not the best thing but it’s important that he does well in school and I will not allow them to redtape him out of the system. He’s now on his final year of secondary, still at the top of his class and wants to study physics. He’s a good kid and it is important that black people learn to support other blacks esp when we’re in majority white communities. It builds morale in our community and gives our people the courage to go out and demonstrate our ability to be good outstanding citizens despite the color of our skin.
Can i ask what area in kent? I have two little girls in East Kent and ive seen this sort of subtle culture in some schools already. Seems to be a common 'labelling' culture generally, much more than i saw in London growing up
@@martinturner9720 it is exactly that and it depends on the school, teachers and region as I also have relatives that live and go to school closer to central London who’s had varied but mostly positive experiences. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not all bad and my apologizes if my comment came off as all bad. It is good overall, you just have to pay attention to the subtle things that can set your kids up for failure. The area I’m speaking of is around BR5.
Fun fact Jamaica actually had one of the best educational system's in the mid 1900s noted by the British, to say they came from that system, to being dumbed down shows the systematic oppression by the British educational system
Best educational system's? Obviously didn't work on you, the correct spelling is systems, which you should have learned at 6-7. No-one invited you to move to Europe.
Thank you for covering this forgotten part of our history.This is the very reason why many Caribbean parents took the decision to educate their children back in their home countries where the outcomes were positive; Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad etc.
Honestly, so happy every time i see one of your videos. I’m East African too and a lot of what i learnt growing up about how to navigate this country was from the Black Caribbean community.
@@bwach8 Glad to hear that family! I've realised that a lot of us from the continent probably have no idea about this sort of history. So I'm glad I can help to shed light on it.
The problem is many Caribbeans in the Uk are too dependent on government policy and funding to raise their children and not enough on the traditional family unit. Compared to Caribbeans raised in America and Canada, that do 3x better than their Uk cousins.
Could be, not my family experience or cousins experience. One thing for sure, the ones that go to America or Canada instead for sure do way better. Where you have some African Americans hating on them and calling them coconuts
@@lxvideos1125It's the opposite in my family, as the 0:04 kids that went to North America did really badly, and those of us who were in London did really well.
Hmmmmm this topic is very nuanced. I say this as a black teacher (from Trini). From years of teaching I have noticed that unfortunately children of Caribbean decent generally underperform and underachieve compared to that of West African decent. There are exceptions to the rule, but as much as I hate to say this, what I have observed from over 18 years of teaching is that generally, the black Caribbean children are more disruptive, truant, don’t do coursework or homework as constantly etc etc. A colleague of mine in NYC did a lot of youth reform in the poorer boroughs, and said the same thing. The first week, the class would be full, second week, fewer black students, third week even fewer… until the class only ever had students from Latin / Hispanic, East Asian, south asian and Muslim communities. There’s something happening in our community around the ethos of education, and it’s importance…. For some reason, the students and the parents seem to not care as much as other races.
Yes I know what you mean about certain caribbean children causing disruption in the classroom. However it was an african Rwandan ( not caribbean ) teenager Axel Rudakubana that commited those hideous monsterous atrocious horrible crimes of stabbing those 3 innocent little girls to death. It caused race riots around the country. Now that's what I call disruption. Good luck with your teaching. My nephew is the headmaster a secondary Catholic school london. All the best 👍
I think that in spite of decades of teaching in secondary education you were not able to see the bigger problem. What constituted disruptive behaviour, and what was the nature of academic underperformance? It is as dangerous to dance to a curriculum that you nor I created. Toteach about the dominant culture or host nation, while ignoring a predominately oversubscribed black presence. What did the sun newspaper after the 1976 riots, that their is a Black voice in Britain that needs to be heard? Subnormal education, middle-class teaching working-class children what an oxymoron.
I'm from that era and succeeded in spite of the diabolical 'education' I received. Were it not for my love of reading and self belief that I could learn anything I would have been a dunce. Back then children from the Caribbean who had a strong accent were placed in the lower streams or put in special ed classes; basically a dustbin to keep children occupied. Even when bright you were not expected to achieve anything. I remember being tested for my eleven plus and the teacher being audibly surprised that I could read all the words on the test lol. There was a distinct racial divide in how the teachers treated the children. I went to an average all girls comprehensive school and we were encouraged to aspire to work in retail or at best become a secretary. Not so for the white girls who were encouraged to apply to Oxford. I didn't even know what Oxford was let alone have ambition to apply there. And yet I was one of the brightest in my year group. It's sad but my parents were not politically aware. They both worked full time and simply trusted that my teachers were doing their job. Were it not for your video I wouldn't have known that the Caribbean community organised and mounted a challenge. My parents were good little assimilators and probably would not have joined such organisations had they known anyway. I suspect there were many Caribbean parents just like them who missed out on the opportunity to help with the fight. But I'm proud that there were many Caribbean parents who organised and responded as best they could. New immigrants to this country have so much to thank the Caribbean community for. Sometimes it's too much to ponder the many harms that were inflicted on us. Nice to know that many teachers wanted to do better but what is often over looked is the role of white women in retarding the aspirations and progress of black children and black women. White women get a pass because of their sex and are often infantilised in the process of blaming white patriarchy. They don't get a pass from me because they quietly commit a lot of harm.
@@gardeniainbloom812 Well done you 🙏🏿. It makes my blood boil to think of all of the children whose futures were tanked by the school system (and its collaborators). Researching for this video has definitely got me more interested in the motives and practices of teachers and the school system. I'll certainly be returning to that whole topic area.
@@Tefera-hf8fw not every Caribbean child in the uk is born in the uk. If they were born in the Caribbean and partly raised there, then they would have a Caribbean accent.
Uganda x Jamaica love it!!! Love the black unity and that you keep touching on these important topics! I’ve learned so much from just two videos! I will be watching more for sure!❤
This is a very important video, thanks for this. The British educational system is still highly discriminatory towards black pupils and despite the politically correct language they use now, the objective of failing black children remains as part of their agenda.
Bullshit... No discipline, no father figure, gang related friends, gladly wasting their time on listening to dumb music... While other minorities such as Indians and East Asians are studying hard and don't butch about discrimination... Lame asses
I think you are wrong ,Africans especially Nigerians are performing brilliantly in educational attainment but the people from a Carribean background are underperforming.
It's people living in lower socioeconomic circumstances in general. Yes there is a kind of sabotage, but there is also a cultural issue where poorer kids don't want to learn, they think it's not 'cool', and the parents don't have any expectations of them, especially if the parents never recieved higher education.
In the Caribbean you will be called black British or English if you were not born there. Besides West Indian still isn't right because the explorer though he had landed on some islands in Indian hence the name of the Caribbean W.Indies but the name isn't use much now due to the Caribbean not being anywhere near Indian.
@@rosahacketts1668 West Indian is the default demonym (noun describing a people) for people from the Caribbean region. There is no other regional demonym (some people try to say “Caribbeans” but they sound stupid). Yes it is geographically inaccurate but we have appropriated it and many of us are proud of it. I’m British-Barbadian living in Barbados. When we refer to ourselves by our nationalities we say Bajan, Jamaican, Grenadian etc. but as a region we are West Indians. “Caribbean” as an adjective is more widely used e.g. we tend to refer to Caribbean culture rather than West Indian culture (though you do hear the latter). But as a people we are West Indians.
Tell every black woman -Ms Independent I don’t need a man - have a baby for benefits - To then spend that money on wigs & weaves .. spending the child Benefit money to fly back to the Caribbean- to model & pose on poor people to give the impression she don’t need a man - to eventually get a man to then come back to uk to portray how Independent she is living off child benefits. This trend happened in the 80’s mainly where black women thought it was desirable to be a single parent. They also contributed to destroying the next generation of black people by raising a children in a fatherless environment. No working parents! The mother has no brain to set up a trust fund A woman has a responsibility & needs to accept accountability! Always blaming the man Blaming black men for there struggle Blaming white men for their struggle Blaming everybody with accepting accountability! A woman is an adult !
That’s because of your society valuing fairer skin over the others which is why skin bleaching is so common over there. It’s not solely being applied to the education system, surely.
Excellent video Ely! Its why on parents evening, both parents must attend and insist on the teachers we won't settle for at expected levels when the best level is there to be obtained! The young years are key to learn reading and writing so confidence is the norm in our young children! The sooner everyone realises this government doesn't care about you, the better as we can take back control of what's important (education, health and pensions etc)
The focus should be on what makes pupils of Chinese and Indian heritage more successful than White Working Class and Afro-Caribbean pupils? When looking at the Afro-Caribbean pupils in my opinion it comes down to two differences: FATHERS not in the home and Class.
I’ll always remember this: in English class the teacher read out a verse from a poem, “can anyone tell me what he is saying? I shot my hand up and told her what I had heard. Horrified and looking at me with a degree of contempt said “how did you know”? To this day I cannot tell you the name of the poem nor it’s author and needless to say neither write nor read poetry.
Wow, never heard about this! My parents came over from Jamaica about 70 years ago and my Dad was 18 when he arrived so went straight to work - he never went to school. I'll ask my 5 older siblings if they've heard or had any experience of this when growing up. The main thing I remember my parents drilling into my head through primary school was "You need to work 10 times harder to get the same recognition that a white person gets for just showing up". I didn't understand it at the time but guess it helped me be top of my classes back then.
Wow…as an ethnic Black American we have been taught since inception of the USA by our parents and elders that, “You have to be 10 times better than white people to be considered half as good.” That's why when we excel its literally history making (ground breaking) not because we tried its oftentimes was out of survival of legal systemic/institutional oppression. They are afraid and insecure still even with a 400-500 year head start. Its an unspoken directive in our families and culture but we look at each other and know what’s at stake without words when we are in the world. Thanks for sharing your story!
I grew up in the 90’s & witnessed this problem first hand. My primary school attempted to place me in such classes even though I was excelling beyond my years. This plan was orchestrated way before immigrants came to this country. The Caribbeans who are putting in the necessary effort are constantly outnumbered by ones that have completely given up. What more can we do when there is nothing but judgments for us.
When is “before immigrants came to this country”. According to the National archive, black people have been in Britain for 800 years. Just get exhausted. The 90s was not first time immigrant came to Britain, the number certainly have increased gradually throughout the years, as it will certainly be in 2050 and beyond
@@eliseoellis3863 This isn’t about when the first immigrants landed in Britain. I’m fully aware that Britain (particularly England) wouldn’t even exist without that immigration. When you ask? Well that would obviously be within a time period that people are alive to challenge things. Nobody is coming from 800 years ago to save us. This is about highlighting the strategies that the government & policy makers have implemented against Caribbean people, specifically in the education system. Why are you exhausted?
@@afteryoucast Sorry I dont entirely disagree with what you said, however the emigration issue in this country is way too often addressed as since the 60s when obviously before the 60s and thats where my exhaustion arose from.In fact, its slightly embarrassing for me to say this in such an important topic that you brought up as "The Educational Sabotage of the Caribbean in the country" but I express the exhaustion because like I said it often referenced as if life of black people in Britain began in 64 in the Wind rush day of arrival.
By the way, we are all Africans, no matter which part of the world we are born. Chinese people never change their race even living in the Caribbean for decades.
I think the veil of this still exists. My son recently got his exam results GCSEs. In maths they moved him from top set to the one below thus reducing his grade ability. He told me he passed all his mocks and tests. So he mainly got As and Bs and the one C was from the class he was downgraded in whose max grade was a C. I also think the gov and schools partake in social engineering. Because gov always complains about more pupils doing well from working class families. I just saw a bbc post where a working class kids were saying gcse ate not everything and instead of pursuing their dreams their now pursuing bricklaying. All we can do encourage excellence and counter act negativity.
My grandparents came from Jamaica to the UK. And I have realised a few things the government is not to blame. The individual, the parents and the community are. From a young age probably around 10 I realised that the same government which enslaved my ancestors could not be trusted and that free handouts were not really free. I realised that many people from the community had not learned this lesson. I have worked hard a tried to excel all my life, I could give plenty of excuses as my upbringing was not the best but I plodded on. I am now a doctor and I lament the lack of Caribbeans in this role. That said I few things I recall are the parents who taught their kids nothing but expected them to know everything/ learn it all from school, the kids which came from Jamaica with excellent work ethic and it then dissipate when they got here and become part of uk black culture and finally the closure of Saturday schools because the few beneficiaries ran out of money or the government stopped funding them. So in summary the result is a lack of investment from multiple sources but the government is not to blame imo. Good video!
My siblings and i can relate to this. As i child that grew up in the 80's my parents sent us to catholic schools which were predominantly white. It wasn't just being held back by racist teachers, the racism and hatred was also followed by some of the kids at the schools which affected our education and, made school life an unpleasant experience.
Solid vid. I didn't know about that scandal. Of course, I'm glad and proud that us Afro-Caribbeans organised and did something about it. P.S. I didn't know you are married to a Jamaican and have half Jamaican children.
@@hahaha70263 Yeah you should be proud. I often imagine what it must've been like especially for the children back in the day, and it angers me how much pressure they were under. And yeah, I'm grafted-in to the Jamaican diaspora! It was bound to happen, given my upbringing! 🇺🇬🇯🇲
Jamaica and Africa have great educational systems for many. The UK can do better for its Caribbean pupils. I wonder how I would’ve done in Ashford, Kent, if I didn’t move to the states (did well in the states).
Jamaica has jack! Why? There is no free education over there - this is why many Jamaicans struggle with comprehension. I blame the government and its people - the people need to make demands.
My best mate arrived from Papua New Guinea in the mid 90s. The family were put back a school year because English wasn't the 1st language. They all excelled academically and live comfy lives with good jobs. I'm not here to argue and say, your wrong. I know your not, I'm just glad some changes have been implemented. If not, I'd have never have met my best mate.
@elywananda I've seen some pics n heard loads of stories. Amazing place with exceptional scenary. Only thing that puts me off visiting is the snakes n sharks 🤣 It would be an amazing experience
As a first generation West Indian child who did very well in the British education system we produced some of the best performing students largely because of the types of families we had then at the same time the system discriminated openly against our people in very obvious ways. However females of my generation who took the single mother route which was a very voluntary decision, and don't let them tell you otherwise because they bought into the welfare state, unlike their married parents made things even worse for their children. So their children got disadvantaged in two ways. Dr Bernard Coard's seminal book How the British Education System Made West Indian Children Educationally Subnormal details what I experienced of us producing the best students and how the racist practices of the system overtime destroyed the educational performance of West Indian children for the majority of them..Also the feminisation of primary and secondary school and the departure of men as teachers was a devastating blow for West Indian boys. Men got removed from home and school which crippled far too many young boys.
@@charlesmoyo9005 Some big important points here. I do think that the prevalence of lone parent households is a criticism impediment to any group., which is why I often bring it up.
@@elywananda It may relate to any group but disproportionately Caribbean people. When I went to primary school I could tell you every married parent of my friends. By the time I left secondary school marriage among females of Caribbean descent was almost dead and single parenthood was the norm. There is an excellent book chapter by one of my close brothers Dr Perry Stanislas called the Cultural Politics of African Caribbean and West African Families in Britain who details this forensically and he like me came from Hackney and talks from close and real experience. Many local brothers who went into teaching because they had great teachers and wanted to teach in their old schools ran from that occupation because the new generation of Caribbean descent mostly came from single parent families and very little learning took place in those schools because the family culture of the West Indian immigrant with tough disciplined parents was dead with the new types of family and with men leaving teaching..Two sides of the educational equation. First, the family and what takes place there. Secondly, the quality of teaching and philosophy of teaching in schools.
I'm east african too and im about to go to UON studying Economics. I come from a deprived area and its sad to see some of my caribbean friend's fall into bad habits bc they were genuinely good people and had the opportunity to build a good future for themselves unluckily their environment shaped them to be not so good
I've been told schools prematurely place black students in these environments and give them these labels. I'm Jamaican raised in nyc and was placed in special ed as a child. Also was held back. Now I'm an engineer. Maybe I grew out of it or maybe incorrectly labeled. My teachers always told my parents I wasn't doing work and was too distracted but had potential 🤷🏾♀️ also nyc public schools used to segregate students by grades. So smart 3rd graders would be together and not so smart 3rd graders in another class. After special ed they put me in the latter 😂 tbh I just went to bad city schools because once I got to suburbs teachers said I was behind 😭
@@sonderexpeditions Thanks for sharing sis. I'm glad you were able to transcend that experience. And that's the problem, so many bright youngsters have their futures mashed up due to this sort of thing. Also, in my childhood I had no idea there were Caribbean people in the US. I assumed they were all either in the Caribbean or the UK!
@@elywanandaHow come you didn't know that Ely. Of course Carribeans migrated back in the 50s onwards to either the UK, mostly, or to a lesser extent the US or Canada. Some who came to the UK initially, then ended up in America or Canada, then went onto live or die back in the Carribbean.
@@elywananda statistically over 80% of black people in nyc are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from firstly Caribbean, then latino, then African. Africans are most recent black immigrants since about 20 years compared to Jamaicans who came in the 1950s.
The idea of the authorities was to disadvantage the immigrant communities by under-educating them. so African and caribbean chilkdren have a substandard education that disadvantages their ability to compete for better employment and better educational opportunities in universities. This then creates parents, in particular mothers that are undereducated and economically under resourced. So with disadvantage it is passed on to the next generations and the educational, social and commercial, economic inequalities will persist. If the mother and father in the household has a a fifth grade (key stage 2) education, their children are unlikely to reach university level achievement, unless there is an early intervention like homne tutoring, supplementary schools (saturday schooling), With Caribbean communities there is a class division, the aspirational more educated families, their children have better opportunities to break this cycle. Many families that are aspirational have children trapped in inner city estates with negative peer pressure influences that encourage educational disaffection and anti-authority behaviour in learning environments. resulting again in under-education.
Parents play the biggest part in their children's education. A child should never go to formal schooling not knowing certain basic things. And a lot of basic things can be taught via play and music at home. Parents have to be engaged throughout their children's education. My mother has been a teacher for over 40 years and my sister is now a teacher. I have been around teachers my whole life. Unfortunately some parents have little to no interest in their children's education. That is the major problem as I see it.
@@nicky611 Definitely. My parents did great, but they had very little involvement in my schooling, besides attending parents evenings (and to be fair, a lot of my peers' parents didn't even do that).
I went to a school that was majority black, with second largest majority being Indian/Asian. I was one of the only white (and half Chinese) kids in the school. I was the top of my class and year but let me tell you, the top set of my year and every year was 90% black and Caribbean boys. Most of the white boys in the entire school were actually the lowest set (set 4). So just in my experience and my particular school my black peers luckily got the support and belief they needed. This was back 2000’s in newham east London, so I know it’s a very particular case. But I’m now very appreciative of the school I went to for never discriminating people. The most intelligent people in the class were Caribbean and African guys, and so many of them now are hugely successful as adults (some are also in prison but… that’s down to the area, not the school, and I know just as many boys from every other ethnicity who ended up in trouble too)
An excellent informative video post. I am in my 60s. I was deemed as average at school . We were encouraged to do a lot of sports but not a lot else. However our next generations have done much better. Both my nephews have degrees, one is the headmaster of a catholic secondary school in London. The other is an electrician who’s just got married. My grandson has a degree and will start studying as a lawyer this September. My sisters granddaughter has a degree and was a sprinter for team GB is the Paris 2024. Olympics . My wife also has a degree. Our family are from Saint Vincent & the grenadines / Saint Lucia and Guyana.
I have know about this for a long while even if they don't put you in a sub school they will make sure to put you in the bottom sets for everything then pull a shocked face when you act up or just don't turn up I was very lucky that I had a mum who was very well educated otherwise I would have joined the school to prison pipeline like a lot of people I knew did
@@MrKingkz Exactly! I feel quite sad because at secondary school, I distinctly remember how most of my Caribbean peers, boys in particular, were in the lower tiers in maths and science.
@@elywanandanot even in Lower tiers, they have our kids doing Disney courses like "leisure and tourism GNVQ", hardly any of the black children I was at college with were doing A-levels.
@@elywanandaEly this is true back in the day ie 60s and 70s and even early 80'. However, there are few excuses now as improvements in education have been made at a national level. I'm convinced Carribbean culture has a role in this, though it may not be the only factor.
Thank you so much for sharing this information. I didn’t know about it. Education is so important. When we look at some of the issues facing our communities, especially our young black men. It isn’t hard to believe or see why generational trauma has such a huge impact on millennials and the youth coming up today. 😢
Africans that come to this country has shown this is not an excuse any black person should use today. It’s simple, work hard, work smart and delay gratification is important in your journey.
You're missing the point of the video. The whole point is those people haven't been put through that phase of the British educational system, something that causes ongoing intergenerational harm.
@@dogblessamerica Thank you. Also, I'm not sure where this idea that Africans are smashing it in education. While Africans generally outperforms Caribbean children, they are still near the bottom of attainment "charts", especially when looking at the proportion of pupils who gain the highest grades.
@@elywananda they are smashing black Caribbean, and before you think trolling or just saying bad things about blacks from the Caribbean I'm a born and bread Jamaican. The end of the day, the Caribbean culture doesn't put education at the very forefront of its priority culturally, Chinese, Indians and others that are at the top and earn the most money in Britain put education and family values at the very top culture wise.
@nickbarrettfitness yes your right you should work hard. However Axel Rudakubana parents came Rwanda Africa ( not the caribbean ) He ended up committing a monstrous terrifying hideous crime that caused race riots. He murdered 3 innocent little girls . He changed this county forever. Caribbean and Africans are now getting verbally and physically attacked on the street because of what that savage demonic evil creature done.
@@elywananda At (A levels average score )the difference between black Africans and white British is 4 points: white British score B and black Africans C+ so the difference isn’t as large as you make it out to be. There is more difference between white British and white Irish than white British and black African.
Excellent and succinct video.This subject is covered by the director of 12 years a slave Steve McQueen in at least one of his films shown on BBC a few years back.Thank you for making this video.
Yea indeed, the series is called “Small Axe” and the episode is no. 5 entitled “Education”. The episodes are linked insofar as they cover the history of the Caribbean diaspora in the UK, but they are standalone - you don’t need to watch them in order and can go straight to the Education episode if you want. If you can’t find it on BBC iPlayer I think it’s on Prime Video and Apple TV depending on where you live Big up Ely for the content
Yeah the Education episode was my favourite of that Small Axe series. It's a shame it's not available on iPlayer at the moment but I'm sure it can be tracked-down somewhere ✊🏿
Are you able to comment/explain why despite the changes that have been made since then to the educational system, black Caribbean children are still underperforming in terms of educational attainment especially in secondary school?
Notice the bit about, 'defective and epileptic children' on the text Ely shows at one point? I'm epileptic and the amount of silliness talked about that was ludicrous back in the day. Fortunately, my teachers were more informed than most and my late mother was a nurse but even so, I faced some very strange attitudes regarding this. I went to a Catholic School in Hackney and because we had a relatively large number of black kids we didn't tend to face silly stuff about inferior groups. Even then, education was still slanted very much towards a particular view of history. Some of the other schools nearby more or less gave up on working-class black and white kids and few of them did well at school. Our school was regarded as one where parents were desperate to place kids because it had outstanding results and I can recall a particularly stupid moment when aged around 17 a couple of us went to universities for interviews and this was in the very late 80s. I got a comment about how I might find the 'social structure difficult to adapt' (I'm from a white working-class Irish family), my friend was a black kid whose father was from Nigeria originally. He got similar comments. Fortunately, our teachers at school didn't believe this. However, plenty of other teachers did sadly.
Excellent work. It concerns me that after giving such important information. We result to celebrating our personal achievement and our 'correct choices'. Then go onto vilifying Black fathers, single mothers. Children who dont want to listen and learn. We need to stop it! Listen to what is been, little has changed our children are still suffering. We need to do something collectively about this. Simple.
@elywananda I didn't see that one will have to look it up. My mum told me yesterday that when she came to England at the age of ten from Jamaica and started school that what they were teaching she had already learnt and that they kept her and other black kid's behind so that the rest of the class could catch up. Also, a couple of years ago, we had a black history month seminar on teams where i work. we had quite a few high-profile people on it. It was about two hours long. One of the guests was Sean Wallace from the chase he said that when the careers people came to his school and asked him what he wanted to be, he said I want to be a lawyer and he was told not you wallace your betting off sticking to factory work. I can remember teachers being very discouraging to black kids I was a good reader and loved books teachers told my mum when I was about 8 that I was choosing books that were too advanced my mum said she can obviously read them so let her get on with it.
@@cheeks6738 Absolutely sickening what was done, and still is being done to an extent, to children. I can't think of anything worse than damaging children's future. These people must've had such a deep seated prejudice and assumptions about people from the Caribbean. To an extent it still happens. Witness people saying "it's their culture, they don't value education."
Thanks for the very informative video. We as parents were aware of this, which is why we opted to home-school 4 of our 5 boys. Our fourth son is severely autistic, so he had to go to a special school. Our eldest went on to do his A levels and has since graduated from a Russell Group university. Our second son is in his final year at a Tier 1 university. We know that we couldn't trust the education system, so we did something about it, though at a personal cost to both of us. We went from a two-income family to a single-income overnight.My wife was a recruitment consultant and could have been a director now if she had continued in her career, but we have no regrets.
Half ie 50% of students in Barbados fail the Common Entrance exam. An English and Mathematics exam. Half! That has nothing to do with racism or discrimination. It has to do with parents, their households, the environment in which the child is raised and how much value is placed on education and raising a curious, well rounded child. The past is the past and can not be changed. It is not an excuse for the current ill disciplined, disinterested, disrespectful and sometimes downright dangerous behaviour exhibited by some children both in the Caribbean and abroad. Parents need to take responsibility for their children.
LOL it has to do with elitism baked into our Bajan education system where the middle class take up all the resources by tutoring their kids to pass the common entrance exam and hogging the elite school places (QC, HC etc.). Don’t worry Mia is reforming all that just now
How can you trust the slave master to educate your children? Malcolm X. When I read this in high school, I made it my business to learn mich so that I can be a huge resource to my children and the children in my family.
Wisdom! Constantly complaining and expecting people that see you has inferior to treat you better. Take matters to God almighty and take control. Rely on no man or government
@Ely Wananda Akala talked about this and his experience. Please consider bringing him on to talk about his experience. Despite being intelligent, his English teacher designated him in this group.
@@doreenchindezwa6319 Yes I've read his book and his experience shows just how pervasive this stuff was. Same with a documentary on Blacka Dread. His son was being labelled and stigmatised, then they sent him to Jamaica and he "suddenly" became a high performing student.
Reflecting on this more I can remember parents been accused ( yes thats right accused) of been "over ambitious" for their children and having " middle class values" ??? Hard to believe but that was the social climate of the day. Speaking to a Jamaican teacher as recent as in the early 2000's ( recruited directly from Ja) she told me she was shocked that the school she was allocated to was writing children off based on .......Her success with these " write offs" brought other issues to the fore which she was not prepared for. Read between the lines.
@@anngore3842 Yeah, I have a link to a government report in the pinned comments. And that report makes statements like that. What's interesting is that the authors are anti-racist in their intentions. But there are lots of statements that are paternalistic and condescending towards West Indian people. It gives an insight into the climate of the day as you put it.
Thanks. We were educated at home, home was like a black history museum, then I migrated to Antigua 1994, aged 13. And the Education there is way more thorough than here. CXC they call it, in contrast to GCSES. New sub. Respect 👊🏿🖤
I had a similar conversation with my father recently. When i was at school 20+ years ago in the mid 90's,i was in a battle with a majority of the teachers. I was a studious kid who was above the average standard, but for some reason i was stereotyped as a trouble maker even though i was very quiet and unassuming, never got suspended ever. I was 1 of about 4 afro carribean children out of 1100 students and looking back some of the teachers were clearly racist. Some of them used to look at me with utter disdain, and i remember thinking what have done to them? I never built any connection or raporrt with any of my teachers apart from 1 young female asian teacher who left after the first year. But the school i attended had a reputation for being racist. It was a Catholic school full of children from Irish descent. If I was slightly disruptive it would have been so easy for the school to place me in the bottom groups for everything where the highest grade achievable was a C or D, and my employment prospects were over before I started
With the GCSE 8 Attainment chart at 0:05 why is there such a difference between Black African and Black Carribean? Are Black Africans not as affected? As from the chart, they are outperforming White British as well as Black Carribean children!
Because they prioritise education and invest in their child's education. When ever my children have attended tutoring groups outside of school we are usually the only Caribbean family there.
The problem most Caribbean parents faced then is they both had to work. My mum was a nurse, and dad prior to coming to the UK was a civil engineer in Jamaica. He had to take whatever job he could find - ended up working on a building site as a crane driver. He eventually went back to night school and became an accountant for British Rail. When I was first enrolled into a primary school at age 9 going on 10. They gave me a Janet and John book to read to prove I actually understood English (even though they were given all my school reports from Jamaica included was my 11+ certuficate. This was really surprising to me as I was reading books like "Pip and the convict" aka "Great Expectations" in Jamaica (in Jamaica then, if you were good enough you could take 11+ earlier) My Dad basically told me to just go with the flow. And therein lies the dilemma for Caribbean parents at that time (the 1960s), Not knowing the lie of the land or wanting to make waves......
@@jamtalawah2231 Man, that angers me to no end. I keep thinking of my primary school mates in Hackney in the 80s and how they (or their parents) must've been impacted by these dynamics.
@@jamtalawah2231 that is crazy! I am so sorry you had such a horrible experience. This is quite random but I want to become a secondary teacher as a young black woman. How can I support Caribbean students to succeed in your opinion?
@@matthewleitch1 Good question. I haven't looked closely at that, but I presume they must've done some reassessments and found that children were much more "able" than had previously been determined.
@@elywananda It would be interesting to know if they used the same approach and criteria as those who originally made the ESN identification, or perhaps used a different approach. Maybe this sheds light on why people originally mistakenly thought there was an ESN problem.
@@matthewleitch1 I'll try and have a look into that and see what I can find. As it was so long ago, a lot of the info is probably hidden away in obscure PhD theses and official papers.
@@elywananda One possibility is that they might have based the initial assessments on test results, thinking these indicated potential when for some black students they were more influenced by lack of motivation or perhaps poor relationships with teachers. Your video on the gender pay gap highlights another interesting point, which is that whatever the ESN issue was may have affected males more than females, or done so in such a way as to affect later earnings more.
That is f cking scandalous. What a great video. I look at my friends now and think what would have happened had they endured that education system. Given they work in banking, economics, parliament (3 masters in different fields and a doctorate) and a lawyer
I’m a 58 year old man born and bred in this country to Caribbean parents, I excelled in sports as a youngster at an elite level but my single mother banned my sisters and I from participating in sports to pursue education. I literally had to lie and hide participation in national level sporting events in my early teens so as not to be castigated by my mother. My sisters and I were sent to private schools on the back of my mother working hard and saving money. The result being some extreme racist experiences and ultimately leading to a first degree and two masters degrees. In the 1980’s I remember gaining three ‘A levels in one year when they were supposed to be taken over a two year period and being refused a grant to study at University. The subsequent meeting my mother and I along with my grandfather had with the head of the Leicestershire Education Authority was particularly memorable, he literally told me “people like me don’t go to University” My Grandfather told him we didn’t need his approval to send me to University because we were economically independent. To cut a very racist story short I graduated and eventually left this country and decided to bring my children up in Spain where my children have become extremely successful because they haven’t had to deal with the blatant racism I have dealt with in the UK my eldest daughter has graduated from a double Masters course in International Sports Law and works for FIFA, my second daughter is a very famous musician, my third daughter is working and plans to join the British police force shortly and my son at 20 is already a millionaire (I won’t reveal what he does because I would be revealing his identity he is well known) so if anyone wants to contest the racist label the Education system has in the UK I’m am living proof of how it can shape a persons life or a group of peoples lives if they don’t have the fortitude and support needed to combat it.
I definitely was victim to this, only black child in class, put in all the bottom groups, and was bored waiting for other children to be able to read simple words on a card etc, got in trouble for copying a story out of a book, although it was out of my head! years later in music college, I was about to have my work referred, as I was again accused of copying from a book, this time I was able to defend myself and remind the lecturer that he spoke those words and I quoted him, he quickly poured praise on me and said no one in my class uses terms like, the aforementioned etc and how great and concise my English language is! They have a very low expectation of us!
If your child and is not meeting their grades it’s not because of some policies from years ago. Black people need to stop looking for something to blame their inadequacies on and actually try.
its a skill issue too and not actually using tutoring service outside of the classroom like kumon etc. Also,educational attainment don't matter if you got A* in business studies, drama, English literature, PE etc. If a student gets top marks in substances subjects like maths , sciences, economics or computer science thats what matters as that translates to be able to do a good degree. The figures should look at what university and what subjects are black people studying after school. Are they doing voctional which is stupid or going to university also, even if you get top marks gcse and alevels but end up doing something silly afterwards you have wasted your potential. the guy who got less but ended up getting a good degree is more important than. It's not own British completely its a culture thing especially with Caribbeans .
I lived in the caribbean as a child for one year. When I returned to the UK I was ahead of all the kids in my year. After a while I slowly regressed to being just like all the other kids. If you are not doing well in school in the caribbean you are called dunce by other children but the opposite is true in the UK.
It's Afro-Caribbean. I'm of Caribbean heritage too and my brother is a teacher who went to university some 24 years ago which was not really heard of. Sadly, many Caribbean parents never never encouraged their kids to excel in education. Even if the schools failed them due to labels parents could have encouraged at home but they didn't. I have two degrees one of which is a masters.
@@rosahacketts1668 Yeah, I think the parental approach is key. Someone else here mentioned that their parents told them to just go along with the flow when they were put into a grade much lower than they should've been. I think a lot of parents who arrived having had a colonial education back home were (and still are) far too trusting of the British system as a whole.
@@elywanandaPrecisely. Many Carribeans who came here in the 50/60s thought as long as you went to school in the UK, which was free throughout 4-18 (and beyond at that time), that you would learn and come out qualified, numerate and literate. So they enrolled their kids into the system and never checked back on what was going on until word spread that Caribbean kids were being structurally held back. Then Saturday schools were formed but for many it was too late.
now you are talking full since! they were doing this all the time! we are in a on going war, 357 24 hrs a day! my farther was a stone mason came from the Windrush era and from Jamaican, and came to teach others trade, my father's ancestors were Moors, who ruled Europe for 1900 yrs my farther, I have never seen any one, up to today build and plaster better, then my farther, and my mother also in her trade, awesome I walk in their shadow! miss them both, seeing like you said, organizing them self, partner hand to raise money to give , to each other. we should never throw away what works! Awesome info video Brother! 👏👏👏
Ely! This came up on my RU-vid feed. Have wondered about you from time to time over the years. Always knew that Headway was just the beginning for you.
My primary school in the UK put all melaninated people in the bottom class automatically. There was no reasoning with the schools It was automatic. Now when I look back at it, it was like an apartheid system. Thankfully, I learnt so much more out of school and My grammar improved massively but the people who were in the classes above me still have bad grammar! I see it whenever I read one of their posts on social media 😂
I despair at the grammar (and spelling, syntax, etc) I see online!! I think the fact that we mostly write on devices is a big part of it. My phone auto-text is constantly trying to make me use apostrophes incorrectly, for example!
While there is discrimination, it does not explain being at the bottom ranks. Today in the UK you can get quite far before needing to worry about glass ceilings. The barriers have long ago moved. Caribbean’s simply do not have a culture which values being “Nerd” at all, so many caribbean parents do not even motivate their own kids. One sentance a day. If you don’t have an idea of what your kids are motivated by academically, then you as a parent have not motivated your kids academically motivation is 80% to the win. Do not rely on the discriminating school to motivate you kids!
Good points. I've come across this. My mum was told by her sisters, that there must be something wrong with me as I always had my head in a book. I'm in my 50s now and every room in my house, the loft and garage are filled with books. No TV for over 10 years now. My daughter is a thriving and proud nerd. Edit, I know she won't find a black man who's anywhere near her equivalent, who's into black women anyway, so I tell her to date out.
@@MarianneSunshineThere are some great Carribbean parents, but not enough and I do think we have to address some dysfunctional aspects of the culture which have become normalised.
@@Coco-uk9tv Which dysfunctional aspects are those? There are 27 islands in the Caribbean with multiple races, languages and sub-cultures, what are the specific issues which hinder Caribbean parents that cannot be found in other cultures and are not aspects of basic human dysfunction?
@@Coco-uk9tv WOW!! So you actively teach your daughter to stereotype her own people, strange because my Black sons are both successful and proudly nerdy and she would instantly reject them.
This video is poignant. However growing up in the late 70's - 80's attending a school where me and my siblings were the only blacks offered both its challenges and also opportunities. I would love to see a part on this topic and with a panel. Great podcast.
I agree that this system is a fuckry but I would say it starts with parenting and values in the home. The only reason that my sister & I are well educated and value education is because that was the standard in our home. For many in inner city communities those values are non-existent in the home, if they don't exist at home they cannot be encouraged in a school system that was designed for the haves and have nots. The school system is a two tier system one for the elite & then the other for the rest of the "rif raf". It was my mother who taught me to read, it was my mother who was challenging teachers low expectations in schools, it was my mother paying for private tuition from the age of 5. It was my mother setting a very high standard from the earliest age through intention, habits, rituals etc. It wasn't perfect by any means due to nuances in culture and the harsh expectations of some African parents. But it laid the foundations & meant by an early age there was always an inner expectation that I had for myself and what I wanted & aspire to for my future.
@@Xxx-y9d The thing I'm seeing is that these folks from the Caribbean held education in very high regard. But there were several dynamics that hindered their children's outcomes.
@@elywananda it's also class, some Carribeans are higher class & you can spot their kids a mile away even in troubled inner city areas. Although even then that phenomenon of low class attitudes in our community becoming the mainstream and face of the community is still a big issue. So there were boys from stable backgrounds aspiring to be gyalis and shot & trap even though they weren't poor like that & the parents were working & professional. But yes the original migrants from the Carribean had high expectations of this country, little did they know what they were getting into.
@@Xxx-y9d Yeah there's certainly a class element. Also, I think there's an element of parents not accepting what was happening to the children. This is a theme in films and documentaries from the 70s and 80s, the parents that migrated here as adults weren't facing the same intensity of hostility as their children faced.
Ely thats historic. We still do terribly now why? Because of family issues not structural racism anymore. You cant keep blaming the government for *everything*
